Triangle Discussion

[Utena]

posted 01-11-2001 11:08 EST (US)
Dri just wanted to thank you for the quick screencaps! I've been pining for them since airtime ^^ Yummy...

April, you said it perfectly. Her sexual orientation IS willow.

[This message has been edited by Utena (edited January 11, 2001).]

[april]

posted 01-11-2001 11:32 EST (US)
wow, the two reviews that xita posted are great! sarah kuhn, who i *adore*, says "And of course, I must dish out props for what has to be the best line of the season: Willow's 'Hello, gay now!'", and even has a picture of willow with that line as the caption.

and the wb scoop review says:

"Perhaps the most interesting tidbit here is the presence of the first affirmative and unflinching admission by our favorite Wiccan coed that she is, in fact, gay. We all knew this, of course. Any actual question concerning the nature of the Tara–Willow relationship went out the window a long time ago. But there is something to be said for announcing her sexual preference to the world."

yes! yes there is! even discounting all the other wonderful things about "triangle", that one line assures that this is going to be remembered as a momentous episode in the history of buffy.

[Hugin]

posted 01-11-2001 12:13 EST (US)
Can you imagine what it must have been like for Tara to meet Willow? (Setting aside that fact that Willow is devestatingly cute)

She's got the horrible family, telling her that the magic is evil. Which has got to conflict with the way the magic feels inside to her.

Andthen, she's brave enough to break away from them, and heads off tocollegs, and reaches out to other wiccans, and finds...they're kinda shallow and don't seem to have any real power.

And then, boom. Willow. Cute (did I mention that already?) and with real power. I don't think its much of an exaggeration to say that when Tara met Willow, she found something she had been looking for her whole life.

-len

[Anyalvr]

posted 01-11-2001 12:39 EST (US)
I have a feeling that Tara is a lesbian. A straight-ahead-only-liking-girls-lesbian. Something about the way she immediately was
so attached to Willow and tried to gather approval and affection from her told me that
she had always been attracted to girls. I'd also be willing to bet money on the fact that
Willow was her first.

Willow kind of stumbled into the relationship
and realized it worked for her, I think. She
didn't expect it, but it happened.

Either way, I don't want a guy - or another girl - to come between them. Ever. Stupid and unrealistic I know but I'm a stickler for it.

------------------
"I tried to be unlovable/why couldn't you do the same?"

-(jewel)

"Spank us 'til Tuesday! We promise to be bad if you do!"
-(drusilla, angel)

[Zahir]

posted 01-11-2001 15:12 EST (US)
I'm finding myself agreeing with a lot of what's been said about "Triangle." Really, really funny. The directing was a bit awkward. Lots of cool moments (but then, I'm hard pressed to think of BTVS ep that doesn't have one or two...).

Must admit, I'm one who thinks Tara is gay-and-nothing-but (she was *so* sure of her attraction to Willow *so* fast--besides, she's never shown the slightest glimmer of interest in men). But I also tend to believe Willow is bi--she's still attracted to the male of the species. Much more importantly, she's in love--totally and passionately and wonderfully so the whole bi/gay thing is kinda academic.

Didn't surprise me that Buffy didn't include W/T in her hysterical sobbing about perfect loves, etc. She's straight (sorry F/B fans!) and she's doing a bit of projecting here, after all.

Gotta love Spike turning to Xander and asking "What, the hospital?"

And that Anya was willing to die to save Xander.

But... poor Dawn!!!!!

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Utena]

posted 01-11-2001 15:20 EST (US)
yay zahir, that was one of my favorite scenes also. it was a poignant moment when we saw anya willing to sacrifice herself to save xander, and not seeing willow do the same. not that anyone with a grip on reality expected to, its just to me a definitive answer to any questions regarding any w/x future romance. hopefully the w/x shippers will swallow and accept it.

[darvangi]

posted 01-11-2001 15:42 EST (US)
That's a good point, Len, about how powerful it must have been for Tara to meet Willow given her hard family situation. I would love to see the whole story of those two meeting, beginning with some Tara backstory, portrayed in comic book form. It would provide a different perspective on their first magic together with the vending machine - it would come across kind of like Tara losing her virginity (metaphorically) and falling in love at the same time.

[This message has been edited by darvangi (edited January 11, 2001).]

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 01-11-2001 16:01 EST (US)
I don't think the fact that Willow didn't offer to die instead of Xander says anything about how much Willow does or doesn't care about Xander. It's just that in all the troubles they've been in and with all the bad guys they've faced - many of whom are a lot more menacing than Olaf the Troll - willingly giving up a member of the gang has never been an option. Willow was probably busy trying to sort out her spells so that none of them would have to die.

Anya, on the other hand, isn't as experienced a Scooby and wouldn't have as much confidence in their ability to come through with everyone intact. Also, we've already seen (in "Pangs") that she has notions that dying with and/or for one's love is a romantic thing to do.

On the other hand, I'd say "Hello, gay now!" is a definitive answer to any questions about a future X/W romance.

[Corana]

posted 01-11-2001 16:56 EST (US)
Considering Willow's opinion of Anya, she may have been too shocked to react when Anya offered herself for Xander. It would have to be an eye opening moment, that might prove to Willow, once and for all, that Anya does care about Xander.

[Teresa]

posted 01-11-2001 18:21 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by april:

for all intents and purposes, tara's sexual orientation is really neither gay nor bisexual - it's just willow.

---

Amen!!!!!

I've enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts on Triangle. I don't have anything to add just that I loved it. The directing and editing left alot to be desired in areas, but overall I loved it.

Teresa

[xita]

posted 01-11-2001 22:23 EST (US)
Yes Hugin, I think Willow rocked Tara's world. Willow so free with her magic, feeling the good in it. And yes of course, Willow being so cute, Tara just fell hard. And for her to risk her heart like that. It's not hard to see why the rejection of the Doll's Eye crystal devastated Tara.

[EvilAnya]

posted 01-12-2001 12:08 EST (US)
I hope no one got the idea that i was hoping that the "hello gay now" line meant that she was going to be straight again in the future! Quite the contrary!

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 01-12-2001 12:16 EST (US)
Unfortunately, as far as I can tell that's exactly the idea that a lot of people got.

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited January 12, 2001).]

[christa monsta]

posted 01-12-2001 12:24 EST (US)
EvilAnya, I knew what you meant. i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people have seen negative viewpoints about this particular line on other boards. then, when you brought it up (and the rest of us started discussing it) it may have been taken in a way that you (or i, for that matter) had not intended. but that's okay...deep down, we all (kitten-board-people) essentially love willow and tara and aly and amber and the whole buffy crew. we're all just giving our viewpoints.

that's the way i look at it, anyway!

------------------

W: "I am a whiz!"
T: "She is a whiz!"
W: "If ever a whiz there was..."
- The Yoko Factor

[EvilAnya]

posted 01-12-2001 23:32 EST (US)
I didn't mean to start conterversy! i like willow and tara as much as everyone else! It doesn't matter to me whether Willow considers herself gay or straight or bi or whatever. I just care about the relationship between her and Tara. I didn't particularly like the line, but i am glad that it was said.


the thing we miss out on with most of the characters is running monologue on the majority of their feelings. With Buffy we here her tell someone how she feels about everything. With everyone else we get snippets, and we have to guess the rest.

[Jenny68]

posted 01-13-2001 23:59 EST (US)
I wonder if the troll had Tara, instead of Xander, would Willow have spoken up and said 'take me! take me!'?

As for Tara, yes...Willow is obviously her everything. It was touching when Tara and Buffy were in the store and she was very concerned for Willow. Willow and Tara are such a cute couple...

[Roxton]

posted 01-14-2001 12:17 EST (US)
If the troll taken Tara instead of Xander there is no doubt in my mind that Willow would have spoken up and said "take me! take me!". In fact I believe that both Willow and Tara would readily sacrifice themselves in order to protect the other.

[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited January 14, 2001).]

[xita]

posted 01-14-2001 12:38 EST (US)
The more I watch the ending of this episode, the more annoyed I get. I had assumed that the triangle in the title was talking about Xander, Anya and Willow. Someone, somewhere, mentioned that it's about the three couples b/r, x/a and w/t and how they are no longer a triangle. And you can see that as they stand there at the end. From our perspective, w/t are on the bottom left, x/a on the right and Buffy is on the top, alone as one corner of the triangle. Willow and Tara are both looking to their left at Buffy. Xander and Anay to their right. Xander makes a comment and Buffy says something back. Then Buffy looks back to her right to Willow and Tara and tells them how happy and together they are etc. The whole time she's looking at w/t and not X/A, yet they insert a shot of X/A right in the middle of it. Couple this with the cut of the hug and this is completely different episode then what was written.

I don't think it's directing, because the director would have suggested that SMG look at X/A. No she's looking at w/t. I know we have talked about this before but this is an editing issue. An episode where Buffy's mourning manifests in a defense of the other couples, turns into Buffy glorifying X/A.

On a good note, I don't think anyone's mentioned this. I love how spike keeps mentioning that onion. It's really funny.

[april]

posted 01-14-2001 13:39 EST (US)
hee hee...i have a friend who *hates* onions passionately, and adores spike. she felt so betrayed...

jenny68, i think that willow would definately have volunteered to sacrifice herself for tara (note how she immediately yells "tara get back!" when tara enters the magic shop - her first thought, her most primary concern, was for tara). however, i don't think tara would EVER let willow sacrifice herself for her. EVER. the sense i get from tara is that she would much, much sooner die than see willow die.

but the point is moot, because we all know that the two of them would find a way to defeat the troll with some awesome magic...

[Roxton]

posted 01-14-2001 13:48 EST (US)
When Spike kept talking about the onions, did he mean onion rings, because that's what I had a craving for once the topic came up. I love them.

[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited January 14, 2001).]

[Zahir]

posted 01-14-2001 14:23 EST (US)
First of all--there's no doubt in the cosmos that either Willow or Tara would sacrifice themselves for the other. Period. And the way this show goes, odds are good we'll see proof of it before very long.

Second, I thought "Triangle" referred to all sorts of things. There's Willow/Xander/Anya, of course. But let's not forget Xander/Anya/Olaf! Then there's the triangle of W/T, X/A and B/no one. And the triangle of Joyce, Giles and Buffy vis-a-vis Dawn.

------------------
"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Jenny68]

posted 01-14-2001 16:16 EST (US)
alright, well with that determined...*g*

I agree, Willow would have spoke up immediately and demanded the troll kill her instead. But then Tara would have been like, 'No Willow!' and then the troll would have either been really confused at the two girls arguing over which one would be killed, or he'd decide, 'okay, they both want to sacrifice themselves? fine by me!'

[BBOvenGuy]

posted 01-14-2001 16:45 EST (US)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Roxton:
When Spike kept talking about the onions, did he mean onion rings, because that's what I had a craving for once the topic came up.

---

I think Spike was referring to this appetizer where they take the entire onion and slice it into several sections (like a pizza, only thinner slices), and then they arrange it so that the slices are all falling away from the center and it looks like a flower. Out here in the West, there's a restaurant chain called Chili's that makes this thing and calls it "The Awesome Blossom."

This concludes my "useless information post" for today.

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited January 14, 2001).]

[Roxton]

posted 01-14-2001 19:31 EST (US)
Thanks for the information Bob. I'd never heard of that before, but it does sound appetizing.

Congrats on becoming a Big Pineapple. If we don't hear from you we'll know your out gazing at the stars with Amber and Alyson.

[This message has been edited by Roxton (edited January 14, 2001).]

[xita]

posted 01-14-2001 19:37 EST (US)
Yes, it looks great and yummy and I don't even like onions.

[eekiboo]

posted 01-14-2001 22:09 EST (US)
i've rewatched this ep abt 5-6x already and enjoyed it more than ever!

1. i've mentioned this in a previous post but want to reiterate: Tara telling Willow: "i said quirky" re: W's system of different pens. Tara probably made fun of this and teased her about it and Willow got upset, but in a couple-y sort of way. so that means they bicker like an old married couple...heh.heh.

2. Buffy asking the nun re: "abjuring the company of men" and trying on "her wimple" really cracked me up really good!

3. when Olaf was drinking the beer, it's quite obvious that the barrel was empty.

4. the "onion thing" which Spike mentioned also reminded me of "onion rings." yes Roxton, does BK sound familiar? donno if anyone knows this, Burger King Canada has this menu called 'poutine' which consists of french fries with gravy and melted cheese. it's just the best! forget the calories! am sure Olaf would have loved poutine, too..heh.heh.

5. Spike being like a schoolboy saying: "hi, Buffy" and she ignores him while he backs away embarrassed. awwww... but he sneaked "a grab around B's waist" and he sorta felt good about it...heh.heh.

6. Tara's revelation of her allergy to shrimp. atleast she's becoming open to Willow and the others. however, was just wondering how come Willow didn't acknowledge it, like even an "oh?" would have sufficed.

7. Buffy telling Tara their Greek Art prof is spitting way too much. reminded me of my Jrn prof who did exactly the same thing and his dentures kinda fell off his mouth while lecturing... heh.heh.

said enuf. pax.

[Warduke]

posted 01-14-2001 22:19 EST (US)
OMG eekiboo, poutine!!!

I don’t know about the rest of Canada but in this part of the country, everyone loves poutine, it’s funny when I mention it to people from the states and they’re like…what the hell is a poutine???

[cookie monster]

posted 01-15-2001 15:46 EST (US)
Hello everyone, I don't post often but I thought I could clear somthing up. After the troll is sent away the background behind where Anya is standing is some shelves and their orangy. Buffy starts talking blah,blah,blah.... cut back to Anya and Xander and the background is blue. This seems to be the fault of bad continuity, so whoever is in charge of that at the time the scene was shot is at fault. It could be they caught it in the editing but couldn't reshoot the scene so they had to leave it in. So I don't think we can infer anything about the title from this particular scene. Just want to say I liked this episode but it really does bug me that Willow can hug Anya, Buffy can hug Tara, Willow can press herself against Anya's back, but Tara can't hug Willow after being so frightened for Willow's life. Oh well.

cookie monster

[xita]

posted 04-11-2001 03:55 EST (US)
bump for anyone who has anything new to add.

[tyche]

posted 04-11-2001 15:39 EST (US)
On thinking about this ep again, it occurred to me that at least one of Anya's ex-boyfriends was unfaithful to her, thus leading to her becoming a vengeance demon. And given that Anya hasn't been in a relationship for many centuries, and spent all of the intervening time witnessing the worst ways that men can behave, it's not surprising that she saw Willow as a potential threat to her relationship with Xander, even though she wasn't.