OT - The All-Purpose All-Event Winter Olympics Thread

[Artemisia]

I believe the men's freeskate program is on tomorrow evening.

[Anakin1218]

ooh you should be one Bob that would be hella funny to see!

I'd heard what the judges did but didn;t get to see the program till yesterday afternoon and was blown away by how blind the judges could be. Not being a figure skating person myself I of course couldn't go into details but it seems to me they(the judges) made a gross mistake on awarding the medal to the Russians.

Hope someone looks into this and ppl are questioned,I read in the sports section this morning that the guy on the Candaian team may retire from the sport give what happend last night;how &(())Y^%^ is that??? just toss in the towel like that cause some dim whitted judges didn't see what was looking them right in the face.

Anyone know when women's ice hockey is going to be shown???

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"My heart doesn't stutter" -Tara

[BBOvenGuy]

MSNBC has more news on the figure skating controversy. It's not looking good.

The referee of the event (I don't know what a referee does in figure skating, but apparently they have one) has filed a letter with the ISU, detailing "irregularities" he saw in the judging. The referee, by the way, is an American. Meanwhile, the Toronto Globe and Mail has published a report claiming there was collusion among the judges to fix the results of the pairs competition as a trade off for other fixed results in the ice dancing competition. ESPN is saying the same thing.

The ISU says they're making an inquiry, but there's probably nothing they can do to overturn the results from Monday night - which is about what I expected them to say. It will be interesting to see how the ice dancing results turn out.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

[Artemisia]

Spolilery!
Huzzah, the adorable Swiss boy(well i guess young man as he's 20) Simon Amman won Gold in the K120. So he's won Gold in both indiviudal Men's Ski jumping events. Its just amazing- he came off a wicked bad head injury last year & he has never won anything- plus if I understands things correctly, he did 2 yrs of uni work in one yr so he could concentrate on his sking. I am so happy.

On the icky note, the same judges who did the pairs are going to judge ice dancing, so that should be interesting.

Anyone know whether the German women won luge? or is that tonight

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It left us speechless, quite speechless I tell you, and we have not stopped talking of it since.
Miss Bates(emma 2)

[Bobo's Mom]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pixie:

On a lighter note, Bobo's Mom, as I was reading your posts about S/P and B/S, my first thought was "Spike can skate?!?!"

[This message has been edited by Pixie (edited February 13, 2002).]

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As I laugh my head off (thanks why the way) I can’t help but wonder what music Spike would chose for his long program. For some reason, Nine Inch Nails comes to mind!!

Now, to reply to my critics. My attempts here have been in the interest of supplying a different point of view. Should it not be welcomed, I’m more than happy to sit in the corner and not take part in the conversation, or stick to the figure skating boards with my observations (even thought they kind of frighten me with their frame by frame breakdowns of all competitors).

Differences of opinion happen within the judges corps and among the viewing public all the time. All of the judges placed the pairs as close as close can be, a fact that’s getting lost within this debate, both here, and in the media. Three of the judges placed B/S in first, by a slight margin. Four of the judges placed S/P in first, by a slight margin. Two of the judges tied them statistically, but gave slightly higher presentation marks to B/S, which broke the tie in their favor. Throughout this conversation, the major point I have been trying to make has been how very, very close this was, and that it could have gone either way on any judge’s score card. To me, this says that I watched one of the best Olympic Pairs finals ever. The only thing that pushes my buttons was the horrid commentary from the other night that quickly snowballed into a major controversy. A shame, when you think that all nine judges placed the two teams in question a hair’s width apart. It's my feeling that the inquiry will show nothing when I consider this fact. (And my faith in human nature hopes this to be the case).

Anyway, on a realistic note, look at it this way – the Canadian couple will end up being far wealthier in the long run because of this result. Had they just won the gold medal, they would have looked forward to a professional career of some note, perhaps touring with Hamilton’s Stars on Ice. With this controversy, they will have a long, successful and memorable love affair with the North American public that will result in sponsorships, commercials, endorsement deals, etc. They have become household names in a way that they wouldn’t have had they won.

As for the Russians? I fear they are doomed to a future of being booed at ice shows until the day they stop skating, which will be tragic. Even if you disagree with my assessment of the competition, give them a break, not because you thought they won, but because they were fantastic. Why yank away praise for what was good because you disagree with some of the people who judged the programs? Both pairs gave us something memorable, not because of the result, but because of the effort.

Best Wishes,
BM

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TARA: Willow and I always know how to find each other!
ANYA: With yoga?
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BUFFYBOT: That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!

[This message has been edited by Bobo's Mom (edited February 13, 2002).]quote:

[BBOvenGuy]

Oh, in no way do I blame the Russian skaters for what has happened, and I would never boo them if I ever got the chance to see them perform. I've even moved past the results of the event to some degree, since there's really nothing that can be done about them.

What continues to concern me, though, is the judging process itself. The judges have done a tremendous disservice to their sport, and all the participants are going to suffer as a result.

If the rules and criteria are so esoteric that the general public can't understand them, then the rules and criteria need to be changed. People aren't going to watch a sport if they can't understand for themselves who's winning and who's losing. I've heard a number of people (not just Bobo's Mom) say the Russians deserved to win because their routine was more difficult. Okay, maybe that's so - but can't we factor a "Degree of Difficulty" into the scoring system so that everyone can understand it? Diving does. Gymnastics does. Why can't figure skating? I'm sure there are many other possible improvements that could be made.

At best, the judges are simply being arrogant. At worst, they're colluding to fix the outcomes. Either way, the entire sport loses. Something needs to be done.

Maybe I'm just extra-sensitive on the subject of objective judging. I did run a Quality Assurance Department for three years, after all...

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited February 13, 2002).]

[Artemisia]

Bobo's Mom,
oh dear, you sound sort of upset, i for one do not mean to gang up on you, but i should like to say that you are quite wrong when it comes to the Russians. No one has booed them at all. The crowd was quite pleasent to them at the medals ceremony(not uprorious, but by no means rude to them as you imply in your note) I am sure everyone knows that it is not the Russians fault( thought the gentleman has made some rather impolite comments, which is understandable due to the position). Even the NBC commentators who were ever so angry about the results stressed quite strongly it was the judges fault not the skaters. So pray do pity the Russians- they have a gold medal to keep them happy. Pardons if I seem like am attacking you, i only quarrel with one of your points.
hugs
art

[SpookyKitty]

It's too bad that you are taking a simple olympics debate personally. I mean, it wouldn't be a debate if there wasn't a differing opinion. Sorry, but as I said in the beginning I wasn't trying to be mean. Just because most of us here feel that the Canadians should have won, and you don't, doesn't make your opinion any less valid. But that's not gonna stop me for validating my opinion, either. Anyway: Yes, you have been saying it was pretty close, but you favored the Russians. Nothing wrong with that but I feel differently. Um, that would be why I started this debate. I don't think it was just the interviewers that striked controversy. And all of this is about the controversy of the judges decision, I for one never said I hated the Russians, just that the Candians were better. Many others felt the same way, as I've already mentioned them in a previous post I won't go further. This is all about the judges. The fact that (in my opinion) olympic figure skating has been fixed for years. And Artemisia is right: The Russians have never been booed! And the most likely won't be. However S/P are quitting (which is something I heard from an interviewer and may not be true)So to end this I'll put it this way: I'm agreeing to disagree with you. And we'll end it at that. It's too bad because I thought this would have been a great debate because of the controversy but I'll go to another board and hopefully the situation won't repeat.

[lurker1.0]

Just to say this quickly.. S/P aren't quiting. They plan next to go to the World Figure Skating Championships, and have made no plans for after that as of now. There is no truth to the rumour. And if David were in fact going to retire just because of the events that have taken place this week it would be a show of poor sportsmanship on his part.

[Bobo's Mom]

To be honest, I'm not taking this personally, and am more than happy to continue to share view points. Yes, we all agree to disagree, and that's a good thing.

As I've said in all my posts in this thread, the canandians were good, the russians were good. If should have been a wonderful night for this sport I follow with such interest.
Any feelings of dismay I have are directed at the american media, especially the comentators, for turning this whole thing into a mess. Most of my comments have pointed out why it shouldn't have been a mess to begin with. But, I guess NBC wants their ratings.

This has been an interesting conversation that I would like to continue as the nights of skating progress. One slight misunderstanding about my last post. I'm not saying that the russians were booed - I'm saying that their future career was destroyed in terms of earning potental, which I find very sad indeed. An attempt at a metaphor for what will happen to them in light of all of this, nothing more. They'll forever be the one's who were "given" the gold.

Anyway, I have a fanfic chapter to work on!
Best Wishes,
BM

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TARA: Willow and I always know how to find each other!
ANYA: With yoga?
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BUFFYBOT: That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!

[BBOvenGuy]

Still more from MSNBC. This just keeps getting better.

The latest report is that the referee of the pairs event filed his letter listing concerns about judging irregularities after a routine post-event judges meeting. Allegedly at that meeting, the French judge claimed she voted for the Russian pair because she felt pressured to do so by the French figure skating association. This would further the claims that some sort of trade-off is in the works and the payoff will come in the ice dancing competition.

Meanwhile, the Canadian Olympic Association is preparing a formal appeal of the decision. They say they're not asking that the Russians be stripped of their gold medals. What they want is for a second gold medal to be awarded to the Canadian pair. Apparently there's a precedent for doing something like this - it came in a synchronized swimming event during the 1992 games.

Let's see where it goes from here...

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

[Kalita]

Y'know, I was thinking of that synchro medal for a minute - but in that case it wasn't as muddy.

Somehow, one of the judges put in a rediculous mark - a 2.0 instead of a 5.0, or something - BY ACCIDENT. Through events I still don't understand, this was not properly corrected until days later, by which point the swimmer in question had already been handed the silver.

Months later, a small ceremony at Montreal's olympic pool (in the swimmer's hometown) saw her presented with a gold medal to replace her silver.

I would hope things don't take as long if a new medal is to be presented, but with the difference in circumstances I really can't say.

[Wiccagrrl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bobo's Mom:

As for the Russians? I fear they are doomed to a future of being booed at ice shows until the day they stop skating, which will be tragic. Even if you disagree with my assessment of the competition, give them a break, not because you thought they won, but because they were fantastic. Why yank away praise for what was good because you disagree with some of the people who judged the programs? Both pairs gave us something memorable, not because of the result, but because of the effort.

Best Wishes,
BM

---

I have to say I totally agree with you on this. While I do have issues with the results of this event, and questions about the integrity of the judging (and clearly I'm not alone in that) the Russian skaters don't deserve the blame for this. They *are* excellent skaters- probably even better than S/P. I just really felt that, on *this* night, S/P did clearly skate the better performance. And I am happy to hear that SkateCanada is not asking for the Russians Gold Medal to be overturned *if* (and this is a big if) it turns out there were irregularities- just that David and Jamie be given the gold medal they deserved to have won.

quote:

[Artemisia]

umm sorry to be a wicked shrew, but i feel teh need to stress thay no one is blaming the Russians! no one! not the commentators, not the fans, not the papers- if the judges did something wicked on their behalf, then no one at all thinks they are to blame.
are the Russians always going to have doubts about whether or not they deserved it maybe, but think of the Candians who skated the program of their lives( & I am sorry but the Russians did not, at this time) & got a silver. Giving the Russians the Gold on the basis of the prior performance(which is excellent, I remember them from Nagano & wisht they had gotten Gold), which is I fear me what appears to have happened in this case, would be like giving Sale& Peltier the gold in Turin in 2006 even if they have 4 techincal errors because they did a wicked amazing program in this Olympics.

As to the Russians Career, I cannot believe any one to be of such a horrid disposition to take it on them personally. I am still violently irked the Candians did not win & I would be quite pleazed to see the Russians skate(& if not, it not animosity towards them, but a lack of love for their style being one who perfers a more personable & lively presentation.
To lurker 1.0 & Bobo's Mom, I am glad we are having this discussion & i should like you both to stay & talk about it.
Breaking NEWS(11:23 indy time)
Oh Bloody hell, Mam just told me the French judge admitted she was pressured to vote that way!( Oh dear gawd! gott in himmell!) This is going to interesting.
*edited to add am ditz grrl & though read BBOven Guy's post up top must have gone into come where he wrote about french judge admiting it* end edit

On the other events, I want to say Go German Gals in Luge- congrats to Kitties from there. )

[This message has been edited by Artemisia (edited February 13, 2002).]

[Under Her Spell]

Would that mean two gold medals?! Would that be an olympic first?

I can't help but wonder if the judges were trying too hard not to seem biased towards Canada (as there's a lot of Canadian support in Salt Lake), and marked the Canadians down because of that.

Part of the problem is that (in my opinion) all the best sports have some judging element in them - I find the "let's see who can get to the bottom of the hill fastest" sports incredibly boring! The only other sports I like are things like curling or ice hockey, which are team-based.

[Wiccagrrl]

First of all, yes, they are asking that, if it comes to that, two gold medals be awarded. And no, that wouldn't be a first. Any time there is a tie (which does happen) the top two are given gold and the third place gets Bronze. Also people here have been mentioning a somewhat similar situation in syncro. swimming. (although that was apparently an accident)

I think there are plenty of things they could do to clean up the judging without giving up on judged events completely. IIRC, when we first started talking about this, wasn't it mentioned that there were no manditory deductions for the long programs. That in and of itself seems like it would help.

[kitten scout]

If they do award a second gold medal, it would be nice if they do it during the Olympics.

[Artemisia]

I've just read on MSNBC that the French judge for pairs is denying she said anything about being pressured- hmm could the french skating comittee be leaning on her again?

[grifter]

Renate Goetschl won silver in the women´s alpine combination competition!

She´s got bronze in the downhill, silver in the combo...so what´s left for the super g? Righto, GOLD! My money´s on her...

Austria has 1 gold, 2 silver and what? 8 bronze medals now? Kinda strange somehow...

[Kalita]

YES!!! Canada has a gold! Women's 500m Speed Skating, Catroina LeMay-Doan has defended her Olympic championship in fine style.

Interestingly enough, she's the first Canandian gold medalist to repeat an individual medal in the same event - EVER. Winter, summer, any discipline.

Go Cat! And good luck in the later events, too - there's a relay medal to defend as well.

[shannon720]

ok i really have to stop watching. after that canadian skater fell, and now an american skiier fell. i get so wrapped up in it and i feel so bad for them when this happens. ugh! i really want to give them a hug.

[SpookyKitty]

You know what I love about speed skating? The guy that always says "Ready" in the beginning of the race has the most bizarre voice! I giggle for like five minutes everytime I hear him. Hhehehehehehhe!

[Artemisia]

Hoo-ah! Timothy Goebel won Bronze( i would have been more happy if he won silver, but who am I to complain- got all weepy over Eldridge leaving, but he did an amazing program & was in first place until the last 5 skaters which is splendid! hmm, yes, I agree with Shannon on being upset when people fall- poor Caroyln(sic>Lalive to fall in both her events, but I give her such credit
I am very glad for Renate- it's her second medal,so far correct? how is it possible that America has as many medals as Austria? Have I entered a parrallel universe?
so did anyone else watch the men's program? what do ya'll think?
(yay Goebel got bronze)

[La]

I just finished watching the men's competition with my host sis. The Russian who won Gold was awesome. And the second he finished he totally knew he'd won too - the crowd's reaction was great. Straight 5.9s on technical and 5.9s and 3 6.0s in artistic ... that's pretty cool. He did a quadrupal, triple, double combination beautifully. This is why I love watching figure skating.

So when does the women's skating start?

~La

[judy]

Women's figure skating short program is next Tuesday night (2.19) and long program is Thurs night (2.21).

[Dave V]

Saw Catriona LeMay Doan's race on the news recaps. She's one powerful skater. Hope she does well in her next race, too.

Also, it was very cool to see how much her husband supported her and how she in turn had him with her for the media interviews. I liked when he said it was harder to watch her race than to wrestle steers (he's a rodeo cowboy).

[Caity]

Judy - thanks for posting the dates for the womens figure skating!!

Caity

[Kalita]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave V:
Also, it was very cool to see how much her husband supported her and how she in turn had him with her for the media interviews.

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Yeah, Bart's quite a guy. I remember him from Nagano; he doesn't strike me at first as a rodeo kind of guy, but there is something of an edge there.

Quite a valentine's present this medal was, too...quote:

[Warduke]

The Canadian figure skaters were just awarded the gold medals (well they don't have them yet but will get them on the 21st)...WOO HOO!

The Russians were allowed to keep their gold medals and the French judge was suspended.

About damn time

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 15, 2002).]

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Kalita
Big Pineapple


Posts: 1063
Registered: Jan 2001 posted February 15, 2002 14:03               

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Hmm... according to the details I checked (here), they rejected the French judge's marks. They did NOT, however put in the alternate Czech judge's marks, thus making this a tie for gold, and not a switch in the gold and silver positions.

It would be somewhat unfair to the Russian pair to do so, so I'm okay with that. So long as it is finally over and done with!

[This message has been edited by Kalita (edited February 15, 2002).]

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Irascible
Floating Rose


Posts: 42
Registered: Feb 2001 posted February 15, 2002 14:44            

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Woo hoo! I think this turned out as best it could. Dual gold medals...or is that quadruple? Congrats to both pairs.

On a side note? Did anyone see David Pelletier and Jamie Sale perform on stage with the Bare Naked Ladies in the medals plaza? I thought it was hysterical!

Bring on Women's Ice Hockey!

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 15, 2002).]

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BBOvenGuy
Strong like an Amazon


Posts: 3403
Registered: Sep 2000 posted February 15, 2002 15:41               

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Woo-Hoo! The pairs figure skating mess is over!

And just in time for the Ice Dancing to begin, too...

Meanwhile, I really like that Swiss ski jumping guy, even if he does look like Harry Potter.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

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Shaniezak
Gay Now!


Posts: 1249
Registered: Apr 2001 posted February 15, 2002 15:51               

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And a woo hoo to the US women's hockey team for the latest 12-1 victory over China . . . next stop, Finland, which also has a 2-0 record . . .

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shellybean
Cool Monster Fighter


Posts: 150
Registered: May 2001 posted February 15, 2002 15:54               

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YAY!!! Sale and Pelletier got their much deserved GOLD medals!!! And that French judge was permanently suspended!! I didn't really watch much of the Olympics but was watching when they skated and was so upset when they didn't win the Gold! But now they have it! Yay! Go North America!!

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imperfectly
Willowhand


Posts: 424
Registered: May 2001 posted February 15, 2002 15:55               

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I think they came to a fair conclusion. It’s not the Russian pair’s fault, so they should keep their gold. But, boy, did the Canadians deserve that gold hardware around their necks. Thank heavens it’s over.

And how cute are those spunky Canadian skaters? The Bare Naked Ladies performance was a hoot.

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Well, now that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head.

IP: Logged

[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 15, 2002).]IP: LoggedKalitaBig Pineapple


Posts: 1063
Registered: Jan 2001 posted February 15, 2002 14:03               

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Hmm... according to the details I checked (here), they rejected the French judge's marks. They did NOT, however put in the alternate Czech judge's marks, thus making this a tie for gold, and not a switch in the gold and silver positions.

It would be somewhat unfair to the Russian pair to do so, so I'm okay with that. So long as it is finally over and done with!

[This message has been edited by Kalita (edited February 15, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted February 15, 2002 14:03                Hmm... according to the details I checked (here), they rejected the French judge's marks. They did NOT, however put in the alternate Czech judge's marks, thus making this a tie for gold, and not a switch in the gold and silver positions.

It would be somewhat unfair to the Russian pair to do so, so I'm okay with that. So long as it is finally over and done with!

[This message has been edited by Kalita (edited February 15, 2002).]IP: LoggedIrascibleFloating Rose


Posts: 42
Registered: Feb 2001 posted February 15, 2002 14:44            

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Woo hoo! I think this turned out as best it could. Dual gold medals...or is that quadruple? Congrats to both pairs.

On a side note? Did anyone see David Pelletier and Jamie Sale perform on stage with the Bare Naked Ladies in the medals plaza? I thought it was hysterical!

Bring on Women's Ice Hockey!

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 15, 2002).]

IP: Logged

posted February 15, 2002 14:44             Woo hoo! I think this turned out as best it could. Dual gold medals...or is that quadruple? Congrats to both pairs.

On a side note? Did anyone see David Pelletier and Jamie Sale perform on stage with the Bare Naked Ladies in the medals plaza? I thought it was hysterical!

Bring on Women's Ice Hockey!

[This message has been edited by Irascible (edited February 15, 2002).]IP: LoggedBBOvenGuyStrong like an Amazon


Posts: 3403
Registered: Sep 2000 posted February 15, 2002 15:41               

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Woo-Hoo! The pairs figure skating mess is over!

And just in time for the Ice Dancing to begin, too...

Meanwhile, I really like that Swiss ski jumping guy, even if he does look like Harry Potter.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

IP: Logged

posted February 15, 2002 15:41                Woo-Hoo! The pairs figure skating mess is over!

And just in time for the Ice Dancing to begin, too...

Meanwhile, I really like that Swiss ski jumping guy, even if he does look like Harry Potter.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)IP: LoggedShaniezakGay Now!


Posts: 1249
Registered: Apr 2001 posted February 15, 2002 15:51               

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And a woo hoo to the US women's hockey team for the latest 12-1 victory over China . . . next stop, Finland, which also has a 2-0 record . . .

IP: Logged

posted February 15, 2002 15:51                And a woo hoo to the US women's hockey team for the latest 12-1 victory over China . . . next stop, Finland, which also has a 2-0 record . . .IP: LoggedshellybeanCool Monster Fighter


Posts: 150
Registered: May 2001 posted February 15, 2002 15:54               

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YAY!!! Sale and Pelletier got their much deserved GOLD medals!!! And that French judge was permanently suspended!! I didn't really watch much of the Olympics but was watching when they skated and was so upset when they didn't win the Gold! But now they have it! Yay! Go North America!!

IP: Logged

posted February 15, 2002 15:54                YAY!!! Sale and Pelletier got their much deserved GOLD medals!!! And that French judge was permanently suspended!! I didn't really watch much of the Olympics but was watching when they skated and was so upset when they didn't win the Gold! But now they have it! Yay! Go North America!!IP: LoggedimperfectlyWillowhand


Posts: 424
Registered: May 2001 posted February 15, 2002 15:55               

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I think they came to a fair conclusion. It’s not the Russian pair’s fault, so they should keep their gold. But, boy, did the Canadians deserve that gold hardware around their necks. Thank heavens it’s over.

And how cute are those spunky Canadian skaters? The Bare Naked Ladies performance was a hoot.

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Well, now that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head.

IP: Logged

posted February 15, 2002 15:55                I think they came to a fair conclusion. It’s not the Russian pair’s fault, so they should keep their gold. But, boy, did the Canadians deserve that gold hardware around their necks. Thank heavens it’s over.

And how cute are those spunky Canadian skaters? The Bare Naked Ladies performance was a hoot.

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Well, now that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head.

[Kalita]

Hmm... according to the details I checked (here), they rejected the French judge's marks. They did NOT, however put in the alternate Czech judge's marks, thus making this a tie for gold, and not a switch in the gold and silver positions.

It would be somewhat unfair to the Russian pair to do so, so I'm okay with that. So long as it is finally over and done with!

[This message has been edited by Kalita (edited February 15, 2002).]