Restless - Revisted ... again

[xita]

We used to have several threads (deletion bug hit) and I know this keeps coming up and what with what's coming I thought I'd make a new one, plus we got a question that would fit here

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"Everthing's just turning out so dark..."
"No, it's okay. Lost is good. Willow and I always know how to find each other!"

[Extra_Flamey_Girl*]

Hey...
I'm new here....just a gal from Brazil...
so, i need help...
Anyone could tell me what is written in Tara's back in Restless ?

[KittyKo*]

Bem vinda Extra_Flamey_Girl.

Probably one of our fantastico moderators will redirect you to the board's introduction thread. But until then...
The text Willow painted on Tara's back is part of a poem in greek written by Sappho.
Here's the poem:

"On the throne of many hues, Immortal Aphrodite,
child of Zeus, weaving wiles - I beg you
not to subdue my spirit, Queen,
with pain or sorrow

but come - if ever before
having heard my voice from far away
you listened, and leaving your father's
golden home you came

in your chariot yoked with swift, lovely
sparrows bringing you over the dark earth
thick-feathered wings swirling down
from the sky through mid-air

arriving quickly - you, Blessed One,
with a smile on your unaging face
asking again what have I suffered
and why am I calling again

and in my wild heart what did I most wish
to happen to me: "Again whom must I persuade
back into the harness of your love?
Sappho, who wrongs you?

For if she flees, soon she'll pursue,
she doesn't accept gifts, but she'll give,
if not now loving, soon she'll love
even against her will."

Come to me now again, release me from
this pain, everything my spirit longs
to have fulfilled, fulfill, and you
be my ally. "

Check out the FAQ if you have any questions on how the board works. And once again, welcome to the board.

[Under Her Spell]

Sappho was also (probably) a lesbian. The Victorians tried to straighten her up and invented a story where she killed herself over a man, but that was nonsense.

The poem seems to me to relate to what's happening in Season 6, if you take Willow to be Sappho and Tara to be Aphrodite, the Blessed One. "Come to me now again, release me from this pain, everything my spirit longs
to have fulfilled, fulfill, and you
be my ally" could be Willow's call to Tara to take her back. Just a thought.

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I haven't had sex... I'm a nice girl from Alabama who lives with her mom.
-Amber Benson

Willer: ah jest kinda like havin' sumpin thass jest yo' know, mine?
Taree: ah do... ah'm, yo' know...
Willer: Whut in tarnation?
Taree: Yourn...

Slain by Buffy ¦ Buffy Fan Art

[Verbena]

Just a thought ? Mmmmh... I don't know if you're right or wrong, and I must say I don't give a damn, coz' I like your thought. Very nice...

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"Did anybody order an Apocalypse...?"

[xita]

Well for people who don't believe that the addiction storyline was coming, there's the whole catnip thing in Yoko Factor, you have a catnip problem. Also, in Restless it is clear, though for along time I didn't think it would come to pass, that Willow would have to go through something that Tara couldn't help her with. Not only that in the end she would have to face her inner geek and all the things she hated about herself. After restless I wondered what Willow could go through that Tara couldn't help her with. We got our answer didn't we? Also, I wonder how that whole play stuff works with what we know now.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited February 19, 2002).]

[mucifer]

the whole play thing seemed to be the identity crisis she's having. is she really cool now or is she still a geek . i think she's both and it's so cute. but, willow has a hard time dealing with it.

[Still Waters Run Deep]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
I wonder how that whole play stuff works with what we know now.

---

Those who dismissed Restless as mere end-of-season filler must be choking on their cocoa by now.

I'd like to see how the others storylines pan out - Giles, Buffy, Xander. Much of this came about in S5 but I bet there's plenty of left-overs to play with.

Tara and Anya were the only scoobies who were'nt at the Initiative [Primeaval]. Anya appears in Giles' dream and in Xanders dream, but does little to progress things [a bad joke, and gesturing emphatically].

Tara on the other hand, appears to Willow in the play[naturally enough] appears with Willow in Xanders dream [also naturally enough, he's a guy with eyes ], but Tara also appears as the spirit guide / spokesperson for the first Slayer which is a much bigger deal. [I still shiver at that approach shot of her in the desert, they should have lingered over that shot IMO]

I've said it before, and I make no apology for saying it again, there's still a lot more to Tara than we know, otherwis why put her in such an important scene?

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Still Waters Run Deep

*Hands! Hands in new places!*

[This message has been edited by Still Waters Run Deep (edited February 19, 2002).]quote:

[Web Warlock]

Absolutely SWRD,

First thing first about Restless.
Damn if Tara/Amber didn't look great in this!

I think now it is very obvious that this was about season 6. There was spirit-guide Tara saying "Be back before Dawn", which of course we know is a season 5 spoiler, of course the "You think you know what you are" speech, and the refernce to season 3's 730; Buffy's very own death clock.

But the Willow scenes are all 6th season. I also wondered what it was that Tara could not help Willow with. Now we know.
One line seems to stick out though for me. Tara's true-name.
Willow asks Tara about her true-name. Now we all know about the aborted Tara is a demon, Tara is a wood sprite, story line and this might be a ref to that. But, this is comming from Willow's dream. What is it that Willow knows about Tara that no one else does? More on that later...

Xander's dream. I also think this points to season 6. Everyone else is moving ahead. The upcomming battle with parents, Anya wanting to get back into vengance. These could all point to things that seem to be brewing. Buffy calling him "big brother" is also very telling. He has no chance with her anymore. Nor Willow, who has Tara, nor Giles who has Randy, I mean Spike.
BTW. Synder and Xander in the 'Apocylspe Now' scene. God I laughed so hard. Shot Mt. Dew out of my nose when I first saw that! Brilliant.

Giles. Obvious he feels that it is time to move on. But we got that in Season 5 as well.

Now here is a bit I want to throw at you. Tara was not there in the Summers' home, but she was in the dreams (save for Giles), what if Tara was actually in the dreams herself. That is she was there, much like everyone else was, not a guide, not an image. This would mean that Tara is very powerful, but also point to her as the stablizing effect she has on the group. She was not in Giles' dream, because she is due to replace him.
Maybe I have been reading too many Lisa fics.

Cheese man. That means nothing. Because sometime dreams don't make any sense.

Of course there was nothing on the whole Buffy-Spike boink fest. Nothing on Xander and Anya's wedding.

I agree with Xita on this, the magical addiction storyline was a primary one, not one that was brought in to replace another story. I personally am just groing a little tired with it.

Restless. Easily one of the best eps.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"What the hell is your problem?" - Ozzy Osbourne to me, Feb. 1996

[CaptMurdock]

The image that sticks with me from Restless (aside, of course, from naked-Tara-back-painting and Hooker!Willow and Hooker!Tara in the ice cream truck...yowza!) is Xander's recurring appearance in his basement apartment, staring up to the door at the top of the basement stairs, murmuring "That's not the way out." To me, this may foreshadow the postponement of the wedding -- he may realize that marrying Anya is not the right thing to do regardless of how much he loves her. He needs to do marry her when it's not just an escape from his dreary life, leading toward alcoholism and ending in a mattress fire.

We've all figured out that the image of Nerd!Willow giving her book report represents her self-loathing and her wish to get away from the geek image. But the play? Aside from a general "you're just putting on a show for people," I really don't know what it means.

Amazing episode, overall.

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"How's that cramp doing, Spike? Why dontcha put some ice on it?"

[Web Warlock]

See I flet Xander looking up the stairs represented his family more than his marriage. "That is not the way out" seems more of a self-referential statement. He is saying to himself he will not become like his family. Especially him telling his father "he would not understand".

Warlock

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"What the hell is your problem?" - Ozzy Osbourne to me, Feb. 1996

[Shaniezak]

More than that, I thought it was significant that Xander kept ending up in the basement--and in a building, you can't get any lower than that. More than merely his family or his life, the basement, I really think, represents Xander's fears that he's always going to be the average or below-average guy. That was partially addressed in season 5's "The Replacement," when he was genuinely surprised to see that there were aspects of him that really had it together.

But I do think that part of Xander is just waiting for the other shoe to drop--that he feels like he's lucked out for a while, but eventually he's going to (just like in his dream) end right back up in the basement. And right now he's got it pretty good--a fiancee, his friends, a good job. It's just a matter of wondering when he'll turn the corner and find himself in the basement again.

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"And if there is a way to find you, I will find you . . . but threads that are golden don't break easily . . ." -- Tori Amos

"Love is lightning, love is ice; it only strikes the lucky twice--once so you will know the price, and once for crazy faith . . ." -- Alison Krauss and Union Station

[AutumnT]

Ah I love a great discussion about this episode. Easily one of my favorites and One I see new things in every single time I watch it.

What I find most interesting of the portrayl or Tara in it is that she is so much closer to the Tara we know now rather than the one we saw at the time - she's a strong and guiding presence for both Willow and Buffy - just as she is now.

I was amazed to see that some folks don't consider this a season finale. As if the resolution to a big bad storyline is more important than this season ender. Apocalypse, we've all been there. This episode was about what's to come. Simply brilliant.

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Autumn

I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.

[mucifer]

i really love the tarathespiritguide forshadowing. i dont know if they will do subtextual otherworld powery stuff with that. it really doesnt matter. the fact of the matter is that buffy and tara's friendship progression is great. they started out with buffy being uncomfortable around tara where she didnt seem to really want to go to her bday party. then her mother dies and tara is the one who is the most there for her emotionally. and from personal experience i can say that spending time with someone else who has felt a similar loss can be amazingly helpful. i still believe (or hope that the writing will go in the direction of) buffys grief over her mother being connected strongly with her self hating behavior and that tara can help with some of this mess.

[katydid]

You all are getting really deep into this. I don't make much conclusions from Restless on my own...I tend to take a bit from one person and other bits from other people, and mesh it into what I believe is the truth. You all have excellent points...and they really make me think. I will have to go back and watch Restless again with all this in mind. The dream sequence with Willow and Tara is the one that intrigues me the most. There is so much hidden in that sequence.

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"She practically has 'genuine molded plastic' stamped on her ass.

[sparkles]

I totally agree about Tara being some kind of guide to the scoobies- particularly Buffy.

She has already taken the mantle of that role partially on in this season. She has helped Buffy's emotional growth.

In respect of Restless when she says "you think you know, what's to come...you haven't even begun" I think this is a reference to her death, but importantly it is a reference to her re-birth. She is still adjusting, now, to beginning again. In the world of Joss I figure that there is something even bigger coming than her death was. And, back to the point; it's Tara who tells her that: Tara who knows that.

Joss wrote this episode and for all his absenteeism this season, Buffy's his baby. (Now, that came out weird.) He knows exactly what's going on and what's going to happen. Tara's role was far too integral and significant in that episode to ignore. It's only now that she seems to be stepping into that kind of guide role, we can't have seen the fallout from all that was implied yet. I just don't buy that that is it for "Guidey Tara" (and i don't mean woggles). Not from Joss. I can only see Tara's role increasing as the show reaches its denouement.

Finally, that whole theory about the Magicks addiction being a filler. Puuurrrlease! In another Joss ep Dopplegangland the groundwork is definitely being laid.

Edited to clear up a wooly sentence.

And yet another wooly one. Plus bad grammar.

[This message has been edited by sparkles (edited February 19, 2002).]

[This message has been edited by sparkles (edited February 19, 2002).]

[Dazey]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
One line seems to stick out though for me. Tara's true-name.
Willow asks Tara about her true-name.

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And Tara says, "Oh, you know that." I don't think there's anything else to be made of that. OTOH, we still don't know MKF's true name....

quote:

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Tara was not there in the Summers' home, but...what if Tara was actually in the dreams herself.

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Yet Buffy says to her, "You're not in my dream." Interesting.

And all this talk about Tara as a guide, particularly for Buffy...I've wondered a lot about that. Since "Restless" first aired, really. Wondered if she couldn't have been sent by the PTB or something (not in any way that she is aware of). Tried to make something of the fact that Tara adopted MKF, who represented the Slayer (in general) in "Restless", and that Tara appeared in the desert as a guide to Buffy in "Restless" and then a cougar (a bigger cat) appeared in the desert as Buffy's guide in "Intervention" (Buffy is a cat but Tara is a bigger [more spiritually advanced] cat?), and that brain-sucked Tara in TL recognizes Buffy as a cat (sees her and says "They kill mice") and then babbles about having "told the cats" (spoken to them, given them guidance?), and so on...and it's starting to seem as though that could be coming to fruition now, with Tara as Buffy's confessor, confidante, and friend.

But, I dunno. Maybe we think too much. Maybe Tara is just Tara, a wise and compassionate woman.

Which is just fine by me.

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"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."quote:quote:

[Under Her Spell]

Just a thought - Miss Kitty was a few months old at the end of Season Four, and now a year and a half later she must be cat, right? I'm not really up on kitty biology, but maybe now they'll have to call her Miss Pussy Fantastico.

Or perhaps not.

[xita]

I am on the side of Tara is just Tara. Tara's most obvious strength (perhaps mystical) is her intuition. She's very keen on people and what they are feeling.

[Under Her Spell]

I'd agree that Tara does have natural intuition and a kind of magic sixth sense - I think because she's been practicing magic for so long, she sees things Willow misses.

I'm not really into with the idea that she has a hidden purpose - I think the point of 'Family' and her role in 'The Body' is that we were able to really get to know her character fully. I'm pretty certain the 'real name' thing was just a reference to 'Family', and that it's now been resolved.

[Warduke]

I agree with xita and UHS, I think Tara is just Tara and there isn't anything else "hidden" about her.

[Legs]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dazey:
Yet Buffy says to her, "You're not in my dream." Interesting.

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I have been wondering A LOT about this lately. The fact that Buffy went to Tara and not Willow to tell about her Spike problems, really made me go back to Restless and reasure in my mind that Tara is definitely some kind of guide for Buffy. Even though she was not on Buffy dream, she was still there and speaking for the 1st Slayer. This can't just be because she's a balanced person etc. Not in my opinion anyway.

quote:

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and that brain-sucked Tara in TL recognizes Buffy as a cat (sees her and says "They kill mice") and then babbles about having "told the cats" (spoken to them, given them guidance?)

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I knew there was something there... I just didn't remember the whole cat thing in the other episode. The cat thing makes more sense to me now. I don't think Tara was just babbling while in "suck brain mode". Actually I think what Glory did was open her mind in such a way that she could see things more clearly but it was way too much for a human to take, so it seemed to me like she had no way of making people understand her.

I may be tripping here, but my trip is making total sense! lol

:-** & [ ]s
Legs

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Things doesn't exist merely because they're stablished. Look at Santa's example: we know what he looks like, what he does, where he lives... we can even name his deers. Unfortunately, it doesn't prove his existence.quote:quote:

[Owl]

okay...

so, i'm poetry gal, and i couldn't help but jump in the proverbial hot tub here, albeit so late that the water seems quite cool on the Sapphic poem issue...brr. here goes... i have read that the stanza used in "restless" is indeed from "Artfully Adorned Aphrodite..." (See post from Kittyko above. i have a diff. translation (j. powell))
right. so, i read somewhere that the one used was the second to last...

If she flees you now, she will soon pursue you;
If she won't accept what you give, she'll give it;
If she doesn't love you, she'll love you soon now, even unwilling.

I could be Entirely off on this. S'just what i read somewhere. If this is it, though... it sounds kinda icky. er... ominous anyhow. I must admit that that last stanza makes a lot of sense and is sort of nicer if not for the fact that it reminds me of "Something Blue".

Okay. so that was more than two cents. Shutting up now.
Ooh. but check out the nifty father reference in stanza 2.....

Does anybody know for sure?

[lahabiel]

quote:

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Originally posted by Web Warlock:
One line seems to stick out though for me. Tara's true-name.
Willow asks Tara about her true-name.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dazey:
And Tara says, "Oh, you know that." I don't think there's anything else to be made of that.

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OK ... Jeffe the Occultist speaks up now. Not that I claim to have any idea what the Almighty Joss has in store for us ... but there is a magickal significance to "knowing a true name."

In many mythos, to know a being's "true name" can give one tremendous power over it. The most commonly known instance, because it's a popular children's fairy tale, is the story of Rumplestiltskin, over whom control is gained upon guessing his name.

The line about Willow knowing Tara's name, in this interpretation, alludes to something that has happened in Season 6 -- her multiple erasings of memories from Tara's mind. So I'm guessing this little tidbit from Restless has already come to pass.

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Check out my story
"banish.exe"
on the site www.extraflamey.com for a W/T treat!
--Jeffequote:quote:

[wiccie]

RE: the Sappho poem - I believe it translates as the first and a half stanzas. If one reads Syrillic or Greek, the name "Aphrodite" is clear, which matches the first part of the this when "Restless" first aired.

RE: "Tara's true name" - good points about the magical/occult meanings, BUT Joss et al have stated they only use "real" magical definitions occasionally and most of their mythology is made up - accurate to real Wicca or not - to best fit the story.

IMO, that line refers to Tara being a normal human (as was revealed in S5 "Family") - not a demon or otherwise mystical creature, which was the prevailing belief at the time "Restless" aired.

[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited February 20, 2002).]

[Shaniezak]

Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if both meanings were implied at least to some degree, wiccie. I'd be surprised if Joss weren't familiar with the concept of knowing someone's true name.

[Web Warlock]

Hmmm.

On to the True name debate again.

I agree with Xita, Tara is Tara. But that does not mean she isn't holding something back.

The significance of this line to me plays out one of two ways.

1. This is refering to the abort Tara-is-somethingelse story line. Which begs the question, how does Willow know then, but not in Family?

or

2. Tara is somethingelse, but still human. Maybe very powerful (not say Lisaof9 power! ). She is actually in Willow's and Buffy's dreams, guiding them. Maybe even guiding Xander. Of course the Tara elements in his dream only proves he has eyes.

It might be there are still other shoes to drop from this one.

Warlock.

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Web Warlock
web.warlock@attbi.com webwarlock@planetadnd.com
Author, the Netbooks of Witches and Warlocks
The Other Side: http://www.xtreme-gaming.com/theotherside/
Shadow Earth Games: http://www.rpghost.com/WebWarlock/
The FanCC: http://www.enworld.org/fancc/
--
"What the hell is your problem?" - Ozzy Osbourne to me, Feb. 1996

[Zahir]

I think Tara does indeed have a secret source of fundamental power, and that its tied up with who she really is.

Her power is that she is Tara. Wise. Good. Strong. No metaphors, just character.

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"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

[Moonchild]

I think the "true name" part of Restless had to do with the later episode about Tara's family. I think it was a reference to demons, and later on we find out that Tara's father is trying to convince her that she is a demon. I believe in Catholic exorcisms of demons, the priest has to ask the demon to state its name (and the demon is compelled to do so if the priest asks in Jesus' name), and this gives the priest power over the demon. This is just my opinion and comes from what I have read about demonology, and does not necessarily match up with all sections of the Catholic faith, etc., so please don't think I am speaking for all Catholics or anything like that, because I'm not.

[Dazey]

Again, those of you who are discussing the true name thing and whether it meant that Tara was/is hiding something don't seem to be addressing the fact that when Willow asks if Tara has told her her real name, Tara says "Oh, you know that." "That" meaning Tara's real name. So how is she hiding anything this way, then or now?

I used to really want Tara to be some sort of guide sent by whoever to help Buffy, because I thought it would give her a clear purpose on the show, make her "essential"...and shut the mouths of those who kept saying she wasn't. Much like Willow, I wanted a supernatural, and hence easy, solution. What we got was much harder, but ultimately much better: over the course of the last season and a half, Tara--plain old human Tara, with a modicum of witchy power and a bucketload of wisdom, kindness, and quiet strength--has slowly, almost imperceptibly, become the emotional center of the Scoobies. Without them, or many of the fans, realizing it, she has become essential. And the fact that it was done the slow and difficult way makes it infinitely more important, and real.

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"We are in the love. We are...the in love ones. Lesbian, in love with merry-type."