General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 6 - The Bermuda Triangle

[Willowlicious]

It's not as though this is a simple case of someone posting a spoiler and leaving it be. This was a case where someone, Wendy, posted a devastating spoiler then sat back and watched everyone on the Kitten freak out for pages and pages. Finally things would start to calm down as Kitties would rationalize some reasons the spoiler might NOT be true. Reasons such as the rumor was not confirmed (big one there), the storyline seemed to foreshadow that W/T would get back together, Tara's death wouldn't move the overall story forward, that Joss said he's never getting rid of Amber/Tara, etc., etc., etc. Just when the board would start to calm down, Wendy would post something like, "You'll see, she'll be dead or leave town by the sweeps," or "Do I get an apology if I'm right?" Then the whole thing would start up again for another 10 pages and then people would calm down and then she'd say it AGAIN. The first spoiler post was sufficient. She never had any new information and was never willing to back it up with anything. She just kept on saying, "Tara's gonna die...is to, is to, is to!!!" It was like because we didn't shut down the board and start wearing black, it was a personal affront to her spoilerly skills. How dare we HOPE it wasn't true and try to cheer ourselves up with intelligent, patient, well-reasoned arguments that Tara may not die.

I've never communicated with Wendy in any way and have no personal feelings about her. I just wish she would have handled this spoiler differently. Post a spoiler once and back off. If you later have new info, post again. But don't keep tormenting a board just because you're sure you're right. If you are right, your time will come. If you're not, you will save a lot of face by acting gracefully and graciously when posting spoilers.

[Wiccagrrl]

She handled things badly, no doubt about that. And yes, it was her continuing to hammer away at how sure she was that this would happen that hurt people. And I have little doubt she believed it, but she made getting us to 100% believe it a personal mission. And it just wasn't gonna happen.

Oh, BTW, regarding her editing her posts...she may have been able to erase the original posts, but she couldn't have gotten rid of the stuff where people quoted her to respond, could she? Just a thought, but I imagine most of the comments she made are still around as responses.

[This message has been edited by Wiccagrrl (edited February 14, 2002).]

[morgan1707]

I give Wendy credit for actually admitting that she was wrong with the Tara dies spoiler, but we shouldn't criticise her for it.

[AutumnT]

Like other folks have said, it was not the spoiler but the attitude. The "be nervous", apologize to me when I'm right, anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have believed it, it's right before Christmas so I'll tell you again and then delete all my posts attitude that bugged me. Especially the deleting of the posts.

I've been in the spoiler biz a long long long time with the XF. And having a spoiler or being first to have it does not mean you are a better person. People will always not believe you. It's their right to do so. To get upset when they do or take it personally because people do not believe the information you happened upon means you're taking your luck a little too seriously.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

[morgan1707]

I didn't realise that, Autumn! Perhaps some people have the right to gloat at her being wrong, but I personally won't.

[AutumnT]

I don't think it is gloating because she is "wrong". I mean no one knows for sure what will happen on the show but Joss. I think it is more expressing frustration at having that particular spoiler tossed at us repeatedly and finally being able to say "Hey that sweeps spoiler was wrong and we know that for a fact." So no, we don't have to apologize for doubting you.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by Utopia:
Am I the only one thinking this supposedly friendly, respectful and tolerant board, with a clear policy on bashing of characters, actors and fellow poster is outrageously dragging Wendy, who was kind enough and humble enough to retract her spoiler, through the mud thus going against its own beleifs? I mean... people, come on.

---

In the perfect world (of Utopia?), I would say you have a point. But at the same time I'm not going to blame anyone who vents a little bile over the torment Wendy put us through now that the rumor she kept trying to shove down our throats has been proven false.

There's a large part of me that really feels sorry for Wendy or anyone else who has invested so much in being the "Spoiler Champion" that they resort to such tactics. Unfortunately, there's also a large part of me that remembers what those tactics did around here.

Probably best for us all to say "Tara's alive! Neener neener neener!" and then move along.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)quote:

[Dr.G]

Maybe it is more like gloating *we* were *right*, Wendy was prepared to do so if she had been. Hmmm, it's a good thing I can't go back to the old threads anymore and change all my posts to say "Christmas, bah, humbug" it would look odd.

[bzengo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dark Sheep Mysterioso:
As stated, ducks do fly south for the winter, hence the flying north. They are doing what is unexpected. In other words "You think you know what you are, what's to come. You haven't even begun." After all baseball is a game that is intense, passionate, and above all else, full of love.

---

"Full of love..." Dawn has been known to wear shirts with a heart on them. And she is made out of energy which has been said to have the power to tear down the walls of all the dimensions, and then, rebuild them all again. Ladies - the only power which could do that IS love. And Marti did say recently that Dawn is about to stop playing Little TV Sister.

I don't know if this sounds silly or not, but especially after the last episode, what if the energy which is Dawn starts to be under her control, instead of no one having any idea what her power is or how to use it?

Anyway, reading DSM's post, I first thought of Dawn and wanted to throw my two cents in the pot.

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bzengo

Willow "Prince of Night, I summon you! Come fill me with your black, naughty evil!"

Joss (Sun Aug 30, 1998)
". . . Sooooo, someone is hoping this season will be less traumatic? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"quote:

[Shaniezak]

Wow, bzengo, nice thoughts there. I really like that.

And it makes sense . . . I mean, the fact that Dawn is still shaped from mystical energy can't have just been left there to languish, right? Perhaps her line in "Bargaining" about "I'm not the Key any more, or if I am, I don't open anything any more" wasn't just a one-shot deal . . .

[Scout]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Utopia:
Am I the only one thinking this supposedly friendly, respectful and tolerant board, with a clear policy on bashing of characters, actors and fellow poster is outrageously dragging Wendy, who was kind enough and humble enough to retract her spoiler, through the mud thus going against its own beleifs? I mean... people, come on.

---

Utopia, the fact that this is the Kitty Board is the very reason I restrained my earlier comments about Wendy. She deliberately inflicted a great deal of pain on this Board, so I don't apologize for having conflicted feelings about her recent downfall. However, if this wasn't the Kitty, you can be assured I would have expressed my true feelings in vivid detail.

But that's not what this board is about and that's the difference.

quote:

[Jeanny]

quote:

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Originally posted by bzengo:
"Full of love..." Dawn has been known to wear shirts with a heart on them. And she is made out of energy which has been said to have the power to tear down the walls of all the dimensions, and then, rebuild them all again. Ladies - the only power which could do that IS love.

---

I love that thought...and it's perfect for Valentine's Day, too!

Showering some luv on the Kittens, and so glad the 'Tara dies' thing is finally going away!

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Tara: "No, I...I understand. You have to be with the person you love."
Willow: "I am."
- New Moon Risingquote:

[Epicurus]

With all this business of retracting the Tara death spoilers I think we might have let some positive discussions get pushed aside... like the fact that Tara is alive and isn't going anywhere.
I'll repeat: TARA IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.
C'mon! how happy are we?!? Amber could very well be in 19 epis, get a contract for the entire next season and finally be put in the credits. There could even be a "Ripper" appearance. I'm not even going out on a limb either. It's all possible. No more worries.

[tommo]

Hell, if there's gloating to do, then I'll do it.

I take a pretty hard line on spoilers that say Tara is going to die. Having been around for a long time, we've had this every season. Every. Friggin'. Season. And I'm kind of pissy about it now. Third season in of this relationship and some people still can't or won't let it just evolve. Well you know what? If you don't have evidence; if you can't back it up with anything more solid than 'I heard a rumour'; if you just want to keep die hard ?W/T fans stressing out for months...then keep it to yourself. Bad spoilers and bad spoiler spreaders are no friend of mine.

And um...

Neener neener neener...

Incidentally, Wendy is not the only one who has done this. I'm not targeting her; I'm not berating her. I'm just sayin', that's how I feel.

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Sweetie...I'm a fag.

[Stacey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Warduke:
then the solution is real simple...don't come to the Kitten. Simple isn't it?

---

Yup, it is simple. And in fact I won't be coming back to what used to be my favorite board after seeing the really disappointing way some people have reacted to this latest news.

Which I'm sure doesn't, and probably shouldn't matter to you guys. So I wouldn't have said anything, except that it might be worthwhile for you to know that some of you are driving supporters of your usually wonderful board away with your behavior.

Anyway, enjoy the great news, and thanks for the fun I've had here, even if I never did get around to actually posting. Bye.quote:

[Ange]

I found this at the cross and stakes:

quote:

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Ok.. i was reading E! and Wanda gave some insite of the BSD
Wanda: Four times a charm

Wanda: its Someone who has/will have a broken heart...

---

I'm pretty logic and if our girls are getting back together, like the spoilers said, they can't have their heart broken, so yeahhhh! for us.

So, i'm thinking of Anya after the wedding and all.

Angequote:

[xita]

I am not convinced there is a BSD, there's probably death, but not likely a scooby. That's my opinion and it's just that.

Now that our girls are on their way to being back together, Marti's sex scene, this year or next year?

[Ange]

I'm not conviced either on the Big scooby death, xita. In fact, i think that Wanda doesn't know anything. I mean, the other who had right, all the season don't know and her, that has wrong things more than once, does why...
But that's still a spoiler and not a Tara dies one, so...

And for the sex scene, i so hope to see it soon. A reunion kiss in the 18 episode, will be already very good too.

Ange.

[This message has been edited by Ange (edited February 14, 2002).]

[buffelina]

A sex scene? I'll repeat, a possible love scene? OMG!!!!! Finally!!!!
Of course, I know if they do decide to include a W/T love scene, that it will be beautiful.
So that must mean our gals will be together again eventually. God, the day can't get any better than this!!!

[Dr.G]

Hmmm Ange from you lips to Joss' ears.

Xita, seriously I think we might get that, not this season, but next season.

Ah and I really love this board, and what makes it so great for me is that it is about W/T first and foremost and the people who love them and post here.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited February 14, 2002).]

[buffelina]

Dark Sheep, you rule!!!!

[judy]

Ohhhhh, my curiosity is madly piqued by BSM and his/her spoilers. Baaaaa. Thank you.

And I'm sorry but I just caught the part about Wendy editing her old posts and that's lame, man. I was willing after all this time to give her the benefit of the doubt, that she had sources that misled her and became determined to convince everyone at the Kitten of the veracity of the spoiler. I can be hot headed and become ridiculously fixated on arguing my point or proving someone wrong. But going back and deleting your words -- talk about a cop out. Nuff said.

[This message has been edited by judy (edited February 14, 2002).]

[kitten scout]

I don't really feel it's gloating, more like a sigh of relief!

[Ari]

Something tells me that if we get the sex scene this season, it won't be until the very end. But I'm more inclined to think it'd be next season. After reading that scene from 18, I got the impression that they are going to try and be 'just friends' for a while. Especially with Tara still having trust issues and Willow just happy with whatever Tara-time she can get. But of course, the fact that they are both still completely in love with each other would probably complicate the whole 'just friends' thing just a bit.

I'm thinking of Tabula Rasa, where no matter if they thought they were just study buddies, we all saw how long that lasted.

I actually lurked here throughout the whole Wendy-Tara dies spoiler thing. What kept coming to mind was how my mother always told me it was never a good thing to be too eager to be the bearer of bad tidings.

It seemed kind of like repeatedly telling a friend you think they are in a bad relationship. No matter how right you might think you are, or how good your intentions, nothing good can really come of it. If the relationship ends, the friend is always going to associate you with the hurt of it ending. And if it doesn't, then you've dissed their honey.

Either way, you're bound to lose the friend.

Ari

[wiccie]

Excellent points, Ari.

I think we'll see smoocies by the end of the season, and I'd *hope* (wish, pray, sacrifice a baby bok choy...) to see a real W/T love scene this season, but I think the warm-fuzzies will be this year, and the hot 'n sweaties next season.

Time does heal all wounds, but it'd be intersting to see the tension of Tara *not completely* giving in to her lust for the sake of truly rebuilding trust.

Hey, I made a rhyme. Cool...

Oh, and check out my post in the daily thread for a fun scene I'd like to see.

[mariacomet]

RANT MODE ON.

The History of the W/T Shippers.

Admittedly, this is a bit off topic, but I wanted to explain WHY people get so emotional about Spoilers regarding Willow and Tara.

During Season 4 (on the phone with a friend)

Me: Did you see the thing with Willow and that new girl last night?
Friend: That was weird.
Me: (my spidey senses tingling) It was interesting.
Friend: Not sure where they are going with that.
Me: Yeah. It was interesting. There seemed to be...an interesting dynamic.
Friend: Like I said..It was weird.
Me: I wouldn't say weird.

(In the beginning, I felt like I was the only one that got the undercurrent of things that were going on)

Reading the message boards trying to read what the writers are doing with the Willow and Tara friendship.

Messageboard: Don't get too used to this Tara person, she is going to die soon.

Me: Well...hell.

So I kept watching and I kept seeing sparks between Willow and Tara. It glued me to the t.v. whenever they were on.

Me: I think there's something going on there.
Friend: I don't see it.
Me: No, really. There is. Look at the way they are together.
Friend: I think you are kind of seeing what you want to see there.
Me: But!
Friend: Willow loves Oz.

Messageboard 1 Don't even think about getting used to Tara. She's dying this season

Messageboard 2 Tara is so frumpy. She has NO character. BOOORRRINNNG.

Me: Sigh.

And then one day the subtext became maintext. "I am you know. Yours."

I realized that I had watched these two characters fall in love in a very quiet, tender way and that it hadn't been a ratings stunt. It hadn't been just 'subtext' that was never going anywhere. These two beautiful, compassionate intelligent women had simply been draw to one another, become friends and then fallen in love. It gave me a tremendous amount of hope and it's hard to put my finger on why. It was just so quiet.

I don't go in for a lot of politics and I know that Joss and the writers were not necessarily trying to make a statement for the gay community. I don't know that a planned statement could have effected me as deeply. It wasn't this flashy subplot about two lesbians, the fact that they were both the same sex was ignored and irrelevant. What mattered was that two wonderful people were offering their hearts to one another, unconditionally. Something inside me felt irrevocably grateful and was deeply touched.

Just as Willow and Tara had fallen in love with one another, I had fallen in love with them

Messageboard 1 Tara will dead by the end of the season. Amber's contract isn't being renewed.

Messageboard 1 How dare they make Willow a lesbian. What kind of cheap crap is this?

Messageboard 3 Amber can't even act. Get rid of Amber and bring back Oz.

Half the Buffy audience - or so it seemed - hated...and I mean HATED this couple that I was deeply smitten by. The cruel, thoughtless statements that were made during this time about Amber, especially seemed endless. So much so that the actress herself once responded to the taunts. People critized the sudden 'swerve' for Willow. They called Amber fat. They made fun of her and said the Tara had no characterization and that the actresses had no chemistry together. Well this kind of relationship had never been potrayed on television, so I didn't dare hope that it would last. A part of me was sure that ME would cave in, or that they had never planned for Tara to be around for very long in the first place.

But Low and Behold, Tara WAS back for fifth season. She and Willow seemed stronger than ever. 'Family' aired and my heart didn't lift, it soared. After all of the times I had defended Willow and Tara, and all of the moments between them that had made my stomach do happily little flips - I sort adopted them. Okay, I HAD adopted them.

In 'Family' they began to really develop Tara and the relationship seemed cemented. I felt that finally, FINALLY maybe I would see some circumspect from some of the boards.

Messageboard 1: Don't get too used to Tara. She is going to be killed by Glory in about episode 17 or 18.

Messageboard 2: That plot is sooo lame. So she was just 'told' she was a demon. STUPID.

Me: ARGH! What the hell do the writers have to do??

[i] And then there was great rejoicing from the heavens, as I found the Kitten Board. Angels sang. Poets Wept. Or something like that. I finally found a group of people that
seemed to get it. They were/are as deeply smitten as I am.

And STILL we heard the Tara is going to die rumors. But we ignored it. We delighted in snuggles between our leading ladies and rejoiced in the first onscreen kiss (that didn't require a death taking place)

And then...the rumors came here. Thud. Right into our laps. These spoilers weren't based on scripts or sides or anything that had been seen. They were based on 'sources.' I think on some level we all at least half way trusted the people posting who were telling us about these sources. Herc, Wendy...even Sweetie, I think. There was so many of them - it seemed. But we wanted to keep hoping, so we made some logical arguments. The people posting just got LOUDER and even GLEEFUL.

Me: Gleeful? WTF, these are my FRIENDS, Willow and Tara you are talking about.

And yes, I realize that's a bit insane. And no, I have yet to write either of the actresses long letters that contain marriage proposals and/or sexual overtures. I KNOW it's a t.v. show. But that doesn't change the fact that these two characters have snuck into my heart and that I delight in watching them. Much like I delight in sunsets or perfect springs days or choclate. They make me feel that same sense of giddy awe.

So when the "Tara WILL die" spoilers became gleeful, I got defensive and angry. It was, after all, the third season in a row that I was dealing with it.

Tara and Willow broke up. I couldn't help but think then that the rumors might hold a speck of truth. I refused to read the other messageboards - because I knew damm well that all of the people that had disliked the Willow and Tara relationship for so long would be rejoicing. Surprisingly, while some did react this way, many more began to look at Tara with a kind of respect. It was gratifying, but it didn't make me feel any better. And STILL...the 'Tara dies' rumors only got louder.

Somewhere in all this, Angel X stated ' Umm, I haven't heard anything like that.' And Bob and others started digging. It came to light that a good deal of these news flashes on Tara had come from ONE source.

Wendy states that she had two seperate sources, I believe - but this was at the beginning of the season - and it was mostly those sources saying they hadn't seen Amber around and her extrapolating on what that meant. That was NOT how she stated her beliefs on this board, or at least not how *I* read them. The way I read them was not that she was making educated guesses but that she had heard the rumour directly from multiple placed. And still to this DAY, the Tara dies rumors are being shouted from the rooftops, and while the glee may have been cranked down - no one has come forward and said they were wrong. Instead they change the story slightly. Oh Tara didn't die in episode 15? Then it must be episode 17. Oh, she's still alive at the end of sweeps? It'll be in the last episode then.

It is true that none of use knows what Joss will do. It is not impossible that he may chose to kill off one of his main characters. and yes, I would prefer to know about it ahead of time. Just realize that these are my friends, you are talking about. Don't come to me with vague sources, come to me with facts.

Being a Willow and Tara fan in the Buffy universe hasn't been easy. It would be nice, if at least on THIS board, that journey was treated with respect and compassion.

Frankly, I think that's the whole point.

RANT MODE off.

I know this was long, gang, just HAD to get some things off my chest.

[This message has been edited by mariacomet (edited February 14, 2002).]

[BBOvenGuy]

Thanks for that run-down, Maria.

I would like to add, though, that W/T fans also had to put up with all the "get rid of Tara" comments after the brain-suck last year. For weeks it was "Tara's useless now. They should just kill her off," and we had to put up with it.

As for digging for the sources on the Tara death rumors, the person you really need to thank is DrLloyd. He's the one who pounded the cyber-pavement and got to the truth, and I think he's also the person who drew AnGeL X here. I just did the color commentary.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

[Shaniezak]

Ah, Bob . . . so modest, but discounting his rather important role in keeping everybody at least partly calm and reasonable around here.

If I had any sanity left, I'd thank you for preserving it . . .

[Web Warlock]

Not to drive this into more OT area, but Maria hit it dead on.
That could have been me or my wife writing that. 'Cept I tend to swear more in rant mode.

This is the only board I read or post to regularly. Of course W/T is the main reason but also because nobody here takes a rumor lying down. I could name names, but I am certain to forget someone who did something good and I don’t want to do that. You know who you are and so do the rest of us, glad you are out their searching for the truth.

People (outsiders mostly coughHerccough) might get their feelings hurt when the more zealous regulars go after them with facts, but hey *you* came here telling us one of our two favorite people was going to die, expect us to take it personal.

Come to us with facts and we will listen.
Come to us good W/T related facts (like AngelX) and we will shower you with affection. Come to us with vague speculation, death rumors and gleam in your eye then you better expect all of us to get a little cranky, and some us right down militant.

Thank you again Maria for summing up what I am sure most of us feel.

BTW: I am joining the no BSD camp as well. I could be wrong, at which point I'll come back and say "wow I got that wrong!", not edit this post after the fact.

Warlock

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
--
"I wish you would stop licking me and untie me!"

[Kendahl897]

To the question of when Tara/ Willow get back together and have the big makeup love scene---I tend to think by the end of this season..The main reason being that when the new season starts next year, it will be 4-5 months later. It's certainly not going to take 4 months for them to realize their feelings and reunite...So unless they plan to show the courtship this season, then jump all the way to next season, where they are sleeping together again, therefore skipping a big make-up love scene, I can't see them waiting til next season....And everyone needs to consider 3 things: 1- Willow had those supplies, but she never used them. 2- Willow could have kept her mouth shut about having them 3- she told Tara the truth about why she had them and 4- she told Anya NO!!!!