San Diego Comic Con

[Epicurus]

I think kittens ignoring Joss is probably exactly what Joss hopes for because then it would be easier on him as he wouldn't have to answer to anybody.

I hope kittens talk to Joss and express their feelings. Even if he's heard the same thing a million times over, every opinion helps.



Edited to add:

Oh and I hope someone gets and "uncomfortable" look from Joss or someone makes him squirm. I want to know that what we say has an affect on him because god knows his words have affected me.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

Edited by: Epicurus at: 7/20/02 4:09:24 pm

[EvilsGood]

quite possibly, but as a writer i also know that the *last* thing you want is "no response". 'why aren't they commenting/ asking questions?" then you start to think maybe that they just didn't care and that cuts far deeper than any criticism.

[Rally]

Quote:

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and rally did post this on the front page (even if it was in jest or sarcastic, which wasn't stated)

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I see, so you omit the the question I was asked, and their sarcastic emoticon, and then you omit part of my statement and my sarcastic emoticon, and then accuse me of not being clear on whether I was sarcastic or not?



Ya know, you have a lot of nerve coming here, trying to cause problems. Taking quotes out of context and trying to imply that there is some how, wrong doing on my part.

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited by: DrG at: 7/20/02 6:43:48 pm

[Epicurus]

evilsgood said:

quite possibly, but as a writer i also know that the *last* thing you want is "no response". 'why aren't they commenting/ asking questions?" then you start to think maybe that they just didn't care and that cuts far deeper than any criticism.



I'm sure in most cases you are right but in Joss' case when ego seems to be the driving force behind his writing I think criticism is the WORST possible response Joss wants. But you know what? Joss needs the criticism. He his ego needs to be knocked down a few notches.

Kittens, please give him what he needs not what he wants… return the favor!

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[EvilsGood]

and this is just the first time part of quote has been used in the kitten board to make a point? well color me shocked.



and xita, i just *loved* this one:

Quote:

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THe kitten board has no plan to follow Joss around everywhere we go, yelling stuff at him. We have no plans to kidnap him, etc. We don't believe in STALKING. We think that kind of behavior is creepy and disturbing.

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nice tag. too bad you *didn't* bother to clarify it by stating, in the Plan C manifesto, that it too was a JOKE, etc. 'cuz it is. or that Amber laughed herself silly as we told the story to her and she also acted parts of the story out. oh wait it was on the tape you graciously offered to host so *all* kittens could enjoy the amber moments... oh wait. saw the video. you cut it out.



i'm a troll? fine. i won't post in the main kitten ever again. just stick to the pens.



but you know what? you're welcome to post on our board anytime. no matter the opinion. we *don't* censor or delete if someone disagrees with us. that's what healthy debate is about.

[BoredNow99]

Evilsgood, I'm at a loss as to how you could possibly have taken what Rally said seriously.



Even portrayed completely out of context, it's patently obvious it is thick with sarcasm.



Honestly, what do you think she's going to do - take a crack team of SWAT kittens to San Diego with her to off Joss?

That's magic!...Paul "Wizbit" Daniels

[Kilopto]

Troll?



Huh so someone who reads Kitten threads and posts is a Troll? Someone who tries to state another opinion and is constantly attacked for a different view than the one supported by the majority?



Huh. Funny. I thought that was an individual with an opinion trying to take part in a discussion...



Oh WAIT I forgot this is the KITTEN board.



I mean I've watched alot of crap from this place ever since the Tara dies rumour began.



This place, frankly, makes me sick.



No one can say anything unless it is stamped and approved by the mods and those closest to them. And no one can say THAT because it'll be deleted, like this post will, unless of course the mods leave it up to spite the person posting and try to embarass them. Turning the free speech button on and off is kinda lame though, so if you wanna delete it, go ahead. I mean you guys are so viciously adamant about such things.



I long ago tried to be an active poster. That failed when hardly anyone noticed anything I said. I wasn't going to visit this place ever again, gets me too angry, all it ever discusses are lesbian death cliches and the like, and hateful comments towards Joss. I mean a guy comes along and creates the first lesbian relationship on tv that ISN'T cliche and what happens? His so-called loyal fans spit on him and anyone trying to see things from his perspective. God this place reeks of negative energy.



Then a friend, a very dear friend of mine continues to try and post his views and he is called a troll. Do you know him? Doe he have horns and a little beard or something? Have you ever really talked to him? Nope...You just label him because you don't like his point of view.



Sigh.



This place is mean.



It's really that simple. Could any of you just take a step back, let your anger go, stop being immature and just THINK before you post?



Your words, although they shouldn't, can hurt people. You have before, you probably have now, and you're probably going to again. That's not very nice, or respectful.



I just came by to say this and now I will leave you. If this gets deleted then okay, if not that's fine too. And you needn't bother replying since I won't actually *see* it because I'm not coming back here. I don't need that negative evergy.



Just think about what I said before you dismiss it please? I'm just a human being trying to tell other human beings to be a little bit nicer, a little less angry.



Take that as you will.



-Nadine

[skittles]

Kilopto/Nadine,



I'm sorry that you feel the way you do. I am sorry that you & your friends are hurt, but I have always found this to be a good place. People have opinions & they may be different from yours. Fine. Deal with the differences that exist in the world. Learn from the differences. They exist. You can accept that others think differently, or you can fight it and in fighting, you will lose something very precious. Understanding. As for fighting or argueing, it depends upon how much energy you wish to expend. But people who have been here a long time have the right to their opinion. When you enter a place for the first time, it is not your place, you are a guest. Give people a chance to know you & for you to know them. If you disagree with them in the beginning, keep quiet & wait for the explanations. They will come & perhaps you will gain a greater understanding of why they think the way they do.



Instead of going away, try lurking and from the lurking, you may learn somethings about some very wonderful people. kittens.. people that I care about very much... "very much".



(If you wish to talk, you can email me through private messaging on the ezboard, just go to my profile. I'll listen)

(P, got your message. cannot reply thru ez. send addy thru PM & I'll reply)

skittles

.. for when I see you even for a moment, then power to speak another word fails me, instead my tongue freezes into silence... -- Sappho

Edited by: skittles  at: 7/20/02 7:12:07 pm

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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posted by Kilopto

This place, frankly, makes me sick.

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Then may I ask what you are doing here? Ther are plenty of places/message boards on the internet that inspire in me the feelings you just described, but what good does it do for me to say so there?

Quote:

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No one can say anything unless it is stamped and approved by the mods and those closest to them. And no one can say THAT because it'll be deleted, like this post will, unless of course the mods leave it up to spite the person posting and try to embarass them. Turning the free speech button on and off is kinda lame though, so if you wanna delete it, go ahead. I mean you guys are so viciously adamant about such things.

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Ok so if I delete this post then that is not ok, and if I leave this up then it is not ok either. You say free speech, a few months ago I deleted someone who said he would love to ***fuck Tara's dead body (I am using the nice words here) That is free speech, should we have left that up? Whatever you think and feel about this board, the people who post here, and the ones who moderate it, if it clearly does not agree with you then by all means, move onto a better place.

That said I don't know how the other mods do it, but I don't go around pre-reading every post that gets made on this board.

Quote:

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I long ago tried to be an active poster. That failed when hardly anyone noticed anything I said. I wasn't going to visit this place ever again, gets me too angry, all it ever discusses are lesbian death cliches and the like, and hateful comments towards Joss. I mean a guy comes along and creates the first lesbian relationship on tv that ISN'T cliche and what happens? His so-called loyal fans spit on him and anyone trying to see things from his perspective. God this place reeks of negative energy.

---

No one noticed anything you said? I read almost every post there is, but I cannot reply to each and every one. If you did not get replies that does not mean no one noticed and even if that were the case, who's fault is that? As for Joss Whedon, he got his praise on the Kitten Board, plenty of it, he got his praise when he was giving us goodness that wasn't a cliché and now when he is stabbing us in the back and giving us that cliché after all and when he is saying things like being gay is so passé he is getting anger and criticism instead. I wish the Kitten Board were still a place that is mostly a happy one, but circumstances have changed and it will take time to deal, it has only been 4 months. I have far less trouble with people expressing their grief and anger at Joss Whedon and ME than I do with the storyline and subsequent comments that provoked these responses in the first place. The death of Tara, the preceding lies and their mockery upsets me far more than people protesting it.

Quote:

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It's really that simple. Could any of you just take a step back, let your anger go, stop being immature and just THINK before you post?

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Well that is not very nice toward all the countless people who post here. I am sure at one time or another each and everyone says things in haste that might have been better left unsaid or phrased differently, but it seems to me that everyone here seems quite capable of thought and maturity.

Quote:

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Your words, although they shouldn't, can hurt people. You have before, you probably have now, and you're probably going to again. That's not very nice, or respectful.

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So have your words, so have the words of Joss Whedon. You speak out against us, yet when we speak out against those that hurt us, like Joss Whedon and ME then that is not ok? I really don't understand this.

Quote:

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I just came by to say this and now I will leave you. If this gets deleted then okay, if not that's fine too. And you needn't bother replying since I won't actually *see* it because I'm not coming back here. I don't need that negative evergy.

Just think about what I said before you dismiss it please? I'm just a human being trying to tell other human beings to be a little bit nicer, a little less angry.

---

I am not dismissing you, but you are dismissing everyone else with your refusal to read the replies. Your post was hardly an example of niceness and not at all devoid of anger, if it is ok for you to post in this manner then please tell me why it is not ok for anyone else?

Quote:

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posted by evilsgood

but you know what? you're welcome to post on our board anytime. no matter the opinion. we *don't* censor or delete if someone disagrees with us. that's what healthy debate is about.

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*editing to add: I know you prefer uncensored posts, but I have edited out the troll bits anyway.



In general I'd like to say, if anyone objects to a post if you reply please do so without calling anyone any names, and if anyone chooses to read and post on this board then you also have to accept that it does have rules and it does have it's limits.

---------------------------


Tara: "uh Willow?"

Willow: "No dancing naked, huh?...It just won't be the same."

Tara: "That's all right, we can save it for later" ----From Wilderness, the newest WT comic written by Amber Benson and Christopher Golden

Edited by: DrG at: 7/20/02 7:04:03 pm

[Kieli]

Don't you people have anything better to do than to assert how much better than us you think you are? If you don't like the Kitten, then don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I've had plenty of posts where no one responded. Big deal. I don't take that as an affront. There are just so many people here! Your invite to your Board was rather amusing, mostly because I think it's a set up for more haranguing about how bad we are. I am so tired of you people I don't know what to do. You don't agree with us? Fine, don't come here. You don't like what we say? Fine, don't bother coming back. But don't post here. You just make yourself look hypocritical and really, all it does it just give people headaches.



*puts on her flame retardant underwear* Let the roasting begin!

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[relativegirl]

As I just don't have the energy today to waste on people coming into our home and telling us how to think and behave and express ourselves, I'm moving on to happier thoughts about San Diego:



Like the fact that I got my "got tara" shirt today.



Like the fact that I heard a rumor that certain kittens were planning a "got tara" wet t-shirt contest.



Like boobies and wet t-shirts.

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[xita]

Evilsgood, I wasn't talking about you. I don't even know what you are talking about. I was just bringing up the kind of behavior that is certainly never encouraged here. We can present joss with a shirt, the FAQ, some questions at a Q&A , nothing else would be ever encouraged. I think people who know me and the board know that.



I don't go anywhere else to post, because this is the only place I want to ever post at. I don't have time certainly, if nothing else. If people don't like the way we have chosen to run the board, it is their right. If I don't like the way some people are doing something elsewhere, I either don't go there or talk to the people privately. My only concern is this board and to support the people that have been here for a long time and those who stand behind w/t 100%, and to give a space for an unpopular, yet what I believe is a socially important topic. People are free to state their opinion, but should not be surprised when the best and the brightest of the board counter post with their own arguments.



This has never been an open debate board. I have protected certain opinions from the very beginning. After NMR, many people chose W/T as a topic starter for the larger homosexual issues. They wanted to come debate with us that the bible said homosexuality was wrong. I deleted those arguments.



It also became a hobby for drive by posters to post how Willow is really bisexual. Well it got tiresome and that too got cut out. It was always a safe space for a minority opinion. And it can continue to be so. I would never ask anyone to change their rules. But I believe strongly in my own and no change in the FAQ is made without much thought and debate.



I am comfortable with the space I have created for the people who have an opinion that is widely disliked. I am proud of that. I don't try to disguise it as something else. This is a w/t board 1st, second it is a board about GLBT issues. It has been so from the very start. This is a huge GLBT issue, that certainly not all gay people believe in. There are gay people who don't believe gays should be allowed to marry either. However, it doesn't make it any less of an issue for gays and lesbians.



I understand that by taking this position many people have felt like we don't speak for them anymore, certainly that's a perfectly fine position. However, don't mistake that for something that gives anyone the right to come tell us how to behave. I know many people don't engage in these threads but enjoy other parts of the board. I continue to take people's opinion to heart about next season, about lots of issues, but make no mistake, we are not shutting up about this. As long as there is a group who still feel passionate about bringing awareness to this topic it will be here as a topic. Even Joss Whedon and Marti Noxon have recently admitted that yes, we have a point. It was less than 10 people were here when the kitten board started, I don't force anyone to post or to read, and I am not going to start now.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[Rally]

Quote:

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Like the fact that I heard a rumor that certain kittens were planning a "got tara" wet t-shirt contest.

---

Now that is truly an thought.

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[xita]

I am certainly open to that idea... i got the shirt, all i would need is a little water!

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[Rally]

Who needs water when you have... beerrrr...

------------




Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[relativegirl]

As a lifetime fan of both beer and boobies, I feel compelled to say that any beer appearing on any boobies will be promptly and pleasurably lapped up by this kitten. And I suspect I am not the only kitten willing to take this stand on this very important issue . . .

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[mariacomet]

Kilopto

I'm not going to get into a debate about the kitten board - the validity of it or the reasons the Mods have taken some of the stands that they have.



I will say that there are times I have questioned a mod about varying decisions. Other times, I have even argued a point...but in the end....I have to accept one basic principal. The board belongs first to those that worked very hard to establish it. Those who created it, FOR us. They made it, so in the end, they make the rules. In the end, if I don't like the way they do things, I am welcome to leave or create my own damm board. But beware if you do the latter, because you will constantly be bitched at. A couple of the mods are good friends of mine and they spend 80% of their time on line dealing with the board in one way or another. So do THEY make the rules while I get to bask in what they have sweated over? You're damm right they do.



And you know what, in the end all be all, THAT is there right. And if I don't like it, I can go elsewhere.



Consider something else. WHY are the FAQs there? Why is the clique there? WHY are so many angry? How is it that we went from saying 'Joss is God' to saying we will never watch him again in a matter of months?



My newest answer to the last question comes with the name of a bright young man called Matthew Shepard. For those that don't know, Matthew was - i believe - 18. He was attacked by several teenagers....tied to a fence and then stoned nearly to death. They let him there and he died in agony. Why? Because he was gay.



You see the problem is that silence is agreement. Hate crimes are an extreme example of a problem that begins with complatency. So many little things contribute to the idea that it's okay to hold people apart because they are different. We're amgry at Joss because Matthew's story is such a horrific reality, and Joss gave us the chance - in main stream television - to change minds...to get people to understand that differences in the people we love need not be evil. He opened this door....and we saw...for a moment all the Matthew Shepards being a thing of the past.



We hoped.



Maybe the truth is that there is not middle ground on the issue of hate. You must be on one side or another. Some people believe that Joss's potrayal of W/T will lead to tolerance. But I look at the end result, and I look at the fate of the two brave gay women that I loved and I see them turned into cartoons. Them and their pain.



I keep thinking of the idea of things as a war, maybe I am overstating it - maybe not. A war against hate. A war so that I can take my girlfriend's hand in public and not be shouted at, or stared at. Or belittled.



I think the Mods on this board are senstive to their responsibilities and to the feelings of the kittens. They act accordingingly. In the end, in the hopes of sparing the majority from being hassled, or hurt...or harassed.



The kitten as designed, is supposed to be a haven, one where we can all come together and love the world where Willow and Tara can love freely, and be together without it being unusual, or sick...or wrong.And I think that is a key point...we didn't JUST love W/T, we loved Buffy. A world where women could be strong and even stronger then men and that was okay. A world where the outcasts could save the world. A world...where two women could love and it be normal.



That world is gone...



Because Joss thought it was cool.



How exactly am I supposed to respect him for that?



So the mods IMHO are trying to perserve some of that world. FOR US.

Edited by: mariacomet at: 7/20/02 7:27:32 pm

[Kieli]

Ummm..beer and boobs. What an AWESOME combination! Ahem..but you didn't hear me say that, RIGHT RG?! (cuz Diana might just kill me...I could never get her to spill beer all over herself and a see through tee shirt )....the only problem with beer is, once it's dry, ewww. Sticky and such :P

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[Rally]

We might need to save the beer on the boobies than until after the wet tshirts have been stripped off...

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Kieli]

Now that, my dear Rally, is a BRILLIANT idea! That way, no friction, beer can be removed in any number of ways and, hey! None of that pesky stickiness. I think RG might be the first one to volunteer for Beer Removal duty

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[BBOvenGuy]

* takes off glasses and starts cleaning them *



Ummm... I'm just going to go over to this other thread for a while, in case anybody needs anything...

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

[xita]

A little fog there Bob or has the spirit of Giles come over ya?

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"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[relativegirl]

See, Rally, that's why you're in charge. You're a natural born leader who can see through the morass, get to the heart of the problem and proposed a sensible answer like making all the kittens strip off their wet t-shirts.



And T, I'm seriously concerned that your environment is rotting your brain or your libido or something. Why would any normal healthy woman allow beer to remain on another woman's breasts long enough for it to get sticky??? That's just crazy talk!



And nobody will have any beer-sticky breasts in San Diego. I guarantee it.



*notices that the tips of Bob's ears turn red whenever he takes off his glasses to clean them*

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[Kieli]

*sigh* Alas, RG, the evil Texas desert and lack of a healthy queer environment has left me bereft of my wits. What can I say? I was better at this stuff in college Ahem...remind me to not let Diana get within 100 miles of San Diego *smirk*

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[WebWarlock]

Damn,



Look, there is a simple fact here.



This board is about freedom of expression, but there is also a FAQ.

There is no free speech. Xita, the mods, others PAY for this board with their own money and countless hours.



We are GUESTS in their house. Honored guests are those that know the rules an abide by them.



If you shit on the carpet and wipe your ass on the drapes then they are going to kick you out. No one cares about your cries of "it's my right!" .



I have LOTS of disagreements with the mods and butted heads with a fair number here as well. But we all know how to behave and when a line is crossed.



Warlock



edited to correct a wee spellin' mistake.

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side, home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

Oh Tara... What monsters are they that think you could deserve this? Who judged you, and said "No more?" I can't let it end here. I won't. - Endless, Mike of the Nancy Tribe

Edited by: WebWarlock at: 7/21/02 1:19:04 am

[Rally]

Changes and surprise additions will occur throughout the week, so be sure to check the daily newsletter and the information boards located throughout the center. Schedules will be posted at the Autograph Area Information Desk, staffed 10:30 a.m.-7 p.m. Thursday through Saturday, and 10:30 a.m.-5 p.m. Sunday.



---



Andy Mangels, writer ("Reel World" Fiction Writers)

AA 3 Friday, 11:30 a.m. - 1:00 p.m.



*Andy Mangels is the author of the Lesbian Sex = Death piece in the upcoming issue of the Advocate, FYI*



Emma Caulfield, actor (Tooth Fairy)

AA 6 Friday, 5:30 – 7 p.m.



Don't see anything on Joss, but he may be announced by Dark Horse in the upcoming week.

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited by: Rally at: 7/21/02 12:45:19 am

[Rally]

Ok Kittens,



Time to get serious we need to start to make arrangements for gatherings. I will be at the con Fri - Sun. But I need to know when other folks are attending, if they are going to the con or just the after hours stuff, etc.



We are thinking of a dinner on Saturday, when most folks will be there. But that does not stop a small gathering on Friday, etc. So I am taking the lead on this, feel free to email me or post here.



Guess that is it for now.



Thanks



-R

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[emma peel]

Rally, to you and the rest of the Kittens who get to go to SDCC, I wish ya'll the best of luck!



Janice

[Rally]

Oh and ladies, don't forget your white tshirts.

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Well officially, of course, I have to say that I have no idea what you're talking about.

[Magrat70]

I was having a quick flick through this topic feeling jealous about not living in the states again (Kittens in wet t-shirt what more could a person want). When I came upon the charming post by Nadine. Didn't really bother as me trolls who the hell needs them but one little statement bothered me. When she said this place is mean. I have had a couple of life problems recently and have been touched and amazed by the support I have received from people on this board and like Web Warlock said I might not agree with every view stated but there is nowhere else on the web I'd rather be than on this site.



Anyway back to the wet t-shirts will there be photos



Edited to correct crap spelling

These five words in my head scream "are we having fun yet?"

Chad Kroeger

Edited by: Magrat70 at: 7/22/02 1:10:00 am