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General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

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General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby bzengo » Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:07 am

quote:
Originally posted by shellybean:
Jesus christ Bzengo, that was a hell of a long post. I know I've never read one that long before! My eyes still hurt! I can't really remember what you wrote because of the pain

lol.

Yeah, you should have seen what it was like to write it, and then proof it. And there were still typos.

I don't know. I go in and out of believing we're going to get a reset. There are of course, no actual spoilers to indicate this. Its all a matter of trusting Joss and trusting in our own interpretation of the text to date. It really takes something for me - and I'm sure for everyone else - to keep creating that everything is going to work out fine. And that may be the point. I still think the writers are writing our themes this season, the emotional arcs that we, the fans are to go through, in a kind of meta-textual new-media kinda way. That belief, and that Joss would only do the cliche in order to stand it on its head...

Soon enough we shall know. Till then, I remain constantly creating context that all will be fine, and Joss can be trusted.

bzengo
Keeper of the sacred reset button
Evil Willow Well, look at me. I'm all fuzzy.
quote:

bzengo
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Web Warlock » Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:13 am

Hey Kitties.

Just had another thought.

If you are unhappy with the season and things don't get any better (ie. Tara stays dead, Willow stays evil) then let Fox/UPN/Me know and don't buy anymore of the DVDs or the OMWF soundtrack (if it ever comes out).

Money speaks louder than words. And make sure they know.

Now it everything turns out in the end (it could!) then I'll be the first in line for Season 2 DVDs. Unless someone here gets them for me, they come out the day before my birthday!

Get your soundtrack and videos from the net. No money to the machine that will give us the death and destruction of our favorite characters. No ads in Variety, no poster campaings. Vote with your credit card. Turn off the TV and read W/T FanFics.

Warlock.

------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
My Willow&Tara Pages: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/willtara.php
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
--
I'm ahead of my time. But only by a week.
- Too Much Joy, "I Don't Know"

Web Warlock
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby All4W/T » Mon Mar 25, 2002 10:36 am

Shellybean, I apologize, I didnt mean to imply that next season was the final season..Hell i dont have a clue lol..Didnt mean to scare you, I was just going by a statement that was made on another page of the thread that it could be..My fault..

As for the scenario that Tara goes between worlds or however it was put to reunite Buffys human side and her slayer side, i really like that idea..

Does anyone remember what Anya said in the Wedding episode?? She and Xander are in the future and Xanders not himself, she says something about he is the way he is because "he couldnt save Buffy"..That was right before he took the frying pan and whacked Anya with it or so we were lead to believe..

Does anyone think that foreshadows something or was that just in there to show why Xander became the person he did?? Just curious..

------------------
Be careful what you wish for..

All4W/T
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby drlloyd11 » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:35 am

quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I doubt that since Tara won't remember it happening.

Also, if Ed's spoilers are true and Anya dies as a result of smashing her amulet, how will her sacrifice be explained to the Scoobies?


Ed's spoilers seem fake, everything he says about ep 18-20 disagrees with the script. I know these are trying times, but..quote:

drlloyd11
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby ready4scully » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:49 am

I'm fairly new to the Buffy universe, so please bear with me. I've seen all the episodes and the like so I'm caught up but I really started watching Season Five. The show always impressed me with its actors, writing, and of course, the creator, Joss Whedon.

I've been a big fan of "The X-Files" from the beginning...though not so much as of this current season, though that's another story. But the idea of a 'reset' or 'reversal' theme sorta puzzled me (before I read all these posts--that kinda cleared it up) until I put it in the context of the X-Files universe. Two completely different shows, but bear with me. I know not how many of you are XF fans, but I'll try to be as clear in my connection as possible.

In the fourth season finale, "Gethsemane," it began with Scully identifying a "body" who'd been shot in Mulder's apartment. The audience is supposed to believe that Mulder is the one dead. The episode now flashes back to 48 hours earlier or something like that, leading to a story about Mulder finding an actual alien, but only to learn that it was a hoax to make him believe, as well as Scully's metastasizing cancer. Panged with guilt, we see Mulder watching the Senate Hearings tape on alien life forms, crying...then cut to Scully saying to the FBI directors "Agent Mulder died, late last night, due to a self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head."

My mentioning of this is for two reasons. One, if I remembered correctly, it caused MAJOR speculation as to how they were going to get around Mulder being dead--or was he really dead, and if David Duchovny was signed on for next season, ect. I remember being upset about this very topic.

Mulder was in fact NOT dead, it was a lie designed by him and Scully to expose the hoax and its perpurtrators.

My point is, there may be a possiblity for a similar scenario to happen on Buffy. The audience will be led to believe something, intentionally mislead. It was interesting on XF, because usually the audience has an idea of what goes on even if the character's themselves don't. This time, the tables were reversed. Only the "characters" of Mulder and Scully knew what was really going down. The audience was left out of the loop. Sounds like this could be possible on Buffy.

Sorry if my post seems to tread over something already talked about. It sounded soo cool when I thought it up. And I couldn't resist the urge to mention my two fav shows in the same topic.

Justin

ready4scully
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby The Big I-T » Mon Mar 25, 2002 11:55 am

quote:
Originally posted by bzengo:
...I think Willow - and this is based on Afterlife and on Willow's actions at other places in the season as she mucked around with dimensions and threatened time travel - attempts to reset time/dimensions to before Buffy's resurrection....

Because Willow blames Tara's death on Buffy's failure to stop Warren – just as Dawn blamed Buffy for Willow's Rack night where Dawn's arm got broken - and Willow also blames Buffy for the fact that it was Buffy whom Warren was after. The Buffy who died in The Gift easily beat Warren and Jonathan in prior years; if she were not wrong, she would never have been stopped by silly nerd boys. Furthermore, if Buffy had stayed dead, then Warren wouldn't have even been coming by their house to attack her, so Tara would still be alive.

Clearly, Buffy must be unresurrected.

Willow will likely attempt to reverse the resurrection, using the power of Dawn the Key, or any other magic source she can find. My guess and hope is she attempts to use Dawn as that has the most dramatic oomph to it. Remember, Willow has already hurt Dawn once while under the influence, and she almost got Dawn killed as well.


Gotta hand it to you bzengo...you certainly do the homework and I have to say, your scenario feels much more ME-like in nature.

But a couple of things jump out at me...One is that some of the dialog that you reference from the scripts was cut from what actually aired; the overall theme behind the scenes may still have come across, but without a script, viewers aren't privvy to all that corroborating evidence. Not saying that your points aren't still valid and strong, just that it's a little risky to include dialog/scenes that have been cut...


The other thing that really gets me to thinking though, is your spec that Willow's primary intention is to turn back time to before Buffy's resurrection, because if she had stayed dead, Warren would never have had a reason to come after her, and Tara wouldn't have been killed in the process. But then why would Willow have expended the Dark energy necessary to track down, torture, and kill Warren before getting on with her plan for de-resurrection? Just for revenge? Revenge that will just end up being undone once she turns back time? Just seems like she would be more keen on wanting to conserve all her energies to give herself her best shot at succeeding with that plan, if that's what she had in mind all along. Especially since it's not something she's ever attempted before...

But I just keep thinking about the ramifications of Willow giving herself back over to Dark Magicks. And Willow is very aware of those ramifications. In AYW, Sam tells her that she's never before met anyone strong enough to resist the pull of Dark Magicks, and then she tells Willow about the two shamans who got caught up in Dark Magicks and ended up "just gone". Then, in OAFA, Willow resists the bullying from Anya and Xander who want her to use magic to break the spell on the house. So far, she has shown remarkable strength in being able to stop the magic use cold turkey. But she tells them quite clearly that she doesn't believe she would be able to stop again if she ever started back down that path.

Finding Tara murdered, though, makes her desperate enough to take that path. And it is an act of desperation... because she wants and needs desperately to be with Tara. I'm just not so sure that bringing Tara back to life is what she has in mind. First of all, she knows how Tara feels about resurrection spells, and you can only assume that Tara would feel even more strongly about being made the object of one, for whatever reason; plus Willow knows that there is a risk of bringing Tara back "wrong" or even slightly altered as in Buffy's case...and having witnessed what Buffy has gone through in the aftermath of her resurrection, Willow would not likely want to risk putting Tara through anything even remotely similar. Which leaves me more inclined to think along the same lines as what Xita said...that this is a suicide run on Willow's part. Plain and simple. She knows where the Dark Magick road leads and that is her ultimate destination...poof...gone...passed over into a "next" dimension...but a dimension that has Tara in it as well. Just a theory, or more like a niggling idea at this point, but it's got me to thinking that maybe what Willow really has in mind is to open up a portal to other dimensions -- through Dawn or some other means -- so that she can first find Tara and then cross over and be with her in whichever dimension that turns out to be.

At that point, Willow would be just as "dead" as Tara. But Buffy -- as someone who's been there done that twice already -- would be in the unique position of knowing just how to "navigate" the (possibly fiery) portal...and thus very capable of crossing through it and back in order to bring both Tara and Willow back to "this" dimension. And she certainly has more than enough motivation to attempt it...the fact that she loves them both dearly, guilt over Tara's death and how that's affected Willow, gratitude that Tara was there for her when she needed a confidante, the fact that Willow has always come through for her, etc. This time, she not only chooses life...she goes after it, seizes it, and yanks it right back with her. For all of them.

I still need to think further on this...see what holes I can poke in it. See if any confirmed spoilers pop up to either make me abandon this train of thought outright or pursue it further. But the one thing that would follow that is still in keeping with what you have outlined is that in this scenario, Willow would still return magic-less, inasmuch as she would have used everything she had in order to get to Tara.

Like I said...I need to go away now and do some more thinking...but thanks, bzengo, for providing me a fresh path to follow...In a way, it's really quite exhilirating to try to match wits with ME...especially seeing as how they hold all the cards and they get to deal them any which way they see fit. Won't keep me from trying, though...*damn them*


quote:
The Big I-T
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby tyche » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:24 pm

Okay, did some more thinking. (Yeah, I know I do this too much...)
Wouldn't it be interesting if a reset took the Scoobies back to exactly where they were at the start of season 5, time-wise - that is, as if it were still September 2001, BUT they had the knowledge and ability to not make the mistakes they've made this season? Then it would be as if they were being tested - and it would be fascinating to see what they would and wouldn't do again. And if there is a reset and everyone forgets everything - that'll just be a massive cop-out. Almost as bad as Pammie coming out of the shower in 'Dallas', in fact.
And I wonder if Spike will be affected by a 'reset' (or whatever) if he's still in Africa? Cause if he comes back to Sunnydale and remembers sleeping with Buffy but she doesn't remember sleeping with him .. well, yawnsville. I think at this point that the writers don't really have a clue what to do with Spike, so who knows?

------------------
I don't watch pornography. I just write it. - Joss
Tara: Nice baffroom.
Anya: (noddin') Like the bleedin' tile.
- 'The Yoko Factor' in Cockney

tyche
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Ange » Mon Mar 25, 2002 12:38 pm

Just one article. An interview of Marti Noxon, on the end of the season:

quote:
This just in! In the June 2002 issue of SciFi magazine, in the TV in Focus column are spoilers about the end of the season for the major sci fi shows on TV, including BTVS. There's also a picture of SMG with the new 'do and features on Star Wars Ep.2, Spider-Man and the Scorpion King plus a great cover with Yoda, Padme & Anakin (no, not as a love triangle!) Here's their scoop on BTVS:

"The only thing that's safe to say about the last few episodes of the show's sixth season is that Buffy probably won't die. However, besides that, all bets are off. "There's not much I can tell you except that a lot of things have been put in motion this season are going to explode," said executive producer Marti Noxon. "I think the fans are sort of concerned, you know, what's the big bad this year? Where's the real menace? I think everybody's going to feel very satisfied about how everything comes into play."

"Noxon also said they'll be a "sort of" cliffhanger for Buffy (italicized), which was given a two-season commitment when it moved to UPN this year. "I personally have really enjoyed this season. I think that we had played out the possibilities of big demon apocalypses, and how many times can this be the end of the world before you have people going, 'Yeah, whatever.' I just feel like this season, the stuff that's been going on, is a little more personal. We tried to shake it up this year and I've really enjoyed the episodes. I think we're going out on strong ones this season, and the last eight or 10 episodes are really killers."


Ange.

[This message has been edited by Ange (edited March 25, 2002).]quote:

Ange
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby bzengo » Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:01 pm

quote:
"Noxon also said...

I think we're going out on strong ones this season, and the last eight or 10 episodes are really killers."


Those writers. Puns are a real weakness for them...

Joss about Buffy's resurection: "I believe we will earn it." (Urn it.)

Anya's fear of bunnies - could refer to Warren (the place that bunnies live?)

Silly writers.


quote:

bzengo
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Ari » Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:30 pm

I disagree with the idea that they haven't paid for the resurrection spell. I actually think they've been paying all season long. Particularly Willow and Tara.

Willow has had to literally pay for her use of dark magicks by having Tara leave her and having to go through what seems like an intensely painful withdrawl. In other words, she had to lose her magic because she had abused it.

Tara paid the price for putting too much trust in Willow and her magic use by being betrayed by her, and having her heart broken and having to leave the home and family she had come to love.

Also, in a sense, they've paid the price for having Buffy back, by having it be a Buffy who for a long time really didn't want to be back at all.

I do think it's interesting though, that Anya was singled out twice in the events of the spell and it's aftermath. Hers was the candle that didn't want to stay lit, and afterwards, she said she knew they shouldn't have done it, but didn't say anything. Both Tara and Xander voiced their objections from the beginning, even though they did it anyway.


Ari

Ari
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby tommo » Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:33 pm

To me, the whole reset notion with no memory seems like an excuse for bad tv. I like the idea of them knowing what they did and being given the chance not to make the same mistakes twice. And that happens only on the Hellmouth, I assume, seeing as in real life, second chances are rare to non-existent.

However, I'm hanging fire so far to see just where this season is taking me. I do have the nagging feeling that I'm going to be asked to suspend my disbelief in the worst way possible, which lets not only Joss down, but his whole crew of writers and me as a viewer. Sigh. I don't know. Can't say yet.

------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

tommo
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Willow-n-Tara_1 » Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:46 pm

I was wondering, if they do the reset and Tara does come back and we have everyone remember what happened after Tara died will she then get back together with Willow? Yes Willow went to Black magic to avenge her death but would Tara forgive her...Would she forgive her for resurrecting her be it Willow or a wish. I don't know and I don't want to find out. I also don't think Willow could live with herself knowing she killed someone...yes it was in rage and she had given in to the dark magic but Willow is in there somewhere.

I think the reversal of whoever's wish needs to be with no remembering... they have already grown-up enough...

P.S. does anyone know yet if UPN is doing ep 21/22 together..and will that push the next ep bback a week???

------------------
From Out Aug01::: Joss on the Amber/Aly 'Kiss'
"Can we have one that's less like you're going to sleep together in about five minutes"

[This message has been edited by Willow-n-Tara_1 (edited March 25, 2002).]

Willow-n-Tara_1
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby zZeRiCc* » Mon Mar 25, 2002 1:49 pm

What does everyone think of the spoilers concerning tara's death? They are pretty much confirmed true..which really hurt me, one because tara has gone throught so much suffering, now this? & two..Tara is the one person that I really think is right for willow. It is almost as equally confirmed that Willow goes insane and reverts to black magick after tara is killed by Warren. I also heard * HERE ON THE KITTEN * that Willow goes SO FAR into black magick, that her hair, eyes, and clothes are black. BBovenguy and Xita were at a location shoot and saw this, and have pictures on the LOCATIO SHOOT posting topic, go there for more info..Does anyone have any insight on all this stuff? ITs just so depressing

*please keep ALL spoilers in the spoiler thread, do not start new threads about spoilers, read the FAQ.

zZeRiCc*
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby kpmuse » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:00 pm

Quote by Marti Noxon:
" I think we're going out on strong ones this season"

I dunno. I may not be a good judge about this, but I get the feeling that Marti is really way out of touch with what the fans might be feeling about these last few episodes.
I personally feel sick every time I think about what has happened in the last few episodes, and what the spoilers say about the last 5.
For her to say this feels like spin to me, and that disgusts me more.

I suppose I could wait to see how it turns out, but nothing will make me watch, enjoy or get any thrill out of the end of this season. This is not the show I've come to love. Someone has hijacked it, and I don't mean Dark Magic Willow.

Web Warlock, I totally agree. In fact, I already canceled all my comic orders, Season 2 DVD orders, Buffy Magazine. My letters are written and ready to go.

kris seething with bitterness again today

kpmuse
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:21 pm

quote:
Originally posted by kpmuse:
I dunno. I may not be a good judge about this, but I get the feeling that Marti is really way out of touch with what the fans might be feeling about these last few episodes.

Well, it's sort of Marti's job to give the media sound bites like that. Even so, I also can't help wondering what she's thinking. How could anyone look at Episode 20 and think people are going to enjoy it?

There's no evidence that a reset is coming. It's just that everything I've seen makes me feel like a reset is the least wrong way to end the season. (I've already given up hope that a right way to end the season exists, so I'm now hoping for an ending that's the least wrong.)

By "reset," I'm not talking about a situation where someone waves their hands and says "Ah la peanut butter sandwiches," and suddenly we're back to Willow looking for her clogs and wondering if the Buffybot will fool everyone at Dawn's school. What the characters have gone through this season needs to be acknowledged, and the lessons they've learned need to stick. I don't know exactly how they'd do it. I don't know how I'd handle a situation like this, largely because I hope I would never get myself into such a mess.

The three things that keep me hoping for some kind of reset are (a) Amber Benson isn't acting like someone who just lost her job, (b) the show is so screwed up that they're in danger of losing their entire audience if they don't fix it, and (c) there are a conspicuous number of characters around who have demonstrated an ability to manipulate time and/or reality. It's not much to go on, but it's all I have left at the moment.

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited March 25, 2002).]quote:

BBOvenGuy
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Robin » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:39 pm

I don't know what references MN had before she got part of JW's team, but I would feel much better if I knew JW is still the captain of this ship.
I would prefer him writing the finale as he did more or less in the past seasons.
This whole sixth season seems out of the known BtVS universe. And that seems to be the growing influence MN has and I'm sorry to state this clearly: I don't like the route the show has taken! Looks like the teacher is gone and all the kids are allowed to take over the ship.

Thinking of the fans of the single characters on the show and the so called "shippers", none of them can say they like what happens to the characters and the relationships in this season.
I don't get so far what MN is talking about, if she's thinking the fans are enjoying the stories that are offered this season, looks like she's creating her very own little show.

Robin
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Willowlicious » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:45 pm

quote:
The three things that keep me hoping for some kind of reset are (a) Amber Benson isn't acting like someone who just lost her job, (b) the show is so screwed up that they're in danger of losing their entire audience, and (c) there are a conspicuous number of characters around who have demonstrated an ability to manipulate time and/or reality. It's not much to go on, but it's all I have left at the moment.

I'm with you, Bob. Those are the three things I keep coming back to, as well. It's enough for me to hope that things will somehow be set right, but I'm tired of trying to figure it all out. I'm to the point where either ME fixes it and I work on forgiving them or they don't fix it and I'm off to watch the Gilmore Girls or any show that doesn't figure me for a masochist. (Good lord, Six Feet Under isn't anywhere near as depressing as Buffy and it's set in a damn funeral home!)

As for the whole end of the season being a big "mess," I'm reserving ultimate judgement for the moment. But I think ME may have seriously erred no matter what happens now. A reset will never change the fact that killing Tara and making Willow evil was a bad, bad idea to begin with. However, my one hope that ME might surprise me comes from the rules of writing. Many screenwriters start from the end then work backwards when developing intricate plots. You know what the outcome is BEFORE you plot the details. It keeps you honest and on target and keeps you from painting yourself into a desperate corner. I know that Joss plots far in advance, so it's not as though he didn't have a specific ending in place before ME decided on how to get there. You can't be painted into a corner if you actually started painting FROM the corner. Given that, I'm really hoping they have a worthy twist waiting for us. But I can't think of an outcome that is worth the horror of this plot.

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 25, 2002).]quote:

Willowlicious
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Lonewolf » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:51 pm

Hey guys, there is something that has been buggin' me about the whole Willow going back to dark magic thing, some spoilers say that she goes to Rack and he induces her lust for power or something like that, but am I the only one who remembers how Willow acted after she saw Rack in "Wrecked", she was high, and having a good time and laughing without a care in the world. I would think that if you are going to exact some revenge on someone you would want to high and laughing all the time, you would want to be focused and have a clear head. Thats what keeps buggin' me about this whole thing, that why I don't think Willow will go back to dark magic, what do you guys think?

Lonewolf

Lonewolf
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby willowtarasandwich » Mon Mar 25, 2002 2:52 pm

I'm still prepared to give MN and the others the benefit of the doubt, for I think it inconceivable that the season could end on so depressing a note. I'm waiting for the big surprise explanation ending which is suddenly so obvious that we all wonder why we didn't think of it and what we worried ourselves about! (Ever the optimist, cos it's better than the alternative)

On a totally different subject - I went to see my home town team Blackpool win a cup final yesterday against Cambridge - but even there I couldn't get Tara out of my mind, for Cambridge (who play in dark yellow) had a big banner reading "Amber Army". Now there's a thought!

willowtarasandwich
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:01 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Lonewolf:
some spoilers say that she goes to Rack and he induces her lust for power or something like that, but am I the only one who remembers how Willow acted after she saw Rack in "Wrecked", she was high, and having a good time and laughing without a care in the world. I would think that if you are going to exact some revenge on someone you would want to high and laughing all the time, you would want to be focused and have a clear head. Thats what keeps buggin' me about this whole thing, that why I don't think Willow will go back to dark magic, what do you guys think?

The spoilers that say she goes back to Rack are wrong. I believe she goes back to the "Darkest Magick" book she went to in "Tough Love," or something very similar to it.

What I've heard is that Warren is the one who goes to Rack, seeking protection, and Rack refuses to get involved because Willow is too powerful. I have no idea how Warren would know someone like Rack or how to find him. I'm just telling you what I've heard.

quote:

BBOvenGuy
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Sela » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:05 pm

This season, the writers have been in their own screwed-up, alien-laden, magic 'shroom consuming galaxy. Joss used to say that he liked to give people what they need, not what they want. The problem, this season, is that the writers don't KNOW what we need and they only THINK they know what we want. They're dead wrong. It's sad. It's scary. But more than anything, it's downright disappointing.

Marti has to save face in public. She's not gonna go out there and talk about how much this season sucks. If she did, frankly, I'd probably keel over with surprise. It would be refreshing (and validating to the fans), but unrealistic. Now, if she truly believes this season packs a lot of punch, then I'm shocked. I had such high expectations for the season. The potential was great, you know? But having Willow go all wicked, having Xander run with his tail between his legs, having Buffy engage in violent sex, and having Warren viciously kill Tara just amounts to a great big blight in the otherwise stellar BTVS universe.

I understand that a show needs to take risks. I understand that a show needs to evolve. But why is it that for this show, evolution means delving into the bowels of the human psyche? I don't know about anyone else, but I can evolve without becoming a sociopath. And I understand BTVS is all about the metaphors. But sorry, this season has been straight-up, in-your-face, take it or leave it crap.

I may hate the idea of a reset button. I may resent that whatever character developments have occurred might be null and void with the reset button, but I'd rather go into season 7 with a clean slate than have Tara really be dead. It's that simple.

For me, this season has been the Exxon Valdez. I'm just waiting for some cleanup crew to come in and take care of this. Joss? Anyone? Anyone?

Rant over.

--Sela

Sela
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby BBOvenGuy » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:11 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Sela:
why is it that for this show, evolution means delving into the bowels of the human psyche? I don't know about anyone else, but I can evolve without becoming a sociopath. And I understand BTVS is all about the metaphors. But sorry, this season has been straight-up, in-your-face, take it or leave it crap.

You've just hit squarely on why the spoilers of the past few weeks have been messing with me. Buffy was the show that brought me back to my writing after I had given up on the Hollywood game. I owe the show a lot for that. To see them now going down the long dark road upsets me, and then it makes me feel like there's something wrong with me for feeling upset. Is this where I'm supposed to go as well? Am I somehow less of a writer if I don't want to go there?

More than anything else, that's why I'm seriously thinking about bailing on the show even before the next episode airs. I can't take what it's doing to the attitude I have toward the career I want.

Knowing me, though, I'll probably stick it out for longer than I should.

quote:

BBOvenGuy
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Caesar » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:20 pm

Something good has to come out of all of this.

You have Spike getting his chip out.

Tara getting killed by a stray bullet.

Willow turning evil, killing Warren, and perhaps murdering innocients.

Anya goes back to being a vengance demon.

Anything I missed,

O'yah there is also going to be an attempted rape scene with Spike and Buffy. That and some other spoilers has got the Buffy and Spike fans pissed off to no end.


Does anyone else feal that Ms. Noxon is either a brilliant writer, and she will be able to pull this out in the end. Or, she doesn’t know what the hell she is doing, in which case large numbers of fans will be pissed off and leave the show. I guess only time will tell.

Caesar
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Sela » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:21 pm

Glutton for punishment, eh Bob?

I completely agree with you. There are better, fresher ways to depict growth and evolution. Yeah, for some reason, a lot of writers decide that darkness is the way to go, but I'm opposed to that idea. I resent being force fed the idea that darkness equals creativity, or that through darkness there will be some great lesson learned. I hate that. Sometimes, I see that it can happen, and it has, but for the most part, the greatest lessons or the most amazing growth experiences have come from good, healthy places. I don't have to wield a gun or have violent sex to prove that I've grown. I just have to internalize the experience. I think the writers are missing this point. Violent action does not equal growth. I think more can be said through the quiet intensity of interpersonal interaction than with a wicked witch on top of a moving bus. It could just be me.

Don't lose faith in your own writing. You don't have to go down the MN & ME path. They've screwed up, plain and simple. They've become slaves to convention and melodrama. Sad, but true.

--Sela

[This message has been edited by Sela (edited March 25, 2002).]

Sela
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby BigMac » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:29 pm

EP12 Doublemeat Palace Halfrek shows up and makes little comments on xander and Amy gives Willow a grift and knocks Willow off the wagon. EP14 Halfrek shows up again grants Dawn wish. Anya acts real strange and Tara stands up for Willow. So if the last eight or ten episodes are really killers everybody should for clues in the last five. I have and i beleave that in EP17 it tells us who will be alive by the end of EP22.

------------------

Tara:Assume Crash Positions

BigMac
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Peapod » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:49 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Web Warlock:
Hey Kitties.

Just had another thought.

If you are unhappy with the season and things don't get any better (ie. Tara stays dead, Willow stays evil) then let Fox/UPN/Me know and don't buy anymore of the DVDs or the OMWF soundtrack (if it ever comes out).

Money speaks louder than words. And make sure they know.

Now it everything turns out in the end (it could!) then I'll be the first in line for Season 2 DVDs. Unless someone here gets them for me, they come out the day before my birthday!

Get your soundtrack and videos from the net. No money to the machine that will give us the death and destruction of our favorite characters. No ads in Variety, no poster campaings. Vote with your credit card. Turn off the TV and read W/T FanFics.

Warlock.



That's what I am going to do. But I hope it doesn't have to be that way. If Tara does die, I will find any fan fiction that makes everything be okay in the end.
quote:

Peapod
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Ari » Mon Mar 25, 2002 3:50 pm

quote:
"The only thing that's safe to say about the last few episodes of the show's sixth season is that Buffy probably won't die.

When I read that, all I could think about was that line from Forever (which I believe Marti wrote)

"the exact thing he said was 'probably'."

quote:
However, besides that, all bets are off. "There's not much I can tell you except that a lot of things have been put in motion this season are going to explode," said executive producer Marti Noxon. "I think the fans are sort of concerned, you know, what's the big bad this year? Where's the real menace? I think everybody's going to feel very satisfied about how everything comes into play."

And this is why I tend to think that the Willow stuff is only a part of the larger big badness going on. There are a lot of other little seeds planted through the season waiting to explode, including Dawn's little rebellions, Giles' leaving and of course the B/S and X/A stuff.

I still have to think one way or the other it's all going to come down to Xander and Anya. They've been flying under the radar all season long and HB really felt like the thing that'll spark some kind of huge explosion and consequences for them. When asked about the rumored death, didn't Emma say something about the wedding being the catalyst for an interesting journey for Anya?

Also, I rewatched Restless again, and am more and more convinced most of it was foreshadowing this season. I think that's why they've made it a point to allude to it a few times, the last being Xander's line in Normal Again about having a hole inside. He's got the sucking chest wound swingin'. *G*

You've also got the whole vengeance discussion between X/A, Death of a Salesman, and in Giles' dream Xander referring to Anya's "big night."

Also, I thought it was interesting how in the beginning of Xander's dream, the soldier from Apocalypse Now is yelling "Oh my God! What happened to my men?" Could be another ref, like the 'King Ralph' thing which alludes to Xander being the last survivor of the group. Which is something both Amber and the writers have hinted at as well.

But, if there is a reversal, they are going to have to earn it. And that's why the sacrifice story still sounds like the most plausible one to me. Undoing it isn't enough. The action of undoing it has to come with some huge catch and consequences. That's how you earn it. And thematically that price should be paid by whomever was responsible for the badness to begin with. Because that's just the nature of the stories they've been telling this season.

Now it could be Jonathon or Andrew I suppose. But my instinct just says that something this huge is leading up to permanently losing a Scooby. Because that's the only plot I can see as conceivably being worthy of this degree of angst and tragedy.
quote:quote:

Ari
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Zahir » Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:05 pm

Okay, just to make a point--

Has anybody ever been 100% right about spoilers?

'Cause I can't think of anyone. And so, I simply don't know what's going to happen.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

Zahir
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Caesar » Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:11 pm

quote:
Originally posted by Sela:

having Willow go all wicked, having Xander run with his tail between his legs, having Buffy engage in violent sex,

--Sela


What is wrong with violent sex? How one has sex is up to yourself and your partner. Personally, I love violent sex and B&D; it’s just an individual preference.

Saying it’s unnatural and wrong is the kind of thing I hear from the religious nuts in my area about homosexuality.

[This message has been edited by Caesar (edited March 25, 2002).]quote:

Caesar
 


General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

Postby Soma » Mon Mar 25, 2002 4:11 pm

Am I the only one enjoying this season?? Apart from a few episodes at the beginning, I've really enjoyed quite a number of episodes this year, and I like the turn that the characters have taken. Yes, it is dark, and yes, the spoilers are intimidating. But I refuse to write off the season until episode 22 airs.

If the spoilers are true, then I can't say I'll enjoy the end of the season. Tara's death and Willow going back to dark magic does scare me, and if this is a permanent move, then I'll join the brigade against Marti Noxon and say that she has lost touch with her fans. But until then I'm going to stick by the season, and hope like hell that they'll do right by the fans!

[This message has been edited by Soma (edited March 25, 2002).]

Soma
 

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