And please do not post any spoilers for future episodes in this thread, those belong in the spoiler thread.
by Warduke » Mon Feb 04, 2002 2:45 pm
And please do not post any spoilers for future episodes in this thread, those belong in the spoiler thread.
by Warduke » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:22 pm
When I saw Tara appear on the screen my face lit up like a Christmas tree
She looked so beautiful, I (like the rest of you) had really missed her, it’s so great to have her back again.
Ok, after a long wait, we finally have a W/T scene, well what can I say, you can feel the love in this scene, it wasn’t as awkward as I thought, a little awkward but not that bad. When Tara tries to hide the magic book from Willow, she tells Tara that she didn’t expect her to stop using magic too, she tells her she doesn’t have to hide the book, then she proudly says "No spells for 32 days!", and she can even go in the Magic Shop now, as long as someone’s with her at all times, Tara looked so proud of her. Willow then says "In case you were checking up on me." But Tara said "No, I wouldn’t…I was just looking for Buffy." Willow tells her she hasn't seen Buffy since last night and that "She’s not around much these days, we kinda miss her." Tara tells her "I’m sure she feels the same way."...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
The last scene with Tara and Buffy…Leoff did a great job of describing this scene, so I don’t have much to add, except Tara was really supportive of Buffy, it’s good that she has someone like Tara to help her with this.
Much better episode than the last few weeks, I can't say explain how good it felt to see Tara again...sigh...and W/T telling each other they missed one another, that was the sweetest thing I've seen in a long time on Buffy, can't wait for next weeks ep. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 04, 2002).]
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Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
But YAY! for the W/T scene [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
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But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
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quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
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Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
-len
IP: Logged
I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
IP: Logged
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
IP: Logged
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
IP: Logged
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: Logged
The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
IP: Logged
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
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I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
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[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: LoggedAutumnTSassy Eggs ------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 20:29 Did they leave the line in where Tara says something about understanding about not being out in the open about it because of being a lesbian?------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: LoggedWardukeStrong like an Amazon But YAY! for the W/T scene [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
-len
IP: Logged
I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
IP: Logged
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
IP: Logged
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
IP: Logged
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: Logged
The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
IP: Logged
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
But YAY! for the W/T scene [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
-len
IP: Logged
I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
IP: Logged
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
IP: Logged
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
IP: Logged
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: Logged
The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
IP: Logged
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: LoggedAutumnTSassy Eggs But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
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posted February 04, 2002 20:33 Well, that's a bummer.But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
IP: LoggedScoutBig Pineapple
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posted February 04, 2002 21:06 Thanks for the details, Brian. I was a little worried about the painfulness of the W/T scene, but your description makes it sound very sweet. Really looking forward to this ep.IP: LoggedRallyCool Monster Fighter
quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:08quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:15 AWWWWWW.I can't wait to see this ep.------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: LoggedxitaMs. Moderator IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:25 Oh well, as much as I would have liked that line staying in, I am glad that it wasn't in because well I didn't want the two things associated. If that makes sense.IP: LoggedLegsDoll's Eye Crystal Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:56 Awwwww!!! I want to see this ep SO bad!! I really liked the W/T scenes! God I missed Tara! It's just not the same w/o her! At all!!Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: LoggedThe RoseSassy Eggs ------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 23:11 They could have cut some of the B/S stuff to retain that one line.------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: LoggedHuginMs. Moderator -len
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 23:25 Frankly, I'm sort of glad they sort of de-linked Tara's hiding attraction to Willow/women in general to Buffy's hiding attraction to Spike. For me they aren't equivalent, and Tara can be supportive of Buffy without going there.-len
IP: LoggedAutumnTSassy Eggs I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 00:08 OK, I see your point. I'll stop being bitter about the dropped line.I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: LoggedtommoLesbian Gay Type Lover This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 05:40 Autumn, I hear ya. I just like hearing the word lesbian. Oh wait...no I don't! I like the word 'truculent' or 'termagent' much better...This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 07:25 What about effulgent?------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 07:36 effervescentoh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 09:43 Very very good episode with lots of wonderful W/T bits. I really enjoyed most of the B/S scenes, this is a very strong episode.What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 10:57 My Tawa is back!*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: LoggedHamCool Monster Fighter The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 13:17 wow, what an ep.The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 14:03 It's too bad that they took this turn with the Lame Gunmen. I liked them better as comic relief.But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 15:51 Hey, I live in california... an i don't have whatever you guys have....so, I can't wait to see this ep.......IP: LoggedgrifterCool Monster Fighter First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 17:37 Just saw "Dead Things" (thanks a lot to oncemorewithfeeling for making it viewable so early on). Here are some observations (kinda Troika-centric, because I jst love them):First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: LoggedWardukeStrong like an Amazon quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Loggedmiss_spanglesCool Monster Fighter IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 18:05 yeah, i would have to agree that you're being very harsh on Willow. Afterall, Tara was (and is) in love with Willow and it really wasn't the same as using a mind-control thing to alter someone's behaviour and make them sleep with someone who they never would have otherwise. Willow did the wrong thing but I can't see it as the same thing. IP: LoggedgrifterCool Monster Fighter I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 18:18 I am sorry I did not make it clear enough what I meant above, so here goes.I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
by AutumnT » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:29 pm
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
by Warduke » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:31 pm
But YAY! for the W/T scene [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: Logged
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
-len
IP: Logged
I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
IP: Logged
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
IP: Logged
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
IP: Logged
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: Logged
The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
IP: Logged
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: LoggedAutumnTSassy Eggs But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 20:33 Well, that's a bummer.But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
IP: LoggedScoutBig Pineapple
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:06 Thanks for the details, Brian. I was a little worried about the painfulness of the W/T scene, but your description makes it sound very sweet. Really looking forward to this ep.IP: LoggedRallyCool Monster Fighter
quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:08quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:15 AWWWWWW.I can't wait to see this ep.------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: LoggedxitaMs. Moderator IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:25 Oh well, as much as I would have liked that line staying in, I am glad that it wasn't in because well I didn't want the two things associated. If that makes sense.IP: LoggedLegsDoll's Eye Crystal Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 21:56 Awwwww!!! I want to see this ep SO bad!! I really liked the W/T scenes! God I missed Tara! It's just not the same w/o her! At all!!Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
IP: LoggedThe RoseSassy Eggs ------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 23:11 They could have cut some of the B/S stuff to retain that one line.------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
IP: LoggedHuginMs. Moderator -len
IP: Logged
posted February 04, 2002 23:25 Frankly, I'm sort of glad they sort of de-linked Tara's hiding attraction to Willow/women in general to Buffy's hiding attraction to Spike. For me they aren't equivalent, and Tara can be supportive of Buffy without going there.-len
IP: LoggedAutumnTSassy Eggs I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 00:08 OK, I see your point. I'll stop being bitter about the dropped line.I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
IP: LoggedtommoLesbian Gay Type Lover This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 05:40 Autumn, I hear ya. I just like hearing the word lesbian. Oh wait...no I don't! I like the word 'truculent' or 'termagent' much better...This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 07:25 What about effulgent?------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 07:36 effervescentoh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 09:43 Very very good episode with lots of wonderful W/T bits. I really enjoyed most of the B/S scenes, this is a very strong episode.What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 10:57 My Tawa is back!*jumps arround in a very silly way*
IP: LoggedHamCool Monster Fighter The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 13:17 wow, what an ep.The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 14:03 It's too bad that they took this turn with the Lame Gunmen. I liked them better as comic relief.But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 15:51 Hey, I live in california... an i don't have whatever you guys have....so, I can't wait to see this ep.......IP: LoggedgrifterCool Monster Fighter First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 17:37 Just saw "Dead Things" (thanks a lot to oncemorewithfeeling for making it viewable so early on). Here are some observations (kinda Troika-centric, because I jst love them):First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
IP: LoggedWardukeStrong like an Amazon quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Loggedmiss_spanglesCool Monster Fighter IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 18:05 yeah, i would have to agree that you're being very harsh on Willow. Afterall, Tara was (and is) in love with Willow and it really wasn't the same as using a mind-control thing to alter someone's behaviour and make them sleep with someone who they never would have otherwise. Willow did the wrong thing but I can't see it as the same thing. IP: LoggedgrifterCool Monster Fighter I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 18:18 I am sorry I did not make it clear enough what I meant above, so here goes.I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
by AutumnT » Mon Feb 04, 2002 6:33 pm
But thank you for letting us know your take on the episode. I am really looking forward to an actual scene between Willow and Tara again that doesn't involve one of them storming off.
by Scout » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:06 pm
by Rally » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:08 pm
quote:
Originally posted by Warduke:
...now with the look W/T have on their faces when they talk about Buffy, there is NO doubt what they’re really talking about here, and that is missing each other, so Willow was really saying that she misses Tara and Tara was saying that she missed her too, it was sooo sweet. They start to walk pass each other and Tara turns around and says "I’m glad you’re doing better." She then gave her a big half smile (CUTE!!!) and then left, Willow just watched her go, looking a little sad.
*sigh* 24 more hours to go, my bitterness is melting away.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
by The Rose » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:15 pm
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
by xita » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:25 pm
by Legs » Mon Feb 04, 2002 7:56 pm
Once again, thanks SO much for all eps uploaders out there! If it wasn't for you, I'd still be waiting for the season premiere here in Brazil. Oh! And I'd have killed my brother for laughing at my dispair!
:-** & [ ]s
Legs
Edited because of d*mn typos!
[This message has been edited by Legs (edited February 04, 2002).]
by The Rose » Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:11 pm
------------------
Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.
Tara: Willow, I got so lost.
Willow: I found you. I will always find you.
Tara: Nobody messes with my girl!
by Hugin » Mon Feb 04, 2002 9:25 pm
-len
by AutumnT » Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:08 pm
I think I just like hearing the word lesbian on prime time TV.
------------------
Autumn
I'm just taking stuff and not paying for it. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?
by tommo » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:40 am
This W/T scene sounds wonderful Brian. Thank you thank you thank you...
And now the ritual waiting begins.
------------------
"Bitter, party of one. Bitter, party of one." she muttered... ~ Four Months After by Capt. Murdock
by Eyes Without A Face » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:25 am
------------------
Wallpapers
Illegitimi non carborundum!
by La » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:36 am
oh, sorry, for a second there I thought I was back in the word-association thread
I second that appreciating for episode uploaders, Legs, I'm really looking forward to being able to see this episode. I'm glad we're back on a somewhat regular schedule - such long breaks between episodes were driving me a bit batty!
------------------
~la
by Rally » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:43 am
What else can you say, so great to have Tara back. I liked the look on Xander's face when W/T ran into each other outside the shop. Tara with a bit of her stutter back.
Interesting bickering with the Troika. Buffy really guilting herself like mad and finally starting to grow up a bit.
Hopefully this will be the first of a month of strong episodes.
------------------
"With Willow, it's like she's got this... whole new thing in her life but she's still Willow so I can always figure her out. But Tara, I just know she likes Willow and she already has one of those."
by Mara » Tue Feb 05, 2002 8:57 am
*jumps arround in a very silly way*
by Ham » Tue Feb 05, 2002 11:17 am
The B/S Bronze thing made me do a classic Mr. Burns shudder, just horrible to watch. I liked the scene where Buffy goes to his door. There was sadness there but also so much hopelessness.
I liked the way Buffy's supposed 'killing' was shot, at that moment I turned to my friend and said how very Twin Peaks it felt. Imagine my joy when Buffy talks of how time, "went all David Lynch". even her dream was very Lynchian.
Warren was just disturbing and I can see Andrew almost going the same way. At least Jonathan was showing some signs of remorse.
The end is indescribable, no words are fair for how it made me feel. Buffy's need to be hated for what she does, her hatred of herself is just heart wrenching. I think Tara was the perfect one to tell and is the only one who can help Buffy pull herself up out of this hole she's in.
Tara just simply rocks, roll on next ep, this one was a serious 10/10.
by Web Warlock » Tue Feb 05, 2002 12:03 pm
But if they are using them as a metaphor for not growing up, then it is working. So far it looks like Johnathon will be the one to break ranks.
The B/S thing also has taken some wierd bends, but that is also to be expected.
Ok on to the good stuff. The Tara seens were great! It is so obvious that they miss each other. I have to admit to being a bit taken aback that Tara thought the reson Buffy was talking to her was about Willow going bad again. But other than that things are looking good.
Just watched "Angel". Remind me, which one was supposed to be the darker of the two shows?
Warlock.
------------------
Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
--
Tom Servo: Oh my God. They killed Black Leaf!
Crow: You bastards!
- MST3k: Dark Dungeons
by Magikcat » Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:51 pm
by grifter » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:37 pm
First off, of course, I´m overjoyed at having Tara back, the way she sat in that chair in the DMP was just adorable, and if there´s a Scoobie who can understand Buffy´s situation it´s her.
S/B´s conversation in the beginning was nice; Spike´s talk in the Bronze was NOT. I can see how he feels that dividing her from her friends is the only way to keep her, but that doesn´t make it right.
Now the Troika is getting really scary. Warren and Andrews´ "we got away with murder - that´s kinda cool" reaction in the end was cold. Angel said something like "taking a life makes you feel like a god" during s3 after Faith killed a man. Add to that their already way-too-big egos and they have some really dangerous potential. They know they can get away with murder now, and I bet they´ll use that power in the future.
I love the way they slowly stumbled into increasingly violent crimes during this season. They started out living the ultimate geek-dream and have since gone from being little nerds with too much power to being murderers. Robbery ("Flooded", "Tabula Rasa" (?)) - assisting murder ("Life Serial") - attempted murder ("Gone") - attempted rape and finally murder ("Dead Things"). Not good.
Jonathan seems to be breaking away though. He always was the "softie" of the three and we know he can be a "good" guy. He´ll probably have enough of this soon.
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
All in all, I loved the episode (ok, I love every single one, but this was really fantastic), and the Troika are increasingly impressive villains. I know they´re not the "Big Bad(´s)", but from all of Buffy´s arch-nemeseses I kind of enjoy them the most, probably because that could be me. I mean, 1000-year old vampire? Naw. Big giant snake-demon? Not really. But nerd with too much imagination? That´s me folks; the sad thing is just that I´m not as talented as these guys. ;(
by Warduke » Tue Feb 05, 2002 3:54 pm
quote:
Originally posted by grifter:
Please don´t hate me for stating this, but here´s something else that I noticed: Warren´s way of getting back his girlfriend with his techno-magic inhibitor-gadget is similiar to Willow´s getting Tara back with the forget-spells. Though Willow didn´t try to rape Tara and, in the end, hit her head with a champagne bottle...it´s the same way of thinking, only that Warren is way more ruthless.
It’s not similar at all, Warren was trying to get his ex-gf to be a sex slave, for him and his friends. Willow’s forget spell was not to get Tara back or make her a sex slave, they were still together at the time, it was to make her forget the fight they had over magic, and although I am NOT condoning what Willow did, it is completely different than what Warren did, as bad as what Willow did, what Warren did is pure and simple rape, which is unforgivable and truly evil. [This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Warduke (edited February 05, 2002).]
IP: Loggedmiss_spanglesCool Monster Fighter IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 18:05 yeah, i would have to agree that you're being very harsh on Willow. Afterall, Tara was (and is) in love with Willow and it really wasn't the same as using a mind-control thing to alter someone's behaviour and make them sleep with someone who they never would have otherwise. Willow did the wrong thing but I can't see it as the same thing. IP: LoggedgrifterCool Monster Fighter I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
IP: Logged
posted February 05, 2002 18:18 I am sorry I did not make it clear enough what I meant above, so here goes.I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
by miss_spangles » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:05 pm
by grifter » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:18 pm
I did not try to compare the mindset, actions and outcomes of Willow´s and Warren´s acts. I merely tried to compare the line of thinking: "I don´t want to deal with the reality of relationships, so I use magic (or techno-magic) to get what I want". I am very sorry that I did not make this clear enough!
by mariacomet » Tue Feb 05, 2002 4:40 pm
I noticed the parrell as well. It's not a perfect one. What Warren was GOING to do was have a slave to service his every need. Which is not exactly what Willow was going for.
But I am going to a point to a couple things Tara said, "You're changing things now to your liking, INCLUDING me."
and... "But YOU don't get to decide what's best for us."
Willow circumvented Tara's will. It was more of a theft, a Violation then a rape or attempted rape. Willow took away a piece of a big picture, she did not try and build the entire picture to her liking.
However Willow was slowly beginning to go down a very dark path. I believe that as much as Warren is capable, he loved his ex. It was clearly not JUST about sex to him. He wanted her back, he thought they should be together.
Willow wanted her and Tara not to fight. and I believe, those this has not been spoken, that Willow was afraid of the changes in their relationship. She certainly shot down STRONGTARA pretty hard. The core of this, I think is that she was afraid of eventually losing Tara. She was using magic, in my humble opinion to try and have her cake and eat it too.
Yes, Warren's motivation is much more twisted and evil. I think this might be a case of 'there but for the grace of Carwrecks and random demons goes Willow.'
I can see the idea of both Warren and Willow coming to the same fork in the road and Warren choosing one way and Willow choosing another.
I think Warren desperately needed Katrina's acceptance and love. I think Willow feels a lot of this need. But in the long run, Willow is stronger than the sum of what she wants. She has deeper convictions and she is willing to work hard.
Warren is not.
by wiltar » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:24 pm
With the whole I-killed-her-stuff I got a flashback to season 3, when Faith accidentally killed Finch. Of course, Buffy didn't kill the girl, but still. It almost seemed like Spike and Faith switched places...Spike did the same as Faith did. Telling Buffy how one life is nothing in comparisation to all the lives she saved already, and dumping the body so no one would find it (which of course happens, just like it did with Faith)
And Dawn...I'm kinda worried about her, and I can't wait to see how that all is gonna progress. First of all: Will the gang find out about the stealing from earlier on this season, and second: How are Buffy and Dawn gonna get through this together. I had a flash back here as well..Remember how Dawn told Buffy how she didn't care and how she was avoiding her after their mom died? She was blaming Buffy again for the same things.
I really can't wait to see the rest of this season!!!!
Patricia
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"What are they looking at?"
"The hotness of you, doofus!"
by miss_spangles » Tue Feb 05, 2002 5:41 pm
by Scoobiedoo » Tue Feb 05, 2002 6:53 pm
Oh... and Tara's beautiful smiling face of course! Made my day.... especially that cute little grin she gave to Gina at the Doublemeat Palace.
The only thing that kinda felt odd to me was how the third act just seemed to wrap itself up really quickly without Buffy doing much... just got a first name and there you go! Case closed! But that was kinda minor... and was definately made better by the brilliant acting of SMG and AB in the last scene. Make me cry why don't ya?
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"FINE! I'll go to the pool and you can go to the museum of pools!"
by spottiedottie » Tue Feb 05, 2002 7:03 pm
That last scene with Buffy and Tara, that was a very amazing and emotional scene.
Go Amber!
LONG LIVE OUR GODDESS TARA!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by spottiedottie (edited February 05, 2002).]
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