The Kitten, the Witches and the Bad Wardrobe Willow & Tara Forever

by **Warduke** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 3:31 pm

posted 02-19-2001 17:31 EST (US)
Well kitties, I just watched the new ep and we find out a little more about Tara, when Anya and her were walking together, she says she’s not that good with computers but she does go online sometimes but it’s depressing…because everyone’s spelling is really bad

And when Willow checks out April, the look Tara gives her is not really a pissed off look, more like a “oh, so you think she’s attractive” look, it was a funny scene and besides, I’m sure Willow made it up to her

Then the gang was talking about April and Tara says “she practically had genuine molded plastic stamped on her ass” Giles and Willow look at her, then she says she’s just trying a little spicy talk, then Willow smiles at her, cute and funny scene.

Also funny was Ben in Glory’s dress

And now for the not so funny last scene, Buffy finding her mom on the couch, when I read about this scene, I thought it was chilling but now that I’ve seen it, the way Joyce looked, Buffy saying mom, mom, mommy, I can say that it was truly chilling, next weeks ep is going to be a BIG one.

by **TyRex316** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 3:35 pm

posted 02-19-2001 17:35 EST (US)
Thanks warduke for the quick synopsis. LOL-Tara actually says THAT, can't wait.

by **xita** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 3:57 pm

posted 02-19-2001 17:57 EST (US)
Oh thanks warduke! very cute. I can't wait. That last scene, oh god. I think I may go unspoiled next week, of course by that I mean, no crack! And only glimpse at the synopsis!

by **BBOvenGuy** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 3:58 pm

posted 02-19-2001 17:58 EST (US)
Hmmm.... so do you suppose Willow's going to encourage more "spicy talk" from Tara at a more private venue?

What does the trailer for next week look like? If it's truly going to be a BIG episode the trailer must have said something...

by **april** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 5:27 pm

posted 02-19-2001 19:27 EST (US)
i'm so excited! this sounds like it's going to be a great ep in terms of all the little tara bits...i'm so glad we get to see these little flashes of tara's personality...but hey, how did she know i had genuine molded plastic stamped on my ass? is she peeking at me while i sleep?

that last scene, though...it sounds like it has the potential to be one of the most moving, powerful moments in the history of BtVS. except for the end of "family", of course. but my god...how is buffy going to get through this?

i know i say this right before every buffy ep, but i can't wait!

by **Warduke** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 5:56 pm

posted 02-19-2001 19:56 EST (US)
Bob...when an American show airs on a Canadian channel, I don't think they ever show the trailer for the next ep, I think Roxton or eekiboo once said that it’s because by not showing the trailer, they can add another commercial…those damn greedy Canadians
Now I can’t wait for tomorrow so I can see the trailer. (I get Buffy on an American channel on Tuesday)

April, that’s good news, if you have a genuine molded plastic stamped on your ass, then it will never sag!

by **Zahir** » Mon Feb 19, 2001 6:25 pm

posted 02-19-2001 20:25 EST (US)
A thought occurs.

If this season is supposed to be about Family, then taking Buffy's away is a pretty powerful way of making it clear the Scoobies are a family. Both the Summers girls are going to need them. A lot.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

by **Dr.G** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:19 am

posted 02-20-2001 03:19 EST (US)
Urgh my post got eaten. And wouldn't you know, that only happens when I forget to save it.

Ah well, Warduke thank you for your synopsis. And lol at your reply to April there. (April, you are going to have to prove that now, preferably to me...)

So Tara does not look pissed? Well, that makes that psycho-analytical review even more silly. I would not mind seeing Tara jealous. And something in that look prompted Willow to "explain" herself. I guess she saw trouble ahead, and judging from the totally unconvincing way in which she tries to excuse herself, I am sure she will have some making up to do later. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when she does.

And Tara says "ass"! I need to hear that, and fortunately I will be able to sooner then I had hoped.

That last scene gives me the chills just reading about it, I am sure watching it will make an even greater impact.

------------------

"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 20, 2001).]

by **Fenriss** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 7:50 am

posted 02-20-2001 09:50 EST (US)
Hi, all. I haven't posted much in the last month or two, but I lurk constantly. I feel the need to speak up, because I'm suffering a little turmoil here. I need to do a little soul baring.

Am I the only one on this list who is deeply, painfully shaken by Joyce's death? I'm really glad I read spoilers for tonight, because I think I would have been a hysterical wreck if I'd seen the final scene in tonight's show unawares. I'm unable to see this as a "moving, brilliant plot twist." Maybe parental mortality is a genuine phobia for me, but without even having seen the episode, I am already badly affected by it. I'm considering not watching this episode, which would be a first in 4 seasons!

I don't know. One might suggest that I should lighten up, since this is only a TV show, after all. That's true. But good art, by definition, hits us hard, where we live. I think we all agree that Buffy is good art. What say you kittens? Any advice? I'm pretty upset…

by **Dr.G** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 7:58 am

posted 02-20-2001 09:58 EST (US)
Hey Fenriss, if you go to the mini spoiler thread about the body, you can see some of the sentiments expressed about Joyce's death. I assure you, you are not the only one deeply affected by it.
If you truly think you can't bear to watch it then do not watch the final scene, but that would also mean not watching the entire next episode I think. That will most likely be even more emotional.
I think they have shown us Joyce's death this ep, because a lot of people will need time to deal with this. It may "only" be a TV show but, speaking for myself, *I* love it and recognize or identify with what happens to the characters I love and like.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 20, 2001).]

by **xita** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 9:56 am

posted 02-20-2001 11:56 EST (US)
I am pretty bummed out about it myself. I am dreading it. I really like Joyce.

by **tvsurfer** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:13 pm

posted 02-20-2001 15:13 EST (US)
"Then the gang was talking about April and Tara says “she practically had genuine molded plastic stamped on her ass” Giles and Willow look at her, then she says she’s just trying a little spicy talk, then Willow smiles at her, cute and funny scene."

or more likely a bit of a reprisal from tara for willows previously giving the robot a look.

by **wiccie** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 1:18 pm

posted 02-20-2001 15:18 EST (US)
I think both the "jealous look" and "stamped ass" scenes demonstrate true couple-dom between Willow and Tara.

Sweet, teasing/bickering like old married folks.

I hope the "explicit sexuality" warning on the next ep includes some of Tara's new-found Spicy Talk;~)

by **eekiboo** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 4:36 pm

posted 02-20-2001 18:36 EST (US)
i just finished watching this and my reaction at the end is: OH MY GOD! Noooooo! Warduke is definitely right, it was too chilling to even think abt it. Joyce is slumped on the couch, her eyes and mouth wide open while Buffy says mom 3x then mommy... then fade out! i read abt her death by accident (i hate spoilers) but i never expected this. a total shock indeed!

good thing abt this ep is when Willow was eyeing the robot April:

Xander: Somehow I don't think a girl that looks like that is going to be lonely for too long.
Willow: Definitely not.

and when she says "definitely not," you can see Willow's eyes roaming April from head to toe and when Tara reacts, Willow suddenly makes excuses...heh.heh. it was cute!

oh and Tara somehow knew that April was a robot even b4 the others. she said it out loud which is probably the reason why she said "genuine molded plastic stamped on her ass" bit. very funny when she said that. lol guess her gay-dar knew if a girl is real or "not." heh.heh.

Spike asked Warren (April's creator) to make him a robot Buffy. are we gonna have two Buffys by the end of the season? and Glory finds out abt Buffy turning down Ben's coffee date offer and she says: "she turned us down?" to her minion...heh.heh. and Glory turning into Ben while still wearing the dress... lol!

it wasn't that great an ep but it was likeable esp. the w/t moments. pax

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Willow to Buffy: "we have to face it, you can't handle Tara being my girlfriend..." The Yoko Factor

by **Kiwiccan** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:00 pm

posted 02-20-2001 19:00 EST (US)
One Question: What did the previews for next week show?

------------------
Paula
--------
Amber FanGirl #1a
May the Amber Force be with you.

by **tvsurfer** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:10 pm

posted 02-20-2001 19:10 EST (US)
first gotta say I think tara/amber looked amazing in that low cut red top with open back at the party and liked her in the jeans the next day

ok that out of the way
anyone else thinking tara may either build a nest egg or get herself into financial trouble with on line trading?

the anya:tara bonding over their significant others roving eye's was interesting.

Willows very cute when "busted" and back peddling , tara does appear a wee bit insecure but anya's new found 'trust in xander' may help her over come that

also I'm wondering more about ben and his motives

and I'm not all to convinced Joyce wasn't killed

I'm thinking the buffy robot is going to have a significant role in defeating glory/ben.

giles let "ripper" out of the closet with spike, acting like a dad whose daughter is being threatened by well a bad boy
and I'm so glad they have resolved the always an undercurrent issue of willow:xander and xander:buffy pairings

[This message has been edited by tvsurfer (edited February 20, 2001).]

april posted 02-20-2001 19:13 EST (US)
omg, paula, the preview was so intense! this is the first time in a while that i actually freeze-framed through a preview several times (yes, i am obsessed). of course, it was all about people's reactions to joyce's death. there was an amazingly moving shot of willow with tears streaming down her face. there was another shot of willow running into a room that looked like either her dorm room or tara's.

and then...there was this *gorgeous* shot of tara standing by a window and turning around. hair down. i got the impression that she might be turning to see willow run into the room, but previews are misleading, so you can never tell.

willow looked devastated by the news of joyce's death, though, so perhaps we'll see tara comfort her.

there were also many shots of buffy's reaction, including a scene with her and dawn on the floor of what appears to be a darkened morgue (spooky!), and another moving scene of giles hugging a completely shell-shocked buffy.

there was a shot of someone's bloody knuckles (i think giles'). and some enigmatic shots of room interiors that were hard to place. also a very fast shot of someone busting through a door, hard to catch if you're not watching it in slo-mo.

the preview began and ended with someone drawing a black outline on a canvas, and the second-to-last shot was a drawing of a woman (?) on an easel in a classroom somewhere. strange stuff. the last dialogue was "try not to disturb the body".

the whole thing had a very eerie soundtrack. this is going to be an intense, hard to watch ep i think. but i'm looking forward to it. looks like we'll really get to see what the scoobies are made of.

BlackLab posted 02-20-2001 19:15 EST (US)
Blah episode, but much W/T cuteness, as described above. I wasn't expecting the ending and actually got a hard feeling in my stomach.

The promo for next week (from memory only): Buffy runs through the house, flatline on a monitor with "there was nothing we could do", Buffy & Dawn on the floor probably in a morgue, "Was it painless?", Buffy lying on her back possibly same room, Willow crying hard (in a bra or camisole), Buffy getting hugged by Giles, Xander & Anya at the hosptital or Summers' house, Willow running into the Summers' house (fully dressed), Tara turning her head away from a window with blinds - all intercut with a shot of a man drawing a woman reclining (in an art class?) - and ending with "What should I do?" "Don't disturb the body."

Augggghhhhh!

TyRex316 posted 02-20-2001 19:20 EST (US)
Paula-The previews were mainly either brief shots of everyone reacting to the news. Saw Willow crying and running from what looks like her dorm room. My immediate guess was that once hearing the news everyone thinks it has something to do with Glory and checks on their SO's. Saw a brief shot of Tara turning maybe in surprise from Willow bursting into her room? Hopefully a nice a hug and willow repeatedly saying 'you're alright, you're alright.' Also could hear what sounded like Giles and xander's voice, ep might be spike light though no sign of him in the preview.

Onto the ep tonight. It was hard to concentrate on it though especially if you knew beforehand what was coming at end. The scenes of Joyce all happy and excited were kinda depressing to look at. Loved Tara's role in this one though, god the woman can even arch eyebrows sexily-LOL. And the coolest had to be her standing up to Spike. I love this confidence streak in her lately and hope we see more examples of it. Giles and Willow's reaction to Tara's 'ass' quip was hilarious.

Beautiful Tara's Girl posted 02-20-2001 19:54 EST (US)
Yeah, I can't even comment on the final scene. It honestly chilled my spine. I might even cry next ep, and I'm NOT a crier.

So I'll say this: why has no one else commented on "I don't think she's a Code Red. Is there a Code Pink?"

...IMMEDIATE cut to a smirking Tara...

Heh. HEH.

~BTG
(heh)

------------------
"We are the music-makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams."
-Willy Wonka

calliope posted 02-20-2001 20:03 EST (US)
well, I dont know if anybody felt this too, but I kinda got some bad vibes from the W/T scenes in this ep. They were cute don't get me wrong, but I seem to remember someone saying things weren't gonna be all roses for them, and I can't shake this ominous feeling that roseless times are ahead. Did anyone notice willow's reaction after that coversation about Oz? And how about her sympathy for warren, because "sometimes its just easier to have somebody in your life." Sounded alot like she was talking about her and tara, especially since it came right after the whole oz conversation. Also, lately, I've been noticing that Tara seems much more into the relationship than Will does. I guess I'm just really worried, maybe somebody can talk me down. hypergirl posted 02-20-2001 20:08 EST (US)
Well.....I was kicked off of the good computer and forced onto one of the "ghetto computerz" before I could upload many of my little pics tonight....anywayz ...two of the decent ones that I have are of Tara's "look" after Willow does her little checking out....hah Ashley got a digital camera yesterday for her birthday which is tomrrow...she was "playing" with it...and decided to take these pics LoL Anywayz....
http://hypergirlh.tripod.com/THELOOK.jpg
http://hypergirlh.tripod.com/THELOOK2.jpg

Not top quality...but ....they're still nice. LoL Anywayz....if I don't end up going to school tomorrow *been sick for nearly two weeks now...itz time for it go away* I shall upload the rest of the about ....eh 17 I took ...unless someone gets some better ones up by then. Anywayz .....I'm going to hush for now.....

Ciao -
ºAshleyº

BlackLab posted 02-20-2001 20:15 EST (US)
BTG: "D'oh!" The memory of most of the episide started to trail off my mind after that last scene, or I would have noted that quote. And we all know what red & pink are the most popular codewords for... april posted 02-20-2001 20:48 EST (US)
btg, i noticed that right away! i was going to comment on it, but then i wrote my long summary abut the preview, and i wanted to wait a bit before posting again.

but yes, tara's smile right after willow said "code pink" was oh so cute! it was maybe my favorite tara moment of the ep. tara has this way of speaking volumes with her smiles. such as the "are you happy now?" smile in family.

and now, i shall post my thoughts about this ep:

first of all, was that not the longest "previously on buffy" that you'd ever seen? they seriously recapped the entire season! so much riley! maybe the ep ran slightly short, and they had to fill up some time...

nextly, i couldn't help but giggle everytime someone said my name in the ep. i loved it!

now on to more w/t scenes. is it just me, or was this the first time we've *ever* heard anya say tara's name? as soon as it escaped her lips i noticed that "hey, anya's never said that before!"

the tara 'jealousy' scene was cute. it wasn't exactly jealousy, just a sort of "and what are *you* doing checking out other girls, hmm?"

and notice how, when giles (i think) inquires as to why someone would make a robot like that, willow and tara instantly knew, even if xander was the only one to say it out loud. oh yes, they both noticed april (me!) all right...

i loved the conversation between tara and anya. as soon as it came on, i started bouncing and saying "xita and bob were there! they saw that!" my friends thought i had lost it. tara's spelling comment was great. i love her.

i actually didn't like the april plot all that much, although it greatly amused me to picture britney spears playing me. oh, if only...

it was great to see giles in "ripper" mode though, standing up to spike like that...he was really sexy. as was tara, quietly doing the same thing.

and that final scene. oh my god. seeing joyce lying there was just chilling. and the look on buffy's face...the way she said "mom....mom....mommy?". my god. poor buffy. first she loses riley, then her mom. geez.

ty, i agree that the happy joyce scenes were really depressing to watch when you knew what was coming. geez.

but i'm actually sort of excited to see the next ep. it may not be cheerful and light, but it will be a powerhouse. those tears streaming down willow's face...damn.

EDITED TO ADD: oh yeah, and how about xander saying that he missed oz? was he channeling zelda? and notice that they cut to willow looking slightly sad right after that... hmm. but it didn't bother me, really. it's easy to tell that willow and tara are here to stay.

also, what was ben *doing* giving buffy his phone number, knowing that she's the slayer and he has this unfortunate tendency to turn into glory? is he *trying* to lead glory to buffy? he seemed sincere, but i don't trust him now! especially not after glory heard buffy leaving a message on his/her machine! this greatly worries me...

[This message has been edited by april (edited February 20, 2001).]

january_girl posted 02-20-2001 21:11 EST (US)
dude!

buffy's mom is dead!! i'm so upset! that came out of nowhere!

next week is gonna be really sad

Warduke posted 02-20-2001 21:12 EST (US)
Well I missed the trailer earlier tonight but luckily I get a second WB channel on my satellite, from LA (KTLA) so I just saw it and there’s no doubt that next weeks ep is going to be one of the most emotional eps ever and the scene with Willow crying was just

I'm sure all kittens hate to see Willow or Tara crying.

I really can’t wait to see this ep; the last time I was looking forward to an ep so much was for Family but this time there won’t be any happy endings

EvilAnya posted 02-20-2001 21:33 EST (US)
Oh my, i have so much to say about this episode but i don't want to bore anyone to death. There were major feminist issues with the whole April plot, and I really loved Buffy talking to her, she knew that April couldn't see her existance as anything but living for Warren, because that's how she was programmed, there was no purpose for her outside of the task of pleasing Warren and that's a huge feminist issue, how women are defined by their relationships with a man. I think by talking to April, Buffy realized that she doesn't need a SO to define her, she's a perfectly cool person on her own, just like Xander tried to point out to her.

On another board there were some folks who took Buffy's sympathy with April as "it's because Buffy was made to love Spike!" which i can't believe, it's just another case of people defining her character by who she loves, and it's especially disturbing that some people think Spike's stalker tendencies are perfectly alright, even sweet.

i know the writers don't like to get up on soapboxes but they do touch on real issues, like controlling relationships and abuse and stalking are real situations and some people seem to think it's ok.

ok, enough venting!

Loved all the scenes with Tara in them, and not just because she's a cute little muffin, she's really growing as a character, and i've loved her interactions with Anya ever since the "nice bathroom" "i like the tile" scene in the yoko factor. I like the way Tara interacts with Anya because Tara saw her first as a human being, not just as "ex-demon girl". Tara is just one of the cutest characters ever.

the Xander/Buffy scenes were really sweet too, Xander said some really beautiful things to Buffy and if my best friend had said those things to me she would have been attacked by hugs just like Buffy did with Xander.

I don't really want to talk about the last scene. I am usually a spoiler junkie but i decided to go spoiler free for the last few eps and i had no idea it was coming. I knew that there were rumors that Joyce would die, but i didn't know if they were true or when. I know from reading the mini spoiler threat that a lot of other people here have experienced the loss of a parent or family member and it's just so hard to watch.

This episode couldn't have come at a worse time for me. I found out today that my mom has breat cancer and had i known the ending of tonights ep i wouldn't have watched, i am going to read all the spoilers for the next ep before i watch it, if i do in fact end up watching it.

sorry, i didn't mean to rain on the normally very happy kitty board, this ep just hit me really hard.

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Willow: you know what's weird?
Tara: Japanese commercials are weird.

Utena posted 02-20-2001 21:35 EST (US)
ok well forget about the april-bot story...talk about filler dude! the w/t moments were reallyreally sweet...i loved the look tara gave willow when she mentioned april, oh that was *classic*.

the ep story was not too memorable...but the scooby interaction was superb, like giles going daddy on spike! i like Father Giles, i was cheering him on as soon as he pushed spike. woohoo giles!

and spike is now officially, officially a sick, sick puppy. buffy doll? my gosh.

tvsurfer posted 02-20-2001 21:36 EST (US)
just had to watch the eppie over
another thing I noticed, tara is very protective of dawn, she moves between dawn and spike when spike tries to talk to dawn

after "The Body" the next eppie is 'Family' have to wonder if JW placing the eppies in that order is to send a message as to who buffy's family is

Anyalvr posted 02-20-2001 22:02 EST (US)
I loved this episode! Nice non-arc plot, very funny, lots of nice moments.

Yes, Tara and Willow seemed to be kind of in a lurch over Willow's jealousy, but I don't think it has anything to do with Oz. (Him getting Willow back would be pretty redundant). Friction is good and I like the toughness part of Tara (it's not going to break them up).

Loved the scene where Tara stands up to Spike, protecting Dawn Almost as much as Giles getting all macho with him. Mmmmm, Giles. Stirred something in me

After being very dissapointed that Anya only got ONE line last episode, nice to see she was back to her old funny, blunt self. "I'm thinking of buying something really expensive. Maybe an antelope."

Plus, Xander trying to explain to her about the Chex mix was hilarious.

"I miss Oz." I'm sorry, guys, but it cracked me up.

So Buffy, you don't need a man. Like, duh.
Haven't I been saying this? Glad we got that over with.

Lovely Xander/Buffy moments. I'm glad Xander's found his niche, career-wise.

Oh, Joyce. The scene with her on the couch was very disturbing. I'm sure next weeke's episode will be a tear-jerker.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla, angel)

Utena posted 02-20-2001 22:25 EST (US)
EvilAnya I'm so sorry...and dont worry about posting it to the board, we kittens are all about support...

tvsurfer posted 02-20-2001 22:35 EST (US)
having just rewatched the coming attraction bit I'm thinking

3

2

1

Joyce was killed
since it appears there is someone in an art class doing a drawing of her dead body (creepy) and that buffy and dawn are knocked down in a hospital morgue room and buffy gets up and breaks out of the room busting the lock on the door

Dr.G posted 02-21-2001 12:36 EST (US)
EvilAnya, I can only imagine how you must feel right now. I am sorry. Dead Dog posted 02-21-2001 01:12 EST (US)
I believe that the very few frames of Willow's reaction after Xander mentioned Oz showed that Willow still cares about Oz. That's not really a surprise, but why show it? BtVS doesn't usually do subtle stuff like that unless it foreshadows something.

Anyway, I think I have some of the "looks" from this episode vidcapped fairly decently. Posted them a few minutes ago.
http://www.deaddogparty.com/alyiwas.html

I liked a lot of the close-up expressions and did lots of vidcaps, so please be patient while 88 thumbnails download to your browser. Ham radio fans, I did not consciously plot to post 88 pics. No hidden meanings there, but nevertheless appropriate.

-- Nick

xita posted 02-21-2001 01:52 EST (US)
Hypergirl and Nick, thanks for the quick caps.

Now for Calliope concern and for Nick's concerns about the oz comment. I see nothing in her look. First of all they were all looking at xander like he was disgusting. Willow's look shows some lingering feeling of that. Plus she quickly goes on. It's not like she's disturbed by the metion of his name. It's logical that they would bring up his name. It's not like the guy died.

About the Tara jealousy. Of course this was to show her being jealous. However, the more important reason this is on the show is to show that Willow is attracted to other women. I think they really want to cement the though that Willow is gay. I trust BTVS will not send a double message of what it means to be gay. I trust in them.

And I trust in our couple and their cuteness. They of course were cute today full of other feelings. I think it is good to know that Tara will not put up with whatever from Willow. Nice couple development.

EvilAnya, my thoughts are with you and your family.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited February 21, 2001).]

Dr.G posted 02-21-2001 02:03 EST (US)
I completely agree with you here Xita. Besides, they have looked at each other countless times with oowee aawee loving looks, that should count for more than the worried frown every now and again.
Oh and might I recommend reading Amber's interview posted by Shay? That will boost your spirit I hope.

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"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

Catwoman posted 02-21-2001 02:35 EST (US)
I was reading some posts at the bronze threaded board and someone has a theory that next week Tara is attacked by Glory and that's Willow sketching Tara's body. Doesn't sound very likely to me, unless its Willow doing a sketch of Tara in the 'Titanic' way. Then i'm all for it

Dr.G posted 02-21-2001 03:07 EST (US)
Catwoman, I think the person who posted that theory probably had his/her brain sucked by Glory. Excuse me, but I am so very tired of the negativity concerning Tara. Face it, she is here to stay. Needless to say I like your theory infinitely better. And however unlikely yours may be (unfortunately) it is still far more likely than the other option.

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"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 21, 2001).]

tvsurfer posted 02-21-2001 03:58 EST (US)

I'm more worried about tara getting into on line trading than her and willow splitting up.

but I do think the Oz line had a purpose, they showed all the girls reacting too it except tara. if oz is coming back for the 100th eppie then I think this is the begining of the set up for his return

darvangi posted 02-21-2001 06:04 EST (US)
Okay: imagine the way longtime Buffy fans who were involved in gay rights issues felt when the W/T subtext became maintext in Mew Moon Rising. They were pretty damn excited to see a couple of great role models for gays on prime time tv, I'll tell ya that much (and most of them still are). Well, let me just let you know how excited I was, as an outspoken feminist, to see the feminist subtext I've loved for so long become maintext with this episode. To hear Buffy Summers say at the end that she doesn't need to define her identity by way of a romantic relationship and then to call off the date with Ben - I was smiling so hard my face started to hurt. Brilliant stuff. A very simple but very real, very necessary feminist message was voiced by a major character - and worded so well by Jane Espenson. I didn't stop smiling until I saw Joyce's cold body lying on the couch.

April: that's hilarious, because I also immediately thought of Zelda as soon as Xander said he missed Oz. BTW, the XanMan was looking good in this ep with that non-greasy, shaggy hair. He had some damn good lines, too, which were nice to hear given his uneven treatment by the writers overall this season.

Xita: I agree that the jealousy bit was an excellent way of letting the audience know that Willow was not just attracted to Tara as a freakish, one-time incident. Girl.Is.Gay. Way gay. I also love seeing Tara get jealous (like she's done a couple of times before) because it shows how much Willow means to her, which is also good for the skeptical audience members to see.

Anyalvr: mmm, Giles stirred something in me, too, getting all up in Spike's face and telling him just how it's gonna be. Rupert's got those gorgeous, squinty eyes with the crow's-feet around them that let you know just how much he means business.

Nick: thanks, you definitely got some of the best "looks" from the ep, and this one had a lot of great facial expressions, best of all being Sarah's great hollow stare of disbelief at the end. That (Emmy) girl can act (Emmy) up a storm. Emmy.

EvilAnya posted 02-21-2001 07:07 EST (US)
thanks for your support everyone.

------------------
Willow: you know what's weird?
Tara: Japanese commercials are weird.

xita posted 02-21-2001 07:22 EST (US)
I think Sarah is a great actress and there have been many moments this year where she has shown her stuff. Her face so void of make up next week makes her expressions more naked. I am looking forward to this. Yes Darin, Emmy!

And yes the message of feminism was the best thing ever. I was so afraid of this Ben thing. I think Buffy is ready to be defined for who she is. She's the slayer darn it, that ain't hay!

You know everyone shows jealousy on this show. You have to remember how much Joss loves these emotions. I am not afraid. People who now are saying that this spells the end of w/t are the same people who said W/T were boring because they have no drama. Here's your drama, except Angst, we'll hold each other and then everything will be fine. I trust in Joss.

The o/w/t triangle, it's been done. I expect it to not be an issue.

It was very cool seeing that ep, cause I had been there. When Buffy was fighting April, I kept thinking how cool it was that I had been there. I kept thinking, I am there just out of frame, or that's the spot where I was moved from. Or those are the swing I sat in. Very cool. And the Tara/Anya scene, Bob and I saw that from a different angle, but man those Tara expressions could be seen across the street!

April, yes it was very weird hearing Anya finally say Tara's name.

Oh, one last thought. I thought Xander's comment might be a foreshadowing of the scoobies adopting a male in their fold.

Warduke posted 02-21-2001 08:07 EST (US)
I totally agree with xita and Dr.G on the Oz thing, I didn’t see anything in Willow’s look after Xander mentioned Oz, she didn’t look happy, she didn’t look sad, she didn’t look anything and like xita said, the W/T/O thing as already been done and Joss won’t “go there” again tyche posted 02-21-2001 08:41 EST (US)
Oh, and on the feminism thing: Geez, Spike, misogynistic much? First the dummy, now the robot thing. Sort of proves that he only sees women as objects.
Well, if he does get the Buffybot made, she'll never be able to answer back to him, so then he'll be happy. This is the Buffyverse equivalent of buying one of those blow-up sex dolls... spuckie posted 02-21-2001 08:41 EST (US)
i tend to agree the oz comment had some purpose. The precursor to him coming back for abit, as well as acknowledging the shear number of women in the group. it's xander and giles and that's it.

I loved alot of this episode. it was great comedy, and good feminist subtext as others pointed out. Being relatively spoiler-free (i did stumble on some news that joyce would die this season, but didn't know when). Anyway, i found the last scene disturbing, not just because of her sudden death, but because the scene seemed so out of place to me. Kinda like "jane - add to the end of yer great funny episode, a death scene for joyce" kinda thing. It didn't seem to fit.

after having read all yer posts, i do see there was some linkage i hadn't noticed. Joyce being all happy before and after her date. starting out again on the romance side. And also the reality that death is frequently sudden, and you aren't prepared for it. So in retrospect, i think it was done quite well. Next week's episode is gonna be a real tearjerker...

[This message has been edited by spuckie (edited February 21, 2001).]

Jon@han posted 02-21-2001 09:08 EST (US)

I must admit that I rather liked this ep. Boded fair to be just another M.o.t.W, but that ending said "No!"

On some other boards, [1] there has been a lot of talk about the whole Buffy/Riley == Warren/April thing. I have to disagree. While Buffy can certainly see a lot of parallels between their situations,(especially the whole leaving bit. Buffy has serious abandonment issues [2]) I don't think there is a whole lot of identification there. She sympathizes, but she doesn't really see herself as either Warren or April.
However, there is a clear parallel between Anya and April. Anya is only recently developing into something more than a sex toy for Xander. Foreshadowing...? Only time can tell.

And now its time for another episode of "Good Idea, Bad Idea"-
Good Idea
Making a blonde dummy to practice telling Buffy that you love her.
Bad Idea
Making a blonde robot to practice having sex with Buffy.

Final Thoughts-
The camera pulls back from buffy as she sits in the swing on the playground, revealing the vast expanse of sand around her. "Always darkest before...." Buffy is in the Desert, as predicted in Restless.

--
Rev.Jon@han

[1] But in my heart of hearts, I'll always be a kitten.
[2] Which are not going to be helped by the Joyce sitch.

Corana posted 02-21-2001 09:16 EST (US)
When Xander made the comment about Oz, I saw Willow's reaction as more of a "Will you shut the f**k up! I'm already in trouble because of the sex-bot and you mention Oz!"

I thought it was funny. I definitely saw it as a "SHUT UP!" look more than anything else.

I also think it was about time that they mentioned that Xander is now the only male type scooby gang member. (Giles doesn't count. He's too dad-ish.)

Anyalvr posted 02-21-2001 10:07 EST (US)
The mere on-time mention of Oz doesn't neccessarily bode for his coming back. Well,
it could, but I don't think it means anyhting especially.

Buffy mentioned Cordelia nine episodes ago
and I haven't seen her lately. Not to mention the fact that Angel has been brought up several times recently. Willow mentioned Faith in Checkpoint. Taking all those things into context and the fact that none of these people have showed up yet, it doesn't neccessarily mean Oz is going to return.

Of course, it could. All of these people could return for the 100th episode. All I'm saying is that the mention of Oz's name isn't especially special.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla, angel)

wiccie posted 02-21-2001 11:56 EST (US)
This was a btter ep than I thought it would be from the spopilers, and here's my two-cent-thoughts:

Like Rev. Jon@than, I think there's quite a lot of significance to the playground talking scene (same location in "Restless"), and esp. the "Always darkest before...(the Dawn)"

I was very, very wigged by the parallel of April's frozen expression and Joyce's. I'm glad they didn't linger on Joyce in the shot, but Buffy's expression was hearbreaking. Emmmy, Emmmy, Emmmy...

I love the quirky couple-y things that we see between Willow and Tara. Am I the only one who thinks Willow is the *perceived* top, etc. (I will not use the "B" word) in their relationship, but that Tara really holds the reins?

I can see after being *busted* for the "Definitely not!" line, Willow goes into "yes, dear" mode later.

I'd love to see that "make-it-up-to-Tara" session;~)

As for the Oz comment, I think it was just a way for Xander to defend himself. He's allowed to miss his friend, too - it's not all about Willow and Tara. Maybe the Xander/Oz shippers can take this idea and run with it.

If Oz is back for later eps, I imagine he'd have a warm, sincere heart-to-heart with Tara. This may initially wig Willow out (more "Restless" themes popping up), but in the end I see a peaceful, mature resolution.

With Amber back next season and Seth off being a Movie Star, this has to be put to rest once and for all.

I think it was settled in NMR, but there are still some people in deep denial concerning W/O, and Joss should bonk them on the head with a clue just to make sure.*G*

BBOvenGuy posted 02-21-2001 12:52 EST (US)
Xander mentioned the Mayor last season in "Primeval" ("Does anyone miss the Mayor? I just wanna be a big snake?") and the Mayor has never come back. I don't think Xander's mentioning of Oz means Seth's about to sign a new deal and make a major new Buffy appearance.

The psychology of 'shippers is a fascinating thing - especially those whose 'ships have sailed over the horizon (W/O) or never appeared in the harbor in the first place (B/S). Of course, encroaching on the 'ship turf can be hazardous to your health. Just ask David Fury. Or me, for that matter.

I had some other clever things to say about this ep, and I've posted them here on the Creativity Board. Feel free to read and comment. Yes, this is a new promotional gimmick I'm trying. Deal with it.

Oh, and one more thing - yes, "shimmed" really is a word. I like professional craftsman Xander - much more than stuck-in-the-basement Xander, anyway.

------------------
Come visit Now Leaving Sunnydale - A Showcase for Buffy Fans and their Non-Buffy creations

Catwoman posted 02-21-2001 16:27 EST (US)
Can anyone think of anything from Restless that could possibly have foreshadowed Joyce's death? I was just thinking about that last night and couldn't come up with anything. Beautiful Tara's Girl posted 02-21-2001 16:39 EST (US)
*shrug*

Her mom in the wall? Death can be metaphorized* as a wall.

~BTG
(*now that is NOT a word...)

fyrwoman posted 02-21-2001 17:14 EST (US)
I really liked the various interactions among the scoobies in this ep. There were some excellent one-on-one conversations, as well as some funny and touching group interactions.

Wondering if anyone else noticed the quick shot of Tara holding onto Willow's arm as the gang went to the window that Spike had been sent through? It was nice to see Tara reaching out to touch Willow for a change. She may have forgiven Will's comments about April before they even left the party.

~Suz (Liking the idea of Spicy Tara...)

judy posted 02-21-2001 18:53 EST (US)
What's the matter with you people?!

Xander mentioning Oz wasn't about any possible Oz/Will reconciliation nor was it a signal of doom for W/T. No, my friends, clearly Xander can't get that short hottie out of his mind. After all he was the first one to step forward and offer Oz his hand when he returned in "New Moon Rising."

Oz will be back for the 100th Episode as will Faith. In this momentous episode Xander will come to realize the deep love that burns in his heart and loins for wolfboy. Anya will recover from this loss by discovering her calling as a human... a professional dominatrix who gets to play out vengeance and dominance with willing submissives and make lots of money in the process!

Meanwhile Faith will have learned some important lessons in the slammer and had a life changing epiphany that she will share with the Buffster.

And Willow and Tara? I leave that to your active imaginations.

[This message has been edited by judy (edited February 21, 2001).]

april posted 02-21-2001 19:24 EST (US)
lol judy, clearly xander is pining for some wolfie lovin'!

actually, i would love to see a scene between oz and tara. they're both sort of sensitive, insightful people. i imagine they'd talk about some interesting things. but i imagine the conversation would start out something like this:

oz: so uh, hi. i guess we didn't really start off on the right foot last time we met...

tara: well, there was that whole 'you trying to eat me' thing.

and then they'd move on. cuz they're big like that.

but after a w/t kiss, bringing back faith would be the best present that joss could give me! please? i've been a good girl...

eekiboo posted 02-21-2001 20:11 EST (US)
was thinkin'...when Tara said "geniune molded plastic" stamped on her ass," didn't it sound like she's kinda getting back at Willow for the "definitely not" statement? probably she wanted to see how Willow will react to this, and she surely did look at her rather strangely, so she added "trying a little spicy talk" which finally calmed Willow... heh.heh.

she's probably thinkin': "trying to make me jealous huh? so waddya think abt this..." and thus the "ass" bit. heh.heh. cute. peace

Nouvelle posted 02-21-2001 21:00 EST (US)
This is for EvilAnya.

My mom was also diagnosed with breast cancer. It was pretty serious with 23 positive lymph nodes. This May will mark the 4 years since her surgery. She is doing wonderful. Words can't begin to describe what you or your mom are going through. Just remember there are many treatments available and simply having cancer is'nt a death sentence. Believe it or not some postive things came out of that horrible time. Suddenly you become a member of an "exclusive" club. Anytime you meet someone who has been diagnosed with cancer they suddenly become a friend. The two of you share something others don't. You talk about things such as treatments and if you got sick during chemo. You can even laugh about losing your nose hair. My mom has met several women who have become her closest friends. It's because they share something other friends hav'nt experienced.

I'm not saying everything was easy. God knows it wasn't. But the one thing I think my family and I took from this experience was to simply be grateful for each and every day we have. I no longer get upset if I miss my favorite TV show or I get a bad haircut. Those things aren't important. Simply enjoying day to day life with loved ones is what matters most.

Your life and your mothers has already began to change. The road ahead won't be easy and no one knows what will happen, but science and medicine can do amazing things these days. I wish your mother and you good luck and good health.

-Amy B.

Roxton posted 02-21-2001 21:04 EST (US)
Just a few thoughts on I Was Made To Love You:

With the exception of the ending it really wasn't an exceptional episode.
The scene where Willow checked out April was cute and I loved Tara's reaction, but I don't think she was really jealous.
Tara's "she practically had genuine molded plastic stamped on her ass" line was great. It shows just how comfortable she is becoming with the rest of Scoobies.
It was great to see Giles in his Ripper persona again, although I don't think Spike quite knew what to make of it.
Anya appears to be using the Magic Shop's money for on line trading. While she may have tripled it this time I don't think she realizes the risks involved. I'm sure Giles will not be too happy when he finds out.
Finally I found it sadly ironic that last night we saw Joyce moving on with her life after her illness. She seemed excited about being back at the gallery and with the prospect of having found someone special. To have all this taken away from her by her untimely death was depressing. I'm going to miss her.

[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited February 21, 2001).]

calliope posted 02-21-2001 21:12 EST (US)
Dont get me wrong, I dont think they're going to break up anytime soon (at least they better not), but I definetly think bumpy roads are a comin', which, of course, isn't a bad thing. Its a natural thing You know, couples fight, get back together, love each other even more. That's generally how it goes. I do think, however, that in this ep they were laying preliminary framework for a will/tara spat. That look from willow at the mere mention of Oz was more than a "shut-up" look. Yeah, we've heard other characters mentioned without that meaning they were going to come back or affect them in the future, but this was different. I think this was a pretty important scene for establishing future conflict. Xander mentions Oz for the first time since NMR (if i'm not mistaken, which I could be), and we get an immediate reaction shot from willow looking uncomfortable (nothing from Tara btw to suggest that this was just a jealousy issue), and then we get Willow, immediately after that giving a speech about how being with someone is "just easier." Its also obvious that Tara was acting pretty darn insecure at times in this ep. Its interesting, because she seemed to be more confident in this ep as a scooby than in her relationship. By that I dont mean whether or not she's in control, but how she views herself in the relationship. The basic conflict between them will probably be: Will goes through that "wondering if I made a mistake" phase, which I think is perfectly normal. And Tara will go through "wondering if she is bored with me" phase, which I also think is perfectly normal. Tara seemed really self-concsious when prettier girls were mentioned, and my guess is that she was trying the "spicey" talk just to spice up her image. Anyway, so yeah, I definetly think we're gonna have some W/T angst, but I know they'll get through it (they better damn it!) I love them as a couple, and I'd love to see them happy 24/7. But, alas, love is irrational. Nobody controls it, just like nobody can be "in control" of a relationship (whatever that means). Let's not forget how much Will loved Oz. I dont think its that strange to suggest that she still is somewhat effected by the remnants of that love. So, if he comes back at the end, it may very well cause problems between them. Nothing they wont get over, but problems nonetheless. Who knows they may have them get into a big fight at the end of the season and make us wait 'till the season premiere for the make-up. That would be a cliffhanger of epic proportions (at least for w/t fans), but it would also be horrible cruel too.
Zahir posted 02-21-2001 22:35 EST (US)
Wow. People sure do try to make the most of the tiniest little stuff (I thought the "Oz" line hinted at how Xander misses male companionship).

Like Buffy, I ended up feeling profoundly sorry for April (Warren really is something of a slimeball).

Spike getting his very own Buffy-bot has sooooo much potential. Wonder if he'll make a her a vampire slayer? Weirdly, I can imagine both Buffies becoming something like friends... (fan fic writers take note). The boy continues to grow up.

Always great to get a glimpse of Ripper.

Willow and Tara each have their insecurities, and they show. Methinks that will end up being a source of tension (but I just don't see them breaking up--I just don't). Methinks the whole jealousy thing might become something of a game with them--"Oops! Busted! I'll have to make it up to Tara..." (heh heh heh)

Wonder what Ben's agenda really is?

And let me say this--I saw my mother slowly disintegrate over nearly a decade. Still, when she passed it was a blow. For Buffy, even with the warnings of sickness and threats, this is going to be horrible. And it'll be even worse for Dawn. Good thing they have a family to give support--all the Scoobies (even, I suspect, Spike eventually).

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

xita posted 02-21-2001 22:41 EST (US)
Calliope, I am sorry but I don't think BTVS will ever do what you suggest. It would destroy everything that they have done. They have made her transition angst free and while not pleasing to some it has been refreshing. Willow is comfortable with her sexuality. Really that look meant nothing. Oz/Tara/Willow thing will not be repeated. BTVS is not one to do things 2 times. Willow chose Tara, end of story. I do believe we will see angst but not in terms of sexuality. Of course they would show Willow when Oz' name was mentioned. That's her ex. Her look did not show anything to me. About what she says, Willow was talking about Warren and you fail to mention that Tara also talked about this. Really the point of this conversation was for Buffy to realize her desperation. Notice the look on Buffy's face at the end. She's lonely and she's the one who in the ep was willing to compromise in order not to be alone.

To believe that Willow feels this way is against everything I believe about this relationship and everything Joss has shown me. It's love , it has always been about true love and not about company because Willow was lonely. Really, I want conflict Joss as well but I don't believe he would chose this. It would go against what he has said and the integrity of the relationship.

Edited to add, where was Tara insecure about comparing to prettier girls? I think I missed that scene. Also, I think Tara spicing up her speech comes more from a desire to fit in with the scoobies, not with Willow.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited February 21, 2001).]

SciFiAcid posted 02-21-2001 22:42 EST (US)
Um, when it comes to conflict, I think that we are more likely to see the source of tension between Willow and Tara having something to do with magicks more than anything else. I think someone already mentioned, buffyverse rarely does a storyline twice and we've already had Willow questioning between Oz/Tara in NMR. Although I thought the smile was a sad rememberance on Willow's part, I didn't see it as anything to do with her current relationship, or any questioning of it! Em, I say watch out for magicks conflict more than anything else.
Dr.G posted 02-21-2001 22:48 EST (US)
Calliope, you asked to be talked down, apparently we did not succeed. Let me try again then. What you just wrote reminds me an awful lot of Loey's review. I already replied to that. I am very much in disagreement with *everything* you just said. We are all entitled to our point of view, but what is obvious to *you* is not obvious to *me*. I am sure there will be angst for them, and that is fine by me. But that angst will have nothing to do with the way they feel about each other.

They love each other, neither of them is insecure or in doubt, there is NOTHING that suggests otherwise. Oz can come back for all I care, it will not matter. Willow cares for him I am sure, she may even love him. But her love for Tara outshines *everything*, it will overcome everything. I can go all psychological now and explain every look and loving touch they have given each other and present it as evidence. But if you can't see it, nothing I say will convince you.

------------------

"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 21, 2001).]

xita posted 02-21-2001 22:51 EST (US)
Oh, i want to post more about this ep.

Darin, I think our boy Xander maybe into boys. First missing Riley and now missing Oz. He's got it bad
how funny was puffy xander.

Did anyone see any x/b stuff going on?

Now, the sad part. I watched this twice. The second time I became extremely sad about Joyce. Seeing her so happy in the beginning, knowing what was coming. It was really too much. My gf found her mother much like that one time. Her mother spent 2 weeks in ICU on a ventilator but got better. But the end made her cry anyway. She knew how Buffy felt. It was very sad.

Dr.G posted 02-22-2001 12:59 EST (US)
I know you were not addressing me, but I would like to respond to this:

quote:
Originally posted by Nouvelle:
This is for EvilAnya.
I'm not saying everything was easy. God knows it wasn't. But the one thing I think my family and I took from this experience was to simply be grateful for each and every day we have. I no longer get upset if I miss my favorite TV show or I get a bad haircut. Those things aren't important. Simply enjoying day to day life with loved ones is what matters most.

-Amy B.

Please bear with me now.

My father died unexpectedly (eventhough he had been ill for a long time, it was unexpected for me) 8 years ago now. I will never forget that day or get over that loss. At first I did not care to get upset about anything, it all seemed so unimportant. That has changed.

I am very grateful that I *do* get upset when I miss watching Buffy or when someone bashes Tara. I get angry at little and large things all the time. Because they *are* important to *me* again.

Each of us copes with loss and pain in different ways. No one can really help with that, other than offering support (just as you did now). You still have to go through it yourself, learn your own lessons and draw your own conclusions. I am not making sense here, am I?

It is just that the way I read your post, it sounds like you are making a general statement about what is important in life. And I think that is something we must all decide for ourselves.

Editing to add:
Xita, I am sorry to hear that about your gf's mom. This ep and the next certainly bring up some powerful emotions for many people.
However, I hope you will forgive me that I will be happy, regardless of the sadness I feel about Joyce, if they show some good W/T moments (like there are any other kind) next week.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 22, 2001).]

darvangi posted 02-22-2001 07:20 EST (US)
Xita, I loved so many Xander moments in this ep. I'm gonna have to go back over the Espenson scripts and see if she's always so good to his character.

First, there was puffy-Xander, which was just so cute with the "stand me back up" so he could talk seriously to her, and then she hugs him and he can't hug back. I would have gotten notions there, but I kept Restless' "big brother" comment in mind, and this helped to make the scene more poignant instead of having it just be a stepping stone on the way to relationship melodrama.

Then, there was the hilarious bit where Giles tells the gang he has enormous amounts of research into robots they can do just so he can watch Xander squirm, then Xander laughs and says: "funny - charming and funny." I laughed hard on that one. Xander is probably jealous of Giles' wit and charm, but I hope he also realizes how much of it he has himself.

And of course my favorite was when the Xanman was there with Buff at the end, encouraging her as she made the decision that she needed to be alone for a while in order to get comfortable with herself. Another perfect, non-sexual moment between two friends. I saw this as a return to classic form for Xander because I could really see how much Joss put elements of himself in the character.

I know I just went off on a Xander love-rant on a w/t board, so let me just add that there was also some great Tara and Willow stuff and I am SOOO HAPPY that they decided not to dance at the party, because as we've seen recently, that can be a scary thing to watch.

Dr.G posted 02-22-2001 07:58 EST (US)
LOL darin, you are so right, about Xander *and* Willow and Tara, scary stuff indeed...
Anyalvr, I think your reply ended up in the wrong thread, post it here, and for the record I agree with you as well.

------------------

"Hello! Tarasexual now..."

Anyalvr* posted 02-22-2001 08:21 EST (US)
Willow's love for Tara doesn't cheapen her love for Oz. NMR made a perfect case study of that. Willow will always love and care for Oz and hold a special place for him in her heart, but that doesn't mean she loves Tara
any less. Oz is the past and Tara is the future.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla, angel)

(moved to this thread by hugin)

calliope posted 02-22-2001 10:22 EST (US)
I'm sorry if my little rant seemed like I thought they were going to break up, that's the last thing i think will happen. I just noticed some tension between them in this ep, and it made me a little antsy. I dont think, however, that its that unreasonable to suggest that Willow may still think of Oz fondly from time to time. I dont think The Oz mention was entirely purposeless. I think they mentioned him for a reason. Ive heard rumors that Seth Green may come back for the season finale. Now, while I dont think it will be NMR all over again, that, among other things, is bound to cause some problems that will lead to a W/T reaffirmation of their love. That's what I think anyway. Maybe I'm just thinking this, because i'm in a similar situation. I'm in a very happy relationship, but sometimes my ex calls me and to quote Willow in NMR "I can feel it all coming back." That doesnt mean we're going to get back together, and it doesn't mean I love the person I'm with any less. I think Willow is in a similar situation. But you know, it doesnt have to revolve around Oz, I just think their relationship has been a little too perfect. Its a tv show, they go for drama. Perfect happy relationships dont stay that way very long on Buffy. They usually have at least some turmoil. Unless your Buffy, then your bound for inevitable heartbreak. So, maybe it wont be Oz that causes problems, maybe it'll be magic, or jealousy, or maybe one of them is put into mortal danger. Who knows? But I think in this ep they were laying some subtle framework showing that their relationship isn't all roses, so people wont be surprised when they do experience some real tension (and stay together of course). I think that's great anyway, I'd like to see them face some conflict and tension like real couples.

Btw, buffy doesn't reinvent old eps, but they have been known to bring back old storylines and characters just to cause conflict in the present storylines. So yeah, I can totally see Oz coming back for one episode, the season finale, maybe Tara gets put into danger or something, and Willow and Oz are forced to work together. They inevitably bond, but Willow is reaffirmed of her love for Tara. Possibly at the beginning of next season or something. I dont know, those are just some ideas. And yes, we have seen old-exes of characters coming back and causing conflict in their present relationships. Angel came back and caused problems between Riley and Buffy. Anya, as we know, was jealous of Willow and her closeness with Xander. Drusila came back recently and messed with Spike's head, or the chip in his head I should say. So, I dont think its that weird to suggest Oz returns and causes conflict. They wont break up, but it'll cause tension. At first I kinda thought I was making a mountain out of a molehill, but now that I think about it I'm even more convinced that the mention of Oz's name and Willow's reaction to it for the first time in eons meant something. Why would they mention it otherwise? Why would they bother to show Willow's reaction? Why would they not show Tara's reaction to indicate Willow was just bothered that Xander mentioned him around her? They, for whatever reason, wanted us to remember that line, because it will most probably become relevant in the future. I'm eager to see the shooting script to see what Alyson's intructions we're at that moment (if any). So, anyway, that's what I think..that's my final rant on the subject..

Dr.G posted 02-22-2001 10:36 EST (US)
Editing my entire post now:

Let us agree to disagree then. I will make my *final* rant here.

quote:

At first I kinda thought I was making a mountain out of a molehill, but now that I think about it I'm even more convinced that the mention of Oz's name and Willow's reaction to it for the first time in eons meant something. Why would they mention it otherwise? Why would they bother to show Willow's reaction?

Please reread Xita's replies to you. She has summed this up perfectly already, as did Corona.

Let me nitpick some more now: They *are* a REAL couple, angst or the lack there of has nothing to do with it. I am sure there will be angst for them. Like I said. Fine! I would not be surprised if there will be. But I do *not* believe that angst will have *anything* to do with them questioning their feelings for one another in *any* way.

Oz will return I am sure. He could return and stay for the rest of the series, but it won't matter. He will *not* come between Willow and Tara. Willow has made her choice and Oz has *accepted* it. Bless him.

Their love is AFFIRMED it does not need to be reaffirmed. They face conflict and tension every day. That is the kind of world they live in. The threat of a demon around every corner in itself should provide angst enough for anyone. Aside from that, it is not written in stone that all buffy couples must be miserable at one point or another.

W/T are in a league of their own, they are completely real and believeable to me, and always will be, even if all they do from now on is moon after each other, and would never know angst if it walked up and kicked them in the ass.

Time will tell which one of us is right.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 22, 2001).]

xita posted 02-22-2001 12:43 EST (US)
Actually Calliope, none of those were recycled triangles. Angel had never met Riley. That was the first time. Anya and Willow had not gotten into a argument about Xander before. That was the resolution, I don't expect Anya to be jealous of Willow again. We never saw the xander/oz/willow triangle again or the cordy/xander/willow triangle. And Drusilla. She came back but the tension was different this was a Buffy/Spike/Drusilla triangle. Previously they had a Drusilla/Angelus/Spike triangle. So the writers have said they would love to bring Seth back for an episode if they could find a good story for it. I don't think rehashing the triangle is the way they would do it.
So I disagree, ithink Oz would likely come back but not to get in the middle again. I expect most of those season finale appearances to be cameos. I think there will be angst between them but I am sure that the writers will find a real clever way of bringing this forth. Gudanov posted 02-22-2001 12:55 EST (US)
It's really hard for me to see an Oz and Willow subplot coming up. It's the season finale, I don't see how they're goning have enough episode time for it. I also agree it would just be a rehash to do it and that's the last thing I think they'd want in a season finale.

I also can't imagine Joss doing something that will make it look like Willow is just bi-curious and will get over it. There will be angst because this is BtVS, but I think they'll be careful about. Like so many others, I suspect Willow going too fast, too far with magick will be the most likely source.

xita posted 02-22-2001 22:43 EST (US)
You know it's weird the way people see different things. I was just reading some posts where people who miss oz felt Willow had no reaction. They wanted a real reaction to the mention of his name. tommo posted 02-23-2001 04:21 EST (US)
Okay, I haven't seen this ep so shoot me if I don't know what I'm talking about, but people wanting a reaction to Oz's name are pissing in the wind, in my opinion.

You can't compare Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara.

You *shouldn't* compare Willow/Oz and Willow/Tara.

Oz is Willow's ex. Gay now?

Willow is secure in her relationship with Tara.

Nuff said?

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I just know she likes Willow, and she already has one of those.

lost. posted 02-23-2001 10:23 EST (US)
Just a little...randomness:
In the last scene where Tara is seen in the episode, she's wearing jeans. Did anyone else snicker and say "pants day" ? Please tell me I'm not alone in this... wiccie posted 02-23-2001 10:44 EST (US)
Hi lost,

You're not alone - I think that everytime I see W/T in jeans...But then that's why I wrote the story;~)

Glad you liked it!

xita posted 02-23-2001 11:11 EST (US)
Oh, god yes that's so funny. Pants day! Woo hoo! I tell you, it was nice to see Tara in jeans. I can't even recall the last time that happened. I want to say TIIT, but I may be way off. calliope posted 02-24-2001 11:25 EST (US)
you know, this discussion on w/t/o has given me an idea. Now, I may regret this later, but how about we start a betting pool on our W/T speculation. We could all lay down our theories and place our bets. I have no idea how those bets would be settled, or what we would be betting for (fics, bragging rights?) , but it could be fun. Maybe you guys have some ideas on how this could work. wiccie posted 02-24-2001 12:04 EST (US)
Xita, the last time I specifically remeber W&T wearing jeans was NMR. I'd have to obsessively watch all the eps from then on to give a definitive answer.

Then again, it's a rainy Saturday in SF, and for once I have the day to myself;~)

For the pool, my scenario is that Oz comes back for one or two eps to help w/Glory, and he and Tara have a warm, amiable heart-to-heart about loving Willow and keeping her happy. They don't become close friends, but at least he no longer wolfs out at the sight of W/T.

As for the stakes...How about stakes or steaks?*G*

tvsurfer posted 02-24-2001 15:11 EST (US)
Oz and Tara were kind of "close" whispering in each others ears in restless. so I think its a good bet that if Oz is back in the 100th eppie that he apologizes to Tara for wolfing out on her and that they bond a bit over willow xita posted 04-02-2001 02:52 EST (US)
Ok, so I was watching my w/t tape and came upon the scene at the party. The scene where Buffy is dancing with Xander. You can see Willow and Tara and Anya in the background. You can barely see them but as the camera pans you can see them for a second at a time in between Xander and Buffy. I really liked this scene because I always love how they are still in character even when they aren't the focus of the scene. I could tell that they were looking at each other and smiling and then right as they bring the camera closer to them, Willow does the cutest thing. She smiles real sweetly at Tara and kinda bends her knee and does a little dip and moves her head to the side. It's very cute. Upon closer inspection. I can see that right before this Tara has her hands forward then they go back behind her back. So, I am thinking what was she doing. And then I rewind and see that when she had her hands forward that she also bent her head forward. It looked like she was drinking. So, I started to think and then I saw that Willow kinda brought her drink back. So I have decided this is the cutest moment ever because Willow was sharing her drink with Tara and Tara took a sip and Willow smiled thinking it was adorable. I loooooooooooooove this. Sharing a straw and a drink is just terribly romantic!

[This message has been edited by xita (edited April 02, 2001).]

Dr.G posted 04-02-2001 03:12 EST (US)
Wow. Not that I don't believe you, but I am going to rewatch this scene, very very carefully, so I can give an informed opinion on this matter.

Warduke posted 04-02-2001 10:11 EST (US)
After reading this, I watched that scene again and you’re right xita, W/T were sharing the same drink…OMG…that is so sweet and romantic

And the smile Willow gave Tara and that little dip, that was soooo cute

I also have to say xita, this is VERY observant of you; no one ever noticed that before…what else have the rest of us missed?

xita posted 04-02-2001 10:29 EST (US)
Warduke, oh... lots of tiny little details. I shall do my best to point them out... as time allows

Dr.G posted 04-02-2001 10:33 EST (US)
Shrimp are tiny aren't they?

april posted 04-02-2001 10:36 EST (US)
yes, i noticed this too, maybe the second time that i watched that scene. i guess i didn't think anything of it, because i share drinks with like everyone i know! just call me a 'soda whore' if you must...my friends and i just always reach across the table and help ourselves to whatever we're drinking. unless one of us has a cold or something. then we keep our drinks to ourselves.

this is probably waaaaay more information about my drinking habits than you ever wanted to know...

Catwoman posted 04-02-2001 21:40 EST (US)
You soda whore! Heh heh, don't worry, i do exactly the same thing with my friends so you're not the only soda whore in the world. W/T sharing a drink is very romantic and cute though

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"And I happen to think mine is the level head and yours is the one things would roll off of."

BBOvenGuy posted 04-03-2001 02:17 EST (US)
Just for the record, Willow has shared sodas with Xander before. Food, too. There were a couple of instances back in early Season 2, most notably during the scene in Reptile Boy where Xander is talking about sneaking into a frat party to protect Buffy and/or catch an orgy.

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited April 03, 2001).]

Jon@han posted 04-03-2001 13:51 EST (US)

If there is ever any need to have a betting pool, I volunteer to be the bookie.

Yes.... send me your money.... I will see that it all goes to the proper recipient- er, recipientS.

No, really.

Ask anyone. I am the very model of fiscal responsibility.

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Rev.Jon@han

Catwoman posted 04-03-2001 21:02 EST (US)
I know that Willow and Xander have shared their food before, but Willow and Tara are just so much cuter! In my opinion anyway. I used to be a W/X shipper in the olden days.

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"And I happen to think mine is the level head and yours is the one things would roll off of."

BBOvenGuy posted 04-03-2001 22:00 EST (US)
Oh yes, definitely Willow and Tara are much cuter. I'm merely pointing out that Willow is consistently Willow. Also that Tara has reached Xander-level in terms of Willow's personal intimacy (which isn't always the same thing as sexual intimacy), and that says a lot.

by **april** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:13 pm

posted 02-20-2001 19:13 EST (US)
omg, paula, the preview was so intense! this is the first time in a while that i actually freeze-framed through a preview several times (yes, i am obsessed). of course, it was all about people's reactions to joyce's death. there was an amazingly moving shot of willow with tears streaming down her face. there was another shot of willow running into a room that looked like either her dorm room or tara's.

and then...there was this *gorgeous* shot of tara standing by a window and turning around. hair down. i got the impression that she might be turning to see willow run into the room, but previews are misleading, so you can never tell.

willow looked devastated by the news of joyce's death, though, so perhaps we'll see tara comfort her.

there were also many shots of buffy's reaction, including a scene with her and dawn on the floor of what appears to be a darkened morgue (spooky!), and another moving scene of giles hugging a completely shell-shocked buffy.

there was a shot of someone's bloody knuckles (i think giles'). and some enigmatic shots of room interiors that were hard to place. also a very fast shot of someone busting through a door, hard to catch if you're not watching it in slo-mo.

the preview began and ended with someone drawing a black outline on a canvas, and the second-to-last shot was a drawing of a woman (?) on an easel in a classroom somewhere. strange stuff. the last dialogue was "try not to disturb the body".

the whole thing had a very eerie soundtrack. this is going to be an intense, hard to watch ep i think. but i'm looking forward to it. looks like we'll really get to see what the scoobies are made of.

by **BlackLab** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:15 pm

posted 02-20-2001 19:15 EST (US)
Blah episode, but much W/T cuteness, as described above. I wasn't expecting the ending and actually got a hard feeling in my stomach.

The promo for next week (from memory only): Buffy runs through the house, flatline on a monitor with "there was nothing we could do", Buffy & Dawn on the floor probably in a morgue, "Was it painless?", Buffy lying on her back possibly same room, Willow crying hard (in a bra or camisole), Buffy getting hugged by Giles, Xander & Anya at the hosptital or Summers' house, Willow running into the Summers' house (fully dressed), Tara turning her head away from a window with blinds - all intercut with a shot of a man drawing a woman reclining (in an art class?) - and ending with "What should I do?" "Don't disturb the body."

Augggghhhhh!

by **TyRex316** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:20 pm

posted 02-20-2001 19:20 EST (US)
Paula-The previews were mainly either brief shots of everyone reacting to the news. Saw Willow crying and running from what looks like her dorm room. My immediate guess was that once hearing the news everyone thinks it has something to do with Glory and checks on their SO's. Saw a brief shot of Tara turning maybe in surprise from Willow bursting into her room? Hopefully a nice a hug and willow repeatedly saying 'you're alright, you're alright.' Also could hear what sounded like Giles and xander's voice, ep might be spike light though no sign of him in the preview.

Onto the ep tonight. It was hard to concentrate on it though especially if you knew beforehand what was coming at end. The scenes of Joyce all happy and excited were kinda depressing to look at. Loved Tara's role in this one though, god the woman can even arch eyebrows sexily-LOL. And the coolest had to be her standing up to Spike. I love this confidence streak in her lately and hope we see more examples of it. Giles and Willow's reaction to Tara's 'ass' quip was hilarious.

by **Beautiful Tara's Girl** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 5:54 pm

posted 02-20-2001 19:54 EST (US)
Yeah, I can't even comment on the final scene. It honestly chilled my spine. I might even cry next ep, and I'm NOT a crier.

So I'll say this: why has no one else commented on "I don't think she's a Code Red. Is there a Code Pink?"

...IMMEDIATE cut to a smirking Tara...

Heh. HEH.

~BTG
(heh)

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"We are the music-makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams."
-Willy Wonka

by **calliope** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 6:03 pm

posted 02-20-2001 20:03 EST (US)
well, I dont know if anybody felt this too, but I kinda got some bad vibes from the W/T scenes in this ep. They were cute don't get me wrong, but I seem to remember someone saying things weren't gonna be all roses for them, and I can't shake this ominous feeling that roseless times are ahead. Did anyone notice willow's reaction after that coversation about Oz? And how about her sympathy for warren, because "sometimes its just easier to have somebody in your life." Sounded alot like she was talking about her and tara, especially since it came right after the whole oz conversation. Also, lately, I've been noticing that Tara seems much more into the relationship than Will does. I guess I'm just really worried, maybe somebody can talk me down.

by **hypergirl** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 6:08 pm

posted 02-20-2001 20:08 EST (US)
Well.....I was kicked off of the good computer and forced onto one of the "ghetto computerz" before I could upload many of my little pics tonight....anywayz ...two of the decent ones that I have are of Tara's "look" after Willow does her little checking out....hah Ashley got a digital camera yesterday for her birthday which is tomrrow...she was "playing" with it...and decided to take these pics LoL Anywayz....
http://hypergirlh.tripod.com/THELOOK.jpg
http://hypergirlh.tripod.com/THELOOK2.jpg

Not top quality...but ....they're still nice. LoL Anywayz....if I don't end up going to school tomorrow *been sick for nearly two weeks now...itz time for it go away* I shall upload the rest of the about ....eh 17 I took ...unless someone gets some better ones up by then. Anywayz .....I'm going to hush for now.....

Ciao -
ºAshleyº

by **BlackLab** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 6:15 pm

posted 02-20-2001 20:15 EST (US)
BTG: "D'oh!" The memory of most of the episide started to trail off my mind after that last scene, or I would have noted that quote. And we all know what red & pink are the most popular codewords for...

by **april** » Tue Feb 20, 2001 6:48 pm

posted 02-20-2001 20:48 EST (US)
btg, i noticed that right away! i was going to comment on it, but then i wrote my long summary abut the preview, and i wanted to wait a bit before posting again.