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Creative help thread - Ask a question! Read the first Post!

This forum is for our fic authors to make their works-in-progress available for community beta-ing, from the initial ideas stage to the draft stage.

Re: Some More Questions

Postby Katharyn » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:11 pm

Zahir,



Just to weigh in on the Faith question, yeah I think that Willow did like her at the time - though she might have been a little caught up in the whole Xander enthusiasm. Also there is "She's a slayer and we know slayers are good thing" but I would say that she liked her.



The line when she has been captured by the Mayor and Faith taunts her suggests that Faith had a chance to be friends...



*Realising Faith is from Boston requires rewrites to fic...GRRR*





See this thing is helping us already.



Katharyn

---------

You hear that baby?



Katharyn
 


Re: Some More Questions

Postby tommo » Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:39 pm

I think Willow wanted to be friends with Faith, certainly she seemed really taken with her in Faith, Hope and Trick. But the turning point occurred when Faith began to take Buffy away from Willow in the best friend stakes. I think Willow felt pushed out because Faith made so much of the Slayer connection, and of course, Willow being Willow, felt not only inadequate, but also excluded from that specialness. Story of her life eh? Poor Willow.


----------
No metaphors...just fucking.

tommo
 


2 ?'s

Postby Iamyouknowyours » Wed Apr 17, 2002 11:33 am

Why does my avatar only occationally appear. And why do my posts sometimes never appear (about half the time all I get is blank blue, although the board said I was the last posted). Has my computer gone wonky, am I doing something wrong, or is it all a part of the bugs of a brand-spankin' new board?

Thanks

:Willow and :Tara = true love

Iamyouknowyours
 


zahir

Postby Rane018 » Wed Apr 17, 2002 11:45 am

hey love! re: justine and her sister. maybe asking that at the angel thread of the kitten or going to B&C's Angel spoiler forum may give you the answer to that. I'd answer that if i knew, but I hardly pay attention anymore on Angel.



edited to add: PS, regarding Anne... she was in two buffy eps right? i dont know if they said her name in the first one she was in with the bloke from roswell but maybe in *anne* they did. you should chek out the transcripts or shooting scripts for those eps. personally i dont listen much about other characters that are not W/T. hehe...

Edited by: Rane018 at: 4/17/02 10:49:07 am
Rane018
 


Fic quessie

Postby Little M » Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:34 pm

Ok yesterday I've started writing my first fanfic (yay me ;) ) and ehm I would like to know what it is you put in the beginning.......like disclaimer and rating etc.......

Can someone tell me which things I have to include?



Mir

----------------------

'I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad..it's depressing' - Tara

Little M
 


disclaimers and such...

Postby Rane018 » Wed Apr 17, 2002 12:43 pm

adrienne has this on her site extraflamey.com:



Title of the story: if it is a continuing story, please note the chapter... example 2/8

• Author name or Pseudonym:

• Email address: unless you do not want it listed

• Website: if you have one and would like it posted with your story

• Feedback: if you want any that is.

• Distribution: a listing of who/where you would like your story archived

• Spoilers: remember to put this on any story that might spoil those who haven't seen episodes yet (particularly important when dealing with W/T as some countries haven't shown all of Season 4 yet)

• Rating: example PG, NC-17, etc.

• Pairing: W/T obviously, but if others are involved in the story, such as B/X, please include those as well

• Disclaimer: If you want to put one on... long or short, your choice

• Summary: 2-3 sentence summary of the story

• Note: again, if you want to add a note go ahead.



i think we can use the same guidelines right? I'm sure this is answered in the FAQ too. or not. need to re-read that again. hehe. ;)

Rane018
 


Writing a Buffy episode

Postby sheila wt » Wed Apr 17, 2002 4:26 pm

I don't know where to post this, so I guessed this was the safest choice. Sorry if it's not...



In the new Buffy magazine there's a very interesting report about named "So you want to write a Buffy episode?"



Doug Petrie and Tim Minear (writers/producers) give the steps to create the perfect Buffy episode. It's really cool, if my scanner was wroking I'd add to my webpage so you all could see it. :)



I just wanted to transcribe one point that, I don't know why ;) , got my attention. It's one of the "Essential elements to put that Buffy spin on your story":



"Break-ups: Always do these the hardest way you can - and bust up the relationship that has the biggest emotional wallop. Angel comes back to Buffy just when she has to kill him to save the world. Tara catches Willow putting yet another spell on her."



Based on the last example, I honestly think I could care less about these rules... :b






Sheila

...................................................................


Willow: "If you felt lost and alone? Where would you go?"

Tara:"To you."

sheila wt
 


20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby Zahir al Daoud » Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:23 pm

Hi all. I've been fiddling with this list for a while. So here's what I've put together. Let me know what you think!



1. Adverbs are not your friend.

2. Neither are pronouns, not really.

3. Stories that never surprise the writer are probably not really alive.

4. Challenge assumptions, especially your own.

5. Learn to type.

6. "Said" is a good word. Use it.

7. Narrators--good ones, anyway--tend to call each character one thing. Unless the Narrator is Russian.

8. Try to avoid the passive voice. And infinitives.

9. If you don't care, your audience won't.

10. Don't answer all the questions.

11. Rhythm is vital. Vital!

12. Comprehend nuance. Better yet, understand it.

13. A good Beta is worth twice her weight in moon rocks.

14. First drafts can usually lose one word in ten.

15. You cannot please everyone, and shouldn't try.

16. Master the past tense.

17. Collaboration is like unto marriage. Treat it accordingly.

18. Stereotypes are useful (but usually mis-used).

19. Be ruthless with your text.

20. Never defend your work.



"O Let my name be in the Book of Love! If it be there I care not of that other Book above. Strike it out! Or write it in anew, but Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Kayam

Zahir al Daoud
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby Katharyn » Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:15 pm

That Zahir is inspired... says I worrying about which I let myself down on.



Every word is true kittens... make that list your new bible.



Katharyn



---------------

You hear that baby?



Katharyn
 


Thanx

Postby Little M » Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:58 am

Thanx Rane018!!!! *goes back to writing her fic*

----------------------

'I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad..it's depressing' - Tara

Little M
 


Re: Fanfic help thread - Ask a question!

Postby DarkWiccan » Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:33 am

Hey, new here... is there a limit to the number of fics one can post at a time? Like, I have another fic that I want to post, but, I already have one up on the board... is it okay to have two on the board at the same time?



Thanks and Cheers

DarkWiccan

DarkWiccan
 


Re: Fanfic help thread - Ask a question!

Postby AutumnT » Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:35 pm

There's no rule about the number. Just that they need to be W/T fics.

Autumn

-----------

Buffy: I could wrestle naked in grease for a living and still be cleaner than after a shift at the Doublemeat.

Willow: Plus, I'd visit you at work every single day. --- "Normal Again" shooting script

AutumnT
 


Re: Fanfic help thread - Ask a question!

Postby tommo » Thu Apr 18, 2002 6:02 pm

Yep, I think lately there's been some concern over the content of some fics. Definitely W/T, with no dubious "others" in there. ;)



But then, I think that's in the FAQ, isn't it? :rolleyes


----------
No metaphors...just fucking.

tommo
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby fell » Thu Apr 18, 2002 10:30 pm

Originally posted by Zahir al Daoud:

Quote:
5. Learn to type.


I would amend that to: Learn to spell. A fic with many spelling, usage and punctuation errors isn't finished, not to mention that it reflects poorly on the writer.



Quote:
14. First drafts can usually lose one word in ten.


In my experience as both a writer and an English teacher I've observed that many first drafts can stand to lose five words in ten.



Tthese suggestions are good ones. For a hilarious example of the overuse of adverbs and all around purple prose check out:



www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/SF-Archives/Misc/Eye_Of_The_Argon

fell
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby tommo » Fri Apr 19, 2002 12:43 am

Oh god fell. My eyes...my poor eyes... ;)



I think another good point would be to get yourself a good beta reader. I know that people have posted in the beta reading thread, and I'm a big fan of betas. They're often the difference between good fic and GREAT fic.



How do you tell if your beta's any good? Ask 'em what they've done before and go read it. Or, if you see a story that you think is written exceptionally well, ask that writer who their beta is. Usually turns out that a really good fanfic has a really good beta reader.


----------
No metaphors...just fucking.

tommo
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby xita » Fri Apr 19, 2002 1:00 am

All parts of one fic should be in one thread. Separate stories or sequels can be in different threads. So an author can definitely have more than one thread. All poetry should be in one thread :)

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Everything is turning out so dark..."

"No, it's okay. Lost is good. Willow and I always know how to find each other!"

xita
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby AutumnT » Fri Apr 19, 2002 1:15 am

Quote:
I think another good point would be to get yourself a good beta reader.
I don't really write fic, but I read a hell of a lot of it and this is the best advice anyone could get. And for God's sake at least run a spell checker. This board even comes with one. Nothing pulls me out of a story and makes me think the author does not care enough about their own work for me to care than terrible spelling errors. Beta readers, good ones are the best. A good one will be honest and tell you what doesn't work as well. And that's important too.



To be honest this is one of the few fandoms I've been involved in where almost all fic is posted as a work in progress rather than finished. So often it seems there is a big brouhaha to get the next part out. I've been on that band wagon myself. But better to let them wait for something well done than rush yourself under pressure to post.



So, that's all my unsolicited advice.

Autumn

-----------

Buffy: I could wrestle naked in grease for a living and still be cleaner than after a shift at the Doublemeat.

Willow: Plus, I'd visit you at work every single day. --- "Normal Again" shooting script

AutumnT
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby fell » Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:48 am

Originally posted by Tommo:
Quote:
I think another good point would be to get yourself a good beta reader.... Usually turns out that a really good fanfic has a really good beta reader.




This is so true. Look for someone whose work you like and who seems to have at least as good a grasp of the basics as you do. If you're new to writing look for a beta who has some technical know-how. No matter how talented you are, to become good at it

writing needs to be studied and practiced just like music or cooking or architecture. There are a number of people posting here with loads of talent (like the fore-mentioned Tommo, for instance) and excellent technical skills. (Form, usage, pacing, vocabulary, etc.) But do them and yourself a favor- don't just fire off a first draft. Put some effort into your work before you ask for help or feedback.



A good beta reader shouldn't be counted on to fix your spelling or to just tell you how much she loves your story. She should offer actual helpful, critical advice, and suggestions on direction when you get stuck or on ways to improve your writing. It always amazes me when a writer starts off with effusive thanks to a beta reader then I begin reading the story and find it's a mess. I can only assume that the blind are leading the blind.



A lot of inexperienced writers write their first fic as a screenplay. The problem with this should be obvious: since it isn't going to be staged or filmed all the missing parts- the action, facial expressions, the characters' thoughts and emotions, the sets and settings, etc. - are forever going to be missing. A screenplay isn't a story, it's half a story. It's just dialog without any context. (It's an okay way to write a first draft; just don't leave it that way.)



Screenwriting is a very specialized craft. Stories written for publication (as opposed to production) are NEVER written this way. It's kind of like trying to prepare an entire meal using nothing but asparagus. It's hard enough to write a good story without trying to do it standing on your head and blindfolded.



Keep it simple: Write in the third person, in simple past tense. Stick with either one person's point of view (per chapter, anyway), describing all their feelings and reactions, or use an omniscient POV, where you can be inside anyone's head.



There's a basic formula for a short story called Conflict, Complication, Climax. Every Buffy ep is built on this basic pattern:



1. Start with a conflict- a problem or mystery or foe to deal with.

2. Things get more complicated, often through unintended consequences of the actions of the protagonists.

3. Events build to a climax and the conflict is resolved.



No one cares what happens after the problem is solved (unless you're writing smut, in which case you're on your own). Even lengthy novels usually end within a page or two of the final climactic moment.



Good stories always relate the action and its resolution- the plot- to the main character's emotional journey. Typically the resolution involves an epiphany. Every episode of BtVS uses this storytelling formula. The conflict is a metaphor for Buffy's (or whoever) emotional struggle. It works because it makes us care about the characters and their problems.



Oh, and while I'm at it, a word from the homonynm nazi:

They're taking their places over there.

Who's going to find out whose turn it is?

It's your turn next if you're ready.

I'm ready togo too, if you two are.

Edited by: fell at: 4/19/02 10:01:36 am
fell
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby Princess Willow » Fri Apr 19, 2002 3:33 pm

I recently started writing my first fic and I wanted to post it here when I am done but I have a question about content that I can't seem to find anywhere else.



This fic is a speculation on the end of the season, based on some various spoilers that are floating around. Are we allowed to post such fics on this board? If in the subject line I give spoiler warnings and at the beginning of the posts?



Thanks!



PW

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I don't get wild. Wild on me equals spaz.

Princess Willow
 


princess

Postby Rane018 » Fri Apr 19, 2002 3:44 pm

good job. :) yes, give proper warning on the subject line and in the fic disclaimers as well.





Rane018
 


Re: princess

Postby Kalita » Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:48 pm

Another line from the homonym nazi:



It's a wise dog that scratches its own fleas.

"And the fun just keeps on leavin'."

Kalita
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby Kamil » Sat Apr 20, 2002 10:37 pm

I'd say, based on my great good fortune of being exposed to some of the best writers in all of fanfiction, that these rules make a good start; certainly having a good alpha that you can bounce ideas off of (as well as conveniently blame, if blame proves necessary *eg*) is a tremendous help. Betas are invaluable. They'll tell you what you don't want to hear, but what you need to hear; they'll mention when your characters seem to have suddenly developed three arms, or have items of clothing that just vanish into thin air with no explanation as to where they went or how they got there. Trust me, I know about these things. :lol



The best advice I have ever received in regard to writing sex scenes is to make it as kinesthetic an experience as possible for your readers. Have your POV character pour out her feelings -- what her emotions are telling her right now; what her partner smells like and tastes like; the different sounds they make when they're together; and whether she glows with arousal or seems to just melt into a liquid puddle of desire. And oh yeah, make sure they talk to each other like real people talk; if you can't imagine yourself having the conversation you're writing while screwing someone -- probably no one else will be able to imagine it either. ;)



Another thing to watch out for is to make sure that your POV character stays consistent throughout each scene. Writing third person omniscient is pretty distancing if you're trying to convey the sense of intimacy involved in writing erotica. For me, at least. Third limited allows you to get so much more deeply inside your POV character's head and emotions, and lay them out there for everyone to experience. That way your readers get to share that good down low tickle, right along with your gals.



Then we have Peeves. *grrr* My single biggest peeve (besides ignoring the rules of basic grammar, spelling, and punctuation) is an author that uses epithets, say more than once every twenty pages or so, and then only if it's absolutely necessary. The characters have names -- it's not a bad to use them. Often. Always. And think about it, when you're talking to someone, or making out with them, how often do your thought processes run along the lines of "the blonde girl's touch melted the redhead from the inside out, changing her into a creature of pure need and desire"? Probably no more often than I do :) , so why do writers assume that a characters' internal dialogue would be so different from their own?



I know that masculine/feminine pronoun hell can be just that -- but just like the fear of said, readers will just skim over the character's names w/o stopping to think about the fact that they've seen them three times in the last five sentences. Each. :)



Oh well, stopping now; this actually wasn't why I popped in over here. :) Is there a list somewhere of all of the eps that Tara's been in since she was introduced in "Hush"? I'm in the mood to commit W/T vidding and it'd be a tremendous help if I had an ep list for Lum and I to refer to when we're trying to remember where a particular clip came from.



Thanks ever so, and 'scuese the brief commentary -- but I love me some juicy lit/crit fanfic talk, and it's ever so hard for me to pass up a good discussion about it. :lol






Kamil


Gunn: "I mean, who has time for love when you're out there doing it with the
demons...and didn't that just come out sad and wrong."

"Heartthrob" Angel

Edited by: Kamil  at: 4/21/02 3:18:07 pm
Kamil
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby tommo » Sun Apr 21, 2002 12:20 am

Kamil, I think it would be easier if you shortened your ideas into point form.



1) Get a beta reader



2) Try to focus on the five senses when using description to make it more realistic for your audience



3) Use the thought processes of your character to enhance the depiction you've already created


----------
No metaphors...just fucking.

tommo
 


Re: 20 Rules of Thumb For Writers

Postby Rally » Sun Apr 21, 2002 1:36 am

Concentrate on what you are working towards, not some other fic / universe... This is Willow and Tara and no one else.

------------


"Everyone's getting spanked but my bitter self."

Rally
 


Question about US Tv coverage of UK sports...

Postby Lucy Moore » Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:05 am

Don't worry,this is for a W/T fic...



Would Giles (or Spike) be able to see UK League soccer or,specifically,Rugby matches.Either internationals like the Six Nations or even Rugby League matches at the weekend?



Thanx,lol Lucy

fiat justitia,ruat caelum

Lucy Moore
 


Re: Question about US Tv coverage of UK sports...

Postby mariacomet » Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:29 am

Just a guess...



With cable and satellite hookups for t.v, I would say Giles could likely get anything he wanted on t.v. - assuming that he wanted to pay to have all those nifty channels. As a NORM, no rugby wouldn't be broadcast on the main networks.



And there;s always the possibility of someone overseas taping matches and sending them..

mariacomet
 


Question

Postby tommo » Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:45 pm

Excuse me for being a stickler for actually using English when I type. I know, crazy notions that I have, I mean, just crazy!



But kamil, I would dearly love to know what you meant in several parts of your post. Well, actually all of it but I've emailed you about that...



YMMV?



MST'ed?



IMCO?



I'm sure you were saying something really insightful but forgive me, I just couldn't understand it...



Thank you so very much in advance of what I'm sure will be lengthy and detailed explanations, only underlining my abject stupidity when it comes to fic writing and the internet.



:)


----------
No metaphors...just fucking.

tommo
 


Re: Question

Postby Kamil » Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:15 pm

Quote:


YMMV?



MST'ed?



IMCO?




YMMV -- Your mileage may vary.



MST'ed -- wherein a poorly written piece of fanfiction is submitted to a process known as MST'ing. Based on the old show "Mystery Science Theatre" -- where the shows' characters would watch awful movies and make appropriate jokes. When done to fanfic it's usually done on private lists, to spare the feelings of the person who committed the fiction being MST'ed. Although last time I checked, there were two MST'ing Usenet groups. The folks who post there *usually* ask for the writer's permission to MST their story. Usually.



IMCO -- In my considered opinion. Can also be written as IMGLO (in my God/ess like opinion) IMHO (in my humble opinion) IMNSHO (in my not so humble opinion), etc.



More and more I'm beginning to feel like I fell into that "All your base belong to us" place -- the Kitten seems to be a place untouched by even the longest lived and most common of fannish terms and protocols. The all your base thing is too OT to explain -- and is much funnier when you read it anyway. Google the term if you're interested; it's a pretty amusing little tale.



Anyway, sorry for any and all offense -- my humble apologies.




Kamil


Gunn: "I mean, who has time for love when you're out there doing it with the
demons...and didn't that just come out sad and wrong."

"Heartthrob" Angel

Edited by: Kamil  at: 4/21/02 3:20:37 pm
Kamil
 


Re: Question

Postby AutumnT » Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:17 pm

Quote:
Goggle the term if you're interested; it's a pretty amusing little tale.


Goggle the term? OK, now I'm net savvy and even I don't get that one. I even got the base joke though I'm not sure it really applies here. Did you mean Google? Or am I not as cool as I think I am?

Autumn

-----------

Buffy: I could wrestle naked in grease for a living and still be cleaner than after a shift at the Doublemeat.

Willow: Plus, I'd visit you at work every single day. --- "Normal Again" shooting script

Edited by: AutumnT  at: 4/21/02 3:21:55 pm
AutumnT
 


Re: Question

Postby Kamil » Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:26 pm

Quote:
Goggle the term if you're in




Sad, yes I know. LOL Already fixed it. That'll teach me to just spellcheck something w/o rereading it.



Goggle: The All Porn/All the Time Search Engine of the Future. It allows its users to goggle their little eyes out at all the lovely nekkidness on the internet. *weg*


Kamil


Gunn: "I mean, who has time for love when you're out there doing it with the
demons...and didn't that just come out sad and wrong."

"Heartthrob" Angel

Kamil
 

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