General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

[All4W/T]

I am delurking for a moment to make a comment and pose a question..I love this thread and the insightful comments regarding the upcoming episodes made by all those who post here

I am nowhere near as insightful and have only recently started watching BtVs on a regular basis..Originally because of the mostly female cast and the strong female characters..More recently, being the lesbo that i am, because of the W/T relationship..Be still my heart***

It was mentioned earlier that the Normal Again episode ended with no apparent resolution..It left me with the feeling "is it live or is it memorex"?? Was Buffys' reality the one where she goes catatonic and saves her friends or the drug induced one where she is given the antidote?

Im a rookie at supposition, but I tend to wonder if perhaps this will come into play in the upcoming episodes, seeing as how Joss does like to mess with peoples realities.

My question would be, did Warren know that the demon had the capability to mess with peoples minds with his "venom"? Or did he just assume the demon would kill/hurt Buffy??

If Warren did know, could he have somehow gotten ahold of some of this "venom" and created a mojo of his own that would mess with the scoobies realities? He would have them all in a quandry, wondering what is real and what isnt..

I may be way off base, but it just seemed kind of strange he never gave Buffy a second thought after he sicked the demon on her..At least as far as i detected..This would play into the theories that have been discussed here as far as resets or alternate realities.
Just curious about the "kittens" thoughts on this..going back to lurking now..

------------------
100%Les and single hehehe

[the literary exterminator]

Well, Coma, page six is not gone for me; consequently, I can bring you the following quotation:

quote:

---

Originally posted by BigMac:
Just got the june issue of SCIFI in it Marti said " There's not much I can tell you except that a lot things that have been put in motion this season are going to explode. I think the fans are sort of converned, you know, what's the big bad this year? Where's the real menace? I think everybody's going to feel very satisfied about how everything comes into play" She also said they'll be a "sort of" cliffhanger for Buffy.

---

quote:

[Coma]

Thanks lit.
Interesting quote, I wonder if she means the cliffhanger will be for the show or the character herself?

[Jen/jennpurr]

Braids, I was just wondering what episode the last quote in your sig is from? I have heard that, but for the life of me, I can't place it. Help?

Jen

------------------
Tara: I am, you know
Willow: What?
Tara: Yours

[the literary exterminator]

I know you weren't asking me, but ...

It's from when Buffy's talking to the Social Services person in "Gone".

[lindabarlow]

Hi, everyone, long-time lurker delurking here.

I've posted on other bbs supporting the possibility of a reset (although I've no idea whether or not it'll happen, but the plot elements are certainly in place).

One point occurs to me, though, that I'd love to see clarified, perhaps by Ed? Seems to me that if we actually see Warren making a wish (or anybody, for that matter), no one will take anything that happens subsequent to that wish very seriously. We know from our prior experience with wishverse scenarios that they can be reversed or reset. If ME really going to give us a happy ending after first creating all the turmoil and angst associated with killing a beloved character and turning another beloved character evil, won't they do it in a manner that we can't anticipate instead of one we've already seen twice before?

Seems to me the reset, if it comes, will have to be something other than a wish made to a vengeance demon, or people will be "Ah hah! Wish! That amulet is history!" from ep 19 onward. Fortunately, other methods do exist, including the nerds' time altering devices.

--Linda

[theatremouse]

quote:

---

Well, if she does, how can she reverse everything? ....if Anya smashes her amulet, the world returns to normal, but Anya is mortal. Is this right? Or am I completely missing something?

---

i would like to point out that which has been ignored rather a lot on the anyanka wish un-doing part. she doesnt have to break her amulet to undo a wish. she can just, whoosh, and undo it. Y'all remember OAFA?
crude recapeople stuck in house. people wanna leave house. people call hallie and say "what'sup with that yo. you suck." hallie says "deal. you're mistreating a child ." hallie tries to whooosh away. hallie cant cuz of her own curse. hallie undoes curse. all well and good again.

RIGHT THERE. BOOM!

look at it! ME showing a BIG HUGE way vengeance wishes can be UNDONE, without ANYbody turning mortal. (unless of course the wish was mortal-a-fying someone, in which case of course that would be the undoing....) but anyway, yes, we know this, yet seem stuck on the anya sacrifice possibility. it just strikes me as being incredibly idiotic of anya, if shes all caring about xander and wanting to save him by ungranting a wish, that she'd doom herself, rather than just pull a hallie-whoose and undo the freakin wish the boring way.
anybody thoughts?

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.

[This message has been edited by theatremouse because apparently the word "ME" is too hard for me to spell... oy.(edited March 24, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by theatremouse (edited March 24, 2002).]

IP: Logged

maudmac
Doll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 78
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 24, 2002 04:42            

---

*misses Tito*

(Now, before anyone who doesn't remember Tito starts, he's Xander's plumber friend. I just miss him. That's all.)

*sighs wistfully*

Those were the days.

IP: Logged

Ari
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 24, 2002 04:46               

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There's a difference in ending a curse and reversing it. In OAFA, Halfrek ended the curse and they all could leave. But it didn't undo anything that had happened as a result of the wish. RedShirt boy was still hurt, everyone still knew about Dawn's stealing, and etc.

Reversing a wish means going back to the moment it was granted and changing the timeline as if it never happened at all. And we've only ever seen that happen with the smashing of Anya's original pendant in The Wish.

Nothing else (on Buffy, anyway) has ever been shown to actually affect time itself. All the spells and gadgets just altered certain people's perception of time.

Ari

IP: Logged

JustSomeGuy
Doll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 72
Registered: May 2001 posted March 24, 2002 05:03               

---

Ok, I do'nt know if this should go here or not; as usual, if the mods want to move it or delete it, I'm cool..

So yesterday I had this neato dream (I work nights, sleep days, etc.); I was kinda almost awake, but not quite; aware of the physical world but not a part of it yet.
My best dreams come to me while I'm in this state.
Anyway, it was the last episode, near the beginning, and all hell was breaking loose, or about to; but just as things were getting beyond-the-pale, no-turning-back-ever grimgrimGRIM..
We hear Joss yell "CUT", somebody else yell "Break for lunch!", and the camera pulls back to reveal Joss, Marti, a camera crew, lighting, trailers, etc.
But what nobody notices is how freaked/numbed out our actors look..
Buffy is all slack-jawed, Xander is going "what the hell?..", Willow is caught between confusion and rage bordering on catatonia, Anya about the same.
Willow suddenly goes "OW!", and leans over and pops something out of her eye.
She looks at her hand and goes, "Contacts?".
Anya touches her demony face, and says, "M,makeup?".
Marti then walks over and hands them all scripts and tells them theres been a slight rewrite for the next scene, and could they go over it a little during lunch?
As if mezmerized, they each look at their scripts. Willow reads through the revisions, then on to finish the whole thing- then suddenly breaks out sobbing, tears welling up in her eyes, and blurts out, "She-she's alive?" Then we hear a familiar voice say, "What? Whose alive? What'd Marti do now?"
Everyone's head snaps up, then the camera cuts to-
Amber Benson.
And that's when I fully wake up, reach over to my clock to see the time, and suddenly remember, "Oh yeah.. one of the working titles for this ep is "Real", is'nt it?"
*sigh* my sweet dreams fairy must really love me..
Guy.

[This message has been edited by JustSomeGuy (edited March 24, 2002).]

IP: Logged

quote:IP: LoggedmaudmacDoll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 78
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 24, 2002 04:42            

---

*misses Tito*

(Now, before anyone who doesn't remember Tito starts, he's Xander's plumber friend. I just miss him. That's all.)

*sighs wistfully*

Those were the days.

IP: Logged

posted March 24, 2002 04:42             *misses Tito*

(Now, before anyone who doesn't remember Tito starts, he's Xander's plumber friend. I just miss him. That's all.)

*sighs wistfully*

Those were the days.
IP: LoggedAriCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 169
Registered: Jan 2002 posted March 24, 2002 04:46               

---

There's a difference in ending a curse and reversing it. In OAFA, Halfrek ended the curse and they all could leave. But it didn't undo anything that had happened as a result of the wish. RedShirt boy was still hurt, everyone still knew about Dawn's stealing, and etc.

Reversing a wish means going back to the moment it was granted and changing the timeline as if it never happened at all. And we've only ever seen that happen with the smashing of Anya's original pendant in The Wish.

Nothing else (on Buffy, anyway) has ever been shown to actually affect time itself. All the spells and gadgets just altered certain people's perception of time.

Ari

IP: Logged

posted March 24, 2002 04:46                There's a difference in ending a curse and reversing it. In OAFA, Halfrek ended the curse and they all could leave. But it didn't undo anything that had happened as a result of the wish. RedShirt boy was still hurt, everyone still knew about Dawn's stealing, and etc.

Reversing a wish means going back to the moment it was granted and changing the timeline as if it never happened at all. And we've only ever seen that happen with the smashing of Anya's original pendant in The Wish.

Nothing else (on Buffy, anyway) has ever been shown to actually affect time itself. All the spells and gadgets just altered certain people's perception of time.

AriIP: LoggedJustSomeGuyDoll's Eye Crystal


Posts: 72
Registered: May 2001 posted March 24, 2002 05:03               

---

Ok, I do'nt know if this should go here or not; as usual, if the mods want to move it or delete it, I'm cool..

So yesterday I had this neato dream (I work nights, sleep days, etc.); I was kinda almost awake, but not quite; aware of the physical world but not a part of it yet.
My best dreams come to me while I'm in this state.
Anyway, it was the last episode, near the beginning, and all hell was breaking loose, or about to; but just as things were getting beyond-the-pale, no-turning-back-ever grimgrimGRIM..
We hear Joss yell "CUT", somebody else yell "Break for lunch!", and the camera pulls back to reveal Joss, Marti, a camera crew, lighting, trailers, etc.
But what nobody notices is how freaked/numbed out our actors look..
Buffy is all slack-jawed, Xander is going "what the hell?..", Willow is caught between confusion and rage bordering on catatonia, Anya about the same.
Willow suddenly goes "OW!", and leans over and pops something out of her eye.
She looks at her hand and goes, "Contacts?".
Anya touches her demony face, and says, "M,makeup?".
Marti then walks over and hands them all scripts and tells them theres been a slight rewrite for the next scene, and could they go over it a little during lunch?
As if mezmerized, they each look at their scripts. Willow reads through the revisions, then on to finish the whole thing- then suddenly breaks out sobbing, tears welling up in her eyes, and blurts out, "She-she's alive?" Then we hear a familiar voice say, "What? Whose alive? What'd Marti do now?"
Everyone's head snaps up, then the camera cuts to-
Amber Benson.
And that's when I fully wake up, reach over to my clock to see the time, and suddenly remember, "Oh yeah.. one of the working titles for this ep is "Real", is'nt it?"
*sigh* my sweet dreams fairy must really love me..
Guy.

[This message has been edited by JustSomeGuy (edited March 24, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted March 24, 2002 05:03                Ok, I do'nt know if this should go here or not; as usual, if the mods want to move it or delete it, I'm cool..

So yesterday I had this neato dream (I work nights, sleep days, etc.); I was kinda almost awake, but not quite; aware of the physical world but not a part of it yet.
My best dreams come to me while I'm in this state.
Anyway, it was the last episode, near the beginning, and all hell was breaking loose, or about to; but just as things were getting beyond-the-pale, no-turning-back-ever grimgrimGRIM..
We hear Joss yell "CUT", somebody else yell "Break for lunch!", and the camera pulls back to reveal Joss, Marti, a camera crew, lighting, trailers, etc.
But what nobody notices is how freaked/numbed out our actors look..
Buffy is all slack-jawed, Xander is going "what the hell?..", Willow is caught between confusion and rage bordering on catatonia, Anya about the same.
Willow suddenly goes "OW!", and leans over and pops something out of her eye.
She looks at her hand and goes, "Contacts?".
Anya touches her demony face, and says, "M,makeup?".
Marti then walks over and hands them all scripts and tells them theres been a slight rewrite for the next scene, and could they go over it a little during lunch?
As if mezmerized, they each look at their scripts. Willow reads through the revisions, then on to finish the whole thing- then suddenly breaks out sobbing, tears welling up in her eyes, and blurts out, "She-she's alive?" Then we hear a familiar voice say, "What? Whose alive? What'd Marti do now?"
Everyone's head snaps up, then the camera cuts to-
Amber Benson.
And that's when I fully wake up, reach over to my clock to see the time, and suddenly remember, "Oh yeah.. one of the working titles for this ep is "Real", is'nt it?"
*sigh* my sweet dreams fairy must really love me..
Guy.

[This message has been edited by JustSomeGuy (edited March 24, 2002).]

[maudmac]

*misses Tito*

(Now, before anyone who doesn't remember Tito starts, he's Xander's plumber friend. I just miss him. That's all.)

*sighs wistfully*

Those were the days.

[Ari]

There's a difference in ending a curse and reversing it. In OAFA, Halfrek ended the curse and they all could leave. But it didn't undo anything that had happened as a result of the wish. RedShirt boy was still hurt, everyone still knew about Dawn's stealing, and etc.

Reversing a wish means going back to the moment it was granted and changing the timeline as if it never happened at all. And we've only ever seen that happen with the smashing of Anya's original pendant in The Wish.

Nothing else (on Buffy, anyway) has ever been shown to actually affect time itself. All the spells and gadgets just altered certain people's perception of time.

Ari

[JustSomeGuy]

Ok, I do'nt know if this should go here or not; as usual, if the mods want to move it or delete it, I'm cool..

So yesterday I had this neato dream (I work nights, sleep days, etc.); I was kinda almost awake, but not quite; aware of the physical world but not a part of it yet.
My best dreams come to me while I'm in this state.
Anyway, it was the last episode, near the beginning, and all hell was breaking loose, or about to; but just as things were getting beyond-the-pale, no-turning-back-ever grimgrimGRIM..
We hear Joss yell "CUT", somebody else yell "Break for lunch!", and the camera pulls back to reveal Joss, Marti, a camera crew, lighting, trailers, etc.
But what nobody notices is how freaked/numbed out our actors look..
Buffy is all slack-jawed, Xander is going "what the hell?..", Willow is caught between confusion and rage bordering on catatonia, Anya about the same.
Willow suddenly goes "OW!", and leans over and pops something out of her eye.
She looks at her hand and goes, "Contacts?".
Anya touches her demony face, and says, "M,makeup?".
Marti then walks over and hands them all scripts and tells them theres been a slight rewrite for the next scene, and could they go over it a little during lunch?
As if mezmerized, they each look at their scripts. Willow reads through the revisions, then on to finish the whole thing- then suddenly breaks out sobbing, tears welling up in her eyes, and blurts out, "She-she's alive?" Then we hear a familiar voice say, "What? Whose alive? What'd Marti do now?"
Everyone's head snaps up, then the camera cuts to-
Amber Benson.
And that's when I fully wake up, reach over to my clock to see the time, and suddenly remember, "Oh yeah.. one of the working titles for this ep is "Real", is'nt it?"
*sigh* my sweet dreams fairy must really love me..
Guy.

[This message has been edited by JustSomeGuy (edited March 24, 2002).]

[Corinthian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by maudmac:
*misses Tito*

(Now, before anyone who doesn't remember Tito starts, he's Xander's plumber friend. I just miss him. That's all.)

*sighs wistfully*

---

Actually, Tito can be found on the Lido desk of the Everything's Gonna Be Okay PARTY Cruise Ship Mega Love. But it's a working vacation... he fixed a water heater problem last week and we didn't wanna let him go so easily so we offered him a part-time job as bartender.

quote:

[Scarecrow]

The Kitty board.. the home of W/T.. and various uncovential ships!

Miss Kitty / Amy the Rat!

Xander / Tito

Oz / Unending rumours of his return that are about as likely as flying spaegtti that turns blue on tuesdays.

------------------
Trust In Joss

"Liberate tutemet ex inferis"

"Me and Willow always know how to find each other"

"Black mircles, dark wonders, another life of unknown pleasures"

"There are some corners of the Universe that have bred the most terrible things, things that stand against everything we believe in. They must be fought"

[ensam]

okay. i've been pretty much following this thread and i haven't noticed anyone mention this (bigtime apologies if i've missed it -- my memory isn't always reliable...) but i just rewatched After Life and there's the bit where buffy is looking at the photographs of herself and her friends and they all turn to skeletons and back to normal. she tells the scoobies the next day (quoting from the shooting script here):

BUFFY
Um... the photographs. Of us.
They changed.

TARA
How did they change?

BUFFY
They were dead. I mean, we were
dead. Like dead bodies. Then
they were okay. I thought maybe it
was me. That I was going crazy.

a sign of things to come?

well, its tenuous to say the least, but... you know... i am so hopeful desperation girl here. all looking-for-clues and stuff...

------------------
I'm very seldom naughty.
Willow, Restless, Season 4 finale.

[Epicurus]

Someone on the BC&S reminded me of a quote said at the Beta Bronze. They thought it was DeKnight but David Fury actually said...

Tara's already dead. She died off-screen. The others haven't found the body yet.

Can you believe he is twisted enough to say something like that?

and this is the person who's going to be writing the last episode this year.

------------------
The Paradox of Fiction
http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/f/fict-par.htm

[The Partyman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Epicurus:
Someone on the BC&S reminded me of a quote said at the Beta Bronze. They thought it was DeKnight but David Fury actually said...

Tara's already dead. She died off-screen. The others haven't found the body yet.

Can you believe he is twisted enough to say something like that?

and this is the person who's going to be writing the last episode this year.

---

That was my post at the B C&S!

You are correct, it was in fact Fury who posted at the Bronze:

Tara's already dead. She died off-screen. The others haven't found the body yet.

DeKnight's was the "Over My Dead Body!" comment, and also something to the effect of "H,mmm, now who would want to kill Xander", if I recall.

quote:

[capricornmist]

Am I right in saying that Tara was contracted for 18 episodes this season?
Sorry if someone else has already posted this put I can`t find an answer anywhere.

If so she has appeared in 14 episodes so far, which obviously leaves 4 episodes. We know she appears in 18 as she makes up with Willow, 19 she has a make up session with Willow, 20 she *sniff* dies. Which leaves 1 episode or it could leave to if she doesn`t appear in 19, as I can`t see anything which confirms she is in this episode.

I smell something magicy going on here.

Or this could be just aload of crud and I am just clutching at straws!

Sorry if this has already been said.

Bends over ass in their air *bracing for moderater impact*

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"I want you, but i`m not giving in this time.
Goodbye to you, goodbye to everything that I knew.
You were the one I loved, the one thing I tried to hold onto."

[Ange]

Amber is contracted for 16 episodes this season, but she can do more like last year. She had the same contract and made 18 episodes. So that's more a 16-18 episodes contract. We'll have to see and wait to know in how many episode she'll be in.

Ange.

------------------
"Things are not always what they seem to be...." Shakespare.

[Scout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by All4W/T:
...If Warren did know, could he have somehow gotten ahold of some of this "venom" and created a mojo of his own that would mess with the scoobies realities? He would have them all in a quandry, wondering what is real and what isnt..

---

I think that’s an interesting idea. It reminds me of last season, when in “The Gift” the Scoobies attacked Glory with devices that had been featured in other shows during the season.

This year we’ve seen several items that can alter perception, including the invisibility ray Willow still had at the end of “Gone”; and you can add to that the demon venom that Warren used on Buffy.

But based on the spoilers we’re hearing, it sounds like Anya’s demon status is going to play a big role in the last few eps. They may come up with a big surprise at the end (maybe something related to ‘Normal Again’), but from what we’re hearing, and it makes sense, I think someone’s wish is going to be the catalyst that creates a unique reality where things happen based on the details of that wish.

I’d really like to know what the wish is because that would tell us if it removes free will or if it just starts a chain reaction of events. Hopefully we’ll get more details about the final eps soon.

quote:

[Still Waters Run Deep]

I originally posted this over in the location shoot, but its kinda speculative, so I've reposted here.

The stunt co-ordinator stated that Willow had run out of power, but that the fugitives B/X +2 had escaped in the police car.

If not do you think that Willow running out of gas [its been foreshadowed already, remember the curtains/drapes] will be her chance to get herself together once more, or for Buffy to bring her back into the fold, thus doing to Willow what Will did to her at the begining of the season.

Its speculation I know, and Mods if this needs removing from the Kitten version of 'War and Peace' be my guest.

------------------
love and kisses

Still Waters Run Deep

" Hi!..um..aw...shit...he he he....'Scuz me..er.. I did'nt mean to..er....expose myself to.. ,ya know..public...*groan* "

Amber...

[Jane Eyre]

I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet, but it just occured to me last night how much this scene where T and W reconcile could apply to what we know will happen. At first I just thought of the "things fall apart" part as perfect to describe the unravelling relationships this season, but presumably, the rest would speak to reconciliation on the parts of all the characters. If this was written with an eye to not only what HAS happened, but also what WILL happen, it kind of gives me hope that things will come full circle:

Tara: Things fall apart, they fall so hard.
Tara: There's so much to work through, trust has to build again on both sides,
you have to learn if you are even the same people you were, if you can fit in each other's lives, it's a long and important process...

what do you think?
hopefully...
Jane

[TyRex316]

It has to be some kinda 'wish' working here 'cause it's about the only other thing that would explain why Buffy and Xander are protecting those two. True, they may not be directly or indirectly responsible for Tara's death but they can't say the same for Katrina, the girl they were going to rape but 'accidently' murdered. They were just as culpable as Warren but it doesn't seem like they will ever answer for it. You know these spoilers are reminding me of that line from 'The Usual Suspects', "They thought they were men of will, but he showed them what will really was."

[Kendahl897]

Buffy and Xander aren't protecting Jonathan and Andrew because they think they're great guys and have suddenly formed this great new friendship with them. They're protecting them to try and stop Willow from killing them, because they know it's the wrong thing for Willow to do....that's it.

[spikeme]

Regarding the speculating on what can be happening, alot of boards feel the answers may be in OMWF. In the song, 'I've got a Theory', several ideas were mentioned.

Xander: 'It could be evil witches' (note: plural, we could have Willow and/or Amy)
Willow: 'Some kid is dreaming and were stuck inside some crazy nightmare'
Tara: was cut of by Anya
Anya: 'It could be bunnies' (bunnies obviously representing vengence spells that mulitiply quickly)
Anya again: 'It could be midgets' (the Troika had 'Shrink Rays' on their list of things to do)
Buffy: 'What can't we face if were together?'
'We have to try, we'll pay the price, it's do or die, hey, I've died twice.'

What if they all die as a result of a wish made by Warren? Then, Anya breaks the amulet and all the deaths are reversed. This way, they keep their memories, but all return to life. Like Buffy says in her song, she's died 2 times, the others haven't even died once.

[Epicurus]

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Partyman:
That was my post at the B C&S!...

...DeKnight's was the "Over My Dead Body!" comment, and also something to the effect of "H,mmm, now who would want to kill Xander", if I recall.

---

Ya know, I read your name but never put two and two together. duh

I think that Xander question is a very loaded remark. First Steve then Amber. Hmm...

Jane, I could definitely see that as bits of foreshadow for the coming events.
I’m betting they left that scene short and sweet like it is in order to have a longer, more in depth discussion between Willow and Tara next year as a result of episodes 20, 21, and 22 of this year. Really, we don’t need two scenes exactly the same right?
That’s my deluded theory and I’m stickin’ to it.
quote:

[Kendahl897]

But the problem with that theory is that next season starts up timeline wise about 4 or 5 months ahead. Which means that if they were going to have a discussion about the events of 19-22, you'd think they wouldn't wait 5 months to do it.
I guess I'm in the minority who thinks that if there is a reset, they won't have any memory of it. As for Willow and Tara, I think that they both know that there are still issues that they have to work through in their relationship, but they are to the point where they don't want to be apart anymore. These are issues that need to be addressed together...Trust, etc...

[Moondance]

Hellow Kitties. This is my first time posting on this board. I am am major fan of the Willow/Tara relationship and the news of Tara's death has upset me big time. I fell into a state of grief and part of me was annoyed at been so moved by fiction but you can't control your heart. Anyway here is my reflections on the upcoming tragedy. Love and thanks to all you Kitties.
The death of Tara sucks in many varied ways. Here's a quick list.
1. Tara we hardly knew ye. A lot of people objected to Tara in seasons 4 to 5 not because of homophobia but because they felt she was an annoying,wet, weak, under developed character. And Amber Benson herself apparently saw their point. She said in a recent interview "Tara is almost an appendage of Willow...she has not been given much to do on her own." I always liked tara and I was thrilled to see Tara emerge this season. Amber shined in the musical and she really connected in Tabula Rasa. An actor can only be as good their material and it really has only been in season 6 that Amber has been given good stuff to work with. Tara growing a spine and walking away from someone she loved and worshipped. Her developing bonds with Tara and Dawn. Tara is begining to emerge into an interesting character and now is the time to kill her? Why exactly?

2.Cheap drama. The death of Tara is simply a dramatic device to get Willow from point A to point B. Tara deserves better then to be wasted in order to cause "Dark Willow" to emerge and wreck havoc.

3.Creative bankruptcy. Tara is grievously hurt in ep 19 and Willow goes on a magical vengeance kick which sets in motion the events leading to the climax of the season. Does this sounds slightly familiar? Oh hang on the same bloody thing happened last season! And does'nt the idea of a White Hat crossing over to darkness in a "surprising" twist sound familiar? Do the names Faith and Angel ring any bells. Nah I don't think so.

4. Callous and cheap death. Buffy managed to reach unparalleled depths in it's depiction of grief and loss with it's portrayal of the loss of Buffy's mother. And of course Buffy's sacrifice in "The Gift" was both shocking and moving. So you would imagine that the Producers would be cautious about throwing death into the pot again. They would'nt just kill off a character just to stir up what what has been a dramatically inert and tedious season? Well according to Marti Noxon "you always have to have a death eventually". Gee thanks Marti. I'm so glad you're in charge now and that you are'nt worried about wallowing in cheap drama!.

5. Dead Dykes. Now this may piss some off but I believe that Buffy has a certain political and cultural responsibility. The vast majority of the portrayal of homosexuals in popular culture is either actively or passively negative. Willow and Tara represented a considerable break through in several areas. It was a incredible sweet natured portrayal of two people falling in love with each other who just happened to be gay. Also it was the longest term gay relationship in American television. Amber Benson (love that girl) described in several interviews how she has received many fan letters from young gays fans who found self confidence and validation in Willow's and Tara's story. I wonder how those people will fell when ME introduce a homophobic cliché right out of the celluloid closet. One sweet gay character is senselessly killed and the other slips into homicidal insanity. Great work ME. Marti Noxon rather testily said in in interview in Out magazine that "we did'nt ask to be role models for gay relationships". Well gee Marti just because you wish to cop out of taking responsibility for the messages and negative reinforcement you send in your show does not mean you'll get away with it. Especially when the supposed theme of the season is to grow up and take responsibility for your actions. So Noxon and Whedon should prepare themselves for a deserved backlash from gay fans of the show. Maybe they're doing their gays fans a favor and reminding them that they cannot expect positive reinforcement from the American media.

Well I hope I did'nt take up too much space and thanks for letting me vent.
I'd like to finally like to wish Amber Benson good luck with her future career and if you land another TV show I hope you're treated with more respect by it's producers.

[Kendahl897]

I think we need to wait until the season finale before we declare Tara dead and buried. There are alot of spoilers and rumors out there to suggest that she won't be at seasons'end.
Remember, it ain't over til the fat lady sings...........

[mat]

[Posted this on the BC&S too! *g*]

Spoiler Spec: Will the "Invisibility Ray" have a similar role to the "Troll Hammer" of Season 5?

I have been thinking about this theory for a while now. While re-watching the Gift we were suddenly reminded of two useful items collected throughout the season that could help to defeat Glory - the "Dagon's Sphere" and the "Troll Hammer".

Seeing the "Troll Hammer" reminded me of the "Invisibility Ray" in several ways:

- 'Troll Hammer' first seen in Ep 11 (Triangle)
+ 'Invisibility Ray' first seen in Ep 11 (Gone)

- 'Troll Hammer' used by the enemy (Olaf) then later by scoobs (Buffy)
+ 'Invisibility Ray' used by enemy (Troika) then later by scoobs (Willow)

- 'Troll Hammer' kept by scoobs (in Magic Shop)
+ 'Invisibility Ray' kepy by scoobs (Willow)

- 'Troll Hammer' not mentioned again till finale (The Gift)
+ 'Invisibility Ray' not mentioned again (Spoilers give no indication)

I expect that if Willow had it last then it is either in the Magic Box or at the Summer's house. Either way any of the Scoobs has access to it which leads me to think that: If Willow does go all dark and nasty then Buffy/Xander won't be able to get anywhere near her (for safety of their lives). In which case they could make themselves invisible to get close enough to Willow to talk to her or knock her cold or something. Plus there can be the whole risk factor (the "Troll Hammer's" was it's weight) that it can turn the user into an invisible goo!

Anyway just some ideas for people to play with

Mat

[Tatue]

Hi!

You're all talking about that reverse button and I really like the idea of it but I've got a question and I hope it hasn't been mentioned before...

The charm of Anya had been destroyed by Giles - so every wish she realized in the past was reversed, right?!
But if that's the case, then why did this deamon appear in Hell's Bells?

Or did I get something wrong there?

cu Tatue

[theatremouse]

quote:

---

Originally posted by spikeme:
Regarding the speculating on what can be happening, alot of boards feel the answers may be in OMWF. In the song, 'I've got a Theory', several ideas were mentioned.

Xander: 'It could be evil witches' (note: plural, we could have Willow and/or Amy)
Willow: 'Some kid is dreaming and were stuck inside some crazy nightmare'
Tara: was cut of by Anya
Anya: 'It could be bunnies' (bunnies obviously representing vengence spells that mulitiply quickly)
Anya again: 'It could be midgets' (the Troika had 'Shrink Rays' on their list of things to do)
Buffy: 'What can't we face if were together?'
'We have to try, we'll pay the price, it's do or die, hey, I've died twice.'

What if they all die as a result of a wish made by Warren? Then, Anya breaks the amulet and all the deaths are reversed. This way, they keep their memories, but all return to life. Like Buffy says in her song, she's died 2 times, the others haven't even died once.

---

dude, ya know, that's the first time someone's come up with a "song lyrics" theory that i actually kinda see as being plausible.
because frankly, interms of speculation, i'm really not on the song lyrics bus, simply because i know, it's sooo hard to write songs, especially good ones, and joss wrote that whole freaking musical, and he'd never done anything like that before, so i'm just tremendously doubtful (though he is a genius) that he'd be able to both compose and lyricize all those songs, and be able to fit in ALLLLLLLLL the foreshadowing clue-type-ness that has been speculated. i mean obviously he wrote all the lyrics, and wrote them intentionally, but the likelihood that he's soooooo good, that he could make all those lyrics as foreshadowing WORK, is feels like we're stretching it. so if it turns out all the songs were chock full of explanations, good times, but i personally am not going anywhere near the pondering it ahead of time. just like, you know nOBODY wouldve guessed the clock thing when the first saw it, but it makes sense to say so later.
but yeah, now that i've been all neg song, i do have to say spikeme, that youre suggestions are intriguing...

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.quote: