The Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Questioning/Issues Thread

[DaNzS]

you found out that your sister is a lesbian? how would you feel? excited? coz there'll be someone you can talk to about your love for girls? or feel awkward about it? i don't know... i found out my sister is... and waaaaaahhh... i don't know how to handle the situation, i'm happy but in the same way awkward... help? i haven't told her yet that i am a lesbian but she told me she is... i wanted to but i don't know... it just feels weird...

[friskylez]

Jen, Yes the closeness is wonderful, but the sex part is great ;) Ya know i think women "experiment" all the time, the closeness, that connection, is one of the reasons women are drawn to other women...



i have been with a couple of straight women who were curious, it ended up being a great time had by all, but not something they were going to want permanently..



you may end up saying that was great but ya know i dont think its for me..Or you may say wow look what ive been missing all my life :)

"Life is what happens while waiting for your ship to come in"

[LurkMuch]

Okay here is my LONG story.



I'm going on 30 and have never had a romantic relationship of any kind. I'm trying to figure out what's going on.



Growing up I was kind of tom boyish. I liked sports and hung out with the boys a lot. I remember having a crush on one of my male friends in 3rd grade and subsequent crushed on boys really through high school.



At the same time, I was really into a female singer. i figured it was hero worship (I still kind of do). That's what my mom chalked it up to as well.



Well, I get into high school and still have the occassional crush on a guy. But, at the same time my female friends are VERY important to me, although I couldn't ever say that I was attracted to them that way. An interesting note is that everytime I had a REALLY good female friend, they would just suddenly bail and I would have no clue what happened (this happened twice in high school). That's enough to make you not want to make friends with many people.



This whole time in high school, I'd had NO interest that I was aware of from anyone (male or female). So, no dates, nothing.



I go to college and the same thing, no interest from anyone. So am I just oblivious or are people really not interested? Who knows.



So, in college I have a VERY brief crush on a girl in one of my lit classes. But, I don't talk to her until the day of the final. I help her out with a project and that's it. I remember her saying that she wished that I'd talked to her earlier in the semest, then something about her ex boyfriend telling her that he thought she would probably end up with a girl eventually. Okay, so I'm thinking that meant that she was either gay or bi and figured I was interested in her that way (which kind of freaked me out). Anyway, I only really talked to her that one day and then that was that. Nothing to build on since she was leaving the country anyway.



People in my family have made jokes about me being gay for years, much to my protest (not that it's a bad thing, but if I'm not, I don't want to be identified as gay). They finally shut up lately.



Then recently I made a new friend who is a lesbian. She told me that she couldn't tell whether I was or not and said her gaydar was kinda off usually anyway.



Then I start watching Buffy and I totally get the W/T relationship. I don't see why everyone doesn't. And I don't think it's the depiction of the girl on girl action (what little there was), I think it's the depiction of true love that really holds my interest.



So, all of this plus the fact that no one has ever been interested in me in my entire life (going on 30 years) has me completely confused and utterly wigged out.



Any thoughts because I know what I'm doing now just isn't working?

Edited by: LurkMuch at: 10/29/02 5:39:50 pm

[disey6821]

lurkmuch,



i'll do my best to help you feel a little less wigged out and confused. o.k. I was almost 27 when I first felt any sort of romantic interest for anyone in my life. I had had crushes on boys and girls from the 2nd grade throughout highschool but never any interest to the point of actually wanting to date someone. I was also pretty much a tom boy. I always had closer relationships with my male friends than with any of my female friends. I never dated anyone in highschool and I always thought no one was intersted in me until I met my now ex-girlfriend when i was 25. We actually started out as friends and it took me almost two years to realize not only did I have feelings for her but that she felt the same way. It was like one day a lightbulb went off it my head and said you're in love with this girl. I couldn't believe how oblivious I was to what was going on. I know that back then I was also scared because I had never felt that way about anyone let alone a girl and that freaked me out even more. I hadn't really known that many people at the that time who were gay/lesbian and I really didn't have much of a support group whatsoever. As far as Willow and Tara's relationship I think it's the most honest of anything I've ever seen portrayed on television as far as gay or lesbian and it's so beatiful. Now as for you, you said when you thought about the possibility of being intersted in the girl from your lit class it freaked you out and you don't want to be identified as being gay. Can i ask why you think you freaked? Is it because you were scared that you might have been attracted to her? How do you feel now as far as being attracted to men and women? Not to be all twenty questions just trying to get a better idea of what your feeling. I don't think that you should believe that no one has ever been intersted in you. maybe you have been perceived the wrong way in that maybe someone may have been intersted whether it be a girl or guy and they were unsure of your interst in them. Can I just also say that most of my friends thought I was straight when they met me. The only other thing i can say is to try to be more open to your feelings about who you are and who you're attracted to. If you're still unsure there is really nothing wrong with experimenting just don't give up i'm sure you'll find love when you least expect it. If there is one thing I believe in it's fate. I hope I didn't confuse you even more or pry too much.



Diana

[LurkMuch]

Diana - I don't know. I imagine I'm just totally oblivious. I mean I swear I couldn't flirt to save my life. And the only people I would call friends right now are family. I've been burned by friends, and although I would like outside friends, no one seems to have time to go out and do stuff (at least not like when I was in school).

Quote:

---

Can i ask why you think you freaked? Is it because you were scared that you might have been attracted to her?

---

Looking back I think it was because I had been fighting the jokes, etc. for so many years that I really didn't want it to be true. I think I actually was attracted to her and if she had asked me out, I would have gone.

Quote:

---

How do you feel now as far as being attracted to men and women?

---

The last person I was attraced to was a guy. It's funny because I was really attracted to him at first and we kind of flirted with the idea of going on a date, but he never pulled the trigger. Since then when I've talked to him, it's just not the same. The attraction fizzled.



I haven't really been attracted to a woman since that girl in college.



Acutally, seeing the W/T relationship has made me pretty much decide that if love came along, not matter what gender it was attached to, I wouldn't turn my back on it.



I guess my problem is more about the flirting than anything when I think about it. I haven't ever really been that self confident. Although, I've gotten a whole lot better in the last year or so.



Thanks for the help



I'm still confused though.

[dulcinea]

lurkmuch for a second there, I thought I could've written most of your post.

I'm really not one for telling others how I feel, so usually, once someone I like has completely disappeared from my life, I'll say to my best friend "you know I really kinda liked them" and they usual reply is "god! they SO had the hots for you!!!" and of course, I never realised. I wish people would point these things out to me. Usually I'm pretty perceptive, except when it comes to this...

so really, I'm living in a state of utter confusion. I've got no idea what's going on.

if you want to email and chat or something, my address is in my profile.



okay, so no it wasn't in my profile - I should check these things first. but my email is just my yahoo messager id (i've checked, and that is there!)

Somebody told me that this is the place, where everything's better, everythings safe
- walk on the ocean by Toad the wet sprocket

Edited by: dulcinea at: 10/29/02 11:01:44 am

[LurkMuch]

Dulcinea - Thanks. I don't see your email address in your profile though. Mine is my username here at yahoo.com

Edited by: LurkMuch at: 10/29/02 10:21:10 am

[LeBuffster]

I know this will sound kinda clichè but I just have to get this out, there's nobody else I can talk to about it. I fell in love with my best friend, who's of course straight. We have a really close bond and I never loved anyone or anything more than her even before I knew I had feelings for her. I started thinking about it when my dad asked me if we were together. At first I thought it was ridiculous to even think that but when I look back he kinda had a point. We're always cuddling or she's sitting on my lap or something like that. I admitted to myself that I had crush on her when she told me that she has a boyfriend in poland now (She was born there and goes there every holiday). I was devastated and jealous, of course. I'm just glad that he doesn't live here (I live in germany by the way), I couldn't stand seeing her with him. Everytime she tells me how much she loves him my heart breaks anew. It's just, that sometimes I think there is more between us because of the things she says and does. It's really frustrating and the only person I would talk to about it is her. I really don't know what to do right now.



&

Diane

Wanna fly her away where the sun and the rain
come in over my face, wash away all the shame
"All The Things She Said"-Tatu

[LurkMuch]

Diana - Feel free to comment more on my response to you. Although, I don't know if you really have much more to say. I'm still trying to work everything out in my mind.



For some reason, I feel the need to analyze the situation in college, because i don't think that I've ever really thought about it m terms of where I stand now. I really have no idea what was going on there. Whether she was interested or just making conversation.



If I decided she was interested, I would have some thinking to do I guess about how I would have responded, etc. if the situation had been different.



It's funny the guy that I mentioned in my post dropped by at work today and I didn't feel the slightest twinge for him.



I've gone long stretches not being attracted to anyone.



I guess I just want a chance at a relationship. I see what great relationships a lot of people seem to have, and I want that too.



Okay, now I'm depressing myself again.

Edited by: LurkMuch at: 10/29/02 7:04:08 pm

[disey6821]

lurkmuch,



sorry it took me so long to get back to you i had an extremely long day at work and then had to take my mother shopping (UGH!) just needed to get that out of my system.



I understand your need to analyze the situation. You should think about what you would have done if you realized the girl in your lit class was attracted to you. It may help you work through your feelings and thoughts regarding your sexually. I'd say the same as far as dating a guy.



I totally agree with what you said about not turning your back on love no matter the gender. I have good friend who is Bisexual, not saying that you are or not because that seems to be something your trying to work through. Through the many conversations I have had with her I've learned to open my eyes and see how someone could be attracted to both sexes.



I get the self-confidence issue because it's something i'm trying to work on myself. considering i don't know you and i really have never talked to anyone on this board before i find it really odd that i'm telling a complete stranger about my life. i know what it's like to be depressed and not have anyone to really talk to in regards to my personal life.



who wouldn't want to experience such the loving, caring relationship that willow and tara had. it's something i long for myself also. i can't really tell you what to do i can suggest that maybe you take a chance the next time you meet someone and make a move, even if it's to just hang out and go to a movie or coffee, try to open yourself up more to other people. i should so seriously be taking my own advice right now! what is wrong with me???? it's so easy to tell someone else what to do and even easier to sit on my ass and do nothing. o.k. enough about me.



um, if you think i'm providing any assistance or if my comments are worthless you can be honest and tell me. but if you want to ever talk e-mail me at rinaldodiana@hotmail.com It's easier for me to check my hotmail at work as i won't have these gay/lesbian sites on my computer that i could somehow ever get fired for. i can't help but lurk on the kitten when i get a chance and i've decided that if my boss ever said anything to me i'd claim sexual discrimination anyways.



please try not to depress yourself much!!!!!

[BTVSfunatic]

Lurkmuch,

Your post is like an eco in my head! Uh-Oh!!!

Thanks for sharing!

Jen

[mfashnick]

Hey there, I have been lurking on the board for a few now. I just wanted to ask for your guys advice, since thats what it seems this thread is all about.



Okay, I was best friends with this girl about 2 or 3 years ago. She was always really nice and careing and the best friend I ever had. I always felt this connection with her, I cant explain it. Anyways, our friendship didnt last. Alot of things, stupid, little things, came in the way. I wasnt always the best friend to her and I realize that now. Our friendship just ended. For the first year after that, I had feelings of hate towards her. I couldnt stand her or being in the same room with her. Then, that year, I began questioning my sexuality. I thought it was only a phase and got over it. But, last year I began questioning again and I realized that I am inlove with her. I don't know why or how it happened but it just did. The Willow and Tara relationship helped me alot with what I am going through and got the negative perception I had for gays and lesbians out of my mind.



My question is, where do I go from here? Am I really gay or is it maybe I miss her friendship so bad I think I love her? I am attracted to other girls too, but not really guys. Sorry if this bored you too much...

[AnjelX]

I've asked a few people but they can't seem to get their heads out of their asses to really listen to me. You guys are pretty much my last hope before I go insane. I'm straight but I'm trying to figure out if I could be bi-sexual. I'm completely clueless over such things. Male or Female.



OK, there's this girl, "K", I sort of know in my karate class at school and I'm not sure if she likes me or just wants to be friends. I barely know her. I only know her name and that's about it. I do know she's gay, and she has a girlfriend.



K's an advanced student while I'm just a beginner. The advanced students help out the beginning students and today she was helping my group and she asks what I was doing for halloween. I tell her, "Getting wasted." She nearly begged me to take her with me, I thought she was joking since we don't even know each other but she wasn't joking so I agreed to take her out drinking with me on Halloween. She told me to get her number after class and I thought that would be that. But all through class I could feel her eyes on me. And she would keep smiling at me and I don't think it was just a friendly "Hello. How are you?" smile. After class, she asked if I was going to the locker room and I said I was so she said she'll just meet me there but she kept following me around while I was waiting for my friend to get her stuff ready to go. We started talking afterwards and all of a sudden, she had alot of things in common with me. A group of us hung out afterwards, she paid quite a bit of attention to me and she tried tickling me once to which I jumped about 30 ft in the air and chuckled nervously. Then the group headed over to Starbucks and we all got some drinks and sat and talked. K sat with her gf and they seemed pretty cozy together. They were all cuddling and hugging and I think they kissed. But K kept looking over at me a lot. Then K comes and sits with the rest of the group while K's gf talks to another classmate. K joins our conversation, still staring at me alot. Then K tries calling someone, she said she was calling her boyfriend. I just saw her kissing her gf just like 2 minutes ago and now she's calling a boyfriend. I don't know if she was kidding or not.



Anyways, before this thing gets too long. I'm just confused on what I should do. I've always had girl crushes but I've had guy crushes too. I've had boyfriends but the relationship never really works out. I like guys but I'm also attracted to women. Anyways, my friend says K just wants to "get into my pants". I'm thinking maybe there's a bit of trouble in paradise and K's just trying to get back at the gf. I think I might like K but I'm not sure. I just don't know what to do.



Also, I have her phone number and she has mine. She should be the one calling me right? She asked me to take her out drinking anyways... I'm just not too good with the whole calling of people thing. I never know what to say and end up sounding really dumb. *Sigh* Things like this should come with an instruction manual.

[Dumbsaint]

AnjelX, that sounds like a little thing we in Gaysville call "dyke drama." Although if she wasn't kidding about the "boyfriend" thing, the "dyke" part is, yeah, questionable.



My advice? Anyone who openly leers at another woman with any intention of trying to get her in the sack while snuggling with their girlfriend, problems in the relationship or no, is worth neither your time nor your attentions. If you know you like women, and you're wanting to experience what it's like to be with a woman, I recommend that you find an unattached one who isn't likely to merely make you the latest in a series of conquests. Even if you're just looking to hook up, do you really want the drama of getting involved with someone who is in a relationship and possibly just looking to lash out at her partner? Is that something you really want to contribute to? I know that's not baggage I'd be interested in picking up were I in your shoes. And believe me, you've never seen drama until you've come face to face with dyke drama. It's a breed of its own, and is to be avoided at all costs.

"And never let it be said that I left a Tara craving unsatisfied." Willow, Wilderness Pt. 1

Edited by: Dumbsaint at: 10/30/02 5:47:37 am

[AnjelX]

Dumbsaint, thank you for the advice. It's the first piece of solid advice I've gotten so far.



Its just I don't know if she was kidding or not about the boyfriend. I'm pretty sure she's gay. I just don't know if she was staring at me cuz she wants to hook up with me or if she was just looking at me cuz I was new to their little group or if I had spilled something on my shirt and she was looking at my stained shirt. Like I said before, I'm clueless in these matters. Male or Female. Her gf was present at all the times K was talking/staring to/at me. So, I really don't know what her motives are in doing all this. If the case seems like K is trying to get with me just to get back at her gf, then I'll remove myself from the mix immediately but otherwise, I'd like to be at least friends with her. From the little I know of her she seems like a really cool person and someone I could totally be friends with. That's also why I agreed to take her drinking. I didn't agree to take her out bar hopping with me hoping she'd get drunk and try and get into my pants. Or that she's hoping that I'd get drunk then she can get into my pants. ( do I make sense?) That thought never occured to me until my guy friend pointed out that guys do it all the time. (take girls out and get them drunk so they can get into their pants easier) I've got all these different scenarios playing in my head and she hasn't even called me yet to confirm plans and such. I'm afraid my head's gonna explode soon from all this. This is my first experience with this sort of drama. (not meant to be stereotyping or generalizing.) It's also my first encounter of the female kind. I'm just so confused about everything. I've had so many different people giving all sorts of advice I just don't know what to do anymore. But I am thinking over what you wrote Dumbsaint. I guess I'll take it one (cautious) step at a time.



Any other advice will be greatly appreciated.

[SJ]

Good advice Dumbsaint. Totally agree.

[Yelowsub]

I really need to know that there is someone to talk to right now, since I can't talk to anyone that I know personaly, about this.



I've known that I've liked girls since I was 15. I'm 17 now and still in high school. I have never been sure if I am a lesbian or bi. But it's never been a problem before.



I haven't had a boyfriend for almost 18 months, but recently my best friend starting shoving me and this guy together. Steve and I were friends and we had hung out a few times. One day on the marching band my best friend Megan and I used him as a human pillow. He was really comfortable so I crawled into his lap and fell asleep. I figured that since Megan was also falling asleep on him it wouldn't be a big deal. (what a mistake)



My friend kept of commenting on how cute we looked together. I didn't think much of it, because, well why would I? no one is ever interestred in me.



We hung out about a week later and he asked me out. I just said "I don't know." It is now about a week after that night. We have talked in school (no big deal, he didn't act ackward after I "turned him down"). Today I had him drive me home from a club meeting.



At one point during the ride he put his arm around me and I put my head on his shoulder and threw my feet up on the seat. It was just a really comfortable position. Suddenly I became really depressed and almost started crying.



Is this what I have become. Am I so afraid of people finding out about me that I would put myself in this situation? There I was almost snuggling upto a guy in his pick-up truck as he sang Sweet Home Alabama.



This isn't who I am. I don't like Steve in that way.



When Steve hugs me I'm comfortable and it's nice. But I remember when mt friend Rachel hugged me one day in school and my knees became so weak I couldn't walk right.



On Friday night I knew that Steve would be in the audience of the school play that I was performing in and I just shrugged and said "alright, cool"



But Friday night I saw Rachel before the performance. She talked to me, patted me on the shoulder, and smiled at me. I forgot all of my lines, and I could do was stand there like a dork, smile and giggle as she walked away.



Steve is a really good friend and I don't want to lose that. but it would be so easy to go out with him, play the straight girl for another year. I really miss being kissed, but I can't look into his eyes when he hugs me. I can only look at the floor.



I don't know what to do. I like it when Steve hugs me, it's nice and safe. But he'll never make my knees weak like Rachel's smile.

Edited by: Yelowsub at: 11/18/02 3:45:41 pm

[Dumbsaint]

Yellowsub, you know, as hard as it has been at times to just be who I am, put on a brave face and say "World be damned if you can't deal with this," all the while trying to stare down my own insecurities (which are considerable), I gotta say, it's been worth it all the way. Playing it straight when you know that's not what you're really all about may feel safe, especially at age 17, but it sounds to me as though you're convinced that that's precisely what you're doing- "playing" at being something other than you are. Or at least other than what you feel for Steve, and what you feel for Rachel. Doesn't sound too fair a thing to do, to yourself or to your friend who likes you. But I get where you're coming from. It's not an easy place to be. And there are people here who are listening, so please don't think you have to feel all this stuff and deal with it by yourself.

"Spank me, I'm Julia." -Binty McBint

[La]

Julia has some good advice... I'll just add that, forget about gay or straight for a minute, if you're not interested in Steve, you're not interested in him, doesn't matter if he's a boy or a girl.

~La



Our bodies are on loan from chaos; the integrity of our selves is but a fleeting moment between womb and tomb.

~David Gordon White

[slayer747]

yellowsub,



first of all, we are all here for you. and i guarantee that almost everyone (if not really everyone) n this place has been through that situation so we really know how it feels.



i am 18 and for years i have been also "playing" the role of the straight girl. it was okay, until i fell in love.



to cut the story short, just remember this does the pain outweigh the blessing? if it does, it is time for you to live according to what your heart tells you. it is not a very easy and fast process, but every little thing in life that is important is not always easy. start with the little things, when a friend asks, find the courage to answer the question in complete honesty. don't try to gve the answers that would please them. give them the one that you really want to say. start from there, and soon enough you will have the enough courage to finally live the life that you so want to.



in the end of the day, yellowsub, you are left with the person that you have no other choice but to deal with: yourself. and to sleep knowing that you spent the day being true to yourself gives you peace.



hang in there, sweetie. we're all here.



*hugs*

- Tiffany (rogueslayer747@hotmail.com)

Edited by: Warduke at: 11/18/02 9:35:10 pm

[relativegirl]

Hey Yelowsub.



I just wanted to say that I think I understand where you're at and what you're going through b/c it sounds very familiar to what I went through at various points in my life. I always knew I liked girls, that was never in doubt, but I was confused about whether I was bi or lesbian b/c it was so hard to sort out and understand the limits and levels of my attraction to boys and men. I had always had more male friends than female and ended up having more bfs than gfs. I certainly understand how much easier it is in a superficial sense to enjoy the benefits of being treated like a straight woman. But I also have pretty vivid memories of being at school events with my male date and spending the whole evening staring wistfully at some woman I wish I had been with instead and ending up crying at the end of the evening b/c it was all so hard and confusing and frustrating.



It's trite, but you know it's true: Life is short and you never really know how much time you will be given to live your life or how many opportunities at romantic happiness will come your way. So you might as well experience all the joy you can with the time and opportunities you're given.



I've been fortunate enough to date some truly wonderful men who I loved very much. But, if you know you like women, lemme tell ya, nothing NOTHING can compare to being with a woman who you are truly in love with and with whom you can be completely yourself. There's just nothing like it in the world. The benefits of passing for a straight girl, IMO, don't even hold a candle to the profound happiness of being able to be completely yourself and being loved by someone who knows exactly who you are. Don't cheat yourself out of an opportunity to experience the real deal.

Occasionally I'm callous and strange

[samiamiguess]

Hey Yellowsub (and all)

I don't post that often, and usually in pens but I thought I would here as what you're experiencing sounds like something I can empathise with, and that is allowing yourself the freedom and acceptibility to be ok with who you are.



I'm bi, a term which I don't like, but lived the life of a straight girl for longer than I care to imagine, but it wasn't/isn't who I am. But then I got confused, I knew I liked girls, but did that make me gay? I've had girlfriends who are beautifull to me but, when things didn't work out, what was wrong with me? And heck, I was attracted to both, either. Really not helping matters. I'm a physicist so I like to rationalise things, have a definitive order and structure to things. But as en ex-girlfriend so wonderfully pointed out to me, sod that. You love who you love. Listen to your heart and accept yourself. like yourself. It took me a long time to. but I do now. As La pointed out earlier, forget the fact that they're male female. Listen to yourself.



Interestingly I'm now with a bloke and I'm very happy with him. I did not however, have a phase with women. No. People are far too special to mess around with.



I have been in love twice. For which I'm eternally grateful for. Once with a fantastic lady who will always be with me, she was my soul. and now. I am lucky enough to have people that understand me and respect how I love, which is basically with everything. My only regret? I'm a breast girl, just something about em..



But don't forgo the chance to be truly happy.



Sonya

Edited by: samiamiguess at: 11/20/02 2:35:56 am

[Yelowsub]

Thank you everyone. I knew that I could come here for some great encouraging words. I'm sure that most all of the kittens have gone through a similar situation. Thank you

[Arafel the Witch]

OK, this is a question for those who are, like me, truly bisexual. Sometimes I don't understand myself. For the most part, I've made piece with it, and I prefer to be monogamous, because I've been in situations before where I haven't been and it can get very strange and confusing very quickly. I married a guy I fell in love with 3 years ago, and though his pack-rattedness sometimes makes me crazy, I still love him completely. He makes me laugh a lot, and keeps me sane. Sometimes it seems that after 3 years of marriage, things aren't quite as wild as they were when we first met, but that's only to be expected.



HOWEVER, it seems every 3-4 years I meet a woman and develop an intense crush on her. The last one, 3 years ago, didn't result in anything physical, though we both flirted with it. We are quite close friends. Recently, it seems, the goddess decided I needed to meet someone again, and brought another wiccan into my life, the first I've met in almost 9 years. Now, hubby is pretty much an atheist, so meeting this woman was truly wonderful from a spiritual point of view. However, the two of us went to see Bowling for Columbine together and it was really intense, and we held each other through some parts of it. I feel a real connection with her, and I haven't stopped thinking about her. I know I will never leave my husband, because I believe strongly in the vows I made.



For those who are bi, do you sometimes find yourself loving 2 people at the same time? Even for those who aren't, does anyone else question the whole monogamous thing ever? Or am I just driving myself crazy for no good reason. I just felt a need to vent, because sometimes I question why I do this.

[darkmagicwillow]

I have been in love with two people at once, and like you I stuck with the person I was originally committed to. In retrospect, she was the wrong person, but I think it was still the right thing to do in that situation. Humans are not naturally monogamous, both sexes having strong biological reasons to break such agreements if they can do so undetected. Of course, we're not just our biology so that doesn't mean that monogamy doesn't work well for many people.



I've known a couple of groups who were lucky enough to make it work as a long term threesome, or rather triangle, where one person had a relationship with two other people but those people have don't have a romantic relationship with each other though they were friends. It's complicated though. Instead of one 2-person relationship, you have three such relationships to deal with. One person I knew had a complicated schedule for which of the two men she lived with that she would be sleeping with each night. Not spontaneous, but it did maintain fairness.



Six or more years ago when I read it, I found alt.polyamory on Usenet to be a very supportive forum for talking about such issues.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[La]

just to tackle the whole monogomy issue. I think monogomy is awesome, but i still sometimes wonder. things change. people change. sometimes one person changes more or in different ways than others. i totally want to get married some day. but i wonder. i guess worry is a better word than wonder. i can barely make a decision about what i want to study. heh. monogomy. pfff.

~La



Our bodies are on loan from chaos; the integrity of our selves is but a fleeting moment between womb and tomb.

~David Gordon White

[BTVSfunatic]

I think that all things are relative to the situation. We look at times in which people are raised. Was is harder to raise kids back in the 1800s compared to the 2000s.......well I don't think we can make that comparison because the truth is that things change so fast and what you belive to be true one min can change with flick of a switch.



So can we compare the marriage/relationship now to what it was before????........i don't think so....the only thing you can compare is how things are feeling at THIS moment. It's all relative to the current situation and none other. There's too many stages of life and development or ourselves to be able to compare long distances of time. Sound crazy???



Its a tough one but thats what I believe! I just take life one-day at a time. My relationships are easier to deal with that way!



Good Luck!



Jen

Willow:I knew it. I knew it! Well, not knew it in the sense of having the slightest idea, but I knew there was something I didn't know.

[Consolata]

I've been in love with two people at the same time. One I married and one, (first love) I was friends with. The woman I was married to I really was in love with and at the same time when my first love moved back to Cali I started talking to her and writing her more and I realized I was in love with her. I tried explaining this to my wife who understandably wanted to be the one and only and didn't believe anyone could love the two people at the same time (that way) so we broke up (she's still my very bestest friend, it took alot of work,tears, conversations, love) and the first love I was in love with decided that she loved me but no longer felt same sex relationships were right for her, religious/personal reasons and we are not talking right now mainly because I am attracted to her in all these ways and she's now gone on to have a baby and later a husband and I can't pretend that I only feel friendship and the only way I can truly be a friend is to not be in her life. This is what I tell myself any how. So, yes you can be in love with two people at the same time, I'm just not so good at it. And to quote from a song "much too much too much for one but not enough for two"...and monogamy..I find myself whenever I am involved with someone there's always someone else I am interested in but I don't physically do anything about it. I can only be physically involved with one person at a time and I find this to be true, that sometimes emotional affairs are just as or more devastating than consumated ones.

dear God, I'm here..I'm here.

[EffieBlue]

I think it's important to remember that you can get all the advice in the world and read or know first hand of people who are happy with multi-partner relationships and know many people for whom there is only monogomy.



What it comes down to, is what you are comfortable with and what your partner is comfortable with.



If you are in a relationship and meet someone else that you are attracted to and fall in love with, weigh up whether you want, at the end of the day to lose the person you are already in a relationship with. If you are able to talk openly about the situation with your partner be sure they are agreeing with the idea of an "open" relationship because they are comfortable with it and not because they will agree to anything rather than lose you. This will NEVER work and eventually will lead to a very destructive relationship.



I think it's entirely possible to be in love with 2 people at the same time but unless all three of you feel this is acceptable, someone is always the "lesser" partner and will feel that. Eventually resentment will build and quite possibly all three (or how ever many involved) will feel under pressure in the relationship and that is never good or healthy.



It can only work if all of you agree to the set up.



Sometimes it may be easier to think you love the 2 people equally becuase you can't bear the thought of hurting either person or losing one of the people, by calling an end to the relationship/affair. However is this entirely fair to the others involved.



In the end you may have to choose one person over the other and the longer you leave it the more hurt will be caused.



Only YOU can know what is exactly right for you and what is to be gained or lost in any given situation. NOTHING is ever black or white or right or wrong, only what causes the least hurt or isn't destructive for all involved should be the important factor.



Jill



************************

Buffy.....about as much use as a solar powered vibrator on a rainy day.

[Yelowsub]

I dont know how people do it. I don't know how to deal with all of these messed up emotions running through my head. I've been lieing to myself, to my friends, family, and everybody I ever come in contact with.



Tonight I was watching a movie at a friends house. This boy had his arm around me and was rubbing my shoulder. After the movie we just turned toward each other and were lying down in a type of hug. I was enjoying it, because well who doesn't like to be held? He was rubbing my lower back and shoulder. But as he was rubbing my shoulder I glanced up and saw his hand. The entire time I had been picturing a woman's hand, slender with long finger nails. but when I looked up I saw a big hand with bitten down nails.



I began to feel depressed and guilty.



I've often thought of kissing him, but whenever I look at his face I never want to do it. I think that it's because it's never the face I picture. Like with the hands I'm almost startled when I see a man's face. I've gotten into the habit of never looking at him. Which seems incredibly cruel.



Maybe it's just this one perticular guy. We have nothing in common. He likes all of the music the I hate, he dresses preppy and I'm a punk, The list just goes on forever. But I'm just so dieing to be kissed (it's been 18 months and counting) I just feel like I'm using him.



Why won't these emotions sort themselves out. I mean I know I like women, but do I still like men to the point where I can be in a relationship with them?



uggg, how do people pretend to be straight for years? I'm destroying myself after only two months.



I'm sure that almost everyone here has been through this...can you please give me words of encouragement?



Now this isn't really an issue of if I should come out. Because I don't feel like I would have a base of support at school. Last year there was a group of bi and transgendered people ho were very supportive, but they have all graduated and now I don't have that. I've been shoved back into the closet with the point that now nobody knows. I can't talk to anyone (except for you lovely people here). I just feel like I don't have a need to come out of the closet until I find a girl who I cna have a relationship with. (now when I go to college that will be a whole different story. GLBT meetings oh boy I can't wait! ) I don't see many possible relationships here in a town with more cows than people.



sigh

Edited by: Yelowsub at: 12/1/02 8:57:57 pm