Defending Willow

[tweetie_madonna]

please note ...spoilerish stuff up to Doublemeat Palace in this defending willow rant...
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I've been seeing people put down this season on some boards, especialy the latest episodes and I'm sorry, but I just have to vent some stuff I've been mulling over. I was gonna look for the Wrecked discussion thread again, but I think what I have to say is more general.
Many people seem annoyed at Willow's addiction storyline, saying how it's a cop out from the possible big bad power hungry Will. Dissing 'Wrecked' because of it's heavy drug metaphor, saying how it's preachy (drugs are bad, m'kay?). But I think the episode is really powerful and I'm hoping (perhaps vainly) that people will see this when they realise that the magic isn't a metaphor for drugs or power as much as it is for escapism.

I know this probably appears to come out of nowhere and I hope the moderators are a litte forgiving in me bringing up the subject again, but I was reading the Marti Noxon interview and it stirred up a buncha thoughts. In 'Smashed' Will was feeling vulnerable and Amy baited her into going out and causing trouble with magic (Willow not so much trying to be all-powerful, but rather a 'drowning of sorrows', she was drinking alcohol too, and her smiles at trouble were more aimed at forgetting her problems than wanting to be bad, in my ranting opinion anyway). At the beginning of 'Wrecked', her magic use is found out and Tara effectively walks out on her, AGAIN, both times her fault. Ego and self-esteem at an extreme low, Amy baits her again, this time into visiting Rack. Willow at this point is extremely fragile and Rack closes in and takes advantage, metaphoric rape , violation, and it's Will's mental state that is "wrecked". Truth is, she was way screwed up emotionally before she even left the house with Dawn. People complain about the immediacy of the drug addiction and seem to gloss over the whole violated state. THAT explains her irrational actions more than any drug craving, but combine it with the irony that Rack's magic makes the world and all it's troubles disappear, so she returns, and the story is very tragic and sad. Is that why people don't like it? because it's sad ? people are saying it's bad. totally different, it's not bad, and it frustrates me when people say so. it means they're not understanding Willow at all.

My thoughts are all over the place so please bear with me, but going back to escapism for a moment, that is my reasoning behind all of Willow's actions. The reading of magic in this way keeps the show consistant (something people have been complaining about recently) and explains more than the literal translation of drug use (extremely bad when regarding the early development of Will/Tara's relationship) or the need for power and control (also very messy with holes everywhere). The whole 'Willow wants power' thing I never really bought into, remember, this is the girl who had to be TOLD she was powerful by Buffy in 'The Gift', like the thought had never occured to her. She also had to lead the scoobies after Buffy died, taking cues from Giles, but she was the one being strong and taking care of things, because she HAD to, not because she wanted all that power, pfft. She was the driving force behind bring Buffy back, because that's what everyone wanted but noone but her was strong enough to do, not just in terms of ability, but emotionally, she had to hold it together. It's easy to see how here, a real problem with magic addiction would've formed as a venting system, a way to escape responsiblity. Remembering 'oh, grow up' being the theme, will's having to grow and face her responsibilities without the aid of magic. Learning the hard way. And by turning Amy away at the end of 'Doublemeat Palace', I hope it makes everything clearer to her as to what went wrong in how she handled Tara.

Going back a little further, escapism is closely linked with romanticism, and this is how the relationship first formed. Remember back in season 4, when willow just wanted tara to be 'hers', how the whole world would disappear when they were together, how every other scene felt like a rude interruption into their private universe? It's not the magic that is bad, it's the reasoning behind it. Willow doesn't really need it. It's being exploited, she didn't even think about the forget spell in 'All the way', she did it impulsively, let's face it, she was getting into the same bed as tara, chances are they probably would've made up during the night, she didn't even have to use the spell, that's what's so sad about it. and...
That's why she has to stop completely, I don't think it rules out future use of magic entirely, but Willow has to learn how to live as (just) a human being (like buffy does, swallowing pride) before she can again find her role in the gang and her life.

I had a whole lot more to say, mostly about how even the drug metaphor was a metaphor for something else, but yadda yadda yadda, I think that's enough for now, cool mods, please feel free to move this if it needs to move...but, say now, waddaya think?

[Dr.G]

I understand how you feel, and I agree with most of what you say. The main reason I love this board so much, aside from it feeding my unconditional love for the characters of W/T and their relationship, is that you actually do not need to defend Willow (or Tara or W/T) here. However we may feel about this season or certain story arcs, here, loving Willow is not even a question, despite the mistakes she may have made or will make in the future, just look at the wednesday daily thread.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited January 31, 2002).]

[Kirk B]

You know, that's a good point.

I never really thought about it that way. If what you're saying is right, it doesn't put a dark pallor on the entire history of magic in the show, and it doesn't seem to ruin the possibility of Willow and Tara getting back together in the future.

HOWEVER, there is one thing I have to point out,which seems to lean toward the 'magic as drugs' period metamorph. While looking for Willow and Dawn, in WRECKED, Buffy comes home to find Amy tearing the house apart and stealing spices. SPICES. She's hooked on the power, the magick, and not in an emotionally fragile kind of way.

Don't get me wrong. I think both Willow and Amy ARE emotionally fragile, and I still do agree with a lot of what you said. But what we actually saw on the show (not so much what we perceive, the actual on-screen stuff) doesn't seem to me to indicate anything but magick and drugs.

Still, I like your idea. I hope you're right and that I'm seeing things wrong. 'cause what you propose is not only plausible, it fits in with the 'grow up' theme Joss said he wants for this season.

Unfortunately, what I keep seeing is Willow's addiction is going to have to keep her from seeing Tara in much the same way as Amy. Tara is not a bad influence, but she is still magical (in more ways that one ), and that's not something Willow wants or needs to be around.

Although, on the other hand, I think Tara actually IS what Willow needs most in her life not. Not the magic, the love. You know, what we all miss the most.

------------------
Kirk B

"A Willow is a tree that weeps, but Tara is firmer and will hold.”

Hear that baby? You're my always.

I got so lost.
I found you. I will always find you.

[This message has been edited by Kirk B (edited January 31, 2002).]

IP: Logged

dusty
Floating Rose


Posts: 34
Registered: Oct 2001 posted January 31, 2002 12:27               

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quote:

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Originally posted by tweetie_madonna:
But I think the episode is really powerful and I'm hoping (perhaps vainly) that people will see this when they realise that the magic isn't a metaphor for drugs or power as much as it is for escapism.

---

I might be able to buy that if the metaphor was less subtle, but it's so incredibly overhanded. In fact, it's not even a metaphor anymore, because they are portraying magic as an actual physical drug. The ridiculous scene in which Willow has withdrawal symptoms makes that clear. I am so incredibly disappointed in this storyline. I am trusting that Joss will be able to turn it around eventually, but right now every scene with Willow feels like an after-school-special. This storyline could have gone places. Willow was flirting with some pretty dark forces, and they could have done something really interesting with the power aspects of magic, but instead it was suddenly turned into a tale of physical addiction.

[This message has been edited by dusty (edited January 31, 2002).]

IP: Logged

EricAlan69
Doll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 63
Registered: Jan 2002 posted January 31, 2002 12:46               

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I agree totally with tweetie_madonna here, and I back that up with the fact that I am a recovering alcoholic, and what your are saying in the beginning is a dead-on description of the reason why people like me become addicted to substances anyway- emotional issues regarding perceived self-worth. There are plenty of people who can drink, and even drink daily, without ever becoming an alcoholic; they do not have the disease of addiction, which is both an emotional and physical disease (many will also say a spiritual one, too, but....).

And I've found myself defending not Willow, per se, as much as defending Joss and Marti about how the whole thing is handled, so I understand your frustration.

*However*, if we go by the latest interview with Marti Noxon, the way she refers to Willow's problem is almost in black and white terms: as an addict who must maintain recovery- so, if Willow does indeed overcome this addiction on the show, she will almost undoubtedly never do magic again.

I think that problem some of us have with this is that magic use on BtVS has been used as a metaphor not only for drugs/alcohol, but many things, not the least of which is the original bonding (physically and spirtiually) between Willow and Tara throughout their relationship. It's never explicity stated that magic use alluding to W/T -love and the selfish magic use that gets Willow off are two entirely different things, which is probably the only complaint I have with the writers this season.

To someone not fully understanding the complexities of addiction, or with the multiple subtexts running throughout the show (i.e., the casual viewer, not the full-on, bugged-out BtVS freak like us! :-), you can see why they'd get tired of what, on the surface, seems like a very trite 'drugs are bad' message. You have to really dig a lot deeper to get it.

love and witchiechix,

e.

IP: Logged

EvilAnya
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 205
Registered: Oct 2000 posted January 31, 2002 12:47               

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I don't think people are bashing Willow, just the storyline. I will never hate Willow no matter what she does, but the "magick is drugs" metaphor kind of bothers me. I agree that it's more of an issue with abuse of power, but they have kind of been bashing us over the head with the parallels to drug addiction. It does reek of afterschool special-ness. I would rather see Willow deal with her power issues free of the drug metaphors.

IP: Logged

dusty
Floating Rose


Posts: 34
Registered: Oct 2001 posted January 31, 2002 13:07               

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EvilAnya--I agree. I would never ever bash Willow, but I have a big problem with what the writers are doing right now. Really though, it's because I expect so much from these writers, because they are generally so brilliant, that I am maybe a little overly-critical about a storyline that I think doesn't measure up to what they are capable of.

IP: Logged

xita
Ms. Moderator
Fantastico


Posts: 6702
Registered: Sep 2000 posted January 31, 2002 22:42               

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It's an opinion, I am comfortable with the story and don't find it any sillier than other things. Besides it isn't over and I loved wrecked.

There are a lot of types of addiction and the source of Willow's addiction seems to be her problem. Abuse of power also stems from insecurity. That is the issue that needs to be addressed and I think the writers are very aware of this. The reason I felt Wrecked was the beginning of the change was that Willow admitted the source of her problem, that geek girl she thinks no one could love.

A common complaint I have heard is that the plot came out of nowhere. Well watch season 5 and check out the nosebleeds. This was set up a while ago.

IP: Logged

IP: LoggeddustyFloating Rose


Posts: 34
Registered: Oct 2001 posted January 31, 2002 12:27               

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by tweetie_madonna:
But I think the episode is really powerful and I'm hoping (perhaps vainly) that people will see this when they realise that the magic isn't a metaphor for drugs or power as much as it is for escapism.

---

I might be able to buy that if the metaphor was less subtle, but it's so incredibly overhanded. In fact, it's not even a metaphor anymore, because they are portraying magic as an actual physical drug. The ridiculous scene in which Willow has withdrawal symptoms makes that clear. I am so incredibly disappointed in this storyline. I am trusting that Joss will be able to turn it around eventually, but right now every scene with Willow feels like an after-school-special. This storyline could have gone places. Willow was flirting with some pretty dark forces, and they could have done something really interesting with the power aspects of magic, but instead it was suddenly turned into a tale of physical addiction.

[This message has been edited by dusty (edited January 31, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted January 31, 2002 12:27               

quote:

---

Originally posted by tweetie_madonna:
But I think the episode is really powerful and I'm hoping (perhaps vainly) that people will see this when they realise that the magic isn't a metaphor for drugs or power as much as it is for escapism.

---

I might be able to buy that if the metaphor was less subtle, but it's so incredibly overhanded. In fact, it's not even a metaphor anymore, because they are portraying magic as an actual physical drug. The ridiculous scene in which Willow has withdrawal symptoms makes that clear. I am so incredibly disappointed in this storyline. I am trusting that Joss will be able to turn it around eventually, but right now every scene with Willow feels like an after-school-special. This storyline could have gone places. Willow was flirting with some pretty dark forces, and they could have done something really interesting with the power aspects of magic, but instead it was suddenly turned into a tale of physical addiction.

[This message has been edited by dusty (edited January 31, 2002).]quote:IP: LoggedEricAlan69Doll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 63
Registered: Jan 2002 posted January 31, 2002 12:46               

---

I agree totally with tweetie_madonna here, and I back that up with the fact that I am a recovering alcoholic, and what your are saying in the beginning is a dead-on description of the reason why people like me become addicted to substances anyway- emotional issues regarding perceived self-worth. There are plenty of people who can drink, and even drink daily, without ever becoming an alcoholic; they do not have the disease of addiction, which is both an emotional and physical disease (many will also say a spiritual one, too, but....).

And I've found myself defending not Willow, per se, as much as defending Joss and Marti about how the whole thing is handled, so I understand your frustration.

*However*, if we go by the latest interview with Marti Noxon, the way she refers to Willow's problem is almost in black and white terms: as an addict who must maintain recovery- so, if Willow does indeed overcome this addiction on the show, she will almost undoubtedly never do magic again.

I think that problem some of us have with this is that magic use on BtVS has been used as a metaphor not only for drugs/alcohol, but many things, not the least of which is the original bonding (physically and spirtiually) between Willow and Tara throughout their relationship. It's never explicity stated that magic use alluding to W/T -love and the selfish magic use that gets Willow off are two entirely different things, which is probably the only complaint I have with the writers this season.

To someone not fully understanding the complexities of addiction, or with the multiple subtexts running throughout the show (i.e., the casual viewer, not the full-on, bugged-out BtVS freak like us! :-), you can see why they'd get tired of what, on the surface, seems like a very trite 'drugs are bad' message. You have to really dig a lot deeper to get it.

love and witchiechix,

e.

IP: Logged

posted January 31, 2002 12:46                I agree totally with tweetie_madonna here, and I back that up with the fact that I am a recovering alcoholic, and what your are saying in the beginning is a dead-on description of the reason why people like me become addicted to substances anyway- emotional issues regarding perceived self-worth. There are plenty of people who can drink, and even drink daily, without ever becoming an alcoholic; they do not have the disease of addiction, which is both an emotional and physical disease (many will also say a spiritual one, too, but....).

And I've found myself defending not Willow, per se, as much as defending Joss and Marti about how the whole thing is handled, so I understand your frustration.

*However*, if we go by the latest interview with Marti Noxon, the way she refers to Willow's problem is almost in black and white terms: as an addict who must maintain recovery- so, if Willow does indeed overcome this addiction on the show, she will almost undoubtedly never do magic again.

I think that problem some of us have with this is that magic use on BtVS has been used as a metaphor not only for drugs/alcohol, but many things, not the least of which is the original bonding (physically and spirtiually) between Willow and Tara throughout their relationship. It's never explicity stated that magic use alluding to W/T -love and the selfish magic use that gets Willow off are two entirely different things, which is probably the only complaint I have with the writers this season.

To someone not fully understanding the complexities of addiction, or with the multiple subtexts running throughout the show (i.e., the casual viewer, not the full-on, bugged-out BtVS freak like us! :-), you can see why they'd get tired of what, on the surface, seems like a very trite 'drugs are bad' message. You have to really dig a lot deeper to get it.

love and witchiechix,

e.IP: LoggedEvilAnyaCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 205
Registered: Oct 2000 posted January 31, 2002 12:47               

---

I don't think people are bashing Willow, just the storyline. I will never hate Willow no matter what she does, but the "magick is drugs" metaphor kind of bothers me. I agree that it's more of an issue with abuse of power, but they have kind of been bashing us over the head with the parallels to drug addiction. It does reek of afterschool special-ness. I would rather see Willow deal with her power issues free of the drug metaphors.

IP: Logged

posted January 31, 2002 12:47                I don't think people are bashing Willow, just the storyline. I will never hate Willow no matter what she does, but the "magick is drugs" metaphor kind of bothers me. I agree that it's more of an issue with abuse of power, but they have kind of been bashing us over the head with the parallels to drug addiction. It does reek of afterschool special-ness. I would rather see Willow deal with her power issues free of the drug metaphors. IP: LoggeddustyFloating Rose


Posts: 34
Registered: Oct 2001 posted January 31, 2002 13:07               

---

EvilAnya--I agree. I would never ever bash Willow, but I have a big problem with what the writers are doing right now. Really though, it's because I expect so much from these writers, because they are generally so brilliant, that I am maybe a little overly-critical about a storyline that I think doesn't measure up to what they are capable of.

IP: Logged

posted January 31, 2002 13:07                EvilAnya--I agree. I would never ever bash Willow, but I have a big problem with what the writers are doing right now. Really though, it's because I expect so much from these writers, because they are generally so brilliant, that I am maybe a little overly-critical about a storyline that I think doesn't measure up to what they are capable of.IP: LoggedxitaMs. Moderator
Fantastico


Posts: 6702
Registered: Sep 2000Ms. Moderator
Fantastico posted January 31, 2002 22:42               

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It's an opinion, I am comfortable with the story and don't find it any sillier than other things. Besides it isn't over and I loved wrecked.

There are a lot of types of addiction and the source of Willow's addiction seems to be her problem. Abuse of power also stems from insecurity. That is the issue that needs to be addressed and I think the writers are very aware of this. The reason I felt Wrecked was the beginning of the change was that Willow admitted the source of her problem, that geek girl she thinks no one could love.

A common complaint I have heard is that the plot came out of nowhere. Well watch season 5 and check out the nosebleeds. This was set up a while ago.

IP: Logged

posted January 31, 2002 22:42                It's an opinion, I am comfortable with the story and don't find it any sillier than other things. Besides it isn't over and I loved wrecked.

There are a lot of types of addiction and the source of Willow's addiction seems to be her problem. Abuse of power also stems from insecurity. That is the issue that needs to be addressed and I think the writers are very aware of this. The reason I felt Wrecked was the beginning of the change was that Willow admitted the source of her problem, that geek girl she thinks no one could love.

A common complaint I have heard is that the plot came out of nowhere. Well watch season 5 and check out the nosebleeds. This was set up a while ago.

[dusty]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tweetie_madonna:
But I think the episode is really powerful and I'm hoping (perhaps vainly) that people will see this when they realise that the magic isn't a metaphor for drugs or power as much as it is for escapism.

---

I might be able to buy that if the metaphor was less subtle, but it's so incredibly overhanded. In fact, it's not even a metaphor anymore, because they are portraying magic as an actual physical drug. The ridiculous scene in which Willow has withdrawal symptoms makes that clear. I am so incredibly disappointed in this storyline. I am trusting that Joss will be able to turn it around eventually, but right now every scene with Willow feels like an after-school-special. This storyline could have gone places. Willow was flirting with some pretty dark forces, and they could have done something really interesting with the power aspects of magic, but instead it was suddenly turned into a tale of physical addiction.

[This message has been edited by dusty (edited January 31, 2002).]quote:

[EricAlan69]

I agree totally with tweetie_madonna here, and I back that up with the fact that I am a recovering alcoholic, and what your are saying in the beginning is a dead-on description of the reason why people like me become addicted to substances anyway- emotional issues regarding perceived self-worth. There are plenty of people who can drink, and even drink daily, without ever becoming an alcoholic; they do not have the disease of addiction, which is both an emotional and physical disease (many will also say a spiritual one, too, but....).

And I've found myself defending not Willow, per se, as much as defending Joss and Marti about how the whole thing is handled, so I understand your frustration.

*However*, if we go by the latest interview with Marti Noxon, the way she refers to Willow's problem is almost in black and white terms: as an addict who must maintain recovery- so, if Willow does indeed overcome this addiction on the show, she will almost undoubtedly never do magic again.

I think that problem some of us have with this is that magic use on BtVS has been used as a metaphor not only for drugs/alcohol, but many things, not the least of which is the original bonding (physically and spirtiually) between Willow and Tara throughout their relationship. It's never explicity stated that magic use alluding to W/T -love and the selfish magic use that gets Willow off are two entirely different things, which is probably the only complaint I have with the writers this season.

To someone not fully understanding the complexities of addiction, or with the multiple subtexts running throughout the show (i.e., the casual viewer, not the full-on, bugged-out BtVS freak like us! :-), you can see why they'd get tired of what, on the surface, seems like a very trite 'drugs are bad' message. You have to really dig a lot deeper to get it.

love and witchiechix,

e.

[EvilAnya]

I don't think people are bashing Willow, just the storyline. I will never hate Willow no matter what she does, but the "magick is drugs" metaphor kind of bothers me. I agree that it's more of an issue with abuse of power, but they have kind of been bashing us over the head with the parallels to drug addiction. It does reek of afterschool special-ness. I would rather see Willow deal with her power issues free of the drug metaphors.

[dusty]

EvilAnya--I agree. I would never ever bash Willow, but I have a big problem with what the writers are doing right now. Really though, it's because I expect so much from these writers, because they are generally so brilliant, that I am maybe a little overly-critical about a storyline that I think doesn't measure up to what they are capable of.

[xita]

It's an opinion, I am comfortable with the story and don't find it any sillier than other things. Besides it isn't over and I loved wrecked.

There are a lot of types of addiction and the source of Willow's addiction seems to be her problem. Abuse of power also stems from insecurity. That is the issue that needs to be addressed and I think the writers are very aware of this. The reason I felt Wrecked was the beginning of the change was that Willow admitted the source of her problem, that geek girl she thinks no one could love.

A common complaint I have heard is that the plot came out of nowhere. Well watch season 5 and check out the nosebleeds. This was set up a while ago.