As Time Goes By

[watty]

mary, *pouts* you missed my fb , so this time, I'm calling dibs!

(welcome to the world of watson and Car thread hijacking, you've probably been away from the board for a while, so you're not familiar, but it's considered an *honor* to have either of us calling dibs on your fic you know )

[AntigoneUnbound]

Oh my goddess, Watson--I'm so sorry! I scrolled back through and somehow I had totally overlooked it! Color me tres mortified...

I certainly resonate with your thoughts on depression. I'm a therapist, so heaven knows I see a lot of it and let's just say I'm next exactly immune to it myself.

I'll be really curious to see what you think of this update, esp. since you alluded to it very well in your feedback which, as I mentioned, I am mortified to have overlooked. And yes, Faith has been patient. For me, that's all about her investment in this experience (the nature of which will become clearer shortly).

OK, and forgive the lack of familiarity, but what exactly does it mean to call dibs? I just left some feedback for Carleen, and I want to be as hip as I possibly can.

Mary

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-



I should have twigged to Willow's falling asleep heavily. A very sneaky way to break down someone who, like Willow, has an active mind and needs REM sleep, the middle and lighter stages of sleep. Sleep deprived people are easy to manipulate (how do you think those evil professors at the graduate level keep those students cowed into accepting those assignments?). Manipulation is especially effective at the level of an old worry that already existed. We know that Willow knows Tara loves her, but there in the shadows of her mind will always be the awkward girl amazed that anyone could love her so much and wondering if it could be true. Who knows what very human worries broke the others?

Now the Scoobies know the path their enemy takes, but the cost was almost too scary to think about. I'm waiting with eager anticipation to see how they confront this eerily unnerving menace.

Which might be easier than the finally open secret that Faith is 'in love' with Buffy. Talk about an unknown and frightening path for someone who doesn't need anybody. I wonder if Faith has admitted it to herself? And if she could break down and say the words, and if Buffy could truly hear them I can see the Slayers getting along like a house on fire-alarms, smoke, screaming, chaos etc.

But all of that pales in comparison to the hinted at horror of all horrors. Oh please Mary, not the dreaded storm of hamsters! Save us from the squeaky rain!


Thank you for this,

Jixer

PS- I have no idea what dibs means in this context either.

[GayNow]

OK, and forgive the lack of familiarity, but what exactly does it mean to call dibs?

Let me answer this question for the lovely watson since she is sleeping (it's 2:30 in the morning where she is).

Calling "dibs" is claiming space. Getting first reply for an update has become a coveted thing. So, watson called "dibs" on your story and I beat her to the punch on "Catching Sunflowers in Bloom."

When we hijack threads, we get a little crazy and silly...and sometimes pull others into our madness...but it's always fun.

To remain somewhat on topic...let me say that I'm currently reading GS&A and loving it. I was going to start this one when you came back and started updating, but watson said I have to read GS&A first...so I'm reading that. Once I get completely caught up, I will more than likely leave some sort of feedback novella for you.

Carleen

[Marilda]

AH! I knew it! I so totally knew it!

Man that was some good angst! I love me some angst!

Especially when it's well-written!

Okay, I'll stop screaming now.

That was an awesome update, like really truly awesome.

And how scary is this big bad? I mean it plays on your fears and insecurities and makes them appear to come true? *shudder*

I was reading the update and I knew what was going to happen--you built up the tension beautifully--but I still found myself screaming at the screen going all "oh my god, she really is going to....oh my!"

Anyway, you rule and this fic rules.

More soon?

[Washi]

SCORE!! I mean, um, SCORE! I knew it! I knew all of Willow's paranoia wasn't a good sign. Mary, that was my theory, btw.
Her behaviour totally changed in a few days, and everyone thought it had to do with Faith, but it wasn't just that, and did I say I knew it?
Now, what is causing this? Cause I'm thinking a couple of people are gonna have fun destroying it.
Thank god Faith was there. That should make them trust her more. And, I'll always up for some Fuffy (or is it Faithy? or Baith?) lovin'. You built this up wonderfully, totally had my angst-loving self bouncing up and down.
Great great stuff!

[Katez0r]

Oh, Jesus.

I'm not sure I've got the words for this one.

*checks mental dictionary*

Yeah, no. I don't. So "Oh, Jesus" is going to have to suffice, at least until I can pick up the pieces of my brain, which your writing has EXPLODED.

Um, exploded in a good way.

[Willow~Rosenberg]

Hi. I don't think that I've posted feedback for this story, so I feel that I must stop and seriously applaud the creative genious that is you. I read Gods Served and Abandoned and absolutely love that story. It is on my favorites list. I have read it through twice now, and loved it just as much the second time.

I love the way you write. You know the characters so well, much better than anyone that was actually hired to write for the show or even Joss himself. The way that you have crafted the Dawn/Buffy behavior is so much more believable than the whiny character they made Dawn. They always aluded to her intelligene, but here you show it.

I also love how you have brought Kyra into the story. She fits so well with Willow and Tara and yet I am still pondering the reason for her appearance.

Loved the refernce to the Buffy/Faith body swap in the previous update. I hadn't considered that, but that would be so Faith-like. lol

I had a theory (We can't use that sentence ever again without the connotation of OMWF, can we? lol) that Willow was going to be the next one trying to commit suicide. As soon as you described Anya's friend, who had done all of that good work and then just killed himself, I had a theory that Willow would be the next one "attacked." Even with the theory I had, it was still so tense to read. It must have been utterly horrifying for Tara to see Willow take a dive over the railing and almost succeed. so glad that Faith was there. Tara didn't need the visual of Willow trying to kill herself to add to the many other absolutely horrible memories that she had from her past.

Also, the last revelation that Faith was in love with Buffy was quite interesting. I wonder how Dawn is going to react to that as I'm wondering if Dawn is going to be crushing on Faith since she is back on the level of supreme coolness. It could possibly set up a situation where Dawn could easily be "attacked." Then again, that could also be my overactive imagination.

And I think that I've just babbled myself into the longest post that I have ever made on this board, so I'll end this post here. Great update.

[miss calendar]

Hi Mary,

I was away from the kitten boards for a long time (real life issues) and missed this story when you started posting it. What a delight to discover it now! I’ve spent the whole of this evening reading it. I’m now up to date and, as ever, filled with admiration for your wonderful writing. Actually I have to admit that while I was reading I was so caught up in the story that I didn’t even notice how beautifully it was written. Now I’ve started to reflect on the story so far, I find myself appreciating once again your excellent characterisation and dialogue, your unique blend of humour and drama. So many witty lines that made me laugh out loud but what I especially like is the way so much of the humour is character based, made that more amusing because of what we know of their histories and relationships. And I love the fact that your fic evokes a wide range of emotions in me and leaves me with a lot of questions.

So one that obviously springs to mind is why would anyone create such an unspecific protection spell? ‘Give form to that which delivers all who call upon it’….And deliver them from what? If demons call upon ‘it’ will they be protected too? It seems that Kyra is the embodiment of this unnamed force for protection so I’m wondering what she could be channelling but more of that later. I believe it is entirely possible for an infant to have a “Don’t fuck with me” look and loved that image of Kyra. However had she not been a mystical baby, I’m not sure that I could believe that once learning that all important word, ‘no’ she only uses it infrequently. Loved the scene where she raises her eyebrow and gives a tiny crooked half smile.

It was interesting seeing Tara’s reaction to Giles suggestion that perhaps Kyra was there to protect Willow and Tara. Apart from a natural feeling that parents are there to protect their children and not vice versa, it does seem likely that her feelings are heightened by her past experiences. The fact that she needed her mother to protect her from her father as she was growing up, the fact that both parents failed to protect her from Donny must have made her all the more determined to take on the role of Kyra’s protector. And it’s a long time since I read GS&A but I’m pretty sure that as a child Tara witnessed her mother being badly treated. Given how much she loved her mother it’s likely that she would have liked to protect her mother and felt bad when she couldn’t. So the idea of a child protecting its parents could evoke painful memories and feelings.

A lot of people have commented on the fact that your characters are so complex and layered. It’s good to be reminded that Tara can get angry, Willow can be unforgiving and resentful, Xander can be perceptive, Buffy can be intelligent, that Anya has emotional depth. I adore your Anya ( and I loved, loved her lullaby) and you make me like Buffy and Xander again after the show left me really disliking them. Giles is perfect, every line of dialogue is just right. And I like how you write Dawn. She’s become an intelligent, witty, insightful, caring and responsible young woman, not surprising given the sensitivity and love your Scooby’s all showed her in GS&A and continue to show to her now.

GS&A was so much an exploration of family and it’s so good seeing them as an established and loving family group, each with their individual relationships with each other as well as seeing the complex dynamics within the group. And it was wonderful seeing how you introduced Faith and how her presence changes those dynamics. You were so skilful in revisiting each character’s past history with Faith and I’m really enjoying how everyone is reacting to her presence in their own way. There’s a lot I’d like to say about Faith but it’s late so that will have to wait for another post. Just want to say again how much I enjoy your writing and how happy I am that your writing another story.

miss calendar

[HalfCamel]

Holy crap, Mary!! That was awesome.

So, considering this is in Willow’s POV her entire obsessive focus on Tara and Faith makes so much more sense now. As does this line now:

She looked at Tara and her heart sank. Her partner was smiling at the news.

Her insecurities were just eating away at her, which in turn made her hostile. I suppose it makes the most sense for Willow to be the affected one, considering her past with herself. It’s arguable that Tara could’ve been the one but she’s the one that’s grown the most.

Willow patronizing Dawn was kinda harsh, and kinda unfair to her. Yes, they could write it off as part of being “under the influence”, but in all reality it is how Willow really feels and it only came out into the open because of the thing (I really don’t know how to refer to it).

This line had me laughing a good while:

"Mostly I remember Mom saying, 'Oh my God--she burned this one down, too!'"

Why exactly did Willow say this:

"I'm sorry," she muttered morosely. What exactly am I sorry for?

Was it because she felt she was disappointing Tara? Or because maybe deep down in her subconscious she knew what she was gonna do later on? Don’t know, maybe I’m crazy.

My red flags went up as soon as Willow started to desperately need that nap. Combined with the headache and the snippiness and the hostility, I felt something was coming. And oh! did it ever!

Okay, I’m confused about this line:

"Yes. I carried her, but we're both her parents."

I thought the baby was from some mystical aftermath. Or was it just what Willow’s mind wanted to hear, considering how she took their conversation out of context?

Willow’s emotional state during her hallucination was just heartwrenching. All of her insecurities assaulting her at one time, and probably magnified… no wonder she wanted to jump. It was so sad to read. So, was Kyra still in the room during all the commotion? Cuz if she was then, man, that kid could sleep through anything! Which begs the question, why didn’t she do anything? I thought she had some mystical abilities or something.

So, I know the Scoobs had the whole buddy-up-and-we’ll-be-okay theory, but I just kept thinking how they were to close to one another to really see much of a change. I mean even Tara didn’t think to much of or say anything about Willow’s increasing hostility and those two are thisclose. So while they had good intentions it obviously didn’t work. Plus, I think they didn’t really think it would hit them, especially not this soon.

I can’t wait to see how the Scoobies react to the latest turn of events. I think that with Faith’s “do-gooders” comment the other day they might either commend her for her insightfulness or think she was maybe in on something. Could be wrong, though.

Jackie

[Patches]

Mary!! Just to reiterate the obvious, and oft stated—WOO HOO!! Welcome home, oh learned scribe! What a treat, not one but *three* updates to this delightful story when I signed in today. Great to have you back (in such fine form too). Kerry losing the election was a crushing blow to all things sane and rational. I do not envy you guys the government you’re stuck with, and the downright nasty socio-political climate it’s generating. I’m glad you’ve decided to come out of hibernation and are back to the land of all things Kitten. Don’t know if this’ll help or not, but I’ve devised the perfect solution for dealing with demons: don’t chase them—lure them into one spot, then nuke ‘em till they glow and shoot ‘em in the dark. Rather like shooting fish in a barrel, but infinitely more satisfying.

Update #10, 11 & 12 FB in hodgepodge fashion. – Screeching halt. Okay, that’s four updates (as I just got up to reading today’s postings – work sucks! I keep adding to this FB. So, here’s the first 3 chapters worth, and later 13a and 13 b. I’ve a chapter, and the words ‘The End’ that are beating me about the head and shoulders to get out of my brain and onto the page, but I think a little ‘this is how it’s done’ reading is a great excuse to procrastinate, don’t you? I'm at about 60,000 words and one-and-a-half chapters away from, 'The End' and re-write #1)

Thank you, once again, for the lesson in storytelling. The story picked up as if you’d posted last week—great glimpse into Willow’s mind re: Faith. I’m glad you brought up that whole knife-to-the-throat thing. I’d forgotten about that little episode. Yes, Willow, perhaps even more than Buffy has reason to question Faith’s presence, motives and frankly, why the dark slayer is still allowed to draw breath. (I guess she could draw cartoon characters, but that would really lessen the impact. Anyway, as usual, I digress). Thank you for continuing to ‘clean up’ the mess he-whose-name-we-shall-forget, made.

In all, great drama, lots of tension, many, many questions and, of course, your delicious characters and Scoobie-speak. Still, ever and always, your Scoobie moments are the greatest. Btw, that whole Buffy-Faith body swap moment—thanks for the laughs!! That was such a delicious set-up and execution. You do the comedic break so well. I wish, I dream, I try, but can never quite pull off that kind of crack humour when I write. I like the strict adherence to Willow’s POV; it’s challenging to get across necessary information when you can’t jump into another character’s mind. Great lesson in show, don't tell. What's really fun is writing third, objective but from a single character POV. Actually, scrap that, what it is is masochistic--however, the technique works well for flashbacks. It just hurts, a lot. LOL

Regarding any question of moral consternation over Willow’s petty larceny. Look at it this way: Willow et al are spending the money, which means they are paying taxes—and that in itself makes it acceptable, since you know the slime-bucket capitalist running pig-dog lackeys she’s pilfering from certainly pay far less than their fair share (read: nothing). Willow is doing the country’s economy a great service, and should be encourage at all costs--keep that money in circulation.

Krya is adorable—but speaking of ‘keys…’ doesn’t anyone wonder about a parallel between the mystical origins of Dawn and the delightful babe in arms with the somewhat highly advance moral code? The meeting at the magic shop was interesting. Btw, nice touch with Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle; you suppose that will be the theory that wipes behaviourist bullsh*t from the face of the earth (or at least polite society – but there I go with the digression, again). Ohh, the ending…what, oh what, good scribe, are you plotting out here??? Is Faith for real, or is she a snake charmer. Can’t wait for more. What, three updates in the space of as many days (give or take), and we’re whining for more – absolutely!!!

Mary, truly, it’s great to have you back again. I’d say, may your Muse be kind, but screw it. I want her smacking you about with a sledgehammer! Thanks for taking time to share your great stories with us. You give such a wonderful break from reality; it’s much needed and appreciated.

Cheers!!
Patches

[AntigoneUnbound]

Don't be fooled by cheap imitations: demand only 100% pure Kitten feedback. You'll be glad you did!

Hello, all. You know, it seems that a lot of people were growing increasingly worried about Willow's state of mind, particularly in light of the mental big bad that's taking some of Sunnydale's best. And you were right. I'll be illuminating more about the particular nature of this "influence," but suffice for now to say that it seizes onto something that's already present within the intended victim--some insecurity or fear.

Writing Willow's descent--literal and figurative--was very, very difficult because (a) such feelings are just painful to witness and (b) I wanted to strike a balance between the sheer emotional horror and sufficient logistical factors (her headaches and exhaustion; the disorientation; the method of suicide). Obviously, Willow's suicide attempt was mystical in origin: she may be insecure in some areas (as we all are), but this force seized on it and magnified it. In real life, though, people take their lives every day out of pain and despair, and others are left to carry on. If I touched a nerve with this scene (or with the suicide theme in general), please let me know. I want to be respectful of the reality of suicide, even in the midst of a story that has mystical implications.

Half-Camel raised a good question: Why did Tara tell Faith that she had carried Kyra? It's because even though Tara is coming to trust Faith's good intentions here, she's still going to be extra careful with any information regarding their daughter. So she basically lied, figuring that she can tell Faith the truth later if there's any reason to. It's basic parental protection.

OK--onto individual replies.

Jixer: As ever, you pick up the emotional nuances. Yes, there will always be a part of Willow that's just amazed that someone like Tara loves her; just as there will always be a part of Tara that's amazed someone like Willow loves her. And yes, I wanted the sleep to be a part of this. I wanted it to spiral down pretty quickly without Willow showing obvious signs of a complete breakdown. Yes, she was extra touchy, but she never lost contact with reality--until the very end. Ditto the headaches.
I don't want to give too much away re: Faith's attraction to Buffy, but suffice to say that Tara is about a step ahead of her there. And yes, the culmination is/would be quite the scene!
Jixer, my friend, I wish I could spare you, but...into each life a few hamsters must fall. Bring appropriate rodential rainwear.
Thanks for the great observations and encouragement. Lovin' Where Angels Fear to Prowl!

Carleen: First of all, I'm really enjoying Coming Back; left you feedback to that effect just today! And thanks for clearing up the dibs debate. I'm honored to be in on the fray. Glad you're liking "GS&A"; it was a great experience to write. Hope this one grabs you as well! Thanks for the good thoughts.

Marilda: OK, see, you've said one of the things I most wanted to hear: that even if you knew what was coming, it was tense and involving to read it. Yea! I knew people would figure out what was happening (if they hadn't already) and they would also know that I would never actually let Willow die. (What kind of wanker would kill of one of those two? Really...) So I really hoped to maintain suspense by living it through Willow's eyes. And you're right--a big bad whose victims do half the work? Terrifying... (Hey, I may use that last sentence...) Thanks for staying with me over the months, Marilda--love seeing your feedback!

Washi: Bonjour, mon amie! Yep, you were dead on! (No pun intended.) This big bad took a tense situation and worked it to its advantage. And you're right--the retribution will be truly exquisite to behold. Fuffy? Baith? Either way you cut it, it's got hot, muscular, girl-on-girl action--and if I have to write such passages to be true to the characters, then I will carry that burden as bravely as I can...Lovin' your feedback, Washi!

KatezOr: Hey, you're here! Welcome to postage, m'dear! Your wonderful words bring a big ol' smile to my face. This was an intense chapter to write (there's a shocker...) but I'm feeling like it came off OK. Glad you're enjoying this, and thanks for your encouragement.

WillowRosenberg: First of all, I'm glad you like "GS&A." It was a fantastic experience to write, in large part b/c such remarkable dialogue emerged re: the nature of evil and the role of family. Thank you, so much, for the feedback about the characters. I feel like Joss gave us such incredible people, and then kicked them to the curb. But that's where Kittens come in, of course--we're inclined to take good care of precious things. You know, when I was writing Dawn in "GS&A," I knew I'd have to greatly diminish the whine factor or I'd kill her off before anyone ever knew she was the Key. I don't want to make her perfect, but I want to give her a little more maturity.
And of course, Faith in the bathtub just felt too wonderful to pass up. She was just so...into switching with Buffy that I always felt it had less to do with wanting her life than wanting her. This felt like her best option, not to mention the one that her conscious mind could embrace.
As I mentioned to Marilda above, it feels good to know that the last 2 scenes were tense even if you knew what was happening. Poor Willow--believing so completely in that moment that she had lost Tara; should lose Kyra; had nothing to live for.
Very interesting observation re: Dawn's reaction to Faith's feelings (if they become public). One of the things I was aware of as I wrote this was how many things were going to be put into motion by the night's events. Willow's attempt obviously takes center stage, but Faith and her feelings will definitely figure into this.
Thanks for such wonderfully thoughtful feedback, WR. I love the feedback on this board--it's the only fan fic I do, and the intelligence and kindness of its members is a huge reason I post. I hope you like where it goes from here.
Hey--do you do any writing of your own?

Miss Calendar!!! Good heavens, ma'am, it's so good to see your name! I hope real life is improving, or has settled down...whatever you would wish of it. Still enjoying your music?
As always, your feedback leaves me wishing you wrote stories here. You capture so well what I most want to convey, and you express it so eloquently. As we talked about during "GS&A," characters are alpha and omega for me and clearly for you as well. I'm sorry for Joss that he created such wonderful characters and then abandoned them to caricature and cliche, but that doesn't mean we don't remember who they were and who they still are. Anya isn't just crass and blunt; Buffy can be something other than self-absorbed; Tara isn't just kind and gentle. Such restrictions would make a story easier to write (as Joss apparently found out) but oh, the cost...It is fun, though, to give Anya the occasional lullaby (and thank you--that was one of my favorite moments, I must confess). You know, for some reason Giles' dialogue is probably the easiest for me to write. Not sure why; I don't share his culture or nationality.
You're absolutely right: Tara's protective feelings are definitely heightened by her own bad experiences. I think that a lot of people go into parenting with their Northern Light, or true north, being: "I'll be different from my parents." And Tara's not that black-and-white, but she's definitely determined to protect Kyra from what she herself went through.
You know, if Faith is first runner-up in the "What's her story?" contest, Kyra is the runaway winner. So many questions, and yes--it's a very vague protection spell. It must be invoked by a woman, but it's not clear if female demons qualify. And what about evil human women, or women wanting to do harm and escape detection? And how does that factor into Kyra's origins? Yeah--I should probably answer some of those questions...(Just kidding--I do have a few of them taken care of.)
And finally, I'm glad Faith is feeling real to you. I find her a fascinating character, and she introduces so many possibilities by virtue of her personality and her history. I really wanted her in on this.
Thanks so much, Miss Calendar--I'm so glad to see you back and I hope you're doing well. Again--your feedback is just incredible.

Jackie: Holy crap, HC--awesome feedback as well!
You're absolutely right: it was imperative that Willow be the target. Not only do her insecurities lend themselves to Faith's appearance (Buffy gets mad, sure, but Willow gets insecure), but this story is from her POV and I wanted the readers to feel the malevolence from the inside. I actually thought about having Tara be the target, but I thought this opened up more dynamics and it let me stay with Willow's POV.
Willow's patronizing Dawn falls under the heading of "reactions/conjectures that ordinarily wouldn't be a problem unless they're connected to the insecurity." (I'm sure there's a word for that heading, but I dunno what it would be.) Dawn was going on and on about Faith; Faith was rapidly becoming Willow's hot spot; ergo, Willow diminishes or questions Dawn's experience.
The school burnage mention...It just always cracked me up how such things occurred and it didn't become the absolute focus of every living person on earth. I mean, obviously it couldn't, from a broader perspective of the show's weekly events, but still...A freakin' giant snake erupted out of the Mayor and ate the principal.
Willow's vague apology reflects her conflict: at some level she knows she's being rigid, and yet her emotional experience tells her that Faith represents danger, threat. Plus she's getting more and more exhausted such that analysis is becoming impossible.
At the risk of sounding like a sadist, I'm glad that Willow's experience was hard to read. As I've mentioned, I know that a lot of folks had figured out or at least suspected that Willow was affected, but I still wanted there to be tension in the scene. I'm glad that came off.
Good question about Kyra's location: she's in an adjoining room--close enough to reach easily, but still in her own room. Yes, she was sleeping (but may not stay that way).
Well, you know the Scoobies didn't expect it to hit them this quickly, but I see Willow's final descent being a pretty quick one. Yes, she's been hostile, but there's enough of a history b/w her and Faith to account for a lot of that. Tara was worried about her, but had no way of knowing that something like this had started. My hope was that Willow's reaction looked enough like insecurity tinged with jealousy that no one (in her group) would expect this. But now that it's out, they have some important information to sort through.

Patches, Patches--I've missed you in batches! Oh, it's so good to see your name! I'd posted these replies, then saw your name and thought, "Well, this just won't do...Must have Patches in the mix!"
Thanks for the consolation...I still can't believe it happened, except then I listen in on conversations and I think, "Oh--that's how it happened! We have some really, really stupid citizens!" I read a great spoof article about Canada instituting limits on progressives who wanted to emigrate--basically saying that it would upset the balance the country had achieved in areas such as gourmet coffee, Birkenstocks, and expensive wines.
And as always, your feedback is just incredible. Thank you so much for your comments about the characters--I know you pick up on their nuances in canon, and it feels good to hear that I'm capturing some of them here.
Of course, the humor is just a kick to write. With these guys, a lot of it writes itself; I just have to get out of the way. ("Incoming bon mot--everybody down!")
You know, Faith elicits such strong reactions in people; that's part of why I wanted her here. She's a fantastic catalyst: she's an intense character with intense histories with these people. And what exactly does she feel for Buffy...?
As for Kyra's origins, and possible connection to Dawn's...Well, we'll just have to wait and see!
Thanks again for your wonderful observations and warmth, Patches--
Your humble Mary, Queen of Scot (Tissues)

OK--that's all for now. Thanks for your insights and observations and support, peeps. Kittens just think at a deeper level, don't you agree?
Mary

[spells42]

whooooooo Mary! *takes deep breath*
I think I held my breath from round about where Willow woke up to the end of that post. A great couple of chapters! You built up the tension nicely then dropped us right in it, with Willow's vision and suicide attempt.
I was sympathetic to Willow's previous confusion over Tara's response to Faith, considering her usual reaction to a threat to Willow would be to render the assailant limb from limb. I was just beginning to view Willow's tension over Faith and her exhaustion with foreboding when you swept us along into that highly dramatic scene. I'd already dismissed it as a possibility a couple of times after you raised it (via Faith) in the fic. But that was a bluff, you tricky author, you.
OK, so now we know how the suicide urge works, but how will the Scoobies find the evil thingy that's pointing the bone? I can't wait to find out.
BTW - loved the line about graduation from Dawn

Mostly I remember Mom saying, 'Oh my God--she burned this one down, too!

lol.
AND thank you for your kind welcome. You're right, it's a great board: I enjoy not only the fics, but the support and thoughtful commentary in the feedback which build the sense of a lively and caring community.

Spells for two

[The Rose24]

Ouch! That is some brutal stuff.

They have to find out what is wrong with WIllow because it is really difficult seeing her suffer.

[mariacomet]

And thusly...right about when I e-mailed you with a very long analysis of who might try and commit suicide and why...you were posting an update.

So suddenly my epic analysis felt...er...late.

I found Willow's turnmoil heart rending. I like what you said about suicide being very serious and you wanting to respect that. I believe you did. You also took Willow's mind for an interesting turn when she remembered Kyra reaching for Faith and decided that was another sign that she wasn't needed.

I do wonder how much of what we saw was Willow and how much was the bad vision. How close to the surface are those demons of old? How far did the power that is doing this really have to reach? Because if this power needs a door...a seed to grow from, it means that Willow somewhere believes that she really is that unimportant. That replaceable. If that's true, it begs the question of how much has she truly been able to accept Tara loving her. There is a difference between believing someone loves you completely and knowing. If you say I believe, there leaves room for the possibility that you're wrong. Knowing doesn't leave that room. I wonder if Willow is somewhere between the belief and the knowing.

Despite the angest and hurting for our girls...and worrying about Willow. Two things made me quite cheerful.

One was seeing Protective Tara *TM. I love that 'don't mess with my girl,' side of Tara.

The second was Tara revealing what Faith has newly discovered. Faith loves Buffy. It strikes me that this might be a difficult road for Faith, however the Faith you created is so empathic and cool that I'm rooting for her.

Looking forward to more.

[watty]

Mary - I thought it's better to start a new post rather than to edit the earlier one, considering all the other comments (and your prompt replies) that have graced this thread within the last 24 hours or so. I hope you don't mind the silliness about the dibs and hijacking, usually I don't inflict this onto unsuspecting souls till I know them better, but having read OST virtually on a loop the last few months (alternating with Y'all/Paths, you and Debra are such sources of inspiration), I feel I know you ... even though you have no clue who I am and you're doing an excellent job of not rolling your eyes right now (virtually speaking) ... and I'm rambling ... sheesh.

To the update. What happened to Willow ... that was the thing at the edge of my mind that I couldn't quite place or articulate. That something was making one of them depressed and the feelings would simply overwhelm until it's too much to handle.

I didn't quite get as far as figuring out who it would happen to, but now it makes sense, Willow's venomous feelings towards Faith, that she and everyone else dismissed as merely Faith related. Whoever is putting these feelings in her head, they're doing a fantastic job of hiding their real intentions, sneaking upon her till it was the right moment to strike. You disguised it so well! I hope I don't come across as accusatory or anything, but this reminds me of the workings of the Trickster in Answering Darkness, where it's possible that the seeds of doubt had been planted earlier and waiting for the right moment to trigger. Willow's insecurities and jealousy are such easy targets to manipulate. Even though you're in the most secure relationship, these tend to creep up on you unawares, and Willow, despite her intelligence, has always been lacking in the self-awareness and self-confidence department.

You know, one has to read your chapter multiple times to get the nuances and little hints you put in, where you described Willow as being totally exhausted, how she snapped at everyone including Tara and Dawn, the pounding headaches, plus

"Or...Or maybe I'm psychotic," [Willow] finished lamely.

may be I missed connecting the dots cos I have no nuance?

The moment, when it hit, was very sudden and you wrote it so well! I was pulled into the narrative before I even have time to digest and process. Willow's misinterpretation of Tara and Faith's conversation; seeing and hearing things that didn't happen; the frantic scrambling through the bathroom and closet; the disjointed thoughts; the utter conviction that Tara and Kyra don't want her --- it's so real, and I was experiencing it as I was reading, with no time for analysis, and that made it so breathtaking. I did heave a huge sigh of relief when Faith grabbed Willow and hauled her back up, it is telling that it was Faith who saved her life. See? I have some nuance.

I can't imagine how Tara must be feeling now. Just earlier (last update) she was adamant that she'd sense any change in Willow's demeanor and be able to pre-empt any dips in mood leading to suicide attempts. Oh how I feel for her now, she must be racked with guilt and self-doubt. I hope she doesn't, cos it's no one's fault. I myself said, depression and illusion and in this case hallucination can hit so quickly, that the people around Willow had no time to react. Tara has to be careful that she isn't the next target.

Tension is running high in the Scoobies. Buffy description of Giles

"Giles was going on and on about how if this kept up he wouldn't need any evil force to convince him to kill himself."

is probably supposed to be taken lightly, but in current circumstances, any declaration like this will be ominous, and that's probably the aim of the big bad, that every word is taken too seriously, dissected and analyzed to death (no pun intended) until everyone's so afraid of even speaking.

How, if anything, does Kyra fit into this? Cos if she was sent to protect her mothers, she was presumably fast asleep when Will tried to jump, unless in her sleep she sent messages to Faith. As for Tara's explanation to Faith about carrying Kyra, I know you explained already, but it didn't bother me one iota. They still have a little reservation about Faith, so to cut out the complicated explanation, it's probably easier to say that Tara did carry her. Now the paranoia is contagious, cos one part of me is saying it's fine and hunkydory, another part is thinking ... is something or somebody putting false ideas and memories in Tara's head, tampering with her mind like it did Willow's, so she is now believing that she did carry Kyra?

Is that the purpose? To put so much paranoia into their (and our) heads? Ultimately, what is the purpose of getting all the do-gooders to commit suicide? What does that do, apart from causing paranoia amongst do-gooders? Why particularly Willow out of the Scoobies? She's not the most saintly (that's Tara), or knowledgeable (that's Giles) or strongest (the slayers). Or is it part of an elaborate scheme to take out all the Scoobies? You've built the intrigue so well ...

I haven't said anything about Faith. Seeing how the previous chapters had so much Faith, it's a little different (but by no means in a bad way) to have a chapter where Faith is present but not the focus of attention. I hope that by saving Willow, by winning over Dawn and Tara in her own way, she can gain some more acceptance. I like it that it's perceptive Tara who susses out Faith's feelings about Buffy. I sense that even Faith herself hasn't come to terms with it, and definitely not Buffy! Now I'm wondering what Faith did to Buffy's body, and whether those feelings of love were before or after the body swap?

Wow, look at the size of this feedback. Car and I were just chatting, and she's reading GSA and amazed at the length and quality of feedback you get in all your stories. When I was still in lurker mode, I was kinda intimidated at the feedback -- not in a bad way, it's just that I could never imagine being able to say so much, to articulate so many thoughts and feelings, and it's only reading one chapter of a fanfiction story! But now, having gone through the delurking and writing and thinking about stories process, I can say that every single sentence in your stories prompt so much thought, that it's impossible for me not to just say "great chapter" and leave it at that ... of course it's a great chapter, a fantastic chapter even, but the effect of your writing is to make me think ... and I'm babbling again.

In other words, thanks for the story, thanks for making me think, thanks for making me write so much, I hope you're able to follow my thought process.
[br]

[JustSkipIt]

Hey Mary,
Sorry to say I’m going to give rather abbreviated feedback although you deserve much much more. The baby will wake up any minute now…

I read all three updates over the course of a few days without writing feedback in between. What sucks is that I didn’t get a chance to call that Willow was being mystically attacked back at the start of her irrational thoughts and actions, particularly the complete exhaustion. But I really did see it. Really! From the dream. It seems to me that Willow’s being plagued by fears of being replaced by someone she considers more worthy. Faith is stronger, sexier, etc. and Willow thinks she will replace her with Tara/Kyra like she did with Buffy. That’s an incredibly sad feeling. So the monster (whatever it is) just jumps on that and blows it up, etc. and voila, one suicide down.

Now, I think I’ve been very out about loving Faith and here I can see no reason whatsoever to doubt her. She seems to be a new improved Faith, more witty, smarter, more insightful, great timing, very sincere. Mass is a bit of a stretch, but she seems way improved.

Lol about what Faith did in Buffy’s body. And definitely lol about Willow’s money making activities. Hey, if she can make up a birth certificate, why not?

Kyra slaying! That’s so great. It’s obvious that she’s a savior so why not start early?

"I am the Chosen One," Buffy hissed. "I've averted an apocalypse every year. I took down a god." She stamped her feet and glared at them. "I am not 'Bub the Vampire Slayer'!"

It does have a ring to it.

"But why does she drop it to one syllable?" Willow asked Tara after they figured out what Kyra meant. "I mean, even if they can't say the word properly, kids typically try to match the cadence." (Research was her forte; she knew her developmental milestones and most subtleties thereof.)

I’m trying to remember how old Kyra is but actually kids don’t generally match the cadence. They frequently shorten words to one syllable or drop off the end or beginning of a word until around 2 years old. (Sorry, Ima Debra decided to make an appearance).

Hey girl!! Oh my goddess, look at Asher! How do you stand the cosmic cuteness? Don't you have to wear protective lenses just so you don't explode with abject adoration when you look at him?

Thanks so much and you ain’t seen nothing yet. As soon as the new Ashvatar is ready… It’s my favorite I think.

Looks like "Ash Island" (name coincidence? Doubt it!) is next up on my reading list!

You’ll like it (If I do say so). I think you also missed School Days and Holiday Cheer. You’ll really appreciate School Days.

Ok, I already said my “I guessed its” on Willow. Here’s what I like about this approach: even though we know that Willow’s problem is spiritually or mystically induced, I would imagine (and I’m not a trained therapist) that people who fall into this type of depression have this experience; it’s just not magical. But they probably go through a process of feeling angry, sad, tired, unnecessary, etc. Very scary that.

Ok, I’m going to go and read a programming journal. Great to have you back!

[Patches]

Mary, indeed you are the Queen of Scot(issues). You certainly go where angles fear to tread. Good call on posting 13a and 13b consecutively. In the past few years, you’ve written some emotionally compelling prose, but I cannot recall being so riveted to the page as I was for Chapter 13. I can only describe it as watching a train wreck; you know it’s coming but you can’t look away. Willow’s internal dialogue was bone chilling. Her decent into madness dragged the reader right along; it was crushing—the despair, and then the clarifying moment, “Her mind was finally clearing. She could see now; things finally made sense. The pounding headache had disappeared.” Willow’s internal isolation and disengagement, her insecurities over Faith mirroring and magnifying her own shortcomings fed this entire scene.

In your FB you mentioned ‘touching a nerve.’ Oh, and did you ever. But that’s the hallmark of good writing though, isn’t it? Make the reader uncomfortable, but do so in a way that allows them to continue reading. ‘Madness’ may drive someone to suicide, but the act itself is cold, clinical and rational. Yes, this is, as you say, ‘mystical’ in origin, but you know what—it made my blood run cold anyway. Seriously. Cold. I love emotional pressure cookers (as well you know by now), but wow, was this scene every a shot between the eyes. You have an ability to write with truth and clarity that drags fragments of reality into escapism in a way that just makes me squirm. And yes, you can feel good about this (just not too good, okay? LOL)

Part of the reality of the situation, fictional construct and all, is that Willow’s descent goes unnoticed. Even through the rising tension with Faith and Tara outside the bedroom door, you know they suspect something’s wrong, but let’s face it—if they *knew* what was happening on the other side of the door, they wouldn’t’ve knocked while Willow played out her own version of ‘Do not go gentle into that good night.’ What really hit was that you allowed the scene to play out in its entirety; Willow had stepped into oblivion. Nice touch. And this: “This was our bed... The sobs were abating slightly. Now she was edging toward numbness--not the cold clarity of moments before, but a deadening, something to give even a moment's reprieve from the agony that awaited her,” gives me the ‘we’re not out of the woods yet,’ feeling. And on another level—that’s the ‘gee, it didn’t work’ reaction.

A big bad that preys on emotional weakness and fears – eeps! Now there’s a mindf*ck. Now, on a way much lighter note…Faith and Buffy??? Buffy might be straight, but there’s always an allowance for a tip of the Kinsey scale, right? So, I guess this gets me all caught up. Brilliant piece of writing. It certainly is good to have you back. Btw, you’ll love Debra’s Survivor: Ash Island.

Cheers!!
Patches

[meretricious]

mary, amazing how persistent the mind (ok, my mind) can be once it preconceives some notions. even as you subtly, but persistently, articulated willow's downward spiral, my brain was locked into how bad willow was going to feel about letting all this paranoia distract her from anything that may happen to tara. i think it took 'til willow snapped at krya for the clue by four hit me and i had my d'oh moment, i could only appreciate the irony that i can be every bit as single minded as willow was being.

i was completely struck by willow's clarity of purpose, and how strongly she felt her absence would be the right thing for everyone. she's not just reacting to the pain of tara "replacing"her with faith, but is convinced she is doing the right thing for tara, kyra and faith. this seems like a symptom of why this spell, or whatever it is, is acting on people known for their goodness. this negates my theory that faith may not be vulnerable to this attack, because i certainly think she is capable of selflessness, if anything, her path of personal redemption may make her more suscep tible than the rest of the cast.
makes me wonder, which is the chicken and which is the egg when it comes to this "spell", was it designed to intentionally target the selfless, or is their some other purpose at work and the vulnerability of the do-gooders a side affect?
and to paraphrase something you said in "on second thought", i wonder if you'll ever get tired of hearing how much i love your writing? amazing how much humor there was in this update(s) even as it leads to something so decidedly unfunny. when i read "thus ends my experimentation with prayer" i believe i actually guffawed.
i think your welcome back to the board is officially complete now that you've experienced the watson/carleen hijacking. they often let their inner twelve year olds run the controls and draw others into their madness. just don't make direct eye contact with either of them, and you'll be fine. ~mary

[AntigoneUnbound]

Complete the following: "Authors love feedback like:
a. the Red Sox love the Yankees";
b. Karl Rove loves bipartisan collegiality";
c. Dubya loves an evening of lively intellectual conversation";
d. Tara loves Willow."

A lot of people commented on how scary it was to watch Willow go under. Her final experience captured some of the elements of suicidal action: a belief that this is how it should be, or is supposed to be; a belief that one's life no long has purpose or hope. But certainly the abrupt descent is unique to this mystical force, w/ the exception of very sudden, cataclysmic losses or upheavals in someone's life that leaves one absolutely unable to imagine going on. Again, I know this is some intense stuff so please let me know if it feels that I'm mishandling it or treating it as anything other than horrific. Thanks.

Spells: Hey, now I get it your name: "Spells For Two." (Yeah, I'm good with words and such...) I'm really glad you enjoyed this chapter or at least found it compelling. (Maybe "enjoy" isn't the right word.)

You know, Willow's distress over Tara's seeming willingness to forgive Faith captures some of the scary middle ground: of course Tara hadn't forgotten Faith's past behavior (and she told Willow that), but she's also very perceptive re: people's motivations and essential moralities; plus she's picked up that Faith has real feelings for Buffy, which tells her that there's at least some humanity in there. And Willow is coming increasingly under the influence of this force such that everything else gets eclipsed.

BTW, glad you liked the graduation line; I just loved how no one ever talked about it again on screen. I mean, I understand that's how the show worked, but every now and then I just have to laugh at the willful oblivion of the Sunnydale populace. Thanks for the kind words, Spells, and you're right: the board has some wonderful people on it!

Rose: Oh yeah--Willow suffrage, never good. I promise I'll take care of our girls!

MC: Hey, not of the lateness lament--I loved reading your e-mail and going, "Girlfriend's right on target!" Part of why I waited until this afternoon to reply to it was b/c I knew I couldn't get into the discussion w/o giving away the fact that you had pretty much nailed everything right on the head. But I was reading it and thinking that I wasn't surprised you were so dead-on accurate, b/c you "get" motivation and undercurrent really, really well.

You ask some very good questions about the force, and what it needs to get in and start wreaking havoc. I'm going to have White House press secretary Scott McClellan step up and answer those questions. Scott? No, no...Here's the deal, how I'm seeing it: everyone has vulnerabilities, insecurities. Part of what makes this force so terrifying is that virtually no one would be able to withstand it unless they knew they were being "attacked," and even then it would take immense help and perspective from others. You'll notice that all but one of the previous suicides were in strong relationships--people who are suicidal are often at least emotionally cut off from others, such that they slip away without anyone noticing that something is really off. (Note the "often" aspect; there are certainly no universals in that struggle.) So Willow felt threatened, and had some good historical reason to do so. It was only within the past 24 hours that it really started to interfere with her life, and the last 10 minutes that it completely took her. No, she wasn't possessed; it was still her doing the thinking, but something had thrown lenses onto her perception that she was unaware were even involved. So Willow is now going to be able to give the group some really important information about how this thing works. Does a part of her still struggle with her social history? Yes, just as everyone here struggles with something deep inside. For the most part, they've made a workable peace with it but it can never be as if the original vessel was never chipped or cracked.

And I am most certainly looking forward to playing with the Faith/Buffy element.

Thanks for all the great feedback, MC. I'll be replying to your e-mail later this afternoon. Let me say for public consumption, though, that you are a very, very sharp reader.

My Dear Watson: (And forgive what is probably the 728th time you've been called that here...) First of all, I am deeply honored to be in on the dibs hoo-ha. I shall do my best to provide a quality setting for such activity, provided you and Car practice safe dibbing. And ramble away, sweetie--I blush when I read your posts and it has nothing to do with my abiding modesty and decorum. (As if!) Oh, and I agree: Debra is a fantastic writer. One of my activities this week is catching up on her stories!

Yes, Willow's descent was scary (or at least, I intended it to be scary) b/c it has some original element of realistic threat appraisal based on history--but then it spirals in such a way that she's suddenly just in it: no perspective, no sense that "Of course this couldn't happen. Tara loves me and even if she were attracted to Faith [because I, Mary, believe that love doesn't preclude an occasional attraction; it's what we do with it that matters] there's no way she'd stand there in our kitchen and kiss another woman." That part of her brain has been completely eclipsed.

No, I certainly didn't hear anything accusatory in your reference to "Answering Darkness." (My lawyer will be contacting you re: the slander suit.) I'm embarrassed to admit that I haven't read it, though clearly I need to b/c it's obvious that it's a popular story. I need to devote an afternoon just to it, I suspect. Anyway, I actually want to know if I'm completely recreating something that's already been done, and I just realized how redundant that last phrase was. So yeah--if you're reading this going, "Whoa--been there; read that," please let me know. As I mentioned to MC above, part of what makes this force so scary is that absolutely no one is immune. Show me someone with no insecurites at all about the most precious parts of her/his life, and I'll show you someone in a coma or perhaps on some really, really good drugs.

I'm glad the scene flowed for you. It was tough to write but I feel OK about how it came off. And you're right: Tara's gonna be in for a world of self-recrimination, even though she truly could not have known that this would happen. Yes, she was growing alarmed but in the past few hours it became more about Willow's physical health: the exhaustion, when Willow is hardly known for her sluggishness. You're also right about the Scooby's interactions in the immediate future: how do you not become so immersed in analysis and double-checking that you end up paralyzed? Giles' comment was a throw-away of the sort that none of them will make for a while.

No, Tara's explanation to Faith had no element of memory loss; she's just playing it safe. And why Willow (or Willow first)? Well, at least part of it had to do w/ my needs as the writer. As I mentioned, no one is immune. I wanted to show it from the inside, and Willow's my narrator. So having it come from her POV was imperative; in addition, she does has a history with Faith in which she felt replaced, so it could work. (Of course, had someone else been the target, it would have played on that person's fears.)

I can't imagine that Faith's rescue will go unnoticed or unappreciated by the others--including Willow herself. I think it's pretty clear by now that this Faith is for real, and the others will probably start to accept that as well. I always knew it would be Tara who realized how Faith really felt; in part b/c she's so perceptive, but also b/c she has more perspective than anyone besides Anya (and she ain't exactly hosting a tea for the Dark Slayer). You know, Tara's tricky to write only b/c it's so easy to make her a saint--very endearing and lovable, but not necessarily real or engaging. So I like her to have flashes of anger, or unreasonableness, or some other human frailty. But yes, I think she's sharper re: human emotions than the others. When did Faith start to fall for Buffy? I actually think it started way, way back--she felt connected to her and intimidated by her and she wanted to be an essential part of her world. Much there to explore, methinks...

Oh good heavens, and look at the size of this message. (What are we--a couple of size queens?) Thanks so much for your incredibly perceptive and warm feedback, Watson. I really enjoy and appreciate the thoughtfulness of your ideas.

Deb: Hey girl! Thanks for catching up. I'm actually deep into Ash Island (just before the merge) and figure I'll leave feedback after a couple more readings, and then add on periodically as I get up to date. Also need to head back to School (Days) and see just how our 2 girls figured out who they each were! Gotta say, I'm lookin' forward to that.

This force can target any do-gooder and do its damage b/c everyone's susceptible; everyone has fears and insecurities. Though this was an excruciating experience for Willow, she'll be able to give them valuable info b/c she's the first person who's survived. And yes--that feeling/fear of being replaced by someone whom you deem better than you in really essential ways is just a horrible, aching, wrenching feeling that rips you right open to your gut...not that I have any experience with that. And I believe you when you say that you targeted Willow as...well, the target. I could tell that a lot of the Kittens were getting wise to it; you're a sharp bunch.

As you can probably infer, I'm also a Faith fan and I think it's becoming clear that she's sincere here. The Mass comment was actually a total joke on my part. I didn't really see her going; I just wanted her to not rise to Anya's accusation, instead throwing out something highly improbable and then effectively closing the case. But a few people have wondered if she actually went, and I think that's a function of seeing a different Faith.

It's really interesting for me to write Kyra. I'm not a mother (nor do I play one on TV) and I don't typically write children. But I "saw" her here and decided to take the authorial plunge. You know, I was wondering about the language piece! I thought I remembered the language cadence thing from my grad class on early childhood development, but couldn't track it down. I should have left it out, but I feared someone would point it out. Less is more, Mary--learn it; live it.

You're absolutely right about the progression/downward spiral of the vast majority of people who feel and/or commit suicide. It happens much more gradually, but yes: there's the hopelessness and despair and the conviction that one will not be missed. It's gut-wrenching; I'll never grow hardened to it. (Nor, indeed, should I.)

A new Ashtar? I'm bracing myself...

Thanks for the great feedback, Debra. Hope the manual was fun!

Patches Most Dear; I'm So Glad You're Here! I love that you pick up on the final clarity before Willow's act, b/c that's one of the most terrifying things about suicide. Many of the people close to folks who have killed themselves report that their loved one actually seemed better, calmer right before his/her death. That's about the person having reached a decision: there's a release from the turmoil of uncertainty. It's chilling in its capacity to misdirect us.

You make a good point about touching a nerve. This is supposed to be emotional stuff; I would hope the reader wouldn't follow along going, "Huh--there goes Willow, off to kill herself..." More than anything, I just want to handle it respectfully and honestly and to be sensitive to the fact that this may hit a personal nerve for people. It's like writing the scenes with Donnie in "GS&A," you know? (Where you also left such lovely fb...) And part of the mystical aspect of Willow's descent is its incredible quickness: it's only been within the last 24 hours that it started to affect her life (e.g., her conversation w/ Dawn; feeling grumpy with Kyra) and only 10 minutes in which it has her. As Watson noted, Tara's gonna struggle with self-recrimination but there's really no way she could have know that this was at play.

And of course there are all sorts of hash-marks on that great Kinsey scale o' life and love! What might emerge for Buffy? Hmm...

Thanks for leaving such thoughtful, insightful feedback, Patches, not to mention making me feel all warm and happy inside!

Mary, Mary; Quite Literary: (OK, lemme know if that rhyme irks the hell out of you; heaven knows I've heard the original about 27,364 times(plus/minus 2) in my life.

Actually, I'm glad that you (and several other Kittens) didn't fully realize it was Willow until this update, b/c she did have reason to distrust Faith and her reaction could have been a function of her insecurities. You climbed aboard the Clue Train in plenty of time, girl.

You're absolutely right: the utter conviction piece is essential here. It's a vital piece of having the person commit suicide quickly, before she/he talks to others. I mean, clearly Willow wasn't entirely herself b/c not only did she hallucinate that kiss, but it never even crossed her mind to question it. Even if Tara were attracted to someone else (and I believe committed people can and usually do have such experiences), there's no way she would be kissing this woman right there in their kitchen 2 days after she arrives in town. But Willow "sees" it and the only emotional response we see is the initial cry--and then she's all business. Part of that is numbness, but a bigger part is the force-induced conviction that she now knows what she has to do and that it's the right thing. And that's part of what makes this thing so terrifying. Hell, I'm wetting my pants just writing about it here.

Good question re: the chicken/egg nature of this force. I'll be curious to see what you think of how that's divulged, what it is.

Grow tired of your kind words? Would any of us grow tired of Amber bringing us coffee in the morning and kissing us gently to wakefulness? (OK, now I'm wetting my pants again but in an entirely different way and oh, please forgive the utter smuttitude of that comment.) Which is to say: I love reading your thoughts and observations and encouragement, and you also have ample room to offer any criticisms you ever have. You're a sharp reader; I trust you.

OK, that's all for now. Thanks again, folks, for following this story.
Mary

[miss calendar]

Hi Mary,

Thanks for the welcoming response and thanks for enquiring about the music. Actually that’s a painful area right now; since I stopped playing professionally it’s been hard finding time to practise and to keep my playing up to the standard I’d like. Still, when I eventually rearrange my life to give myself more free time, I intend to make music part of my everyday life again.

Anyway, back to your fic. You got me thinking a lot about Faith so I thought I’d share some of those thoughts with you. When you first introduced her I was taken completely by surprise but I was very excited because she is one of my favourite characters and I couldn’t wait to see what you did with her. I haven’t been disappointed; you write Faith so well and in the process use her to further the plot, deepen the characterisations and to explore themes which I imagine will be central in this fic. Those became much clearer in the latest updates – up until then I’d just been enjoying Faith’s presence but now I can see how central, how crucial Faith is to this story.

It’s true that Faith elicits very strong feelings in people, whether it’s the Scoobys, viewers of the show or fanfic readers. As you say, her personality and history are full of possibilities and, if this fic is going in the direction I think it is, her name presents many possibilities too. I love the way you are using her as a catalyst for character and plot development. Mind you, if you think about it, Faith has always been a catalyst for change. Whatever you may think of her actions she undoubtedly has had a profound impact on all the Scooby’s lives, often influencing them in positive ways.

Willow is the most obvious example of this since being kidnapped and being held at knifepoint by Faith led to her making the decision to stay in Sunnydale and to fight evil alongside the Slayer. And I always thought that it wasn’t until Faith came on the scene that Buffy actually chose to be the Slayer and committed to it wholeheartedly instead of wishing she could still have an ordinary life. When it came down to it she was very attached to her identity as the Chosen One, didn’t like the competition at all. Even Tara has reasons to be grateful to Faith. Yes, she was a complete bitch but on the upside, Tara’s role in identifying and rectifying the body swap meant that from the start the Scoobys saw her as someone with a lot to contribute who had already been a great help. I’m sure that made it easier for Tara to eventually be accepted as part of the group, something Faith never achieved despite being a Slayer. And of course doing the Flaming O spell did take Willow and Tara’s relationship to a new level………

In your fic I see Faith as being a catalyst on a more subtle level. On the one hand her presence stirs up feelings of insecurity and inadequacy, jealousy and envy, anger and resentment and evokes fear of further betrayals. These are feelings they each have to deal with in their own way which could easily leave them more vulnerable to the ‘mental big bad’. On the other hand she provides an opportunity to open up their minds and hearts, to move on from the past and respond to her with understanding, forgiveness and compassion. So in effect they each have a choice whether to respond to her from their most positive or most negative aspects. How many will be willing to make that leap of faith and trust her again?

Of course I don’t want to make light of Faith’s past behaviour. She chose to go down that dark path into cruelty, violence and murder and worked to further a cause she knew was evil. She betrayed the group, betrayed their values and threatened their lives. She strangled Xander, held a knife at Willow’s throat. And if I were Buffy I would find it hard to forget Faith’s willingness to join ‘Angelus’ in torturing her or the fact that she nearly killed Joyce.

That said, I agree with Dawn that there are some double standards operating. You have to admit, it’s ironic that Angel is being called as a character witness for Faith. How many people did Angelus torture and kill? For that matter, how many did Anyanka? Faith doesn’t come close. If they can forgive and accept both Angel and Anya, then why not Faith? (By the way, I’m so glad that your Angel got Faith back slaying instead of persuading her to go to prison, which never made sense to me). Is it so hard to believe that atonement and redemption are possible for Faith too, that she genuinely wants to change for the better? The seeds were already there; during the body swap incident instead of escaping on a plane, Faith chose to do the right thing and save the people trapped in the church.

It seems to me that most of the Scoobys were always too willing to believe the worst of Faith. It may be that the Mayor was the first person to believe in her potential (okay potential for evil but he was still proud of her) and that combined with the affection he showed Faith must have been hard for someone so obviously starved of love and approval to resist. If she’d been fully accepted into the Scooby family would she have made the same choices?

So I got a bit carried away there, but basically I’m with Dawn. I want to believe Faith has reformed. I love how Dawn is so active in trying to persuade the others to give her a second chance and I agree that maybe it is Faith’s turn to have someone forgive her and invite her in. Kyra led the way, Dawn is laying the ground work and it looks like Tara may be the one who makes it happen. I imagine now she has saved Willow’s life, Faith has Tara on her side and will be in much better standing with everyone else. Since Tara does see the good in people and wants to believe the best of them I think she could really help to make it possible for Faith to finally become a fully fledged Scooby. Of course you may be planning to make Faith the big bad.....

Willow’s descent into suicidal feelings was so swift it was quite shocking. Yes, you’d given us hints that something was amiss but the speed with which she completely lost it gave everything an air of unreality and made it hard to believe what was happening. I admit I was not entirely convinced. However in a way that worked well because it brought home that this wasn’t really how Willow would normally act. I mean it’s one thing for Willow to believe she isn’t worthy of Tara and to be afraid of Tara abandoning her and quite another to completely discount their deep bond and believe that Tara would choose Faith over her at the first opportunity. And how could she believe that Kyra doesn’t need her? It was an uncomfortable inside view of Willow’s process that let us glimpse what it was like to be under the influence of this psychotic big bad.

I thought your choice of POV worked especially well here. I’ve always liked the interplay between the more objective third person description interspersed with Willow’s first person thoughts. As a reader you then end up seeing the action and at the same time being influenced by Willow’s thoughts. And it’s tantalising because we only get to share some of her thoughts, the rest of the time we’re left guessing what’s going on for her. So Willow becomes not exactly an unreliable narrator, more an unreliable commentator. I found it disturbing but very effective that in this particular scene you gave us more and more of Willow’s thoughts in quick succession and we could see how they were getting further and further away from reality.

It was interesting that it was at the point when Willow lost faith in herself and in Tara, the point where she no longer believed she had anything to offer that she made the suicide attempt. How fitting then that she should be saved by Faith…………

Thanks again for a wonderful story.

miss calendar

[good2cats]

Oh Happy Happy Day! I just noticed many wonderful updates by my favorite bard .I had begun to dispare that you had dropped off the face of the earth.I hope that you and the fur kids are well.
The story is progressing beautifiully, quite the thrill ride.I really like the image of Kyra playing with her stake and slay doll you can't have too much Barney bashing for my taste.That insipid purple poof I always felt he should sing I hate you .You beat me we're a dsyfunctional family... he is so nauseatingly sweet.Willow's decent into madness was so skillfully rendered I felt as though I was taken to the balcony with her.I can't wait to see what kind of force,besides my mother,could so completely disarm a person and bring them so rapidly to a point of utter desolation.
Mary as always it is a delight to see you posting again Please Please do continue .Be well,Karen

[Willow~Rosenberg]

Hey. Saw you commented on my feedback, do just answering the question (plus commenting some more after a second read through of 13a/13b).

I have been writing a W/T fanfic, but I've never posted it anywhere. I've kinda been plugging awaay at it for months, adding more whenever I have time or an idea. I don't know if I'll ever post it anywhere, as I'm not really a writer and it's just been a project for me. Who knows, maybe someday I'll get the notion that I should post it. I have posted some of my artwork in the other forum (under my former screenname Willow18). I'm an art student, and felt more comfortable posting that in all honesty.

Now, enough about me. The second read through: I was remiss not to comment on Dawn's recollection of the gang's high school graduation. 'Oh my God- she burned down this one, too!' That had me laughing out loud.

Faith has always been one of my favorites besides Will and Tara. Like how you've brought her back into the picture without insulting her as some other writers, who will remain nameless, did on a season that, thankfully, you pointed out, was all a nightmare. On her redemption path, I can see a motivation for her talking to Tara. She probably feels bad about her original interaction with Tara, whom she finds out is a great person. Despite all of the reasons Tara has for not trusting Faith or letting her near Kyra, Tara still reaches out to her just by listening and not judging her.

I am also wondering how the Scooby Gang is going to react to Willow's attempted suicide. I know Buffy and Tara probably are going to blame themselves the most: Tara, as Willow's partner, and Buffy, because she takes on the weight of the world and every negative action involved with the effect being the Slayer has on those she loves.

I also imagine that Dawn will be quite shaken, as Willow was always there for Dawn and is someone whom she admires.

Even if you don't specifically write the scene where Faith tells everyone what happened, I know the reactions will be apparent in their interaction with Willow.

I look forward to reading your next update and trust that all will turn out well for our girls in the end.

[AntigoneUnbound]

Hello all! Stunned, as ever, by the quality an thoughtfulness of your feedback...

Miss Calendar: I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of playing time. I can only guess how difficult that must be. I hope that the rearrangement needed comes soon and that music again occupies a central role--not just in your energy but in the time you have to devote to it. I just started learning the guitar and I keep thinking, "My fingers are so big! And--ow!" But I'm building up the callouses so that helps.

I love your thoughts on Faith; particularly her history with each of them. I don't want to give too much away, but...Oh, alright, I'l spill: she and Giles are getting married. OK, not so much. Let's just say that you touch on some facts and themes that will be making an appearance soon. I also have a softness for Faith and found her arc to be really tragic. I'll be curious to see what you think of how this unfolds.

I mentioned this with a couple of other folks, but it was really imperative for Willow to be its first Scooby target. Each of them have weaknesses and insecurities that it could exploit, but Willow's my narrator and I wanted the readers to see first-hand how this thing works. Yes, it works very quickly, as it has to: each of the victims has has deep and meaningful connections to other people. Someone would have noticed a more gradual descent, and intervened. Willow was a little wonky about Faith to begin with; it was only within the past 24 hours that is really began to affect her daily life (e.g., being snappish with Kyra) and the last scene spanned about 10 minutes. This force leaves no trace, so however inexplicable it might seem, suicide is the only possible verdict in the investigations.

You have such great observations on all of this, particularly character. I love reading them.

Karen! Hey, Cat-Woman! So good to "see" you! My kids are doing fine; 2 weeks ago I rescued this little kitten that was sitting in the middle of a back road with her eyes sealed shut from conjunctivitis--blithely unaware of the impending vehicular disaster. Anyway, I'm fostering her (named her Roadkill) and taking her to the vet and looking for a good home but frankly it wouldn't suprise me if she ended up with me.

Well, Karen, you nailed it: your mother is the big bad in this story! Actually she sounds like a true force; hope you're sufficiently innoculated.

I agree: staking is too good for Barney. Damn I hate that guy. And I'm glad Willow's descent was a compelling read for you--not enjoyable, certainly, but engaging.

Thanks for the welcome back, Karen! Give your owners a skritch for me.

[WillowRosenberg:[/b] First of all, I understand the hesitation to post. It took me awhile to screw my courage to the sticking place; when I did, it really hurt. Courage has feelings too, you know. Bad jokes aside, I remember having this conversation with a woman I used to date; we were discussing writing and I was saying I didn't know if I was good enough to have anyone read my stuff. And she said, "So what if you're not? Even if your work isn't what other people, or a majority of other people, would say is 'good.' Is that any reason to stop writing?" She's right: the main thing is, what does the act of writing give you? If it's important, anything else is just icing.

Glad you liked the high school graduation comment. I just love how no one ever talks about such things after they happen when of course, if anything even half that dramatic happened life they would talk of nothing else for months to come.

I share your fondness for Faith. As Miss Calendar, she really is a catalyst for so many things. And I felt for her in her descent; I really did. She just wanted to be somebody's favorite. She had hoped that would be Buffy, but the Mayor stepped in nicely.

You're right about the reactions. Tara will blame herself even though there's no way she could have known; and Buffy is incredibly protective of Willow, in addition to feeling her duties as a Slayer. It'll be interesting and we'll definitely see their reactions soon.

Thanks for the good thoughts!

Thus endeth the reply session for the evening, or early morning as it may. (It's 4:30 am where I am; insomnia is just a way of life.)
Mary

[skeeter451]

Hey Antigone...

I thought it was time to come out of lurker mode and let you know I'm enjoying this story. I didn't notice it until it popped up on the thread list the other day and of course now that I've read it, I was inspired to go back and read Gods Served and Abandoned. Reading is still in progress, but I just wanted to comment on the irony of this...

"Yes, well, if we survive this perhaps we can adopt a little orphan demon ourselves and name it as we see fit. Until such time, shall we focus on the matter at hand?" Giles never found these detours as entertaining as they all did, Willow thought sadly.

Was that thoughtful foreshadowing or just a coinkadinky?

As for As Time Goes By, I quickly realized what was happening with Willow, but it still scared the bejesus out of me when she started to jump. Thank all the benevolent gods and goddess that Faith was there in time.

Looking forward to more. Have fun with the guitar. My hands are big too, but I loved playing. Those calluses are bitch though. Makes doing simple things such as running your fingers over your clothes feel funky.

--->Susan

[Safuega]

Mary:

I read the update the day it was posted, but since you left me with my heart in my throat, I had to take a moment! So I did, and the moment turned into days. You'd think that being on vacation would actually mean having time to do the fun stuff, but noooo!

Anyway, rant aside the update was incredible. Mary, your writing and story telling skills are astounding. You are magnificent. I knew halfway through the first part of the update that Willow was under something because she is not usually that venomous and unforgiving. I also knew that you would not really harm Willow or Tara, but I still sat at the edge of my seat and my heart was beating fast as I read Willow going through the motions to kill herself. She was her usual methodical self down to the calculation of the length of rope needed to have her neck snap after she jumped. It was strangely fascinating to see her go through these motions with a modicum of rationality while she was obviously acting so irrationally. Goose bumps, you gave me goose bumps!

I also liked how you debunked the 'I would know if something is wrong with you' theory that Tara and Willow clung to as their safety net. This thing struck so quickly that neither Tara nor Willow saw it coming. In a way, reading about Willow's descent in this update was like reading about a person's descent into Schizophrenia. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how the disease seems to strike out of the blue and before the person knows it reality has slipped from that person's grasp. Your description of Willow's sleepiness, slow movements, and watching events unfold before her were perfect to show Willow's alienated state.

Totally liked that the big bad preyed on Willow's fears and insecurities first. Not liked it because Willow suffered but because it makes so much sense that I'm mad at myself for not having seen it earlier. Plus, this being a W/T fic it would not do not to have them in peril so as to spare us kittens enormous amounts of angst, right?

Finally, I'm really happy that it was Faith that rescued Willow. I think it will help ease the hostility that she is currently facing from the Scoobs.

Okay, I'm done. Thanks for sharing such an incredible and wonderful story.

Safuega

[Vampivy]

Hey Mary, it's great to have you back. Its been too long. I hope to find the time soon to play catch-up with As Time Goes By so I can leave some proper FB. I just wanted to drop by and say hi and welcome back.

Patty

[GayNow]

Mary

I've finished Gods Served and Abandoned (and I left feedback in the completed archives for you), so I can move on to this story now. I'll be working on it this weekend. I'll be back in a few days with specific feedback for you.

Carleen

[AntigoneUnbound]

Hello all. As ever, I'm just lovin' the feedback...

The next update is about 85% finished and I'd anticipated finishing it tonight (Friday) but I got a last-minute invitation to go to the beach. Yea--the beach! With the cool water and the breeze and the cool water and the cool water... (It's about 93 here today, with ungodly humidity.) So--update Sunday night!

Susan: Ah, nice catch on the "GS&A" mention--but no, it was just a little moment from Giles, trying to get them all back on track. Thanks for the kind words on this story. And yeah, I'm trying to build up the calluses, but damn...

Safuega: Wow--your words are some of the best I could read, b/c I knew that a lot of kittens would guess it was Willow, and I knew you knew I wouldn't actually let her die. So it feels really, really good to me to know that it came off well. Thank you!

And you're right: everyone's been assuming that the closeness of their connections will keep them safe, but here we see that it "bites" you, causes a bit of inflammation, and then kills you. This will be important for them to know. Fantastic parallel to schizophrenia, by the way. Things feel a little tweaky, and then there's a break (of the bad kind) and the person is just gone.

You're right, too, about the impact of Faith as rescuer. This will score her some big points with the gang.

Thanks for following this story and taking the time to send in such great feedback, Safuega. You rock!

Patty!! Hey girl! So good to see you! Thanks for the welcome, and I hope you like the story.

Carleen: I checked out your "GS&A" feedback--girl, you have a very keen eye and a very kind heart. I'm sending you a private e-mail, commenting on your comments. Trust me, though--as someone who's immensely enjoying "Coming Back," you're a great storyteller yourself! Thank you so much.

OK, kids--have a great weekend, and I'll see you Sunday night, after I return from the cool waters.
Mary

[Foomatic]

Hello . . . I'm not the best at giving extensive feedback, but I just had to let you know how much I've enjoyed this fic and other fics you have written. GS&A was one of the first fics I read when I started lurking around the board, and I loved it. This one is no different. I love how you've stayed true to each of the characters, and your dialogue is unbelievable witty, funny, . Your plot twists are so gripping in an "oh-my-god-my-house-is-burning-down-but-I-have-to-finish-this-update" kind of way. You have a wonderful way with words, and I'm glad that you're back and finishing this story.

So stopping short of bowing down and throwing rose petals at your feet, I eagerly await your next update.