On Spike:Here's the deal. I'm speaking for myself here, but my perceptions are shaped by my work as a moderator.
Spike is possibly the most problematic, divisive character in the history of Buffy fandom. And while that is in one sense an impressive testament to James Marsters and the writers, it doesn't make the effect Spike has in fandom less problematic.
It's not that he's bad. Good evil characters are fun. Faith, the Mayor, Angelus, bad guys being popular is no problem at all.
It's not that he was with Buffy. I have no particular caring about Buffy's love life, I was never a hardcore Buffy/Anyone shipper, and that first time Spike had an erotic dream about Buffy I was as amused and intrigued by the developments as the next person
It's not that they may or may not have been trying to alter the character. I am not unfamiliar with the literary concept of character evolution, or redemption arcs. The idea of Spike, or any evil character becoming good over time is not anathaema to me. Or vice-versa for that matter, tragic descent into evil is compelling drama as well.
Its two things.
One: I'm not made of stone. I'm a big sappy romantic, and I can perfectly well see that Spike loves Buffy, in his way. But sometimes I feel like B/S shippers aren't willing, intellectually, to meet me halfway. To the point where I feel like I'm trying to gauge an argument as either: Insulting of my intelligence, suspect in it's sanity, or suspect in it's morality.
For example: The murder of innocents is bad. Spike murdered many many innocents. Spike is a bad person. Unless possibly he seems to regret murdering innocents, and determines to stop doing that. Except, he doesn't express regret, and when given the opportunity, he tries to kill innocents.
Logically, I'm stuck. I can't work my way out of that intellectually. I repeat, I'm not against redemption per se, but that's just an awfully big stumbling block.
And I can't work with "Well it's small steps now, first he feels love for Buffy, and the rest of it develops over time." Because he demands access to Buffy now. Because Buffy sleeps with him now. It puts the character development cart before the horse. It means that Buffy serves Spike, as a mechanism of his development. That the hero of the show sleeps, knowingly, with an evil character, today, who may or may not become good some day in the future, and Buffy doesn't even have a stated goal of rehabilitating him. In other words, goodness is not actually required of him. It would be merely be nice, it would make things easier, more socially acceptable. Goodness then becomes something that isn't necessary, but instead, merely a character accessory to enhance Spike's attactiveness. Anything that Spike does that's illegal, immoral, or reprehensible doesn't make him bad, it merely makes him slightly more embarassing to date, or to defend as a good boyfriend.
Spike attacks a woman? Spike makes a deal with criminals? Spike endangers innocents? Spike shows no interest in Buffy taking moral responsibility for her actions?
It's the writer's fault for not showing Spike to be snarky and edgy, but still consistently good. It's Buffy's fault for not respecting him or not loving him or playing games with his heart. It's Angel's fault for getting to be an exception to the rules. It's Riley's fault for being boring. It's the chip's fault for not letting him show he can be good on his own. It's the Scoobies fault for not seeing that the chip makes him harmless. It's Dru's fault for turning him in the first place. It's the population of the rest of the world's fault for not being closely related to Buffy. Anything but Spike. The transmutation of bad acts into embarassing acts is the biggest problem I have with Spike. Willow's bad acts are bad acts. Angel's bad acts are bad acts. Spike's bad acts are...inconvenient, when they aren't explained away altogether.
When is it Spike's fault? When does anyone break down and say Spike is blowing it by continuing to do evil things as if the good people in his life won't mind? Because either Spike is responsible for his actions, or he isn't. If he isn't, then he's just a pretty, pretty monster with a quick wit. And if he is, then he can't progress until he takes that responisbility, in a wider way than his relationship to Buffy. If they were alone in the universe, that would be enough, I could shrug and say "Buffy accepts him on his own terms for better or worse." and so be it. But until Spike make any effort at all to come to terms with the greater world around him, then he's just pressing buttons to get Buffy pellets.
When the bad things Spike does are acknowledged as both actually bad, and current, active, valid aspects of his character not things in his past to be glossed over, is when I can talk usefully about him with B/S shippers and Spike fans. When Spike acknowledges it to himself within the show, and tries to do something about it, is when I can get behind Spike redemption. Remember way way back, when he was helping the injured woman in the Bronze and exasperated with Buffy for not crediting him for it? I was on board then, more or less. I'm not hopeless, see?
Two: As a moderator, I've seen "Spike/Buffy, good or bad?", "Spike, good or bad?" etc, topics swallow discussions whole, and get so contentious and so tiresome that list and board moderators have felt forced to temporarily or permanently shut down the topic just for sanity's sake. It happened at BAPS, it happened at Cross and Stake, it partially happened at TelevisionWithoutPity (formerly MightyBigTV), and we've flirted with varying degrees of it here. Some topics engender such deep seated feelings, polarize the various camps so much, that the debate tends to engender dread and (eventually) numbness rather than illumination or entertainment for many of the participants on both sides, let alone the poor folks on the sidelines trying to slog through it to something else. Spike fans and B/S shippers are sick of being attacked I'm sure. Non-Spike fans, and folks with anti B/S feelings are heartily sick of Spuffy in turn.
But, from the point of view of a moderator, and someone who communicates a bit with other moderators, and keeps track of the fandom, and cannot simply ignore or skim over subjects (on this board) that don't personally interest me, the whole thing has slowly become poison, second only to the Tara as BSD rumors in degree of painfulness and actually much more pervasive and unavoidable across the fandom. It's nothing to do with the topic per se. Anything that stirs up so much negativity from both sides, so frequently, gets me down. The endless and irrational Riley hate. The "Is Buffy a slut" stuff from a few years ago. The BSD rumors. Fandom latches onto things and doesn't let them go sometimes, and honestly, it gets old, no matter what the merits of the debate.
That's me on Spike.
Ew. Not that way.
-len
[This message has been edited by Hugin (edited February 27, 2002).]
