‘My Girl’ – A Detailed Analysis of Willow and Tara's r'ship

[darkmagicwillow]

Garner and Ruth both make some interesting points about the promises of W/T's renewed trust from Family not being fulfilled because of the argument in Tough Love, especially with Willow's sexual orientation never being discussed. Could this problem might result from forgiving too quickly, without a discussion of the issues, or was it just an awkward issue to raise? If Willow doesn't doubt herself but senses Tara's uncertainty, how can she bring it up without making it seem like she does doubt her orientation? Tara faces a similar problem, and as Willow's angry reaction in TL shows, it was an emotional issue for both of them.



xita, I agree that there's a lot of unfulfilled potential for fanfic in TL. I find Willow's fear of being the junior partner particularly interesting because they both have that fear regarding the other, and Tara evinces the same fear in Family as well, telling Willow that she wants to be useful to the Scoobies and keep up with Willow's magical prowess. There's a parallel with the Buffy/Riley dynamic after he loses his Initiative-granted strength.



They love each other so much, but they just don't know how to argue, being too afraid of losing each other. For Willow, it's that she's always had a problem with wanting to avoid confrontations, and she might also rely on Tara to bring things up with her position of Big Knowledge Woman, or be afraid to bring things up to Tara if she does see her as an authority figure that way. With her abusive family, Tara has strong reasons to fear confrontations and rejection by those her lovely, and if this is her first relationship, she hasn't had the experience to develop the skills she needs to argue things out with Willow the right way.





p.s.: GG, I tried to find the "Personality Type" daily thread I started some months ago on both the Kitten and the Daily Thread archive, where we discussed this topic, but I couldn't find it. Xita might have a better idea about where it went.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 6/13/03 1:26 pm

[The Rose24]

daddykat,



I think Tara's "Spaz? You?" comment is her being playful with Willow. I am thinking Tara knows about Willow's "geek" days.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 6/26/03 8:47 pm

[LostWithoutTara]

Wow. lots of really good comments here. I'll be sure to reply to them with some more depth once my brain de-mushifies itself. I've got that horrible information overload thing going on at the moment.



Anyway, I think there was an interesting question raised regarding Tara's relationship past. Obviously, Tara was certain of her sexuality when she met Willow, but what do you think about before? Did she have any romantic relationships before Willow or do you think that her family may have impeded or possibly even forbidden it? I always thought that it would have been really interesting if Tara had an ex who showed up, and the consequent reactions of both Willow and Tara.

[darkmagicwillow]

While I've talked about W/T's communication problems, they actually communicate well compared to the other Scoobies. Xander and Anya don't talk at all and don't even seem to hear each other discuss their doubts and fears in OMWF. Buffy stops talking with Riley when her mom gets sick and she discovers the truth about Dawn, verifying Riley's fears about not measuring up to Buffy physically, in a way that parallels Tara's fears about not measuring up to Willow magickally leading to Willow shutting Tara out emotionally in s6.





p.s.: LWT, Lisa Countryman's fic Bound deals with "Tara's Oz" (as Willow calls her) coming back to see Tara, but I find that the heavy use of supernatural elements detracts from the emotional impact.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[Sheridan]

Quote:

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Obviously, Tara was certain of her sexuality when she met Willow, but what do you think about before? Did she have any romantic relationships before Willow or do you think that her family may have impeded or possibly even forbidden it?

---

IMHO I seriously doubt her father or brother would have tolerated any such thing, indeed I suspect if she was straight they wouldn't have let her have a boyfriend since their view was that Tara basically existed to take care of their needs.

After she left for UC Sunnydale is a trickier issue because it depends on whether she started at roughly the same time Willow did. For some reaosn I always had the impression Tara was a little older than Willow and could have been there for a year longer, which would allow time for some brief, tentative attempts at a relationship.

If they arrived at the same time then I can't really see there being an ex. Basically Tara knew her sexuality before Willow but Willow had more actual sexual experience than Tara.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am

[The Rose24]

I don't think Tara has had any other relationships. Remember her brother saying that The Scoobies are more people than Tara meets in high school. Also, Tara is extremely shy, and I don't think she has the guts to pursue a girlfriend. Plus, I am naive enough to believe Willow is the only other woman who could capture and hold Tara's interest.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 6/18/03 8:33 pm

[daddykat]

Afge: I also got the impression Tara (like Faith) was an "academic year older" than the native Claifornians. Might have had to work part time so she may not have actually been a *sophomore* as such when she met Willow.



As to having prior lovers, for obvious reasons (and a couple not-so-obvious) I'm about the last one here qualified to guess accurately on that. Obviously it wouldn't be soemthing her father or other relatives would tolerate. Plus the shyness. On the other hand, obviously they didn't watch her 24-7 or she wouldn't ahve gotten into the magic etc., and if another woman had taken the initiative Tara might ahve been willing to respond, fear of family notwithstanding.



I recently did a fic (not posted;I have little access to word processing) where they discuss past experiences and Tara mentions fooling herself 3 times about lovers who ended up just not being there for her emotionally, specifically a user, an abuser, and a player respectively. Somehow it feels in synch witht the ideas of "what you put into the world comes back" and "3-fold consequences." [The number "3" has stuck in my head for a totally stupid reason; my first (thankfully unfinished) attempt at fanfic was a crossover BtVS/ER slash piece with Willow and Kerrie Weaver and I found myself having Willow mention Tara having three before her and once I did that, it became my personal alternate-universe canon, regardless of logic. I abandoned that crossover fic once I realized the only reason I *really* had for doing it was a joke-rhyme title ripped off from TVGuide.]

[tommo]

I think conjecture on Tara's past lovers can only end up being just that. Certainly, from the way that she was introduced to us, and from the way that she talks, it seems to me that Tara was never really comfortable with her sexuality until she came to Sunnydale. I'm trying to bear in mind here that she would have been around for a year before she met Willow, so perhaps in that time she might have had a couple of dates. But remembering how shy she was at the Wicca Group, it's doubtful that she would have ever approached someone.



Oh. But hmm...that's precisely what she did in Hush, when she went to find Willow. Heh. So there you go; my assertions shot down in flames.



I would like to think that Tara has had some experience with romance in her past. However, I think that's probably wishful thinking on my behalf, instead of looking at the evidence that we've been given. But she definitely seemed more at ease with her sexuality, and her confidence, although not consistently prominent, did show itself when it came to matters of a more intimate nature. The whole "I am you know; yours" exchange points towards a side of Tara that was never really developed until Season 6. However, it's a side that I think has been wonderfully developed in fanfic.

"Cheese falls apart. It crumbles apart so much. You can't ever put it back the way it was. I'm sorry, it's just...you know, it takes time to eat Cheshire cheese. You can't just go for coffee and crackers and expect cheesey goodness..." ~ Cheesetropy

[3peanuts]

God, the subject didn't sound so alluring in my mind...



Btw: I really do think that the relationship with Willow, since S5, was helping in developing her confidence. Having a past life quite similar to Tara's, I admit I was not surprised when I saw her becoming more confident as she experienced her relationship with Willow. She had the possibility to grab a point in her life that wouldn't move or tremble or die or push her away or betray her. Willow was a certainty, and this is always reassuring, always able to let self-esteem grow. I think that her real character was a surprising mix of tiger and scared kitty: you scratch the kitty paint and you find a beautiful tiger, and a kitty again, deep inside. This perfectly, in my opinion, explains Entropy speech: Tara is more mature than Willow, she's aware that their relationship had changed them in a significant way, so that the Entropy Tara is quite different from Hush Tara. So their relation too has to change. She is more conscious of her feelings and her needs and how to menage them (she learnt it from Willow loving her), she knows something breaks when you leave somebody you love. So I think she was not willing to start again: she wanted to build a totally new relationship based on new-Tara and new-Willow. Then again the kitty inside her won, and they hugged. But her intentions about a differently structured relationship were still up: she was very supportive with Will in the SR dialogue about Buffy and Spike, she seemed more experienced about how things go in relationships than Willow herself. Tara endured a great evolution from frightened girl to a woman. And this really affected her way to relate to Willow.



This has nothing to do with Tara's pre-Willow experiences. I'm convinced she hadn't had any relationship before. And the fact that she ran searching for Willow in Hush doesn't change this: she was looking for a witch, for someone who had great power to solve the prob., she was also looking for someone she had created a sort of relation with. Their looks had locked during the Wicca Group meeting, and an eye-level communication can be very important for someone who rarely gets even that kind of thing. She felt she could count on Willow, not surprisingly, in fact Willow, at Tara's eyes, was a witch, someone who didn't treat her like a dork, someone who looked at her. I think it was sufficient to feel Willow as kindred, someone you look for when you're in trouble. This takes courage, but we know Tara's a tiger inside her.

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[Sheridan]

As i said before I don't think Tara had any prior relationships but I suspect she may have joined the Wicca group in the hopes of meeting someone. After all to fit in with Tara's lifestyle you would need to be both a woman and a witch; no point in having a girlfriend who freaks out the first time she did a spell. In Hush Tara was looking for Willow in the hopes of doing a spell but I have the sneaking suspicion that if that crisis hadn't arisen she would have found some other excuse to look up Willow, after all at the very least Willow was someone who took magic seriously so Tara could have 'tested the waters' without revealing her true feelings right away.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Garner]

I tend to think that Tara didn't have a true relationship prior to Wilow, but that she might have had a crush on someone, maybe in late high school, maybe at Sunnydale, and that she might have made tentative steps towards getting to know them or interacting and stopped short either because she was rebuffed, or more likely, that they weren't gay. I just sort of got the feeling that she knew her orientation, and had sort of tried to act on it, but not gotten far at all. And maybe it was her witchcraft that came between or scared off the other person. That would certainly make her more interested in any woman who showed some real power.



I have always wondered if W/T were in the same year or not. For some reason I alway thought of Tara as a bit older than Willow, but not a full year. Would Willow have turned twenty in season 5? That was Buffy's 20th birthday wasn't it? Willow and Buffy should be the same age, right. Buffy had her 18th her senior year, S3? Wasn't that when the test was given to Slayers? Which would make her the same age as Tara? I have always wondered that actually.



Garner



Oh, just for the record I also thought Willow was inately more intelligent, at least science wise, and Tara was close, way about average, and more inclined towards the arts as well and had more wisdom/common sense.

[xita]

I always assumed they were in the same year, but that Willow was probably up to a year younger because she graduated early, plus I am sure her birthday is in the summer.

-----------------------------------
Leora......Leora....

[VicariousSmoochies]

We see Willow grow into herself and her confidence as the years have gone by, from a geeky school nerdette to a powerful witchy woman who became an inherent part of the Scooby team. I think Willow was much more overt in her nature and her desire to fit in and be noticed. Tara is more passive...but I have to agree with the inner Tigress theory. Underneath, she's a bubbling cauldron of innate emotional wisdom. Glory even commented on that tingling mind of Tara's when she brain-sucked her. So, I do believe she was keenly intelligent...just more comfortable with her empathic powers vs. the scientific brew ha-ha that Willow was messing with. Two very different elements which suited each other well. Tara, like Willow did, evolved the most, in my humble opinion, during her run with the Scoobies. She went from shy, demure and awkward to standing up, not only for herself, but to those who were important to her. The Tigress roared when Anya pressed Willow about casting the spell to release Dawn's wish. I admire her strength. Gentle, quiet inner strength that you don't get to see too often in people.



Also, if you subsitute 'magic=sex=lesbianism' according to her family, maybe Tara had a fling somewhere along the lines. Willow stated she felt like the Junior Partner because Tara was out longer. Her moving to Sunnydale and going to college to probably escape the confinement of her family may have resulted from a relationship back at home that went awry. Again, pure speculation... but isn't this a fine way to spend a Saturday evening?

Tara: It's not really so much about hating the men

Willow: We're more centered around the girl on girl action

Edited by: VicariousSmoochies at: 6/21/03 7:35 pm

[Garner]

This is backtracking a bit, but I recently read some reviews of W/T relationship on the extra flamey timeline/chronicle and it got me thinking a bit. Were W/T secure in their relationship in season 5 or not?



The point was made that Tara was still trying to do stuff to impress Willow like getting online (hence the spelling comment) or her insecurity when Willow makes a comment about the Aprilbot. Now to my mind, this doesn't necessarily mean both are still neurotic insecure types. Making a comment about going online may just mean that Tara decided to try out the internet. That doesn't seem like odd behavoir to me. Almost all college students seem to have email or at least some exposure to the internet these days. Those from areas where they didn't would probably check it out. It seems pretty normal to me, not Tara trying to impress Willow (besides, she brings this up to Anya, not Willow anyway.) And as for the bot thing, that also seems typical, you notice someone attractive, make a comment and the other person has to act mildly jealous or put out. That seems like natural observation and territorial reminder. It just struck me as a typical sort of occurence, not deepseated insecurity exactly.



Anyway, I was just wondering what anyone else might think about this.



Garner

[The Rose24]

I think both Tara and Willow still have some insecurities about their relationship, hence, the fight in "Tough Love." Something had to be bothering them to prompt the fight.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

Edited by: The Rose24  at: 7/7/03 8:12 pm

[xita]

oh I think they were secure. I mean I think all relationships have their periods of insecurity but they were basically living together and were sure of each other's love and devotion. I think after Family they settled in the knowledge that they had something special. I think it's important that the insecurities of Tough Love were during a fight that just makes things worse. I saw nothing insecure about the cute jealousy with the april bot.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"The suspense is terrible. I hope it'll last."

-Willie Wonka

[Garner]

One of the problems with deciding how secure they were or weren't is that a lot of the fight from Tough Love is neither listening to the other. They just sort of go off on a tizzy and before you know it they are seperated and that's that. Which, of course, is the point of the scene, get W/T seperate and to do so with their last words being angry ones and the threat of Tara never coming back to her mind to allow a reconciliation. And there had to be one after that too. Even after the Gift and all that, W/T had to have talked about and thought about that fight. And I do agree that insecurities can flare up at odd times, whether they have a basis or not.



Garner