General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 5 - The Black Hole

[Rane]

ok, i'm confused. tara and willow have an argument in the house, and (separate question) tara does some heavy magick? wouldn't willow be all like *HEY!* about it? is that what they argue about? or am i mixing up espisodes again?

i can see willow feeling very left out if tara's the big witch that saves them. i know she loves her but remember the addiciton is to power and if tara has it and uses it she may wonder why the scoobs would need her. her insecurities might pop up again. sigh, oh who knows? i'm wasting way too much time trying to analyze.

i hope she kept the doll's eye, it's tara's heirloom. oh my god? did she stash the magick supplies in dawn's room? no, that would be way too much movie of the week for me.

oh! thanks, michelle, for the heads up. making my brain hurt from too much thinking though.

[mat]

Do you think Tara has been hiding her true magic potential?

Assuming she did go into dark magics after her mother died (reffered to in Family) then she must have become as powerful as Willow is now before bringing herself around to using purely non-dark magic. She may therefore have been through what Willow is going through now, hence Tara being so worried for Will.

So even though Tara told Xander that Willow had overtaken her magic wise could this mean Willow's dark magics are more powerful than Tara's non-dark magics - in fact if Tara did use dark magic (which we can assume is more powerful from late Season 5 spells) she would be kinda this dark phoenix which we get a glimpse of in episode 14 maybe?

I kinda don't get how Willow who has been learning magic for just 4/5 years can rapidly overtake a born witch of 21 years unless Tara is hiding her true potential (because it would involve harmful dark magics) like we are supposed to assume Amy did (see change in Amy's abilities between S1-3 Vs S6)?

Edited 2 Say: Thank you so much Michelle for your spoilers! *hugs*
_

Matt/BB

[This message has been edited by mat (edited January 18, 2002).]

[Eyes Without A Face]

"I kinda don't get how Willow who has been learning magic for just 4/5 years can rapidly overtake a born witch of 21 years unless Tara is hiding her true potential"...

If magic is channelled, how long you have learned and practiced is one component but raw talent is another. Even if I would have practiced sprinting for 20 years, the fact that my femur is longer than my shin bone would make me a poor sprinter (but that proportion would be good for weight lifting). Tara does not have to be in the same magical league as Willow (in terms of power/performance) to be a major contributor to the show.

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Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!

[AnGeL X]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rane:
ok, i'm confused. tara and willow have an argument in the house, and (separate question) tara does some heavy magick? wouldn't willow be all like *HEY!* about it? is that what they argue about? or am i mixing up espisodes again?

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We should see this kinda addressed in 13 (if the scene isn't cut, of course). Willow seems to be cool with Tara doing magic still. She recognizes that magic is still sometimes necessary for the Scooby Gang and when she can't do it, she knows Tara's the only other qualified one. Willow's still probably 10 times more powerful than Tara, but Tara still knows what she's doing. The cause of their disturbed relationship in 14 is Willow having magical supplies despite the events of "Gone" and her seemingly successful attempt at staying magic-free.

-Michellequote:

[La]

Woo, thanks, Michelle. That really cleared up a little bit of the confusion. You're always so helpful! Yay!

~la

[Scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by AnGeL X:
We should see this kinda addressed in 13 (if the scene isn't cut, of course). Willow seems to be cool with Tara doing magic still. She recognizes that magic is still sometimes necessary for the Scooby Gang and when she can't do it, she knows Tara's the only other qualified one. Willow's still probably 10 times more powerful than Tara, but Tara still knows what she's doing.
-Michelle

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Michelle, you responded to a post on the BC&S and it was reposted here. It said:
"I wonder will the writers send Willow to some kind of Wiccan guru who specializes in treating witches who abuse their powers? I think this could allow Willow to continue being who she is and clean up her act."
And you replied: "You have no idea how *right* on you are." At least that was how it was posted here.

Any way you could expand on that a bit. Like when would it possibly happen and is Tara involved? It seemed like an interesting possibility. Thanks!

quote:

[xita]

Thanks for the extra spoilage, can't wait till February!

Scout, I have a feeling that happens next episode, when Amy is trying to drag her down. And sadly no Tara there.

So from AngelX's latest post, I gather that they sort of have this angst there not only because of the stash but because maybe Tara questions how successful Willow has actually been at leaving magic behind. The stash would rightfully make her question Willow, thinking she's just lying again.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited January 18, 2002).]

[Scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
Scout, I have a feeling that happens next episode, when Amy is trying to drag her down. And sadly no Tara there.

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Okay, I can see how that would fit with what we've heard. Thanks Xita!

As for Willow and the stash, she must earn some brownie points for not using magick when they're trapped. I just wonder how she's going to explain the stash. If she can explain it, then all might be good.

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[La]

didn't michelle say that willow and tara end ep 14 on good terms, though? so maybe the stash thing is all explained away and then it's all good and happy at the end i bet willow has a perfectly good explanation for the stash.

~la

[Tabitha]

If it is the same stash as in Tabula Rasa, maybe she just forgot about it?

[AutumnT]

That stash burned to a crisp.

[Warduke]

Can't be the same stash as in Tabula Rasa because that one burned up, that's why the spell went wrong.

And thanks for the extra spoilage AnGelX, really can't wait for these episodes.

[mollyig]

Well she did have that stash very well hidden, maybe she had other stashes and just forgot about them.

Happens to me all the time, I hide something from my sisters and then come across it like years later!

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The new Indigo Girls album, "Become You," is in stores Feb. 26, 2002. For
more info, check out Indigo Girls web site at: http://www.indigogirls.com

[sparrow]

Just wondering out loud but due to Dawn feeling leftout and ignored she does something that traps everyone inside the house, this a demon, at the big birthday bash. Could this little spell be done with someting that Dawn swipped from Willow before the taking away of the "magic" weed and the "bong" candles. Tara recognizes whatever was used and thinks Willow fell off the wagon, arguement ensues. But then either Dawn confesses, cause she can't stand Willow and Tara fighting, or she gets caught thus revealing she past and present stealing habits. With Dawns actions revealed Tara sees how good Willow has been and how she is working really hard to stay magic free thus causing Tara conflicted feelings, she is proud of the strong Willow the woman she loves and wants to get back together with but she is still afrais to get hurt again and what if Willow goes all magiky again.

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"I may be loves bitch but at least I'm (wo)man enough to admit it"

"Yea baby, I'm back"

[The Rose]

I am not so sure Willow is more powerful than Tara. I know Tara is A LOT more careful with her magick than Willow is. Like someone else said, we have not seen how powerful Tara really is.

Don't forget These:
1)The spell Tara used to free Anya from that demon biker.
2)The spell she uses to find Willow
3) Tara broke Willow's silence spell at The Bronze.
4) No one can forget the passage to the nether realms.

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Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.

Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!

[a-hol]

I'm sure if Tara was really as powerful as Willow she could have stoped those demon biker guys in "Bargaining". Willow could have, but she was too drained from the resurrection spell. Why would Tara hold back during a life or deal situation like that?

Also Tara has stated many times that she was frightened by how powerful Willow was getting. I don't think it would have frightened her if she was just as powerful.

[Web Warlock]

Actually this all is playing into my pet theory that Tara is a really powerful witch.

She can still be afraid of Willow's power because Willow went so far so fast. Tara had 20+ years to get to her current level.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/~theotherside/

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"Nobody gets me baby. I'm the wind!" - Tom Servo, MST3k

[Rane]

quote:

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Originally posted by AnGeL X:
We should see this kinda addressed in 13 (if the scene isn't cut, of course). Willow seems to be cool with Tara doing magic still. She recognizes that magic is still sometimes necessary for the Scooby Gang and when she can't do it, she knows Tara's the only other qualified one. Willow's still probably 10 times more powerful than Tara, but Tara still knows what she's doing. The cause of their disturbed relationship in 14 is Willow having magical supplies despite the events of "Gone" and her seemingly successful attempt at staying magic-free.

-Michelle

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sigh... michelle, you rock. thanks for explaining. quote:

[Rally]

I know everyone likes to think Tara is actually very powerful but keeps it hidden. This also plays into her shyness / insecurity factors that still creep up from time to time.

But in order for the magic to go forward in the overall plot, someone is going to have to do magic. That someone is more than likely, going to have to be Tara.

So hopefully soon we will find out that Tara was either holding back her power, because we already know she will keep a secret from the group. Or more likely she was holding back herself, because she was unsure of or insecure with her power.

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-R

"Everyone's getting spanked but me."

[Kirk B]

There's something else you have to consider.

For pretty much her entire life, Tara was led to believe that she had a monster inside her, and that the monster was the source of all the magick. She probably came to associate the demon she believed she was, with the kind of dark powers she's seen Will using recently.

Even when she knows the truth, there has got to be a part of her that wonders if there isn't something to the story after all.

Magick (as least the darker kind Willow was tapping into) IS like a monster. One that is always there, bubbling beneath the surface, and waiting for a chance to burst out and hurt everyone around.

So even if Tara DOES have more power than Willow, for just this sort of reason I imagine she would be reluctant to use it.

And we still don't know, for sure, what any of this has to do with her mother. What DID happen to Mrs. Maclay anyway?

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Kirk B

"A Willow is a tree that weeps, but Tara is firmer and will hold.”

Hear that baby? You're my always.

I got so lost.
I found you. I will always find you.

[Queen of Denial]

new interview with marti noxon here:
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/art-main ... 8/13.00.tv

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all i can say is...Please don't let the lame gunmen be the big bad cause that would just be...i dunno, lame?

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http://www.geocities.com/meanymoo/taralives.html

..and don't believe otherwise!

[This message has been edited by Queen of Denial (edited January 18, 2002).]

[Scout]

quote:

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Originally posted by sparrow:
Just wondering out loud but due to Dawn feeling leftout and ignored she does something that traps everyone inside the house, this a demon, at the big birthday bash. Could this little spell be done with someting that Dawn swipped from Willow before the taking away of the "magic" weed and the "bong" candles.

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That's actually a really good idea, because Dawn's stealing problem has to come out at some point and this would be a really good ep for it (it's sweeps, it's one of Buffy's horrific birthdays, Dawn's feeling ignored). And it doesn't seem likely that Buffy would have picked up the stuff Dawn has stolen because she doesn't even know about it. Interesting...

quote:

[Reddygirl]

Good points, Kirk, and Tara's mother was a witch and Tara probably received helpful guidance from her about the uses of power (in stark contrast to Amy).

Plus, I see Tara as being the more spiritual of the two at this point in their lives. Remember how impatient Will was with the other members of the group/coven in Hush.

[AutumnT]

So Marti says things are going to get darker? Yeah, because it's been such a freaking laugh riot this year.

[Scout]

That's exactly what I thought, Autumn. Geez, how much darker can we go? And big bad climax coming? What the frilly heck does that mean. I'm overdosing on angst...

[Reddygirl]

So true, Autumn. And she pretty much admits what a lot of us have been speculating about: there will be no "official" Big Bad. I wonder is Marti is writing the finale herself, as she makes it sound very angsty, and nobody does angst like our Marti. *sigh* As long as nothing happens to Tara, and Spike doesn't go actively evil because of Buffy's rejection, I can handle anything. Even if W/T don't get back together this season, I know they will next year, and that might be even better because after all the S**t they've been through this year, ain't nothing going break them up again.

[AutumnT]

Well, if as Marti says things are coming to a head for all the characters it implies that Willow's troubles with magic are far from over. I believe our speculation that there is no single big bad and that the scoobies themselves are the big bad because of the choices and mistakes they are making is correct. I can see how someone could get the impression that Willow is the big bad because her path this season, her issue, has been the most dangerous to others rather than just to herself. However, I still think it is all of them - esp given what Marti says about Buffy's decisions as well. I suspect that Xander is about to screw himself over too in the who-knows-if-there-actually-is-a-wedding episode. Gee, then everyone can be in a dark and unhealthy place. That sounds like kicks and giggles.

Autumn

[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited January 18, 2002).]

[drlloyd11]

quote:

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Originally posted by AutumnT:
So Marti says things are going to get darker? Yeah, because it's been such a freaking laugh riot this year.

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Dont sweat, she probably is talking about eps 13 and 14 .
The pseudo-bad climax is pretty interesting, hmmm

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[AutumnT]

Oh I really think she is talking about the rest of the season, not just the next few episodes.

Edited to add: I keep going back to the musical and "what can't we face if we're together" and then the fact that I think they are all being pulled apart, and as Tara sings "everything is turning out so dark".

Autumn

[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited January 18, 2002).]

[drlloyd11]

Who knows?! Marti once said "tara is a demon of a type never before seen". Like 2 weeks before "Family" aired! But there is lots o suffering in eps 12-16 so far..

quote:

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Originally posted by AutumnT:
Oh I really think she is talking about the rest of the season, not just the next few episodes.

Edited to add: I keep going back to the musical and "what can't we face if we're together" and then the fact that I think they are all being pulled apart, and as Tara sings "everything is turning out so dark".

Autumn

[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited January 18, 2002).]

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