subtext thread

[xita]

We've made this thread to discuss any subtext in shows, movies etc. Feel free to post any minor subtext.

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"Everthing's just turning out so dark..."
"No, it's okay. Lost is good. Willow and I always know how to find each other!"

[Hemiola*]

Um...did anyone catch the Phoebe/Monica "massage" sequences last night?
Very interesting from the "subtextual" point of view, n'est-ce pas ?

*reposted by WillTara

[jitterbug*]

Just wondering if anyone else sees the major subtext between T'Pol and Hoshi on Enterprise. It was especially evident in this week's ep,'Sleeping Dogs',when T'Pol did this 'dinky mind meld'thing by massaging Hoshi's hand,and Hoshi almost looked like she came...and then T'Pol said something like,"When we get back to the ship,i'll teach you how to do it yourself."or something like that. Thoughts,anyone?

*reposted by WillTara

[Strangyr]

I dont know about weather or not that was the type of subtext they ment between T'Pol and Hoshi.........But i sure like what you read into it. (grin)

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"This calls for a particularly subtle blend of psychology and extereme violence."
Vivian, "The Young Ones

[Hugin]

Well, to be honest, I didn't see the Hoshi/T'Pol scene as very subtextual. I'm not a subtext-blind viewer, I see it and enjoy it, but in this case, it just seemed like two crewmembers bonding who both happened to be female.

We'll see if T'Pol and Hoshi continue to have significant moments between them, this is really the first one I've even noticed thus far.

-len

[Kirk B]

I noticed the (to me) subtextual nature of the scene between T'Pol and Hoshi as well, though I will admit this was the first time I'd ever seen them interact.

I was, and pretty much still am, under the impression the PTB were going to have something happen between T'Pol and Trip, the engineer.

ST doesn't seem to like same sex couples after all, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

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Kirk B

"A Willow is a tree that weeps, but Tara is firmer and will hold.”

Hear that baby? You're my always.

I got so lost.
I found you. I will always find you.

[Kalita]

Yeah, the T'Pol/Hoshi scene raised my eyebrows, but it was more as a 'wow, the female characters finally get a scene together', rather than as anything sexual.

It did have a slight overture of sensuality, but that might be more from T'pol's skintight outfits than anything else...

[Cicca]

Yes, I was raising an eyebrow at Hoshi and T'Pol. Either way, it'll be nice for these two to have some sort of relationship. That's what will make the show interesting. Not whatever fancy alien make-up they do each week.
And to be completely naughty, how about something between Hoshi, Reed, and T'Pol? heh They all looked pretty comfy in the pseudo-sauna.

[BBOvenGuy]

I saw the scene between Hoshi and T'Pol, and yes it did make me think, "Ooooh, what are the Kittens going to say about that?"

However, as T'Pol is a Vulcan I don't see it going anywhere, since Vulcans supposedly become sexually active only once every seven years.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"
(...and Marti's rather fond of them, too...)

"You haven’t seen the last of Tara and Willow, that’s for sure." - Marti Noxon, March 2002 edition of Dreamwatch

[tommo]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
Vulcans supposedly become sexually active only once every seven years.

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Vulcans and some lesbians, Bob. You forgot to mention the lesbians...

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"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdockquote:

[Kalita]

quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
since Vulcans supposedly become sexually active only once every seven years.

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IIRC, that's the Vulcan MEN. In a heterosexual, uniracial relationship, that would apply for the women as well, sure... but if a Vulcan woman got involved with a non-vulcan, or a woman... who knows? quote:

[tommo]

It's the lesbians. It is!

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"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock

[spuckie]

ah.. and if she's a lesbian vulcan, is she doubly screwed? er... or in this case... not?

[Hemiola]

Doesn't anybody want to talk about what happened on "Friends"????

[ArtemisEcstasy]

Oh yes, Hemiola. I've been saying for some time now that I want some Street Phoebe flashbacks, and after Thursday night's episode, I want them more than ever. I'm wondering if Phoebe has a completely hetero past, hee! Anyway, Lisa Kudrow is one of my favorite comedic actresses, she's really the only reason I still watch the show, she can pull off anything. The final scene where she gets all butch on Monica was great.

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i feel her eyes watching me
from behind the curtain of her hair
and she says i'm sorry
i didn't mean to stare
-Ani DiFranco

[xita]

I don't regularly watch Friends and I was watching this and it was so funny. Say my name! Say my name! Hee , cracked me up.

And did anyone watch Rose Red. I am not sure on the spelling on these names but did anyone else think there was an implication of homosexuality between Sukeena and Ellen Rimbauer. The way that professor insisted on calling sukeenda Ellen's companion. And also the way they held hands as they both shoved Ellen's husband out a window. This is one of those times where I wish that implication was being made.

[EricAlan69]

Xita-

I definitely thought that the implication was one of romantic involvement between Ellen Rimbauer and Sukeena- see, they just got pushed too far, and it was time for the retribution! Even though, as a whole, Rose Red was sort of lame for Stephen King standards, I thought some of the performances were great, and would definitely watch it again.

love and witchiechix,

e.

[Scarecrow]

As a horror / Clive Barker fan I am obligated to mention this. People must be getting fed up by now!

In Hellbound: hellraiser II the male 'hero' is killed off pretty quick and two female leads take centre stage. They have great chemistry together and i swear that evrytime i watch it i'm SURE they are gonna kiss at somepoint! lol, cool film and since the movie is FULL of subtext (damn critics didn't get it!) i'm always gonna remmeber this one!

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The Futures Bright. The Futures Joss.
"Liberate tutemet ex inferis"

"Me and Willow always know how to find each other"

"There is no good, Munroe, there is no evil. There is only flesh"

"There are some corners of the Universe that have bred the most terrible things, things that stand against everything we believe in. They must be fought"

[Zahir]

Yeah, I saw Rose Red and saw the same subtext-y stuff as Xita. More, I thought the whole bit about Ellen Rimbauer's "favorite guest" at her parties (i.e. the actress) was kinda subtextual as well. As Dr. Reardon said, Rose Red likes the ladies...

(BTW, methought Rose Red was not up the King's best. Went out and rented Storm of the Century for my gf, which we both agree is much better, more powerful and moving. Still, it was a good Haunted House story, much better than most.)

Other subtext--I've theories about Chiana on Farscape, especially after her...reaction...to an "androgyn" of her people (evidently, a full hermaphrodite).

And yeah, ya gotta wonder about Phoebe. Ya just gotta.

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"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[jagged]

Well in one of the Star Trek New Frontier Books I do remember one of the female Vulcans went through her Ponn Farr and asked for the um help of another Vulcan female on the ship. New Frontier is my favourite of Star Trek books since they are all written by Peter David who is just great.

[Eyes Without A Face]

Well, there's one scene in John Carpenter's 1987 übercreepy Prince Of Darkness where an asian graduate student (Lisa) tells the other (a radiologist who is the first absorbed/zombiefied by the evil) that she's not gay when she thinks that the she is coming unto her. Of course, the now-evil one responds by spitting juicy prebiotic devil water in her face & mouth, like the French kiss from hell.

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Illegitimi non carborundum!

[This message has been edited by Eyes Without A Face (edited February 02, 2002).]

[fell]

I had a fit of giggles at the idea of the only female bridge officers on "Enterprise" getting together. The guys are such a boring bunch of stiffs (like too many recent Star Trek characters), and I was picturing them all whining about being "a million light years from home and the only elgible women are gay". It certainly would add an interesting twist, plus some desperately needed interpersonal tension.

Like so many tv shows, Enterprise tries so hard to be inoffensive that it ends up being totally bland. Smallville is another victim of this '7th Heaven' syndrome. The Kent family is so wholesome it makes me gag.

As much as I'd love to see it, I don't think T'Pol and Hoshi will be getting together in the Star Trek universe. Slash fic, though, is another plate of oysters entirely. Those two have such great chemistry, I think that's where much of the subtext comes from.

[This message has been edited by fell (edited February 03, 2002).]

[Strangyr]

Whats wrong with wholesome shows.....personaly i think it good to have at least a few of them on T.V......lets face it....do you realy want kids watching NYPD blue or shows with that mutch crap (violense and sutch).
And as for Smallville......they changed the original storie line to make it more modern.....if they changed it any more it wouldn't be about young Clark Kent anymore.

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"This calls for a particularly subtle blend of psychology and extereme violence."
Vivian, "The Young Ones

[nika]

I think there's nothing more subtexty than kid shows and catoons a few examples:

Bert & Ernie, pinky & brain, sponge bob & pat, bugs bunny...when he dressed up as girl elmer fudd couldn't help but drool, also bugs and daffy come on he let the duck ride on his back while burrowing their way down to romantic sunny locations on the globe, even if they did always make that wrong left turn in albaqurque... the tele tubbies not just the pink one all of them I say, velma from scooby-doo and fred with that ascott tsk-tsk bi at the very least...I know there are more that escape me at the moment.

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"Eat lot's of applesauce, preferably fed to you by attractive young lesbians." Amber Benson

[ArtemisEcstasy]

Bert and Ernie definitely. I also heard that some of the original Sailor Moon characters were lesbians, but were changed when the show came to the US. My attitude is that there are so few queer people really visible on TV and in the movies, that it only makes sense to speculate about certain characters.

[Zahir]

You know, there was a lot of speculation among fans of Forever Knight about the relationship between Nick and LaCroix. Ah, what is it about the undead...? I remember reading outraged emails from people who insisted there was ZERO romance between Nick and Natalie, and that there was never ANYTHING between Nick and Janette. (Myself, I was always hoping Natalie and Janette would have more screen-time together.)

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"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[ReiZo]

oh no.. there was no lesbian subtext in sailor moon... maybe in the R movie .. there was gay subtext between mamoru (darien) and the space guy..
if you want a cartoon with lesbian subtext.. I'd sugest utena la filette revolutionarie and utena the movie adolescene mokushiroku (this one has more lesbian scenes than the series )

card captor sakura has some gay subtext between yukito and touya.. and sakura's best friend seems to me like a lesbian..

BTW if you want cartoons full of gay/lesbian subtext i'd rather sugest you to watch anime..or read manga.

and well speakin' of tv series..in "the others" when mary anne gets what "she wants" she gets a female roommate that is very interested in her . and that makes her feel special

[xe39]

yes....yes....they don't have subtext in Sailor moon.....BUT...they have a lesbian couple there....it's Sailor Urabus (always in men's colth) and Sailor Neptune, but they didn't show up a lot.......

How about XENA and GABRIELLE ?
They don't count in Subtext anymore???
they have never ever say that they are lovers in the show......

[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited February 04, 2002).]

[La]

how about the movie Fried Green tomatoes (i never read the book so I don't know if it was sub-texty at all in there ...)? Idgie is only vaguely interested in men, but totally dotes on Ruth. hmmm?

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~la

[Hemiola]

Re: "Forever Knight"--actually, the relationship between Nick and LaCroix was more "son/father" than anything else. LaCroix frequently stated how "disappointed" he was in the behavior of his "children" .

Re: "Fried Green Tomatoes"--as far as I can tell, you didn't have subtext, but actual TEXT in this movie.
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"TOWAAAAANNNNDAAAAAA!"
from "Fried Green Tomatoes"