General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 11

[kyraroc]

Great Season 7 spoilers, Warlock - I'm looking forward to the exciting IRA episode.

A comment relating to the "everything is happening twice" theme" - someone mentioned that they hoped that since Willow ressurected Buffy first thing, there was a chance that Tara might be resurrected as a bookend to it . . . however, I've heard a persistent rumor that the first thing Willow does with her magic is save Buffy's life, which, if true, strikes me as a more likely pairing - especially since Willow apparently is going to try to ressurect Tara and fail at least once . . . I'm still devoutly hoping that Tara comes back somehow, though, and believe she will. I just think it's more likely to be a thematic bookend to the "Willow and Tara reunion" section (fingers crossed, hoping Tabula Rasa doesn't count as one that already happened.)

I'm actually enjoying the season so far. The writing's been good and several of the episodes have been top notch. Yes, it's been incredibly brutal on pretty much all the characters, but I think I understand why . . . someone recently pointed out that last year they battled a god, and how do you top that? Well, you can't, and you shouldn't. The "battling a powerful monster intent on destroying the world" thing has pretty much reached its highest potential already on the show, and is now kind of played out. So, they're trying something new - having this episode being about the Scoobies battling their own personal demons, to the extent that the Scoobies themselves become the Big Bads.

To go that far, that means things have got to get just about as bad as they can possibly get before they get better. It means throwing enough at the characters that they start to give in to feelings of rage (Willow), vengfulness (Anya), fear (Xander), depression (Buffy), rebellion (Dawn), and violence (possibly de-chipped Spike), and at least temporarily getting rid of the characters with cooler heads and wiser outlooks (Giles, Tara). It takes a lot to get someone who starts out on the side of the heroes to go that far, and so they've thrown a lot at the characters in a fairly unrelenting way. But plenty of people go through very dark patches in their lives and have to go through a lot before they come out the other side, and I don't think it's unfair to take a season of a long-running and complex show to play that out.

The key to that statement is, of course, the whole "coming out the other side" part. If they don't (Willow stays dark, Tara stays dead, etc.) I'll agree with everything nasty that's been said about this season - it's just been pointless brutality. But if the characters do get through it, and come out the other side intact and, presumably, back on the side of the angels, then the season has been about how bad things can get when the evil is yourself and your friends: much, much worse than when the evil is easy to find, fight, and conveniently wears black hats or pointy horns. I respect that as a theme, and as a place to take the show.

So, I'm going to wait and see where they take this before I condemn the show, even if a couple of eps this season have left me feeling physically bruised; I'm perfectly willing to deal with a hard road as long as it ends up going somewhere.

--- KR

[Willowlicious]

quote:

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What will the writters do whith an Evil Willow ? If EvilWillow is resolve in S6, that would mean that they've killed Tara just for a fast and furious final. It would be a betrayal of all what BtVS has been during 6 years (well, of my vision of BtVS ). And if Evil Willow is meant to be the big bad of S7, that mean either AH will drop from regular to guest or that she will appear in every episode of S7...So either they waste her talent by having her only in a few episode or they have a bad guy in all episodes of the season which would not be very credible.

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Well put, Lock5. It is almost impossible to imagine EvilWillow surviving to be the Big Bad next season. Alyson is the #2 star of BtVS. She is second only to SMG in clout. She will be in all 22 episodes and, with the extra focus of being the Big Bad, her role would be elevated by default so that she essentially shares equal billing with SMG. The show would become The Buffy vs. Willow Show. That would severely alter the dynamics of the show, and, I imagine, the dynamics of the cast. I don't think such a situation would make for a happy set, poitics being what they are in Hollywood.

The idea of a long-term EvilWillow completely lacks credibility with me anyway. It has been clearly foreshadowed that she cannot maintain dark power indefinitely. Even if she miraculously survived her vengeance run (which I don't think she wants to do), her power would burn out and then the guilt and emptiness would hit. Realistically, I think she would commit suicide by any means necessary. For all of those folks who like dark realism so much, think about that one. The writers have created a scenario in which Willow has lost all hope and meaning and only wants to die. If we were going for realism, that's what would happen. Redemption in this case is not realistic to me. But, since, AH is such an important part of the show, we know they can't kill her.

Reset.

[This message has been edited by Willowlicious (edited March 26, 2002).]quote:

[Scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:

Ep7.4
Life catches up with Willow and Tara in the worse way possible. They realize that they are due to graduate in the spring and neither of them have declared a major!

Ep7.7
Realizing she has been ignored for 5 weeks Dawn throws another fit.

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They were all great, but those were my two favorites! Thanks so much for posting them. It's been awhile since I've giggled in the spoiler thread.
quote:

[Jane Eyre]

I've been maintaining hope, but I feel some bile coming to the surface--I'm a casual watcher of ER, and if you are too, you know that it loses cast members all the time, and there is always a NICE ADVANCE WARNING. Not on spoiler boards (which I don't read for anything but buffy) but in the actual media. It gives the audience time to adjust to the idea. Now I know they do this to soften the blow so it won't kill ratings, not because they're caring compassionate people who care about the audience's feelings. but damn it, shouldn't joss care a little about our feelings? I mean, if someone really is leaving, and they're doing so because the actor wants to do something else, why not just level with us in real world terms, warn us it's coming, and keep the hows and whys a secret?

Not that I have nearly the respect for ER that I do for buffy, but I can't imagine them killing off a character suddenly and then saying, "oh, yeah, sorry--so and so's not coming back anymore."

so I'm bitter, but I can't imagine Joss doing it, which gives me hope that Tara's death will be reversed.

any thoughts?

jane

[Ari]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:

The idea of a long-term EvilWillow completely lacks credibility with me anyway. It has been clearly foreshadowed that she cannot maintain dark power indefinitely. Even if she miraculously survived her vengeance run (which I don't think she wants to do), her power would burn out and then the guilt and emptiness would hit. Realistically, I think she would commit suicide by any means necessary.

---

Well, there's also the fact that she's most likely to be quite insane when all this is going on. And insanity and evilness aren't exactly the same thing. They can have the same results, of course. But there is a difference.

The thing that I keep coming back to is that she falls so fast and so hard. The whole black hair and clothes things just seems like a huge signifier that she's blown right past the point of no return without even slowing down.

And there's the paradox. How do you save Willow once she's passed the point of no return? There really aren't a lot of options there. And the only really feasable one is to keep her from crossing it in the first place.

Now, I can see a Scooby being the ultimate big bad next season. But it wouldn't happen like this, where someone's just gone completely over the edge the season before. It would be a sort of slow, insideous darkening, like one of them being unknowingly possessed or something like that (and I say that because they've just used the word 'possessed' far too many times this season).

They could have gone that route with Willow if they'd wanted to this season, but they didn't. They showed her messing up and then genuinely working her butt off to try and get herself straightened out. If you have her go dark right at the very end because she's just compeletly lost it, then what was the purpose of her journey and all the pain and growth of the entire season? There isn't one.

Just makes no sense to me. Of course, it makes even less sense to me that the big, pivotal event of the season would happen in ep 19 where Tara dies and then Willow tries to bring her back, goes nuts, mayhem ensues, and the big stunning, earth shattering climax is that....she stays dead. Nuh uh. I just don't buy it.

Not just because it's anticlimactic, but because it rather conveniently overlooks all the other elements that are going to be leading up to the big finish. This isn't the Tara and Willow show, and for once that might actually be the thing that works the most in our favor. Because as bad as their story is, it's only one part in the larger picture and that's what will define the climax and cliffhanger.

Ariquote:

[morgan1707]

From Wanda:

quote:

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From blaunew: I'm such a wreck over that last Buffy episode. Are we all supposed to think it's a hallucination? I can NOT believe they would turn my favorite heroine into a perverse dream.
I feel ya, honey, and Friday's column will address that question. I was able to get Buffy's head honcho Marti Noxon on the horn last week and prodded her for all she's worth. So stay tuned.

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Hmm... why do I not believe her? I'd like to think Marti would tell Wanda lots of things, but I doubt it's going to happen. I don't think she will go too specific into anything.quote:

[bzengo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jane Eyre:
Not that I have nearly the respect for ER that I do for buffy, but I can't imagine them killing off a character suddenly and then saying, "oh, yeah, sorry--so and so's not coming back anymore."

so I'm bitter, but I can't imagine Joss doing it, which gives me hope that Tara's death will be reversed.

---

Jane,

Its a nice thought, but if Joss was going to kill off someone for real, unlike ER, he wouldn't give out advance notice. Just listen to him talking on the Season 1 DVD about killing Jesse and the first Principle.

However, for many other reasons, I think a reset is probable.

------------------
bzengo

Joss I love invoking all those (old horror) movies, but at the same time, the core of this series, emotionally, is a very safe place.

Joss (Sun Aug 30, 1998)
. . . Sooooo, someone is hoping this season will be less traumatic? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!quote:

[Jane Eyre]

Bzengo--
You have a totally valid point with the whole Jesse factor, and I had that in the back of my mind as I typed, but there's also a big difference between toying with the audience in the very first episode, and establishing tone, and taking away someone we've loved for years. I wasn't a fan until recently, so I wasn't around when Joyce died, so I don't know if people knew she was leaving, but at least there was a long lead-in with her illness, and Joss himself said that he'd been preparing the actress for years telling her Joyce would be killed off....

I don't know--you may be completely right that this is *exactly* the kind of thing that Joss would do....it just seems more abrupt than any of its precedents.

[Fran_Spice]

Hiya.

Still, I don´t like the idea of a reset. It would make the whole season pointless somehow. There must be something ME knows that we don´t.

Well, nobody said Elvis is still alive, and I also think that the EvilWillow in season 7 would be illogical.

But there is one interesting thing I just noticed while talking to a friend today... The DarkMagicWillow _could_ be not the real Willow/the dead Tara _could_ be not the real Tara.

Attention: Wild Speculation ahead!

Some posts/threads ago someone mentioned that the diamond used in the invisibility ray had some sort of magic quantum mechanics capability. Now quantum mechanics are far beyond my understandings, but in a script-writing way these capabilities could surely be used to duplicate a person.

I just noticed it, and my friend said that there was a _false_ spoiler around that there was an episode named "Would the real Tara please stand up!". Note that this is confirmed false, but it _could_ have been some kind of project name for an upcoming episode.

I´ve got a theory, well, I have many, and most of them are wrong, but this whole mess could have something to do woth Willow and possibly others trying to get back the obviously missing part of Buffy (the "normal" girl).

Speculation ends here.

I know it has its leaks here and there, as EvilWillow and Anyanka are momentarily not included, but sorry, I am just trying to think of an satisfactory ending. I am quite amazed that I worry that much about it, as I have not a single clue on what exactly will happen in the last episodes, I repeat that I am wildly speculating here, but I just can´t get this out of my mind.

BTW, did someone actually notice that Giles was right in the song "I´ve got a Theory"? But he said "something isn´t right there", which may actually truely hint on the fact that they were not singing about the reason for the "home musical extravaganza evil".

Or am I just overanalyzing?

Sorry, racing mind in these days. Yes, I am on vacation...

Hugz, Fran.

[tommo]

Garfield, you let a huge spoiler slip by posting that bit of our interview with Amber. See, I really do want to be in the credits for Season 6. There's still time!

What? You mean...

Ah dammit to hell.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...

[Jane Eyre]

Fran Spice--
that's an interesting (false) spoiler you bring up about the "real Tara," especially because I've never thought the make-up scene, where Tara basically says, "aw, hell with it, let's just kiss and make up" sounded much like her (NOT that I'm complaining mind you...I'm totally jonesing to see that scene...) But still, not very much like the responsible Tara we know and love...

I do agree that there must be big gaping holes in our spoiler knowledge...it seems more and more possible that we're missing the forest for the trees here...let's hope it's an echanted forest full of cute lesbians in lip-locks for a full season to come...

[greep]

quote:

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Originally posted by bzengo:
....if Joss was going to kill off someone for real, unlike ER, he wouldn't give out advance notice. Just listen to him talking on the Season 1 DVD about killing Jesse and the first Principle....

---

True but on the same commentary he says "...I did end up doing it later on Angel(killing a well liked character), and it made everybody angry, so perhaps it wasn't such a good idea after all."

I've still got trust in Joss that this will all work out ok.
quote:

[Bev]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kamil:
Ya know, that's one of those things that makes me scratch my head and go hummm... I think I like it.
So if we take the next three confirmed titles, we have Entropy, Seeing Red, and Villains. Entropy seems to represent a state of flux, where things can't hold together -- seeing red seems to indicate *enormous* anger, and villains, well, that seems to indicate villains *g*. But is there a pattern there, like you saw in the others, that I'm just not seeing?

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Actually, if you do the skip thing the next 3 would be Normal Again, Entropy, Seeing Red. These 3 seem to be out of order, because the wouldn't be normal again until a reset, or whatever...but the with entropy meaning a tendancy toward chaos without a control then perhaps that would be why these 3 seem to be out of order.

quote:

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I remember St. Elsewhere, and the end of the Newhart show *g*, and while I think they're going to do *something* with the AU in "Normal Again", I doubt that it'll turn out that all six years of Buffy has been the delusions of a very sick girl.

I'm thinking that both universes are 'real', and that either somehow the demon poison allowed Buffy to transverse realities, or my current favorite theory: if you remember back to "Bargaining", Willow was definitely interrupted before she was done casting the resurrection spell. Also remember how *insistent* Tara was that Willow not be interrupted during the process -- even when the slashes on her arms appeared and the whole snake thing, *shiver* Tara insisted it was okay, Willow was strong, she knew she'd be tested, and it was crucial that she not be interrupted before the spell was complete.

Except that she was.

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Yes, remember back last season when Willow was trying to do the circle of light thing? She got interrupted then and we got Olaf the Troll.

quote:

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And I've been wondering ever since, especially with the way Buffy's been behaving this season, if Willow only got back the Slayer half of Buffy -- remember the part of the spell we heard was a plea for Osaris to 'release the warrior of the people'. I think it's possible that there was more to the spell, including releasing the human half of that warrior that Willow never got to perform -- so asylum!Buffy is just as real as our Buffy -- is in fact her missing half, her humanity -- but to be complete they need to be merged somehow.

As we've seen, once an AU is created (The Wish, Dopplegangland), the alternate universe creates its own backstory, so if Buffy were split in two, her human half would have its own reality -- and the part of her that remembers her *real* life would be trying desperately to get back to the part of her that's the Slayer -- hence the psychosis.

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I like what you are saying here. It explains a lot about the way that Buffy has been acting this season. I also can't believe that she was "in a mental institution" while she was dead. I mean she did tell Spike she thought she was in heaven. Somehow, I wouldn't think an institution would be heaven. Especially given the fact that she told Willow that she spent some time in one before moving to Sunnydale.

quote:

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In fact, Willow's trip down the darker side of things this season (the mind wipes and the gratuitous use of magic for no real purpose other than because she could) might be a result of having such a powerful spell interrupted. God alone knows what sort of an effect it would have on a witch, being interrupted while casting a spell of that magnitude. Might say leave her with a *need* to finish something she can't even put a name to, something that just tickles her inside -- encouraging her to get it done no matter what? Leading to all sorts of wacky spell castings?

Also for what it's worth, I think Sam was full of it when she talked about the shamans that went 'away'. Away, where, exactly? And how does she know that? It seems if they'd gone poof, or exploded, or combusted in front of everyone Sam would've used a wee bit more descriptive language? Ya know? For effect if nothing else. But gone away could simply mean that they went out to the corner store for groceries and nobody bothered to tell Sam about it. *g* Okay, so I'm reaching there, but I still think she's the ultimate in an unreliable narrator where that part of the story is concerned. I smell a very stale red herring. But then, it could just be me.

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Perhaps some grapes of the sour variety?

quote:

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Perhaps after Tara's death *weep*, Tara might be able to do some sort of dimension walking and be able to use her powers as a witch to reunite the Buffys. And just maybe the Powers (who've never been really named on Buffy -- but who seem to be the same guys that are quite often invoked or talked about on Angel)(I think it was the Powers who made it snow in Amends) might reward Tara for her help and realize that Willow can't be saved w/o Tara's love. And that Willow desperately needs saving -- there's much talk of a coming Apocalypse on Angel -- with the Slayer figuring as heavily in the prophecies as Angel himself does; so much so that Angel gave up his humanity to be able to fight with Buffy (IWRY). Since the Powers were willing to take back the day where Angel was human to aid the cause of the coming battle, might they not also be willing to take back another castrophic event to help the cause of good? Because Willow won't be much good to anyone, let alone Buffy's "Big Gun" if she's lost Tara to a senseless death. Besides all that insanity and rage and other assorted madnesses.

Hummm.....
--
Kamil
Gunn: "I mean, who has time for love when you're out there doing it with the demons...and didn't that just come out sad and wrong."
"Heartthrob" Angel

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We don't really know yet what the titles are of the final 3 eps. And I'm probably grasping at straws here, but I thought the title thing was interesting...

I had started to reply to this yesterday, but I hit the clear fields button accidently and it all went away...went to my corner to sulk and pout...everything went away...hmmm...quote:quote:quote:quote:quote:

[kitten scout]

Willow can't stay "BAD" for all of next season. Remember Sam Finn said the practice of dark magic makes a person disappear.

[Willowlicious]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ari:
Now, I can see a Scooby being the ultimate big bad next season. But it wouldn't happen like this, where someone's just gone completely over the edge the season before. It would be a sort of slow, insideous darkening....

Ari

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Oh, I agree. I think Willow could have been an actual Big Bad, but that time has passed. She would have strayed from the straight and narrow path at the beginning of the season and slowly descended to a point where she became a genuine threat to the group. She wouldn't have fought her way back if they were serious about making her a long-term Big Bad. My point about the cast dynamic with AH and SMG was rooted in the fact that Willow's fall is so over-the-top and complete that, if she were to be a threat next season, she would be a caricature. She's too big and too far gone. What story would there be to tell? We would already know who, what, where and why. There would be no point. It would just be a Buffy vs. Willow smackdown every week and that screws with the dynamic of both the show and the cast. No, ME is blowing their wad right now, at the end of S6. I'm still quite sure that things will be righted somehow.

I'm starting to think of this season as being like one of those sneaky rollercoaster rides where you go through all the nasty, scary dips and curves and then you enter that last dark tunnel thinking that the worst is over, because, ya know, it's almost the end of the ride...but there's a sudden, violent final drop OUT OF NOWHERE just to scare the bejeezus out of you before you are safely returned to solid ground. Yep, if Joss designed rollercoasters, he'd make 'em all like that...and he'd laugh his ass off watching everyone freak out. Er, wait, I think he already does that.

quote:

[drlloyd11]

This piwce of hersey deserves another round of mention in this conext , the death of the beloved charater on angel was caused more by personel and professional problems than anything else..
*cough*drugs*cough*

quote:

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Originally posted by greep:
True but on the same commentary he says "...I did end up doing it later on Angel(killing a well liked character), and it made everybody angry, so perhaps it wasn't such a good idea after all."

I've still got trust in Joss that this will all work out ok.

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quote:

[VampNo1]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before in some variety, but I keep going back to Willow's dream in Restless. Here she is doing a play where her family the audience is mad at her and Tara says she can't help her in these circumstances. Now a play is a performance where there are actors and actresses performing from a script that leaves very little ability to improvise because a writer sets up the script the way he/she wants the story to unfold. Therefore, there is little free-will because the overall story is set in stone, and usually only tiny details are usually changed. Now if you bring this into season 6 with a wish the characters aren't acting by free-will, but rather due to the circumstances of a wishmaker. So if you look at the dream Tara can't help because she has been shot, and Willow seeks revenge by going to the darkside. However, these events wouldn't have occured without said wish, and therefore, are acting like actors in a play with a set outcome they can't change without the wish being taken back. Therefore, with a wish being taken back the horrible outcome would be taken back, and through their own free-will they could make the outcome positive and show they have "grown-up".

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by morgan1707:
I'd like to think Marti would tell Wanda lots of things, but I doubt it's going to happen. I don't think she will go too specific into anything.

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I'm not going to be so quick to dismiss Wanda. She somehow managed to get the scoop on last year's season finale, so there's a chance she can get something meaningful this time around as well. And if she's been reading all the spoiler boards, as we suspect, then she's got to know the fans aren't happy about what they've heard. I'll definitely be tuning in on Friday to see what the interview says.

On another matter, I know several people who are convinced that Willow will be the Big Bad of Season 7, but personally I don't see it. Not only do we have Sam Finn's warning that the dark magic will consume those who are hooked on it, but we also have the fact that Willow has no reason to be a Big Bad. The Big Badness we see at the end of this season is fueled by her rage against Warren, Jonathan and Andrew. Once that runs its course, what else is there to keep Black Magic Willow going? I strongly doubt she's going to be like Vampire Harmony, standing in the middle of the street and shouting, "I'm going to kill everyone who was ever mean to me!" What Willow wants most is to have Tara back, and being a Big Bad is not going to get that done.

When I think about it, what happens to Willow is actually what convinces me most that there will be a reset. Tara's death? Tragic and cliche, yes, but from Mutant Enemy's perspective, it alone is not really worth taking back. Anya a vengeance demon? Spike chip-less again? Hey, those are both great points of conflict for next season. But Willow either turning into a cartoon villian or going poof? That's what can't really be allowed to stand. Buffy has too much invested in Willow as a character and Alyson Hannigan as a cast member for that to be permanent. I just hope they realize that.quote:

[Dave V]

Didn't a director once say something to the effect that it was actually very easy to get an audience to react - you just take a kitten and twist it's head off. However, he went on to say that this is too cheap and cheesy a way to do it.

Some people think ME is taking this route.
A reset is no more cheesy or cheap a way to fix the mess that BtVS may be heading toward.

[Ari]

quote:

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Originally posted by Willowlicious:
Oh, I agree. I think Willow could have been an actual Big Bad, but that time has passed. She would have strayed from the straight and narrow path at the beginning of the season and slowly descended to a point where she became a genuine threat to the group. She wouldn't have fought her way back if they were serious about making her a long-term Big Bad.

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Yep, I completely agree. Willow's got her problems, and she's undoubtably capable of horrible things. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I would actually tend to think that taking her this dark, even in a reality that is eventually undone, would sort of have the backhanded effect of precluding her from being a Big Bad Scooby next season. It might hint that there will be one, but it wouldn't be her. And likely it wouldn't be Spike, either.

quote:

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My point about the cast dynamic with AH and SMG was rooted in the fact that Willow's fall is so over-the-top and complete that, if she were to be a threat next season, she would be a caricature. She's too big and too far gone. What story would there be to tell? We would already know who, what, where and why. There would be no point. It would just be a Buffy vs. Willow smackdown every week and that screws with the dynamic of both the show and the cast.

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Exactly. Every season the real menace is something which is revealed slowly. Even once we know what it is, there's always more to the story, a twist that makes everything that much more complicated. Like Faith turning to the Mayor, or the connection between Ben and Glory. There's no subtly to the idea of Willow suddenly turning into the Wicked Witch of Westcoast.

quote:

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Yep, if Joss designed rollercoasters, he'd make 'em all like that...and he'd laugh his ass off watching everyone freak out. Er, wait, I think he already does that.

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Oh, yeah. I'm pretty sure he does.

The trick to any good illusionist is to get you watching the right hand, so you're not paying attention to the left one. It's to convince your audience they are seeing something they aren't actually seeing, while the answer was actually simple and right in front of your eyes the entire time.

Ari
quote:quote:quote:

[theatremouse]

quote:

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Originally posted by BigMac:
Those who be alive by the end of the season EP17 in the basement after buffy kills the demon,EP14 in Dawn's room after she run's upstairs,EP8 those who in the sewer.For bringing buffy back four will die but three will comeback the last one to die won't.

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kryptic much?

your phraseology buefuddles me.

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It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.quote:

[Feena]

quote:

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Originally posted by Robin:
I don't know what references MN had before she got part of JW's team, but I would feel much better if I knew JW is still the captain of this ship.
I would prefer him writing the finale as he did more or less in the past seasons.
This whole sixth season seems out of the known BtVS universe. And that seems to be the growing influence MN has and I'm sorry to state this clearly: I don't like the route the show has taken! Looks like the teacher is gone and all the kids are allowed to take over the ship.

Thinking of the fans of the single characters on the show and the so called "shippers", none of them can say they like what happens to the characters and the relationships in this season.
I don't get so far what MN is talking about, if she's thinking the fans are enjoying the stories that are offered this season, looks like she's creating her very own little show.

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(I hope this works coz it's the 1st time I've quoted!)

Dateline: Wednesday, March 20, 2002
In an exclusive interview with CINESCAPE magazine, producer/writer Marti Noxon is talking again about this year’s changes on BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER, and her increasing role in shaping the series.

In part two of her three part interview with us, Noxon revealed, “I've had more say in taking stories further so that Joss [Whedon, BUFFY creator] has to spend less time on that, and that's just wonderful. It's the hardest part of the process, and to be weaned of our total dependency on him is a really good thing. Hopefully I am getting better at it. But to me that's what separates the wheat from the chaff."

I'm feeling More-Marti/Less-Joss is a bad bad thing

Yay!! it worked *lol*

[This message has been edited by Feena (edited March 26, 2002).]quote:

[bzengo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ari:
The trick to any good illusionist is to get you watching the right hand, so you're not paying attention to the left one. It's to convince your audience they are seeing something they aren't actually seeing, while the answer was actually simple and right in front of your eyes the entire time.

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Ah - now I see what you're up to. You're secretly Joss yourself, aren't you, posting speculative theories on the board to confuse us. We're on to your evil plan you foul fiend.

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bzengo

Joss I love invoking all those (old horror) movies, but at the same time, the core of this series, emotionally, is a very safe place.

Joss (Sun Aug 30, 1998)
. . . Sooooo, someone is hoping this season will be less traumatic? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!quote:

[Ari]

quote:

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Originally posted by bzengo:
Ah - now I see what you're up to. You're secretly Joss yourself, aren't you, posting speculative theories on the board to confuse us. We're on to your evil plan you foul fiend.

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Curses, foiled again.

twirls evil mustache...oh, wait, I'm a girl, I don't have a mustache...twirls evil... ermm, cough nevermind.quote:

[JayDK]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
On another matter, I know several people who are convinced that Willow will be the Big Bad of Season 7, but personally I don't see it. Not only do we have Sam Finn's warning that the dark magic will consume those who are hooked on it, but we also have the fact that Willow has no reason to be a Big Bad. The Big Badness we see at the end of this season is fueled by her rage against Warren, Jonathan and Andrew. Once that runs its course, what else is there to keep Black Magic Willow going? I strongly doubt she's going to be like Vampire Harmony, standing in the middle of the street and shouting, "I'm going to kill everyone who was ever mean to me!" What Willow wants most is to have Tara back, and being a Big Bad is not going to get that done.

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I don't know -- I can think of several ways that ME might think that Willow as Season 7's Big Bad would work out. In the spoilers we know, Willow's actions are not about recovering Tara but about getting revenge against first Warren and then later Jonathan and Andrew after she can't revive Tara, due to her mortal rather than magical death (actually, I'm very surprised we haven't heard more about Willow trying to bring Tara back once she becomes Dark!Willow. Maybe that's the last couple episodes?) What if Willow's rage turns on another target -- say, Buffy? Willow might think if Buffy had taken care of the Troika the way she's taken care of every enemy, Tara would never have become a victim of the battle between Buffy and the Troika. Or Willow could go back even further and reason that if Buffy had never been resurrected, Tara wouldn't have died. It's not rational thinking, but Willow's not looking too rational at this point. Or Buffy, Xander et al could stop Willow from trying to resurrect Tara in the last couple episodes/season finale, when Dark!Willow does make the almost inevitable attempt.

Willow seems really controlled by her rage at this point, as well as irrational. I agree Willow won't stay in full-on Big Bad mode, complete with black hair, eyes, etc., because that would be too obvious and more to the point, Willow would burn out too quicky. But I could see easily a much more gradual, secretive Willow as Big Bad -- the Scoobies think that they've got "their" Willow back, but slowly, secretly, behind their backs, Willow's...well, I guess we'd have to wait and see where she goes.

quote:

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When I think about it, what happens to Willow is actually what convinces me most that there will be a reset. Tara's death? Tragic and cliche, yes, but from Mutant Enemy's perspective, it alone is not really worth taking back. Anya a vengeance demon? Spike chip-less again? Hey, those are both great points of conflict for next season. But Willow either turning into a cartoon villian or going poof? That's what can't really be allowed to stand. Buffy has too much invested in Willow as a character and Alyson Hannigan as a cast member for that to be permanent. I just hope they realize that.

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I guess I'm not seeing a big difference between Spike becoming chipless, Anya going demony, and Willow gradually descending into Big Badhood. They're all great points of conflict for next season, with Willow's the greatest and most far-reaching. I agree that Willow wouldn't stay the Big Black Bad of the last few episodes -- that would be too obvious. And she definitely won't be going poof. But I don't think those are the only two choices. I can see ME deciding that the Scoobies thinking Willow has "come back" to them, while she's really going in a totally different direction in secret, would work well for (possibly) the final season.

The show usually has to devote X amount of time to the development of the Big Bad for the season, something I always think is a waste of time, considering we know the Big Bad'll get knocked off at the end of the Season anyway. What if they take that chunk of time and devote it to Willow instead? Especially if it's the final season, I could see ME deciding the best Big Bad would be the one who comes from the very core of the Scoobies. Talk about having a lot at stake!

I have to qualify this with my certain belief, however, that Willow really would be redeemed by the end of Season 7. I *don't* see Willow ending up permanently evil. But given the apparent two-season arc nature of Seasons 6 and 7 at this point, I just don't think there's enough time left in the last three episodes of Season 6 for Willow to go bad and be redeemed. I think it'll play out over all of Season 7 as well. quote:quote:

[Corinthian]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
So for your pleasure I present to you the Season 7 episodes.

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You forgot the big one:

Ep 7.12
Willow and Tara get married, and nothing bad happens to spoil the day. Written and directed by Joss Whedon.quote:

[Robin]

When season 6 started, everyone said Willow would become the Big Bad and after the first 6 or 7 episodes it seemed like this might be the storyline. Her path into dark magic was quite openly demonstrated by Willow threatening Giles.
But after that came the addiction story.
If the writers really wanted Willow to become the Big Bad they had this season for it. Now it's not working anymore!
The only reason for Willow turning into dark magic is Tara's death and from what we know so far, she has more or less turned against everyone. I can't see Willow being the Big Bad for next season.
The writers have already given us an old story: Tara's being hurt (now killed) and Willow going on revenge. Everyone (with a working brain of course!) knew exactly what Willow would do! The writers gave us a bloody old story, they're gonna do the same stuff next season?!

And apart from this, why should the writers put that "shamans being killed by using dark magic" in the script for Sam Finn? I still think they were telling us what will happen to Willow in the end. And a Big Bad going "poof" isn't exactly what a Big Bad is expected to do.

And now I feel the urgent need to state: First I thought Willow becoming BB might be an interesting idea, BUT when thinking about
the consequences(!) I didn't like the idea at all! (So don't jump on me, please.)

[This message has been edited by Robin (edited March 26, 2002).]

[BBOvenGuy]

quote:

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Originally posted by JayDK:
I could see easily a much more gradual, secretive Willow as Big Bad -- the Scoobies think that they've got "their" Willow back, but slowly, secretly, behind their backs, Willow's...well, I guess we'd have to wait and see where she goes.

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No, you've just made my point for me. What exactly would Willow do secretly behind their backs? There's no motivation for it at all. If Willow had a reason to be sneaking around plotting evil, I might be inclined to think it had potential - but there's absolutely nothing the Willow I know would want that would lead her to do that. If it's vengeance against Buffy over some kind of grievance, Willow's rage would be out there for the world to see. That's the kind of person she is.

quote:

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But given the apparent two-season arc nature of Seasons 6 and 7 at this point, I just don't think there's enough time left in the last three episodes of Season 6 for Willow to go bad and be redeemed. I think it'll play out over all of Season 7 as well.

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Ummmm... let's put a little emphasis on the word apparent, shall we? There's been no evidence to suggest that next season will be linked to this season any more than any other two consecutive seasons have been.quote:quote:

[Peapod]

I think if everyone keeps writing threats to not watch the show ever again if Tara dies, then Joss and everyone at ME will hopefully change the end of the season. Does anyone know why all the episodes are spaced out so much? Like episode 20 is going to air in May. I can't wait that long to see if Tara really does die.

[Popje]

TheatreMouse – here’s my attempt at decrypting BigMac’s post:

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Those who be alive by the end of the season EP17 in the basement after buffy kills the demon,EP14 in Dawn's room after she run's upstairs,EP8 those who in the sewer.For bringing buffy back four will die but three will comeback the last one to die won't.

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Ep 17: Dawn, Willow, Xander, Tara

Ep 14: Willow, Xander, Buffy, Anya (who leaves the room first)

Ep 8 Dawn, Xander, Tara, Willow

The last one to die…won’t come back…hmmm. Person missing from most of these scenarios is Anya. But it would probably be someone that would die in ep 20, 21. Of the original folks involved in bringing back Buffy – it was Tara, Anya, Xander and Willow.

So nothing new in this post…from specs of other folks.

Now, as for getting rid of Anya, shippers out there might be lead to believe S7 may show a shift to another romantic triangle. We’ve not seen one in a while. But by my thinking - Xander, Buffy, Spike. Which would bring up the dynamic between the bad boy and the good boy for the Slayer to pick from. Comfortador or Vamp? Just a thought.