"Preventing" homosexuality??

[Mrs Vertigo]

umm... i know this is sort of coming completely out of left field, but. uh,



thank you.



all of you.



I think I want to hang around here some more, maybe see if I could learn from you... I think I need to.

[urnofosiris]

Please do stick around Mrs Vertigo.

The Kitten board is filled with as many different people you can think of: men, women, straight, gay, bi, trans, europeans, americans, asians etc. With those differences come different ideas and experiences, which is part of the charm of this board for me, but one thing I can safely say we all agree on, well two things but they sort of go hand in hand: we love Willow and Tara and there is nothing whatsoever wrong with being gay.

---------------------------


Tara: "uh Willow?"

Willow: "No dancing naked, huh?...It just won't be the same."

Tara: "That's all right, we can save it for later" ----From Wilderness, the newest WT comic written by Amber Benson and Christopher Golden

[Puff]

Big Amen to that Garfield

-----------------------
You know, it's a real deal relationship and that's why people can relate to it
Amber Benson

[Sheridan]

My family is Catholic, and the devout sort. When my brother decided to come out I had images of blazing rows and backs being turned. Instead once the surprise wore off they simply accepted that was who he was and life went on asbefore. There is no inevitable link between christianity and homophobia, some people just make it seem that way. The other thing that upsets me is that these people seem to be hugely concerned about protecting children, unless those children have the misfortune to be coloured and/or poor. Poverty and deprivation are clearly not as big a 'threat' as homosexuality. Sort of reminds me of J Edgar Hoover, hunting down communists while insisting there was no such thing as the Mafia. The bilbe is full of references to aiding the poor and and dowtrodden, don't remember any mention of gaybashing.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Gatito Grande]

Quote:

---

I just wish there would be *one* study as to why a straight guy such as the good doctor would even give a flying crap about whether someone else is gay or bi.

---

Actually, DrG, I believe there is. A few years ago, there was a university study of self-identified "straight" men. The men were surveyed, and divided into homophobic and non-homophobic groups. Then (I bet you saw this coming! ) their shlongs were wired to measure arousal, and both groups were shown gay porn. Now, which group do you think showed overwhelmingly more arousal?



GG Anyone wanna bet that if the Good Doctor Dobson were measured thusly, he'd get the "Daddy" of all boners? Out



Woohoo! Willowhand!!!

[Lindy]

Oh, GG, uhm, is there by any chance a website about this study??



I'd really love to rub that under certain peoples noses.. faces.. uhm.. wherever they like it

*********

Buffy: Kill the bad fairy... destroy the bad fairy's
powercenter, whatever, and all the troubles go away? ...

World is what it is. We fight. We die. Wishing
doesn't change that.

Giles: I have to believe in a better world.

[Dumbsaint]

You'd think I'd remember hearing about that study. I think I laughed myself out of my computer chair when I read about it originally. Homophobic "straight" guys who get off on gay porn? My, my. What would Larry have to say about that?



Probably something along the lines of, "Good times. Good times."

"It's not real. I mean, there are no vampires, there are no witches. Well, there are Wiccans, but they're not making out with Alyson, so..." -Amber Benson

[xita]

Yes, I too would love more about this study because really

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[BBOvenGuy]

The study was mentioned on PBS's Frontline, in the episode "Assault on Gay America."



Information on that episode, including a transcript, can be found here.

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

[Kieli]

Hmmm...unfortunately I think that I must correct one small thing, Ms. Vertigo. There are MANY animal species where homosexual behaviour exists or happens. So to say that every species is programmed to be "straight" is inaccurate, although I think that being genetically hardwired to "reproduce" is not necessarily confined to one's sexuality. The problem here is that Dr. Dobson has managed to take one man's research and completely skew, twist and deliberately misunderstand the results. There is a book that I recommend for reading called Living with Our Genes: Why They Matter More Than You Think by Dean Hamen who did his study on homosexuality and genetic correlations and Peter Copeland. It's fascinating reading and may help others understand a bit more of the actual truth, hard scientific evidence.



I agree with Zahir, though. This is a rather touchy subject. I, for one, would not EVER want to be straight. Been there, tried that and really it wasn't any fun for me. *shrug* I guess I like being "different", a standout. Being gay doesn't make me any less of a happy person. What is so funny is that I got more shit from people for being black and female than for being gay. How whack is that? IMHO, let 'em talk. I love my wife, I am mercifully and thankfully free of any religious attachments (I was raised Catholic but was always atheist in my heart. I remain atheist to this day and until I die) because there is far too much baggage attached to it. That is just my observation and not necessarily fact that I am stating.



Diana and I attend work-related functions together, we work at the same university, we take vacations, we socialize with a few neighbours occasionally. All in all, I think our lives are still blessedly normal. We've always been out and very few have given us grief (usually only the redneck passersby if we happen to be holding hands at the time). I'd say that being gay has been about as normal for me as it can be. I have no regrets.



Peace,

Toni

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

Edited by: Kieli at: 7/16/02 3:46:52 pm

[Amymlc]

Oooh Oooh...I have a website on the homophobia and sexual arousal study. Let me just dig it out of my work cited page of my homophobia paper from like last year.......



Okay it was done by the American Psychological Association in 1996. The website is:



www.apa.org/releases/homophob.html



Wow..I never thought I would need my freshman level English papers ever again..... It is a very interesting study...you should look at it sometimes.

They were right, I'm a homo--But I'm a Cheerleader

[Robin]

I remember someone saying "I'm so sorry for the black people, they must all be wishing to be white." It's always the same, the majority thinks everyone would be so glad to be just like them. The problem isn't the colour, the sexual orientation or the religion. There's nothing wrong with that if it stands alone, but the moment there's a majority that isn't coloured, gay or jewish or whatever the minority gets a problem. Looking through history prooves this; best example the Third Reich, they just picked out everyone who wasn't exactly like the majority was. Being part of the majority doesn't make you a better/ more worthy person or your opinion being right, it just means that some brainless got more power than it's good for this world.

And some of us have to fight more than others. But you know it's worth the fight.

[Ittybittykitty]

I think that coming from a place similar to where Ms.Vertigo is coming from I can easily say that I once held the almost the exact same veiws.(Although going to Massachusetts public schools has changed the way I eat my breakfast, not to mention the way it has reshaped my whole life, including my veiws of myself and being gay.)



It is difficult for a lot of people to accept who they are, gay or straight. It is because of what society shoves into our heads, which are these images of skinny heterosexual white folk. I don't know about anyone else...big butts are beautiful! Those are my thoughts for now. (I know! I know! I shouldn't stick it out unless I'm going to use it! yar har har.)

Meri-SCREW THE SYSTEM!
Me-I will not, who knows where it's been?!

[slayer747]

mrs. vertigo, i just wanted to add that being gay is not a 'disability' and gay people are not 'disabled'. i would like to see things this way:



i think being gay actually 'enables' us more. it gives us the capability of seeing things both ways. it gives us the capability to see what is really wrong with the society therefore 'enabling' us to do something about it. as gay people, both you and me have the chance to change things a bit. we have the chance to make others understand why we are the way we are and why most of us choose to stay the way we are.

everytime we out ourselves to people, we make a change. how? upon learning of our homosexuality, these people actually ponders about it and they try to analyze it. and it actually challenges their previous notion of gayness which is "evil". and if these people didn't see us as 'evil' before they knew of our homosexuality i don't see any rational reason why they would upon learning that we are.



and because of this chance (and capability) i sincerely consider my homosexuality as one of the greatest things that has ever happened to me (and for other members of the society). i hope you'll see it that way, too. and i actually think that it would be better if you try to see yourself as a person and that you being gay doesn't make you any less of it. there is nothing wrong with you, and with all of us for that matter. remember, you have a great deal of chance in your hands, don't waste it by feeling bad about yourself. you are beautiful the way you are and don't let any moron tell you otherwise.

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[urnofosiris]

Gatito those results are certainly amusing, heh heh, but they can't draw any conclusions based on those findings, given that emotions such as anxiety, fear, anger appear to not be taken into account and those emotions may contribute to those -uhm- responses. This still does not answer the why. I really would like to see a large study trying to find out the why. I wish they would spend half the time, effort and money -like they do on why people are gay- on studies on why do people care.

---------------------------


Tara: "uh Willow?"

Willow: "No dancing naked, huh?...It just won't be the same."

Tara: "That's all right, we can save it for later" ----From Wilderness, the newest WT comic written by Amber Benson and Christopher Golden

Edited by: DrG at: 7/17/02 2:47:08 am

[tommo]

God, Garfield, I was just about to say that. All of these studies must be interesting to someone, somewhere. But why do people keep trying to find out why people are gay? They just are. And it's not a bad thing.



Or perhaps I'm just simplifying this all way too much. Either way, I find it a little confusing as to why other people are interested in my sexuality so much, and seem to want to find the cause of it, rather than spending time and energy working to integrate it. Because on an hour for hour basis, they'd pretty much be able to work out new laws that would allow me and hundreds like me to live in this world, rather than struggling in it.

----------
It's dirty. It's all dirty. And all
over me. Dirty, dirty, bad. Bad!

[Robin]

I'd prefer that no one ever comes up saying "Now we know why people are gay. We found the gene xy." or something like this. In such a case people would try to "repair" it for the born and unborn.

Being gay isn't the problem. It's the society, church, religious interpretations and narrow-minded people.

[Kieli]

I agree Robin, however, since Dean Hamen has already posited to have found something like that, the misdirection, misinformation and the rabid fanatics have distorted things to their own ends. It seems that the human race is always going to have those Terrible Three. Until people start thinking for themselves and get over this notion of what "societal norms" really are (which are things that people cling to that never really existed in the first place oftentimes), the further we can move beyond the limitations society places.



People need to start educating themselves and very few want to, it seems. The narrow minded are afraid of change and, even worse, are afraid of being wrong. Because if they are wrong, that means that their whole belief system could possibly be wrong and facing that would be detrimental to them. Change is always going to be resisted powerfully, mostly because it can be hard and it takes work, something many are not willing to do or go through, sad to say.



*shrug* Maybe I just have precious little faith in people in general.



T.

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"

[slayer747]

Quote:

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*sigh* Maybe I just have precious little faith in people in general.

---

but that's a good thing right? faith is good...

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[jaxxofdeath]

that guy is idiot but besides that he shares much of the views of George W. (dont mess with texas) in light of the response to "what is your stance on gay marriages"-white house press member "i feel we are all sinners........" - the biggest asshole elected for president

[ArielStarr]

After reading that man's article (or as much of it as I could force myself to read) I just wanted to say how disgusted I was by it. Surely there is enough hate and sadness in the world without adding more. This man seems to actively encourage self-hate for something people have no control over and as many of you have said why is he so interested in other peoples' sex lives? His views were also very sexist: A father teaches his sons manly things and a mother teaches her daughters womanly things - so that would be cooking, cleaning and sewing I presume! I probably shouldn't comment as I really don't know that many gay people, but am I wrong in saying that its not about wanting to be the opposite sex? Surely that would make people more heterosexual, that homosexual. Does that make sense?



Why does there have to be so much labelling? Why can't we just fall in love regardless of gender. That's part of what I loved about how Will and Tara's relationship started. Willow just fell in love and it happened to be with another girl. In an ideal world this is how it could be, we would fall in love and it would be about the person not the gender. I do understand the world we live in is far from perfect, but I can hope...



It also really worries me that he is using science to try and give his opinions some more weight. I would hate to think what would happen if the so-called "gay gene" was found. Nature is so complicated and we know so little about the ourselves and the world, who's to say being gay is wrong or unnatural.



I feel so bad for those who are made to feel there's something wrong because they are attracted to members of the same sex, when in reality it is society who is wrong. I just hope that they can find the strength to be true to themselves.



For me it's about love and I just hope that someday I'll be able to find it - prejudice free.



Ariel x

"Sometimes it seems like we're all living in some kind of prison, and the crime is how much we all hate ourselves."

[The Smee]

Look. Everyone has much better thought-out posts than me. So all I'm going to do is say hey ho, you all rock and goodnight.

Relax?! With three giant alligators knocking the house down?!?.