An OT anecdote that shows once again why W/T are so cool...

[BBOvenGuy]

At our between-services breakfast break this morning, I was listening to a lesbian woman in my choir tell a story about her daughter, who is about 4 or 5, I think. The little girl had met another little girl who is the daughter of another lesbian couple, and they had become fast friends. In the way children around that age commonly do, the little girl was going around saying she was going to marry her friend. She then had to stop, however, and ask if it was okay for two girls to get married.

"Well," said the woman from my choir, "do you have two mommies?" "Yes." "Does she have two mommies?" "Yes... OH!"

That, folks, is how much it took to explain to the daughter of a lesbian couple that it was okay to marry a daughter of another lesbian couple. My choir friend thinks the reason why it was such a difficult concept to grasp is because on television all children ever see is heterosexual couples. TV has so saturated this little girl's world view that she has to ask if something is okay even when it's staring her right in the face.

And that's why Willow and Tara are so cool. There's nothing else like them. A normal couple, both of whom just happen to be women. Even if they have their troubles, which it looks like they will, they will have normal troubles (okay, as normal as you can get when magic is involved) and will work through them the way a normal couple does. Is there anything else on TV that's anything like our girls? If so, I haven't seen it.

Just thought I'd share.

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Remember the Kitten Board Mantra: "Joss is nuts about Tara, Willow/Tara and Amber!"

To hope is to risk frustration. Therefore, make up your mind to risk frustration. Do not be one of those who, rather than risk failure, never attempts anything. - Thomas Merton

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Thanks for sharing, Bob. However, I thought that little girl was surprisingly bright. Then again, most children are. They have no qualms, no prejudices, no fear unless their parents pass those things on to them. I think it was the cutest thing that this little girl was happily chirping along about how she was going to marry her best friend. She didn't even stop to think about what people would say. However, I definitely agree that W/T is the breath of fresh air that is so sorely needed. Thanks again!

Toni

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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

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That is very cool, we've always said that W+T are totally unique and such wonderful role models.

One of my work colleagues loves BtVS but she had a bit of a problem with W+T at the beginning and if I'm honest I think she had a problem with lesbian relationships in general, although she never said so, but when I heard what was going to happen in TL I was talking about it with her and she was like 'Oh that's awful, Willow will be devastated' I was so happy, not just because she was genuinely upset about it, but because to her they were now just as real a couple as Angel + Buffy or Xander + Anya, which I think was a huge step for her given her attitude before.

That has got to be testament to Aly + Amber's amazing chemistry and the awesome team of writers who have portrayed them as Bob says, a normal couple with normal hangups and normal problems.

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I am in thunderous agreement, oh glittering, glistening Glorificus! : Jinx in Tough Love

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quote:

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Originally posted by minion:
...when I heard what was going to happen in TL I was talking about it with her and she was like 'Oh that's awful, Willow will be devastated'

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now i feel like and idiot. my apologies to minion and anyone else upset by my remarks, and for muddying up the thread. when i read the line above from the post i didn't realize TL stood for 'tough love' assuming that "was going to happen" meant something that hadn't happened yet.

[This message has been edited by fell (edited October 29, 2001).]

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Ummmm... excuse me, but I don't see anything in minion's post that would be considered "spoilery" by board rules. "TL" refers to "Tough Love," which has already been broadcast in the US, Canada and the UK. That makes it fair game.

May [b:91870da35c]I[/b:91870da35c] ask that we check our facts before muddying threads that were intended to be cheerful with unrelated ranting?

[This message has been edited by BBOvenGuy (edited October 29, 2001).]

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I am sorry you feel that way but I think we are pretty strict about spoilers unlike other boards.

I don't see any spoilers in Minion's post. TL means tough love and that's season 5. Also, spoilers are spoilers till they air in America at which point they become non-spoilers. If you are in another country and this doesn't work for you, you probably should avoid the board for a few months.

If you think that there is a thread that is breaking our established rules about spoilers you need to mail one of the moderators. I have not had a complaint about spoilers out of place and neither have any of the moderators. If we are not aware of a problem, we can't fix it.

Spoilers shall remain in spoiler threads, of which there are many but they are clearly labeled as spoiler threads.

Any information about an episode before it airs in the United States is a spoiler. After it airs it will not be considered a spoiler and it can be posted everywhere. Any problems or issues with this, please feel free to e-mail me.

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Apparently the big put-down in middle school these days is to say "you're so gay". I was picking up the kids from school Friday when one of my youngest daughter's clasmates said that to her. Her response was "You mean like Willow and Tara? Thanks!" Nothing but silence from the other kid. Both daughters say they use that line all the time and no one has had a comeback to it yet.

I would like to go on record as saying: I Have the Greatest Kids in the World(tm).

S

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"Don't warn the tadpoles!"

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Salix, I agree - you have two very cool kids! What a great comeback and what a great testament to the wonderful example W/T provide every week. Nothing else like them, that's for sure!

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Thats a great story Bob, But I would council that the girsl wait until at least 7th grade for that kind of commitment.

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quote:

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Originally posted by drlloyd11:
Thats a great story Bob, But I would council that the girsl wait until at least 7th grade for that kind of commitment.

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Oh relaaax, Doc. Kids say things like this all the time. Kids with Het parents say that they want to marry their guy friends all the time. They're kids and I doubt that they're all [i:d714d68f84]that[/i:d714d68f84] serious. I'd leave off the counseling. They're too young for it and the situation is not serious enough to warrant overreaction. At least, that is MHO. I wanted to marry this guy that was a friend of mine when we were 11. I got over that real quick since I am so very obviously gay as stick See? Nothing to worry about.

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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

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I think DrLloyd was joking Kieli. If I followed through on my plans back then, I'd be an astronomer married to my (thirty years my senior) librarian, living on the South Pole.

-len

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Ahhhh joking! I see....my apologies, Doc. I thought you were actually serious.

Len: ACK! South Pole!?? Oh well, I really can't talk. I was all set to move to Ontario to be near this guy I [i:edeed3db7d]thought[/i:edeed3db7d] I loved. Good thing I didn't. He was a cad, a flirt and a straight up cheat. Besides, I was more attracted to my best friend anyway....but she never got a clue. Still hasn't, the silly child.
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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

[This message has been edited by Kieli (edited October 29, 2001).]

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Hey, the South Pole is cool..at the time I figured living at one of the poles would be cool, but in my childlike factiod obsessed way, the fact that Antartica is a real continent, whereas the North pole is just ice, seemed important to me...you could make this Fortress of Solitude thing, and...okay, I was a weird child.

-len

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quote:

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Originally posted by Salix:
Apparently the big put-down in middle school these days is to say "you're so gay". I was picking up the kids from school Friday when one of my youngest daughter's clasmates said that to her. Her response was "You mean like Willow and Tara? Thanks!" Nothing but silence from the other kid. Both daughters say they use that line all the time and no one has had a comeback to it yet.

I would like to go on record as saying: I Have the Greatest Kids in the World(tm).

S

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Whoa! You DO have the greatest kids in the world. Heehee. That is SO awesome.

As for playground marriage, I myself was married twice in grammar school, to the same person. To a boy, of all oddities- my childhood sweetheart. I was going through a heterosexual phase.

It was funny, though- the first wedding took place in the 1st grade, Our friend Nick brought a Bible and everything. That was my first kiss- and lemme tell ya, going in for the kill behind the privacy screen of upheld arms trailing denim jackets with your eyes closed leads to accidental nose kissage.

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"That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!"

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Hey no wierdness! The Fortress of Solitude is a very cool (*ahem* no pun intended) thing. I can't think of a time my brother and I didn't want to be Superman or Shazam (oh now that REALLY dates be...i bet very few people here remember that whole Saturday special with Shazam, Space Academy and the Kids Super Power Hour....ok back to the old folks home for me ) It's surprising the things we wanted to do as kids. The good thing is, we can look back on it now, have a chuckle and wonder what we were thinking! *LOL*

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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

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Oh Kieli...Shazam...Isis....Space Academy...Ark 2..Super Seven...memories...

-len

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Hey Len, wasn't James Doohan on one of those shows at one point? And also Pamelyn Ferdin, aka the original voice of Lucy in the Charlie Brown cartoons?

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She was on Space Academy Robert, he was on the spinoff, Jason of Star Command.

-len

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Oooh I just adore memory lane. Even that hideous Pole Position cartoon! BUt I totally loved the Dungeons and Dragons cartoon. The voices of Adam Rich, Willie Aames, Ralph Malph....how wild was THAT! *cackle* I think I drove my mother crazy running around in a sheet screaming "Oh Mighty Isis!" at the top of my lungs. *G*

What about Thundercats, Star Blazers, Ultra Man, any Sid and Marty Krofts show, Land of the Lost (hated those Sleestaks), Marine Boy, Johnny Sokko and his Flying Robot, Kimba and the White Lion, Tom of Thumb, G-Force (that cartoon where everyone attached to become a giant flying phoenix) and the list goeth on. Ok, so that makes me about....ooohhh 33! *L*
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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

[This message has been edited by Kieli (edited October 29, 2001).]

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Thats a cool story...see i babysit these beings that escaped from the hellmouth(my ex girlfriend angels kids). And Brreanna the oldest who is 5 saw me kissing my Danni once i do believe cause she runs around tauntung

KAT HAS A GIRLFRIEND>>>>KAT HAS A GIRLFRIEND!

Then just lastnight she said to me kat why does mommy have a boyfriend and you have a girlfriend?

Seee it wasnt too long ago she woke upand would crawl into bed with angel and I...before our reltasionship became descade in around january.Ok maybe it was along time ago.

I tried to explain to her using willow and tara cause i have those kids hooked on buffy.
And I was likewella long time ago before you stared watching buffy with me willow had a boyfriend..they broke upans she found a differant kind of love with Tara..you could say its a better love. Then i was like some people in real life, like your mommy and I are attracted to men and women too. Thats why your mommy has a boyfrined for now,and I have a girlfriend.

I still don't think she understood but i tried. All you can do is try.

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WILLOW: We can come by between classes! Usually I use that time to copy over my notes with a sytem of differant colored pens....But it's been pointed out to me that that's you know, insane.

TARA: I said Quirky.

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quote:

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Originally posted by fell:

maybe it's because so many people on this board are spoiled that people just don't think before they write things like what minion posted above. i don't mean to get down on one person's case because this happens all the time, even in topic titles, which makes it almost impossible to stay unspoiled.

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I'm sorry you feel like that Fell, but as has already been eloquently pointed out by Bob + Xita (Thanks Guys!) there was nothing in my post that could be considered spoilery or anything that related to season 6, I would have thought by now that everyone knew that TL meant Tough Love, especially with it being such an important episode for W+T lovers!

I live in the UK so apart from Bargaining 1+2 which I downloaded off the net I have not seen any of S6, I do have an inkling of future events because I've read selected spoilers, but I would never dream of discussing them in a non-spoiler thread, trust me I've been around this board for almost a year now, as have you, although I didn't actually register until June, but I know the rules and am very careful not to break them. I found it a little harsh that you singled me out when all I was doing was actually commenting on how Willow + Tara are responsible for making my colleague accept and appreciate lesbian relationships.

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I am in thunderous agreement, oh glittering, glistening Glorificus! : Jinx in Tough Love

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kieli:
Land of the Lost (hated those Sleestaks)

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*shudder*

If I may quote Anya, thank you very much for those nightmares. Actually, LotL was my all-time favorite Saturday morning show. TV Land was showing it a while back, and I was suprised at how well it's held up--in terms of storytelling, of course, not production values. Those were always cheesy, even by '70s standards. But there was some remarkably sophisticated writing on that show.

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At one point the story editor for "Land of the Lost" was David Gerrold, creator of the tribbles on Star Trek and one of my primary writing influences.

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Bob, he also actually wrote some scripts for the show, didn't he? I'm familiar with his name from the tribble ep of Star Trek, and I seem to remember noting that he was the writer of a LotL ep that particularly impressed me...it dealt very deftly and subtly with the difficulties Holly faced as an adolescent girl without another female around.

*sigh* Holly was one of my early crushes....

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Sorry Dazey *HUGS* Didn't mean to resurrect the childhood scaries *G* I'm actually surprised that the LotL was as good as it was for its time. I was just mentioning some of this stuff to my co-workers and they just kept looking at me blankly. Remember how really cheesy the Wonder Woman stunts were (Not to mention the Bionic Woman/Six Million Dollar Man stuff )?? Talk about "back in the day"! *LOL*

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"Sometimes, we just can't make it on our own. We all need someone to love us, to help remind us that there's good in the world, to keep us from going crazy."

Willow from Dacia's The Dreamer Awakes

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Land of the Lost changed my whole universe. It taught me tragedy. I know it sounds silly, but the world was never the same for me when it was revealed that Enoch (the smart Sleestak who talked and wore clothes) wasn't from the future, but was from the past. That the stupid lumbering Sleestak were all that was left of a fallen people. That tore me up. Seriously.

-len

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Sorry if this is completly off topic but I thought I would share....

Don't know if this should go here but was just listening to 97.1, in Los Angeles, and they reported that on Spin City Denise Richards would be guest starring in a few episodes and a very involed kiss would take place between her and Heather Lockler. More press is taking place for this "event" and that it is being promoted with no air date except for the fact that you shoul toon in during November to see this.

It is interesting that again we see a kiss between two woman being used as a promotional tool for a show. Joss and company need to be congratulated and thanked for showing that a kiss and more importantly a relationship between two woman is not a promotional or sensational tool. It is something very natural that happens during the course of a relationship, any relationship. Well time to get off my soap box not and begin to sing "where do we go from here..."

"When did you know your girlfriend was tinkerbell"

"Nobody messes with my girl"

"I'm a breast gal..."

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You're totally right Sparrow, that is one of the things I've loved most about Willow + Tara's relationship, Joss and co have never used it to sensationalise or promote Buffy, they have always treated it with respect, I think the kiss in TB was a perfect example, I remember Joss replying to question about it and why it wasn't advertised he said something along the lines that as they were virtually living together, it wasn't the first time they'd kissed, I loved Joss for that, the fact that were treated like every other couple on the show!

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I am in thunderous agreement, oh glittering, glistening Glorificus! : Jinx in Tough Love

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quote:

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Originally posted by BBOvenGuy:
At one point the story editor for "Land of the Lost" was David Gerrold, creator of the tribbles on Star Trek and one of my primary writing influences.

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Have you read his [i:913c5bafe4]War Against the Chtorr[/i:913c5bafe4] series? If so--ANY IDEA WHEN HE'S GONNA FINISH THE DAMN THING?!

...sorry, lost it there for a second...

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"O let my name be in the Book of Love.
If it be there, I care not of
That other book Above...
Strike it out! Or write it in anew.
But let it be in the Book of Love!"
--Omar Kyam

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zahir:
Have you read his War Against the Chtorr series? If so--ANY IDEA WHEN HE'S GONNA FINISH THE DAMN THING?!

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Alas, I haven't read any of that series. It's been my observation over the years that David tends to bounce around between projects. David's a regular at the LA Science Fiction Convention (Loscon, which is coming up Thanksgiving weekend) so I've seen him many times, and he always seems to be working on something different. I think his attempts at TV & movie production (I kept hearing about a [i:adbc402044]Star Wolf[/i:adbc402044] TV series for years) get in the way of his novel-writing sometimes.

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