What is love?

[Willowlover]

I know this kind of a common topic in the world but i want to know what different kittens think of it. Do u have a deffinition of love? Or do u just have examples of feelings of love as ur judge on what it is? Please answer only if ur comfortable.


The Idea for this tread was given to me by Taralover7

[Emms]

Love is a warm breeze, and that certainty when you absolutely know you would do anything to protect that person.

[SithLordWiccan]

Love is being with your soul mate, regardless of age, orientation or distance.

[Boschi]

Oy.

Ok, in truth I quite detest that word. Fuzzy definitions are no ones friend... ahem.

And it's such a potentially important word... one would think it would be neatly and mutually understood by all. But noooo - we all stagger around trying to figure out 1) what it feels like 2) what it means if we feel it 3) what it means if someone says it to us 4) what it means if we say it

Etc. ad nauseaum. All bollocks if you ask me, but since you insisted:

I will tentatively put forth that to love someone means that they are part of your personal understanding of beauty. The people I love are simply wondrous to me.

But what of the distinction between loving someone and being in love? Hmm? Perhaps for me a bit, when I am in love then I feel that I need that person in my life in order to experience beauty truly.

- Boschi

[oneyedchicklet]

What is love? This is a very good questions with many different answers. Some maybe simple, yet others may be more complex.
I too have many answers of my own. Love can be between friends as well as a couple. It's between people who care for each other. Here's a few of what I think it is.

1. Love is worth fighting for and hanging on to.
2. Love is a look that you've seen so many times that you can see it with your eyes closed and it still melts your heart.
3. Love is being there for each other whether its to listen, offer a shoulder or just company.
4. Love is remember a small detail of a story they've told you long ago.
5. Love is a phone call in the middle of the day just to say "hi, I was just thinking about you"
6. Love is staying awake just so you can watch them sleep for a while.
7. Love is smelling something beautiful that reminds you of them right away.
8. Love is laughing and crying together.
9. Love is a hug that lasts for hours.
10. Love is smiling just thinking about them.

These are in no particular order, just thoughts that came into my head. But 2 is my favorite. It gets me everytime.

HUGS
Barb

[Twisted Minstrel]

I pondered this very question in a short 'essay' a few years ago - here it is:

I think love has always been here. It isn't the sentimental stuff written about in songs and poems and stories and movies, acted out by people who are living movies in their heads all the time, who can't seem to relate to anything unless it's been spelled out for them, a fantasy willingly shared. Love is chemical, biological, part of our genetic makeup, the innermost cell of the innermost cell, the eye of the nuculei, the mote within, the speck, the finest point that threads its way, dream-like, through our synapses, veins, arteries, the very fluid of life and back again, over and over. Hereditary, a disease that lies dormant in some, or grows with us into maturity, shaping our character, invisible thread of Damocles suspended through each of us. Through all living things.

The ability to mature is linked directly with it - if love is withheld or distorted early on, held up by emotional barricades, it will find it's way through, undetected, usually, much later. We will have vaccinated ourselves against it, in fear, but in time, it mutates, breaking through our viral barrier. It's never what you expect. It is graceless and without wit; love has no grandeur about it, no artsy craftiness - only the bride stripped bare of her romance - this is science, arcane, elliptical, God's mathematics.

Euclidean, Archemedian - Fermat's devil in the details, the smallest, sparest repetition, expanding, moving in ever -widening circles, fanning out like a shockwave, a sonic boom through the sub-spiritual system. This is minor chemistry - what grows a crystal, the structure of a nylon, the sticky stuff that holds us all together, splitting the atom of desire, to the subparticle of need, into the dense innersphere of awareness itself.

If I look at you, I look at me, I look at God; if I hear you, I hear me too, and all our words are the same combinations of words, puzzle fractures and tongue twisting mind benders. I'd rather be alone, sometimes, and just listen to things than have to relate to them. Why do we live as we do? How much further could we evolve? Back to the sea, to the gills, scales, heads and tails of us, back to the ocean. We'll be schools again, diverse, forward-motion thinkers.

And somewhere in everything, is this alchemy, your lips, your hands, your eyes, your hair, every inch of you, improbable and illogical and the only things I know: I've taken years to know you, study you, inside and out and I still don't understand. You've grown on me, part of my everyday waking moving, walking, talking, eating, sleeping, dreaming, happy, sad, strangeness, wondering, wishing - all you, somehow. This was expected, nothing was an accident. The whole world came and went so we could be here, now. I don't think that's just a coincidence. This is a great science, a great invention - not a microcosm, but one tiny universe after another, collapsing, being born, joining and singing. Quantum. Inevitable. You. Me. This.

[Candleshoe]

Twisted Minstrel brought tears to my eyes, in the office, while on hold.

Beautifully put.

[kindagay]

Love, is a gentle liquid warmth that settles in your stomach & keeps you warm.
Love is an over-whelming desire and need to protect someone & be there for them; to put their needs, their life, above all others, including your own.
Love is knowing, with absolute certainty, in the depth of your soul, that no matter what happens, no matter where you are, no matter if you're in each others lives or not, that person will be in your heart every single day for the rest of your life.

Hugs
Jeanne

[ambercissism]

Love is taking the risk of exposing yourself physically, emotionally, mentally and spiritually to a person, and not thinking about the consequences that it might do to you.

[Willowlover]

Okay I guess its my turn. I should have done it first since I started the thread but i wanted to see how it went over with other kittens first.

Love is the ultimate caring for someone or something. When your with the people or things you love the world is a better place. Everything melts away and its just you and the thing you love. You can tell them anything because you can trust them with everything.



Ill write more later. For now I cant seem to get it all into words


Thx for the responses.

[WebWarlock]

I am reminded of the words of Queen:

Cause love's such an old fashioned word
And love dares you to care
For the people on the edge of the night
And love dares you to change our way
Of caring about ourselves

Love challenges us to be more an rewards us by giving more back.

Warlock

[oneyedchicklet]

Warlock,
One of my favorite songs. It's kind of a theme song for me.

HUGS
Barb

[Emms]

Compromise.

xoxo
Emms

[Twisted Minstrel]

Thinking it over a bit, I think love is just a fantasy shared between two people who are able to agree on something for awhile. It is a compromise and it can be a comfort, thrilling even - but what really makes a relationship last is commitment to the same goals. If that's love, then that's love. Good luck if you can find it with someone.

[inlerf]

complete selflessness.

because if love is transcendent, is the pinnacle of all emotions and all human knowledge, the one thing we all strive for, then it is at the other extreme of the spectrum of feelings. selfishness is at the other end, because it is base, being the drive for our survival--the most basic instinct.

hence, to love is to be not selfish. to fully care for the other person, be it the person's physical or spiritual body; to only want the best for the other person; to give all that you have and are to him/her unconditionally. and because a lover is not to be selfish, possession is not in the domain. the beloved is never yours. and yet despite that, you love--how idealistic and romantic.

[Kaia]

I agree with most of the things that all of you, kittens, have mentioned. But I am a scientist and I'm gonna play devil's advocate here (aka reach out to the PhD that I struggled so much to get) and add a few facts that explain the "biochemistry" of love (and the purpose behind the physiology of it). Don't hate me for boring you to death, it's who I am and I can't help it!

There are 3 stages in developing what we refer to as "love". The first one is Lust...understood as what makes you like someone when you see them for the first time and maybe makes you want to get closer to them. This is driven by sex hormones, like testosterone and estrogen, and it really short-lived unless you can cement the attraction in something else. Then comes the "falling in love": sweaty palms, stuttering, heart thumping, butterflies...This is all due to your brain releasing certain chemicals called monoamines (norepinephrine, serotonine and dopamine). The first two are responsible for the excitement, much like what happens when you're facing a potential danger. It's similar to a stress reaction. Dopamine, on the other hand makes for the contentment.

The thing is that all these substances are controlled, or orchested, by a chemical very similar to amphetamines (which are stimulants), called phenyletilamine (the "love high"). This substance is vital in the transition from falling in love to loving and is the responsible for the so-called "love addiction" meaning people that need constant "love highs" and go through several short relationships that crumble when the chemical rush fades. The problem with this is that we develop tolerance to this substances by over-expressing receptors to them...so inevitably we need more and more chemicals to achieve that "high". Some researchers think that could be the basis for infidelity and I believe it is an interesting theory.

If we are lucky enough to find the right person and build strong foundations to the relationship before the "high" is over we go to the third step: attachment, staying together. (Thank God! I don't think I could have finished med school if I had stayed in the sweaty palms/stomach butterflies phase forever after meeting my wife). In this phase we produce some more hormones: the first one is called oxytocin and is also responsible for the uterine contractions during labor and the production of milk during breastfeeding. The thing is that this hormone is also released during orgasm so it is said that the more sex a couple has, the greater bond between them. Cool, isn't it?

After sex we also produce vasopressin, which also has a role in the control of blood pressure and the amount of urine you produce. It is said that vasopressin is responsible for monogamy but there are no studies made in humans about it 'cause we are not among the 3% of the mammals that mate for life (sad, uh?). However, it has been said that the production of vasopressin induces the need to protect the partner and the loving behaviour after intercourse, all which is lost when this hormone is suppressed.

Endorphines, substances that we usually produce in response to pain and are responsible for pleasure, are responsible for the longevity of love. We find these substances in coffee and chocolate too. That's why people say they are a substitute for sex. Endorphines have similar pain-killing properties than morphine and that's what makes love feel so good.

Ok. So why does this happen? As the experts say, the first two stages are destined to ensure sexual reproduction, and that's why they are so short-lived. The third stage is supposed to last for an average of 2,5 to 3 years, and it's purpose is that the offspring has the minimal required contact with both parents to ensure the best environment for developing. I don't know if that sounded intriguing to you, but it made me go look for divorce statistics...and curiously enough, there is a significant percentage of divorces that occur between the 2nd and 4th years of marriage.

The scientist in me accepts all these facts. But the woman in me sees her other half laying beside me in bed and realizes that she's a woman too. So no species perpetuation here, no sexual reproduction (and boy, wouldn't I want to...). Just the pride that she chose to take a chance on me and the desire to make her as happy as she deserves to be, to help her become everything she has the potential to be and to give her everything I am.

So, my dear fellow kittens. What is love?


Karinna
---------------------------------------

PS: Sorry for grammar/spelling errors...native spanish speaker here.

[umgaynow]

Naught but a pale memory sigh

[EasierSaid]

I know that this is a pretty serious thread, and usually I don't post over here on the Kitten, but I just have to say that every time I see this topic I start bobbing my head to the side rhythmically whilst scanning the room for a hot chick to dance with. What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more. "Wanna dance? You? Me? You? Me? No? Okay."



(Good ol' Will Ferrel and Chris Kataan...)

[Willowlover]

Naught but a pale memory sigh

Im sorry for u.
Hugs {umgaynow}

is that the hug sign?
I think it is?

[COMMA]

What is Love? We have a better chance to cure cancer than really come up with a correct answer. I can say that 34 years married to Monica, it is still a thrill to see her come through the door at night. We have three children and five Grandkids, but she is still the young bride that I said I DO with in 1972. When we wake up, I still say the same thing to her that I said to her on that first morning that we woke up together. Just a simple "Good morning Mrs. C*****. I Love You!

What is love? To me it is growing together as we get older while staying the persons that eachother fell in love with.

COMMA

[umgaynow]

I know that this is a pretty serious thread, and usually I don't post over here on the Kitten, but I just have to say that every time I see this topic I start bobbing my head to the side rhythmically whilst scanning the room for a hot chick to dance with. What is love? Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more. "Wanna dance? You? Me? You? Me? No? Okay."



(Good ol' Will Ferrel and Chris Kataan...)

That was my first reaction too!

[umgaynow]

Naught but a pale memory sigh

Im sorry for u.
Hugs {umgaynow}

is that the hug sign?
I think it is?

Thanks

[Boschi]

Kaia:

Ah, nerd talk. Awesome. Quick question: For a brief and deluded period of time a couple years ago I considered doing research in evolutionary biology and pondered whether looking at the speed of evolution of the genes associated with oxytocin and vasopressin could be correlated to social or maternal behaviors. Luckily I quickly recognized that it was a little out of my league, came to my senses, and started farming. I'm much better at shuffling along on my knees with my hands in the dirt that at lab stuff. But your post still caught my attention.

While I like your take on love as a chemical reaction in many ways, it fails to draw a line between romantic love and family love in a way - aren't those same hormones associated with maternal/family behaviors? Is lust the only difference then ya think?

- Boschi

[Kaia]

Boschi:

Interesting that you bring that up. Actually I haven't read much on maternal love, but I did read a paper that used fMRI to see the areas of the brain involved in maternal attachment and compare them to that associated to romantic love and to the distribution of attachment-mediating neurohormones. They found out that both types of attachment activated regions specific to each, as well as overlapping regions in the brain's reward system coincided with areas rich in oxytocin and vasopressin receptors. So in a way I think you could say that there are similarities, but also differences...and about that I remember reading something about the role of prolactin in the maternal attachment. As far as I know there is no role for prolactin in the romantic attachment, so maybe that could be it...I dunno, but perharps you should considering getting out of the farm, putting your lab coat back on and research this some more?
I'd like to state that I am by no means an expert on this field. I just went to an evolutionary biology conference when I was in grad school and got hooked so I started reading. My 'field of expertise' (lol) is paralytic shellfish poison and the clinical applications of it...which is nowhere near as interesting as the topic at hand.

Karinna.

PS1: I hope we're not boring the kittens to death with our "nerd talk"
PS2: If you want the reference to that paper i mentioned...it's Neuroimage. 2004 Mar;21(3):1155-66.

[Candleshoe]

I hope we're not boring the kittens to death with our "nerd talk"

Nope, certainly not bored. Very interested in fact. Not clever enough to comment, but very interested

[Kaia]

Not clever enough to comment, but very interested

Not clever enough? No way. Out of your element, maybe. I know I don't understand anything about a lot of things, especially legal technicalities.


K.

[Candleshoe]

Love is out of my element...nevermind the biochemistry

Sorry, I disrupted the thread. Carry on...

[Boschi]

S'Funny thing - social behaviors are all about dependency. Sort of the blurring of the line between self and others. Which can so easily be deemed a sort of mental illness.

On one level you could say it makes sense if it perpetuates ones genes (ie protection of offspring, potential mate, or those who contribute to the health of mate or offspring). But as you said Karinna, not all love can be so neatly catagorized.

So how about love as an expression of a desire for co-creation (genetic or otherwise) with the person whom you love?

- Boschi

[Emms]

Um... Looooooove is a many splendid thinnnng!

(Okay, so I'm not sure if those are the actual lyrics....but it has to be close enough. )

[Twisted Minstrel]

social behaviors are all about dependency. Sort of the blurring of the line between self and others. Which can so easily be deemed a sort of mental illness.

Love as a mental illness. Yes, I think that sums it up nicely.