San Diego Comic Con

[sparrow]

Hey, ice tea lady. Talk about impressive. All bow down before ice tea lady. It was great meeting you, rally-owes a debt of gratitude for allowing me to crash and xita.

And, yet, I just can't seem to care


I'm not coming back

Edited by: sparrow  at: 8/6/02 12:09:46 pm

[Dumbsaint]

*celebrates the return of Ruf's bitterness with a fresh round of panty flinging*



Aw, hell. Let's go ahead and make it Panty flinging... Panty fic for one, Panty fic for all!

"It's not real. I mean, there are no vampires, there are no witches. Well, there are Wiccans, but they're not making out with Alyson, so..." -Amber Benson

[Kendahl897]

Xita,

What was your take on Joss when you were saying these things to him? Did he seem like he was just tolerating you, did he seem to feel bad , what..I'm curious...Did he seem to understand that we were as upset about the lies that ME spent the past year spewing as well as the death of Tara?

[Rally]

Kendahl,



In my opinion (you didn't ask but you get it anyway), he was pretty taken unawares that he might be approached. Perhaps he thought he had gotten off early when no one was there to greet him at the Q&A. He was very humble and quiet and I will get into in more detail tonight when I finish posting my reports.

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[TopoGijo]

Yall are soo funny...ice team lady...hahaha.

[Kendahl897]

rally,

i have one more question and then i promise to wait until tonight..did joss understand that we felt betrayed not just because of tara's death, but because he and m.e. kept coming out with statements saying that tara/amber weren't going anywhere? did he seem to understand that that is where the sense of betrayal, as well as the anger comes from..sorry

Edited by: Warduke at: 8/6/02 2:15:14 pm

[Rally]

Xita made it very clear to him, a) we do not consider him to be a homophobe and b) that we had placed our trust in him as a community, that he betrayed that trust, and we as a community would never instill that level of trust in him again.



Her speech, and it was a speech because Joss barely squeaked in response, was delievered of course with the placing of a copy of the Advocate article in front of him.

So though "lies" were not specifically mentioned, I think he has to know that is the base of our complaints. And I am not talking about the quips at the Bronze, which we did take with a hopefull grain of salt when the appeared. But not only he but the other communities need to understand that it was the constant reassurances that our the basis of ME's betrayal.



Even now I am watching with fascination as the Spike Redemptionists Communities are going through what we went through. At least that community(s) are beginning to understand the pain we went through. Their issues are slightly different then ours, but they are seeing the destruction of their beloved character.



This could come back to bite ME again, that it may be their show. Yes they can do what they like, but eventually there are going to be consequences. Just like Willow's abuse of Dark Magic had consequences. So will ME's abuse of their fans.





*woo, where did that rant come from?

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[tommo]

Rally love, where do all your rants come from?

----------
It's dirty. It's all dirty. And all
over me. Dirty, dirty, bad. Bad!

[Rally]

See though, I haven't been very ranty at all of late. It must because I just got my Lesbo Street Cred, eh?

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[WebWarlock]

Excellent rant it was too.



Yes I have been watching the other Buffy camps (and lets face it, how more polarized and fractionalized could we get) and I have been wondering who is next.



I was putting my money on the Cordy fans coming to us crying first.



I don't understand the Spuffers. They have no problems tell us that "no relationship ends well on Buffy" and then go back to their own boards and talk about Spike and Buffy living happily ever after.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side, home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

What the hell is your problem? - Ozzy Osbourne to me, October, 1997.

[tommo]

I will merely smile at your ranting, as I am Yummy Face. Ahem. Still.



How I've missed ranty Rally. Please, carry on.

----------
It's dirty. It's all dirty. And all
over me. Dirty, dirty, bad. Bad!

[xita]

Kendahl I don't know. I know that he wasn't dismissive. He was respectful to our pain, and he wasn't flippant. Whether he got our point or not depends on whether I delivered the right message. Again, I didn't say your lies, but i said he encouraged our trust. I wish I had prepared something. I had prepared a couple of questions but those were for the Q&A and whose sole purpose was to put him on the spot. I didn't end up doing that but I did tell him something and this was more of a personal statement desgined to show him how it felt, what he did. But this wasn't planned and something I thought of doing within 20 minutes of the signing.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Tara's eyes once again found Willow's in the rearview mirror. "Don't worry. I've got your back.
And Jimmy Gorka's loss is my gain."         - Willow grinned.

The Wisdom of War - Christopher Golden

[eccentrictulip]

xita, you've made my day. it's abou ttime someone told him exactly what he did. and you presented evidence of the lies right to his face. good for you. sounds like you got everything out that everyone has been feeling since we found about about that storyline, and i'm so happy you did. thank you .

*please use both hands....*

[Kendahl897]

Xita, this is a question for you, and since you've met him and seem to have a better grasp than most, here's my question...Knowing that we are upset about the lies, and that we as a community feel betrayed by him,, do YOU think Joss really believes that WE, as a community, would ever put our trust in him as far as a new relationship for Willow goes..Or do you think he grasps the fact that he blew it and will not be given a second chance, not without Tara....

Geez, you'd hope that maybe Marti's mothers would set her down and explain to her why giving Willow a new girlfriend this season would never work, but since Marti said that they keep calling and asking if Tara will be back, it sound like she's being as cryptic with them as they are with us..Who do you have to know, GOD? , to get a straight answer from these LIARS

[AmberBGirlie]

Hi Kittens! I was also at the Con too. I had suck a good time. I saw a whole bunch of you Kitties there in the "got Tara" shirts which rocked! I so badly wanted to go up to you guys and introduce myself but my nerves set in for all the excitement and I chickend out. Now I regret not saying Hi. Maybe next time I won't be so shy! But Amber was a total doll! Ohh and Xita, thank you for telling Joss how we feel!! You rock!



*Huggles to you all*

~Amy

[AutumnT]

Quote:

---

Am I concerned that Joss has a morbid fixation with misery and pain? Yes. Do I think he needs to be institutionalized? No. Would I call anything that I've seen on Buffy this season "snuff"? No. And most respectfully, I think that making such claims, even if it were in jest, though I don't think that's your intention here, significantly muddles and weakens both your argument and your position.

---

Even though HIP has obviously disagreed with this I just wanted you to know that I could not agree more. I have been particularly disturbed with the repeated use of the word "snuff". Mostly because it is sadly a very real and very scary thing that happens to REAL PEOPLE. Using it to describe a TV death is offensive to me. I think that using strong words inappropriately DOES weaken our argument and DOES contribute to the label of "hysterical lesbians" and just as we are trying to hold someone accountable for their message we sure as hell better think about the message we are sending too. We have a lot to be angry about without this sort of thing.

Autumn

-----------

Buffy Season 6: It grated, like something forced in where it doesn't belong.

Edited by: AutumnT  at: 8/6/02 5:06:42 pm

[kpmuse]

I looked it up and after seeing this I have to agree with Autumn.



Main Entry: [3]snuff

Function: adjective

Date: 1975

: characterized by the sensationalistic depiction of violence; especially : featuring a real rather than a staged murder



No offense to anyone at all. Calm communication is better I keep telling myself and lord knows I have sent many angry messages many a time these recent days.

Kristine


Tara & Willow Forever

Edited by: kpmuse at: 8/6/02 9:09:05 pm

[relativegirl]

As my blood alcohol level is finally dropping off a bit, I'm starting to put 2 and 2 together . . .

[1] A few weeks ago in the Joss' Karma thread we heard that the reason that OMWF didn't make it onto the Emmy nomination ballots was b/c Joss' assistant forgot to mail in the application before the deadline. Hmmmmm.



[2] At the Con on Friday, Andy told us one of Joss' assistants is gay. Hmmmmmm.



Now, do we think there may be some connection?



And this

Quote:

---

Xita, this is a question for you, and since you've met him and seem to have a better grasp than most

---

is just priceless. Xita's grasp . . . . well that pretty much speaks for itself.



Finally, I have to toss my 2 cents into the hat and agree with you Autumn and Julia. While I completely understand and support our right to the occasional and necessary angry rant where passion overwhelms reason and we all say extreme things, those are not messages which will serve our cause outside the kitten board. Invective and hyperbole are not going to sway any sound person to our cause or enlighten any rational person about our concerns.



I understand the desire to label Joss' decision and ME's handling of Tara's death as "snuff" because it was exploitive and snuff films (whether real or urban legend) are the epitome of exploitation. ME exploited the beauty of Willow and Tara's relationship to heighten the drama of Willow witnessing Tara's death and along the way ME tried to exploit our trust in their promises that they understood our concerns and would not perpetrate the lesbian cliche.



However, as bad as it was, Seeing Red was not a snuff film and killing Tara was not snuff. The term "snuff"/"snuff film" first emerged in connection with the Manson Family's murders of Sharon Tate and Rosemary LaBianca and the films that the Family allegedly shot of Sharon and Rosemary as they were being murdered. Sharon and Rosemary were living, breathing, flesh and blood women who were brutally murdered by one of the most heinous psychotic criminals of the century. Use of the term "snuff" draws a connection, whether consciously or unconsciously, between the Tate/LaBianca murders and whatever is now being labeled as "snuff."



Willow and Tara are not real people and Joss is neither a homophobe nor a psychotic criminal. He is a talented artist who displayed egregiously poor judgment concerning his artistic creation. Given the social context in which Joss' creation exists, his poor judgments have real and serious consequences for real, living and breathing, flesh and blood people. But that doesn't make Seeing Red a snuff film. Not when the actress who "died" is skipping around laughing and signing autographs and looking gooooood

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

Edited by: relativegirl at: 8/6/02 5:32:38 pm

[sparrow]

so your saying there is a connection with karma, joss not getting a nomination and his gay assistant?

And, yet, I just can't seem to care


I'm not coming back

[emma peel]

Rally or xita, do you have any idea of the number of people that may have actually seen and heard xita's "speech" to Joss.Was there any reaction from anyone else? Could you have heard a pin drop?

xita, whatever you said to Joss came straight from your heart.I don't think if you had planned it out in advance that you would have been any more effective.I think you are wonderful and am greatful to what you said for all of us.

Maybe you and Rally should go into some kind of business together...Maybe the "Kitten Avengers." (just kidding there!)

You guys are fabulous.

I you guys.

Janice

[xita]

It was not that big of a deal. If anyone heard it, it was people behind him at the booth. The con is a noisy place, this was meant from me to him. If I wanted a performance I would have gone to the Q&A, but I was not up to that and miss Amber He isn't worth that much. So at the last minute I decided to go tell him how I feel, because I probably would not get another chance.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Tara's eyes once again found Willow's in the rearview mirror. "Don't worry. I've got your back.
And Jimmy Gorka's loss is my gain."         - Willow grinned.

The Wisdom of War - Christopher Golden

[emma peel]

Thanks for the reply xita. I guess I was just hoping Joss would get shown up for the #### that he is in front of a gazillion people. But then again, that's just my fantasy.

You did a terrific job,xita. I bet his blood pressure went up and he was sweating by the time you finished talking to him.

Janice

[Rally]

Definetly no way others heard it, my mic barely picked it up. Xita said right afterwards that she couldn't raise her voice she was upset. Melonie was trying to hear what was said from nearby, but she heard none of it.



You will all get the chance to hear, I will try and put it up tonight. I had most of my Saturday report typed out and promptly left it at work. I need to crop photos and such and get those online. So I hope to have all my reports completed and up by tomorrow evening latest.

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[strongwoman66]

Hi AmberGirlie: It's cool to see your avator. Is Amber showing Goat at SD? I emailed to you via your personal email address but I'm not sure if it works...I'm sooo bad at PC..LOL



Cheers,

Strongwoman66

[xita]

Ok any rant about Joss or what Snuff is needs to now be taken to the Angry Rant thread. This is for the con, lots of people had fun, let's try to keep it to the topic!



Oh and Kendahl, I really cannot answer your question, it would be speculation at best.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Tara's eyes once again found Willow's in the rearview mirror. "Don't worry. I've got your back.
And Jimmy Gorka's loss is my gain."         - Willow grinned.

The Wisdom of War - Christopher Golden

Edited by: xita  at: 8/6/02 8:47:56 pm

[strongwoman66]

Hi xita! Is Christener Golden's 'Wisdom of War' a fan fiction? If so, where can I read this story? I'm new here so I don't know much..



Cheers,

strongwoman66

[Warduke]

It's a novel, we have a thread about it here.

_________________________


Stand and tremble at the sight of Durin’s Bane

[strongwoman66]

Warduke: THANK YOU! I'm sooo grateful for your guide to the thread of Chris Golden. I wonder they still 've copies in Canada? I live in Toronto...ummm..hope they still 've some in stores.





strongwoman66

[Rally]

Just because we are taking so long getting up pictures and reports, I will give you these two very special picture that I took at the Inkworks Booth, enjoy.



Rally and The Guest



The Guest

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited by: Rally at: 8/6/02 11:20:32 pm

[hilarita]

SWEET. rally met frank.



thats my dog! well, my pug is black. and would under no circumstances sit so well and be good.



yea for pugs, yea for pugs