Spoiler Space if you are unlucky like me and live in LA and don't want to be spoiled (ok, not me)
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Ahead.
start!
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Tara: Tripled? Like first money, then
money money money?
by xita » Tue Apr 17, 2001 12:31 am
Ahead.
start!
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Tara: Tripled? Like first money, then
money money money?
by Warduke* » Tue Apr 17, 2001 12:32 am
First, W/T moments…
- At the funeral, Willow was holding Tara’s hand and with her other hand was rubbing her arm, sweet scene and Tara leaning on Willow's shoulder was very sweet too.
- The bedroom scene where Willow is writing in her journal, as good as that scene is when you’re reading it, it’s soooo much better when you actually see it, when Tara lies down next to Willow, she plays with her sleeve and when Willow says “down to every last everything with you” she grabs Tara’s hand and the way they are looking at each other…ohhhhh…you will feel the love kittens.
- Willow was really nervous when Tara noticed the book was gone but you can see that she really didn’t mean any harm by what she did, I can see this becoming an argument in the future but not a really big fight.
I did like what Spike said to Xander and the way he said it and when Dawn was in the magic shop, Anya had a few funny lines 
The Buffy/Angel scenes were ok I guess, since I wasn’t watching the show back then when the whole B/A thing was happening, I’m not really connected to them as a couple but I guess B/A shippers will be happy 
Lastly I have to say that the last scene with Buffy and Dawn, when the silhouette passes in the window behind them and Buffy says “mommy” and goes to open the door and Dawn tears up the pic of Joyce and then Buffy opens the door and there’s nothing there…damn that was chilling, especially if you’ve read The Monkey’s Paw.
All and all, a good ep, oh btw, the line Willow says, “little boobs”, I found a cute smiley to go with it… 
*transplanted by someone.. he he he.
by Pixie-Muso » Tue Apr 17, 2001 12:41 am
[This message has been edited by Pixie-Muso (edited April 17, 2001).]
by Dr.G » Tue Apr 17, 2001 1:33 am
by Pixie-Muso » Tue Apr 17, 2001 1:40 am
by Warduke » Tue Apr 17, 2001 8:44 am
by april » Tue Apr 17, 2001 8:46 am
i'm so excited for 6 weeks of new eps. i can't believe we get a new ep today, and then more wildfeed spoilers on sunday! life is just way too good...
by tvsurfer » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:46 am
Page 12D
Critic's Corner
By Robert Bianco
* After a seven-week wait, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (WB, tonight at 8 ET/PT) returns with an original episode that follows the Summers' girls' divergent reactions to their mother's funeral -- and that offers a beautifully insightful lesson in loss and letting go. It's a somber, fitting companion to February's exceptional The Body episode about Joyce's death -- an episode so good that fans have launched a campaign to win the show and creator Joss Whedon an Emmy. It's long overdue -- as is this new episode.
by Nouvelle » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:02 pm
The T/W moments were sweet and understated. The bed scene was romantic. I think Aly and Amber are much more at ease with one another and their characters than ever before. The way they played with each others fingers. Sweet. Tara seemed to know a little to much on the resurrection spell. I wouldn't be surprised to hear she tried it first hand. That would make a good Halloween flashback episode. Not so sweet.
by tvsurfer » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:15 pm
Tara's mom and grandma were wicca's and she was raised in the "religion" so I'm not surprised that she has a "wicca moral code" where these kinds of life and death spells are not to be played with. I think her learning and repecting the wicca oaths could just as easily explain her reluctance to help dawn with the spell
as for dawn, I think doc has tricked her into offering her own life for joyces resurrection
doc had a tail and hummed peter and the wolf, if he has canine in him he could tell dawn was the key
Doc took a piece of dawns hair and he gave her a piece of paper with a spell to say to bring her mom back
Dawn says three times
OSIRIS GIVER OF DARKNESS TAKER OF LIFE GOD OF GODS ACCEPT MY OFFERING
BONE FLESH BREATH YOURS ETERNALLY
It sounds to me like doc has tricked dawn into offering her mortal self wrapper (bone flesh breath eternally) as a offering to osiris for the return of joyce
My theory now is that buffy is going to push dawn to find out about doc and the spell and the witches are going to be called in to help Dawn with her indebtedness to Osiris problem, which is all going to lead to tara finding out that not only did willow point dawn to the wicca history book but she lied to tara about the situation,
and I don't think we have seen the end of doc by a long shot
willow takes more of a pragmatic, approach to witchcraft, its there, you learn about it, control it and adapt/use it to solve problems. Pointing dawn to the magic history book was in line with willows learn /deal/adapt/overcome approach to dealing with life, hacking and magick.
Tara has had a life time of parental guidance and witchcraft is more a 'religion/calling' for her with rules and end zones and lines you don't cross.
I'm thinking willows pointing dawn in the direction of the magic book and then not coming clean with tara is probably going to percipitate
a fight between willow and tara.
by Dazey » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:31 pm
The scene with Giles listening to Cream was so beautiful and subtle...that's the sort of elegant writing that makes this show the best thing on TV.
The final scene with Buffy and Dawn was, I think, even more heart-rending than what we saw in The Body...say what you will about SMG, she's a damn fine actor.
As for Willow and Tara...well, I don't really want to think about where things are going, so I'll just say two words: sassy eggs. I just love the way Amber delivers that line...it's really dry, almost British, if that makes any sense. Thank god there was a little bit of humor in this ep.
And I don't know how this is possible, but Amber seems to get more beautiful with each ep. Or maybe I should say, "Okay, I keep thinking, 'She's the most beautiful person ever', and then she gets even beautifuller and completely resets the whole scale!"
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"Most of the time, you're either 'the girlfriend of' or 'the daughter of' or 'the new wife of.' With Buffy, she just is."--SMG
by Utena » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:45 pm
i liked angel's appearance more than i thought i would. i honestly thought id hate it, but when they took each others hand i just filled with "awww"-ness. Anything that comforts buffy is a-ok with me.
happy to see buffy and dawn are going to be much, much closer now. when they collapsed onto the ground i couldnt keep my tears in any longer ;.;
ill just have to keep replaying sassy boobs to make me smile =D
by Nouvelle » Tue Apr 17, 2001 10:59 pm
by Rane » Tue Apr 17, 2001 11:14 pm
i haven't read the shooting script yet, which i hope will me posted soon (corsses fingers), but that scene with tara, willow and dawn sucked. not the whole scene just the mention/transition to witchcraft. like when tara said, "we're witches, we know stuff." she could have simply talked about her understanding how dawn felt cause her own mom died and how she maybe wanted to do the same. it just didn't flow for me. especially since they came back to xander and anya after the break.
and let's not get into that whole sex for making a life crap. it's not always about making a life, especially in w/t's case, it's about love. it just seemed wrong.
it was hilarious how tara told willow that's not the point. isn't that from restless? just tara being so dominating about witchcraft rocked.
sassy boobs.... teehee
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TARA- It looks like gibberish.
SPIKE- Gibberish?
TARA- Or possibly gobbledygook. It's not words, anyway…
by xita » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:56 am
I loved this episode. It's a good transition from the body to the rest of the season. The last scene at the end was heart breaking. I really cried. It hit me more than the body. I think it is because I relate very much to what Buffy is feeling right then and there. It is tough to realize you are the one people depend on, kinda scary.
I too was bothered by that bit with sex is best when you can rub bodies and make babies, then cut to w/t. ACK! I hope they did that on purpose. Please god tell me they did it on purpose.
W/T are adorable. I don't think they have ever seemed more like a couple. I really could die of cuteness. Anyone notice that the Tara leaning on Willow at the funeral thing was actually a hug from Tara. Right as the scene fades into them you can see Tara's right arm is around Willow's shoulders. Lovely!
Ok, Doc is very creepy. Scares me lots!
sleep deprived xita. going to bed now. more later.
editing to add.. I was watching the scene again where Tara tells Dawn there's just no way they would do that and I see what part of the problem is. Willow wants to be liked. Particularly, she wants Dawn to like her and think she's cool. Dawn recoils from her touch and this upsets Willow a lot. Willow makes the mistake of thinking that "spoiling" the child will make the child like her. Tara knows that setting the limits and telling it like it is is the way to go even at the expense of the "cool" factor. I think Willow wanted Dawn to feel better and become informed but more importantly she wanted Dawn to still like her, still think she's cool.
And it's probably why Willow doesn't fess up at the end. She wouldn't want to admit that she helped Dawn out because she wanted Dawn not to be upset at her and still think she's cool. It's hard to admit that kind of stuff.
[This message has been edited by xita (edited April 18, 2001).]
by Dr.G » Wed Apr 18, 2001 1:42 am
I agree with Xita about Willow's motivations here. It makes sense. Willow did not show Dawn that book with the intent to help Dawn resurrect Joyce.
Willow can be very mature, but at times she's just, well she is just Willow. She is not perfect. Duh. But her heart is in the right place. She made a mistake, but she did not intent to do harm. Nor did she intent to lie to Tara, I think. Maybe she was afraid Tara would get angry, or maybe she was embarrassed because of the reason she showed Dawn the book.
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited April 18, 2001).]
by Beautiful Tara's Girl » Wed Apr 18, 2001 5:36 am
by Kieli » Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:05 am
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"I withdrew from the world, not because I had enemies, but because I had friends. Not because they did me ill turn, as is customary, but they thought me better than I am. It was a lie I could not endure."---Albert Camus
by april » Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:25 am
i'm confused, though, as to how our normally perceptive tara could possibly not have noticed that willow was hiding something when they discussed dawn's taking the book. it just doesn't seem right to me. then again, perhaps tara was being logical and focusing on how to solve the problem rather than how the problem occurred in the first place. so perhaps now that the problem is resolved, the subject of how dawn found out about the book will come up again.
i also wonder how long it will take willow, tara and giles to wonder how on earth dawn got the egg that the spell needed. perhaps when they confront the buffybot next week, they'll also find out that spike helped dawn. and like spike said, buffy will NOT be pleased.
the whole xander/anya sex/life thing: i think it's good for them to show that anya is gaining more and more humanity, but my god what a cheesy scene! i was expecting xander to have a witty line about not being ready for children, but instead it was all waaaay too earnest. and i don't think that anyone, i mean *anyone*, wants to see them reproduce right now. oh no.
and that last scene...i agree with xita, it moved me even more than the body did. seeing dawn watch her sister break down and *finally* start to understand how hard it was for her was amazing and heartwrenching, and smg and michelle t did an incredible job. i greatly look forward to a much tighter relationship between the two of them. and considering the amount of determination that they both have ("bitty buffy", lol), if they really put their minds to something, then look out! minions or no minions, all-powerful or not, i don't think glory has a chance...
by Banshee » Wed Apr 18, 2001 9:50 am
quote:
Originally posted by tvsurfer:
doc had a tail and hummed peter and the wolf, if he has canine in him he could tell dawn was the key
It sounds to me like doc has tricked dawn into offering her mortal self wrapper (bone flesh breath eternally) as a offering to osiris for the return of joyce
2 things:
How would Doc being from the canine family make him able to detect whether or not Dawn was the key? I mean, he DID mistake spike for someone else(he even mentioned the different physical characteristics)--wouldn't smell alone have determined that?
2)I think you're off on the spell--w/Doc trying to trick Dawn into offering her "mortal self wrapper". We were not privy to all of the ingredients of the spell. The: BONE FLESH BREATH could reference the Egg that seemed to be a VERY important ingredient of the spell. The YOURS ETERNALLY could very well make refrence to the zombie being a sort of property of Osiris--a god of the underworld and ressurection.
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*~*~*~*~* I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones *~*~*~*~*
by Rane » Wed Apr 18, 2001 10:20 am
by KJ_Chicago » Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:02 am
Being a "newbie" and only having watched S5, I was really impressed with last night's episode. I am so thankful that there are five new episodes to follow in a row bcuz the ending just kept me wanting for more....
I loved that they showed W/T being more affectionate. And I am glad that when Dawn wanted to go stay overnight by W/T that they showed Buffy hesitate at first and then she said OK.
I am glad that Spike helped Dawn, but wondering where is his true motivation coming from?
And all I can say about Xander/Anya in bed "we could be making a life" is what the fuh??
by lilpinkcowgirl » Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:37 am
I will never be able to look at eggs again without thinking of boobs.
That is all.
by Kalita » Wed Apr 18, 2001 11:48 am
quote:
Originally posted by Banshee:
2 things:How would Doc being from the canine family make him able to detect whether or not Dawn was the key? I mean, he DID mistake spike for someone else(he even mentioned the different physical characteristics)--wouldn't smell alone have determined that?
Giles' notes, "Blood Ties":
"The Key is also susceptible to necromanced animal detection, particularly those of canine or serpent construct…"
And Doc DID eventually realize what Spike was; I think the 'you're that guy!' bit was just showing a personality quirk.
quote:
2)I think you're off on the spell--w/Doc trying to trick Dawn into offering her "mortal self wrapper". We were not privy to all of the ingredients of the spell. The: BONE FLESH BREATH could reference the Egg that seemed to be a VERY important ingredient of the spell. The YOURS ETERNALLY could very well make refrence to the zombie being a sort of property of Osiris--a god of the underworld and ressurection.
Toatally agreeing here. I don't think Dawn's eternal soul is in trouble. Not from Osiris, anyway.
Kal
by concrete » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:06 pm
?!?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Willow: maybe, maybe that way.
Tara: We looked that way. And this way, and the other way.
She’s not out here.
Willow: Where would you go? If you felt lost and alone? Where
Would you go?
Tara: To you.
Deleted scene from Blood Ties
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
by darvangi » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:11 pm
I really loved this ep, and I don't think it was just because it came on the heels of a huge Buffy drought. It was a good way to make life move on for the gang after the devastating loss of Joyce. And I'm glad they didn't go with a jokey ep immediately after The Body (they saved it for next week, apparently) because the gang definitely needed some closure: Willow going to visit her Mom, Giles having a sentimental moment at home with alcohol and "Tales of Great Ulyses;" and I even found some thematic closure in Tara's affirmation of her strong Wiccan beliefs - letting us know that moral codes about respecting the value of the natural order of life and death transcend religious boundaries by ebbing into inherent humanity.
Of course, the most significant closure came with Buffy and Dawn's reconciliation at the end, which was very touching and well-played (it could have easily been overly sentimental). I was very happy to see them come together and lean on each other at this time.
My favorite aspect of the ep was it's ability to blend in a little action and horror without it seeming out of place amongst the high drama. I was on edge when dawn was stealing the egg, but I was close to a heart attack when I saw the terrifying shadow of Zombie Joyce outside the window. I was up against the tv screen trying to rip up the photograph my own damn self. Yow! That was some good stuff.
by tvsurfer » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:49 pm
When Dawn and Spike break into the magic box and get giles notes on 'the key' they read
"The Key is also susceptible to necromanced
animal detection, particularly those of canine or serpent construct…"
so if 'doc' (who is an underworld god according to variety) has a tail and is humming peter and the wolf, he may have taken on some necromanced canine form and thus be able to see 'dawn as the key'
as for the spell that 'doc' give dawn he gives it to her on paper, he never says it out loud. and spike had told dawn if the spell required more than just dirt then it wasn't the mom she knew that would be brought back
Dawn says three times
OSIRIS GIVER OF DARKNESS
TAKER OF LIFE
GOD OF GODS
ACCEPT MY OFFERING
BONE FLESH BREATH YOURS ETERNALLY
from these words it appears osiris is the god of death and the offering dawn is offering for the return of joyce is her human wrapper
dawns offering to him bone flesh and breath
when she stole the first egg she broke it and there was no chick inside, just
egg white and egg yolk, there were no bones or flesh and certainly no breath.
the only thing breathing in that spell casting circle was Dawn.
[This message has been edited by tvsurfer (edited April 18, 2001).]
by Princess Willow » Wed Apr 18, 2001 1:00 pm
I loved the W/T bed scene. Go Tara with her Sassy Eggs. When Tara lay down beside Willow on the bed and started playing with her sleeve and holding her hand I was like..AWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!
I also loved Tara's vehement stance on the wiccan oath. Go TARA!!! I was really impressed with the way she took charge with Dawn. I could totally see her having tried the resurrection spell on her mom. It would explain her family's treatment of her.
Two things I didn't really like about the W/T scenes: 1) Tara noticing the book missing. Nothing drew her attention to the bookcase. She just looked over and saw it was gone. It didn't look natural. I think it would have worked better if she was at the bookshelf looking for something and noticed it. 2) Tara saying "We're witches, we know stuff." This also didn't seem natural. Especially with what we know about Tara's past. I would have liked to see Tara reach out to Dawn seeing as she lost her mom as well.
I was worried about Willow's actions until the scene when Tara saw the book missing. I totaly agree that Willow was not trying to help Dawn find the spell but that she wanted Dawn to realize how dangerous it was. She really didn't think Dawn would try it, especially since Dawn has no wiccan training. Although, collectively, they should have realized Dawn has the power to do magic and more. She's the key. They have to remember that. She's obviously VERY powerful if Glory needs her.
Doc was great. I am looking forward to seeing him in future episodes. Here's a theory on him. He was wistling Peter and the wolf, he had a tail, he growled...what if he's some sort of werewolf? Willow would probably be able to sense it (having previously dated one). This might cause some tension between her and Tara. Just a theory.
Wow...I really rambled on. Sorry guys.
I'll be quiet now. *slides into lurk mode for a bit*
edited to add WOO HOO!!! I'm a Doll's Eye Crystal!!!!!!!!!!! *does snoopy dance*
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"Lord what fools these mortals be."
[This message has been edited by Princess Willow (edited April 18, 2001).]
by tommo » Wed Apr 18, 2001 1:20 pm
As for w/t scenes, I was kind of shocked with Willow's little 'boobs' line. Joss really is pushing to the limits. I mean, it's obvious what was going through Willow's mind, heh heh.....
I like that Tara is so much more forceful these days. She shows much confidence, especially when talking about the Wiccan spells and the oath. It made me wonder if she too had researched a resurrection spell when her own mother died?
She tried so hard to reach out to Dawn, with the knowing how hard it is, and how it seems unfair. It cut me when Dawn insisted that Tara didn't know how she felt; I wonder if perhaps Willow might have had words with Dawn some other time and told her that Tara did indeed know how she felt?
Doc creeped me out, to be honest. There was something 'not quite right' about him. Ick. I didn't get all that stuff about him recognising Spike though.....although my gf suggested it was like Peter denying Jesus three times....far-fetched maybe, but the word resurrection only has one meaning for me. And it *was* Easter just last weekend. Sort of makes me wonder if Joss had all this planned out way way ahead of time this season.....ick again....I'm creeped out by Joyce's zombie self.
The most powerful moment for me was when Joyce knocked at the door and it was Buffy, pushing all her rationality aside, who flung it open. The way she said 'mommy' and the look on her face just killed me. So painful. If anything, I think that was the moment she realised that she had to give into the pain in order to move on from it.
Phew.
Rambling again....sorry folks.
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"I like money better than people. People can so rarely be exchanged for goods and/or services."
by Banshee » Wed Apr 18, 2001 2:38 pm
quote:
Originally posted by tvsurfer:
Banshee and KalitaWhen Dawn and Spike break into the magic box and get giles notes on 'the key' they read
"The Key is also susceptible to necromanced
animal detection, particularly those of canine or serpent construct…"so if 'doc' (who is an underworld god according to variety) has a tail and is humming peter and the wolf, he may have taken on some necromanced canine form and thus be able to see 'dawn as the key'
as for the spell that 'doc' give dawn he gives it to her on paper, he never says it out loud. and spike had told dawn if the spell required more than just dirt then it wasn't the mom she knew that would be brought back
Dawn says three times
OSIRIS GIVER OF DARKNESS
TAKER OF LIFE
GOD OF GODS
ACCEPT MY OFFERING
BONE FLESH BREATH YOURS ETERNALLYfrom these words it appears osiris is the god of death and the offering dawn is offering for the return of joyce is her human wrapper
dawns offering to him bone flesh and breath
when she stole the first egg she broke it and there was no chick inside, just
egg white and egg yolk, there were no bones or flesh and certainly no breath.the only thing breathing in that spell casting circle was Dawn.
[This message has been edited by tvsurfer (edited April 18, 2001).]
Ok..haven't set the scripts to memory yet--so, the canine reference skipped my mind.
I'm still thinking the egg was key..(sorry if this sounds pro-life), but that shell contained life--molecules of flesh, bone, respitory function.. it never said in the spell that it had to be fully matured. The OFFERING is a sacrifice--she handed over the essence of life(again, hoping I'm not coming off pro-life) in order for it to be channeled into her mothers corpse.
Maybe the Doc is after dawn in some way, but I don't think that spell had any underlying meaning.
-Shannon
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*~*~*~*~* I'm gonna be a fireman when the floods roll back. There's trees in the desert since you moved out. And I don't sleep on a bed of bones *~*~*~*~*
[This message has been edited by Banshee (edited April 18, 2001).]
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