The Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Questioning/Issues Thread

[Vampire Willow]

OKay, I have a weird question...



What is the difference betweek a "dyke" and a "lesbian"? I have heard it refering to different types of women (not nessisarily in the derogitory sense.) I am a big loser and can't figure this one out. HELP OH WISE ONES!



~Tash xoxo

...and that's trying to cheat at Scrabble. ~Eddie Izzard


We are the speakers of truth and the dreamers of dreams! ~Me

[Gatito Grande]

"Lesbian" and "dyke" are two different names for women who love women.



Lesbian comes from the Island of Lesbos, home of Sappho, lyric poet of the 6th (?) century BCE, famous for her homoerotic poetry (see, for example, the poem that Willow was writing on Tara's back in Restless). I couldn't say, off hand, how long "lesbian" has been used for female homosexual: I'd guess maybe a 100-150 years, give or take?



"Dyke" also has a colorful history. The version I know, has it short for "bulldyke," which in turn comes from Boudicca, famous Celtic warrior queen, who fought the Romans in Britannia in the 2nd century (eventually taking her own life, over surrender). Bulldyke, and dyke have had a more pejorative connotation than "lesbian" in the 20th century---not uncoincidentally, they (bulldyke/dyke) have also been more often associated w/ masculine, or "butch," women-loving-women. But, like so many other pejorative terms about oppressed minorities, "dyke" has been largely reclaimed (though it still could be considered insulting, coming from someone who was not "family"!).



GG Thanks for asking! Out

[secret house]

thanks GG



...um maybe i shouldn't have said anything =/

Edited by: secret house  at: 7/19/03 11:23 pm

[Gatito Grande]

I'd say you just made a pretty big step, secret house: Yay you!



GG I'll leave the advice-giving to someone who hasn't been essentially where you (newly) are, for oh, about 17 years . . . Out

[notallgrown]

hi. i'm new, i'm not sure if i'm postin in the wrong place, or interruptin a conversation or anythin by postin here, but i'm hopin i can get some help! here's my situation:

i'm 16. I'M A LESBIAN- but i'v been sleepin with a guy. he's my best friend. he's the only person i've ever slept with. i don't believe in sex w/o love (not to critise anyone that does of course), and although i'm not *in* love with him, i rly rly love him and so decided it was ok. he knows that i believe i'm a lesbian. so basically i see u lookin at me with a rly confused expression on ur face thinkin, 'u can't be a lesbian' (or mayb u'r particularly understandin people *fingers crossed* ). i slept with him not because of any attraction at all, simply for companionship (i didn't use him, he slept with me for the same reason). i'v been through a lot and he's helped me through it. we sort of saw sex as somethin that we cud share as friends, and i don't regret it for a minute.

i do think i'm a lesbian tho. i'v been attracted to guys in the past, but i'm not anymore, and have always been attracted to girls too. i thort i was bi, and that wud probably be a better label for me considerin my situation, but i no longer feel that i am bi. i feel like, if you cut me open GAY wud be written somewhere in there. i feel that i cudn't be comfortable in a relationship with a guy, only with a girl.

my question, and reason for postin here, is rly; do u understand me? am i kiddin myself that i'm a lesbian when i'm sleepin with a guy? has any one had a similar experience?

Edited by: notallgrown at: 8/14/03 2:53 pm

[Iamyouknowyours]

Notallgrown, I am right there with you. I am a lesbian (no attraction or desire to sleep with men), but I am in the midst of an unusual arrangement with my best friend -- who happens to be a guy. The best term for it would probably be friends with limited benefits. Look at it this way, if you two are having fun and no one is getting hurt, more power to you. Sexual preferance is who you want to be with, not neccessarily who you are with (for example married men/women who realize or accept years later that they are gay). You and you alone can truly know how you feel and who you love. I wouldn't worry about it. The kittens are an understanding bunch. Many of them have had to work through just as sticky, if not stickier situations. (Was that bad use of the word sticky? Oh well.) If you want to talk to someone my email is:eltonsgod@aol.com



Also, I agree with you on the sex/love thing. I feel uncomfortable involved sexually with someone I do not love. However love is a wide spectrum, and it is possible to love someone without being IN love with them. I don't know, that's just my 2 cents.

[notallgrown]

thanks for that, iamyouknowyours (), it's kinda nice to know someone has a similar sort of thing goin on, even if it's not quite to the same degree. i don't rly have any desire to sleep with men either, my best friend just seems like an odd sort of exception. i hate the thort of even kissin any other guy- it wudn't feel right because i can only imagine myself with a girl. perphaps it's different with my friend cors once upon a time, when i did fancy guys, i did have a bit of a thing for him. i obviously don't anymore- i don't feel attracted to him at all, but maybe those past feelins are why i feel ok to sleep with him.

if anyone else has anythin to say about this i rly rly rly appreciate anythin u have to offer. my head's a little bit in a spin and i sort of feel like i'm betrayin lesbians everywhere by not bein true to who i am or somethin. does that sound stupid?

[maudmac]

No, notallgrown, that doesn't sound stupid at all. I hear you about that. I do think you'll probably encounter some lesbians who'll bristle at you calling yourself a lesbian if you're having sex with a man on an ongoing basis.



But, here's the thing, you don't owe lesbiankind your allegiance and a promise to never have sex with men. Your only allegiance should be to yourself and your desires. It's your life and it shouldn't matter what other folks think about what you do. Do what it makes you happy to do!

---

Green green grass surrounding me / Wind is blowing through the trees / Sun is bright and I feel happy -- Shonen Knife

[wa star]

And in the end, you can learn to live with that. Being 16, you don't have set your sex life in stone! So you like girls, used to like boys, still have some sort of relationship with a boy.....you might even change your mind about all this again. Relax, it's all part of growning up. I personally *changed sides* a couple of times. It's not harmful-- hard maybe, confusing, that's for sure-- but it's not something that going to cause long term problems.



Try to look at your relationships in a healthy/not healthy way. If your current boy is a positive thing--- keep him. The person in my family who has given me the most grief about my bi-ness over the years is a women who shacks up with loser guys who beat the crap out of her until they get sick of her bitchiness, then dump her. That's really fucked up and wrong for a person to do to themselves. What you are currently doing sounds healthy-- a learning process about what you want. Give it couple of years--- things will work themselves out. But with a name like notallgrown-- you already know this-- good luck

[Boys In Bikinis]

Hi all. Coming out question:



For those who have unnaccepting parents, did you feel better after coming out, regardless of their disapproval?



Ive been with my girl for almost 2 years and i was almost totally convinced my mother knew but she lets her sleep over and such, so i guess its not definate. I know it wont come to a surprise to her when i come out, and i was sort of plannign to next year when i take my gf to prom, but im no longer so sure i should.



i have lots of gay friends and my mom is really accepting about them but recently she said that she would never go to a gay wedding and think they shouldnt be allowed because that, in a way, is like saying its ok to be gay (*sigh* christianity). anyway shes totally wrong, i know, but it just scared me.

maybe its better just to forget about telling her now, since ill be moving out in a year anyway, plus im not ready for anyone else in my family to know anyway?

[Iamyouknowyours]

Only you can know when the time is right, but if I were you I would probably wait until I had moved out. That way you will be financially independent if your mother indeed turns out to be disaproving. On the other hand it's a good sign that she is ok with your gay friends, even if not 100 percent accepting. But accepting yout friends and accepting her own daughter are going to be two vastly different things. I'd recommend waiting a little bit, but more power to you, whenever you decide to come out, and congrats on your two year relationship with your girlfriend. That's awesome.

[Boys In Bikinis]

thanks alot for your advice.



not to say the obvious or anything but this board is great. nohting is better than this sort of blind support and understanding.

[AGirlInterrupted2]

I loved Willow and Tara for the record. I know it's off topic but still oh so true.

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by buffyanne96

---

Hi everyone,

I'm Ali, and I am fairly new to this... and also am bi-curious. I am so confused. Is it natural for me to feel this way?

[maudmac]

Hey, Ali. Welcome to the Kitten!



Sure, of course it's natural for you to feel that way. There's nothing wrong or unnatural about thinking you might like girls, too. Whatever you feel, however attracted you are to women and/or men, it's normal and good for you to go ahead and let yourself feel what you feel.

---

Walking in space we find the purpose of peace. The beauty of life you can no longer hide.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open. Our eyes are open, our eyes are open wide, wide, wide. -- Walking In Space

[buffyanne96]

Thanks for the welcome... I guess I do feel kinda unnatural right now, and like I can't tell anyone my feelings. It is good to be able to post here.

Edited by: maudmac  at: 9/12/03 3:22 am

[xita]

The only thing unatural is to fool your nature and force it into what it isn't. Just relax right now, you are young and it could be you like both girls and boys or maybe just boys or maybe just girls. It's ok to feel your feelings right now, things will become clearer. Then it's a matter of you living with who you are. And this board is here to help and many other places are out there to help you with that if need be.



But right now, don't feel a pressure to choose or to subvert feelings, feel them and things will sort themselves out.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Nikkii]

Reading the first few pages of this post and everyone's coming out stories, I figured I should add mine...



I'm 18 and have known since I was very young that I'm gay, although when I was younger, I didn't understand what it was. I was always helping out the prettier, younger female teachers at Primary School, often becoming friends with them. Then there's other little things, like being totally obsessed with the pink Power Ranger! Hehe



When I started High School...it was still female teachers I found myself attracted to...as well as a few TV personalities and pop stars. Although, I used to pretend to my friends that I 'fancied' a certain male teacher. As I got older, about 14 or 15, I realised that I was actually a lesbian, and I hated it. I felt like it couldn't be more or something and I was scared. I remember I was a big fan of Steps at the time...oh the embarrassment...I pretended to my friends that I was in love with H and Lee, rather than Faye and Claire...and went out with numerous boys in the school, if not for more than a few weeks. I decided I was going to pretend to be straigh for the rest of my life, get married, have kids, etc.



Towards the end of high school, aged about 15 or 16 I was dating this guy called paul, and I was so proud because he was this athletic rugby player and all...although inside I was sick of it after a week, we were together for months...until he cheated on me with a model. That was it, he was my last boyfriend.



I then started college, and met my best friend Laura...after talking a lot about our favourite band, Steps, I got the feeling that she fancied Claire too, so one day, I told her I was bi, and my suspicions became reality when she told me she was too. As I got such a good reaction from her, I sort of went on an outing spree! I was telling all my freinds and colleagues, as well as my cousin who was 15 and my other cousin who was 32, and every single one of them was supportive.



Now, as it was dawning on me that I should be out as a lesbian, rather than still pretending I liked guys too, me and Laura started to like each other, as well as us both liking one of the teachers, Sarah. I came out as a lesbian, to all the people who I had told I was bi, and still, I had everyones support! At this time, me and Laura flirted like hell, even getting into a compromising situation on her bed, it was clear to both of us that nothing was ever going to happen, as we both knew that being bi, was just experimentation for her. In the meantime, I had developed a friendhsip with Sarah, during which we e0mailed, talked after class, and even flirted. She was always there to help, and I had my suspicions that she might be bi (later confirmed when my bets mate saw her kissing Helen, the PE teacher, when she was out shopping!), which helped with the advice and all.



Then came the time to tell my mum...I live with my dad also, but we're not very close at all and I haven't yet told him. So, I went to Sarah for advice yet again, and she helped. I told me mum in probably the worst way. She was moaning at me for being on the internet too much and asked me why. I snapped back with "Because I want to talk to other people who are gay like me!" and stormed off to college! On arrival I went straight to see Sarah. I told her what had happened and she was hugging me and I felt so proud, and relieved! My mum was NOT happy at first, then kept saying it was a phase. So I avoided talking about it with her, and she guessed I had a thing for Sarah.



Anyways, time went on and I told Sarah how I felt, her being a teacher and all, it didn't go down too well...we didn't talk for a while but we soon buillt up our friendship again.



During my last few months at college, I met a girl on the internet, Saz. After being her online gf for 5 months, I jetted off to Belgium, where she lived, to see her for the valentines weekend. Putting it briefly, I lost my virginity to her and regretted it. She was just experimenting too. I find it hard meeting peopl in life, so had a few brief internet romances, and dated a girl in America, who is now and always will be my best friend, and the one person I would trust with my life. I also dated Gemma, as a few of you know.



Then I met a girl near where I live, also called Sarah...I fell in love...well I thought I did, turned out it was just lust, and she was too immature and messed up to get involved with. I was her little lapdog and she knew it, and man did she play on it!



Well, 2 years on, my mum has accepted I'm gay, and has met both Sarah and another of my exes, Jen. She doesn't like her nose to be rubbed in the fact that I'm gay, but she generally accepts it. I've vowed to put all bad relationships and internet relationships behind me, and am going to see my baby Gemma next month! So fingers crossed, life is getting good!



Nikkii

xXx

________________________



Tara: Breakfast will make all things better



Willow: Oooo pancakes can go in bellies!

Edited by: Nikkii at: 9/12/03 3:49 pm

[Aquarius Dreamer]

Hi, my name's Melissa and I'm new around here.

Since about the middle of last year, I thought I was bi. I didn't know anyone who was openly gay or bi at my school, and I felt really isolated.(thank god for Amber and Aly) I mean, I still had friends and all, I just felt like I was hiding this terrible secret that everyone was going to find out about at any second. There was this part of me I couldn't share with my friends. I felt like everyone would abandon me.



Well, I started high school five weeks ago, and things have been going great. I have awesome new friends, and I came out as bi to a few of them and they took it great.(not surprising, considering I knew that I already knew that 2 out of the 4 people I told were bi and another came out as bi to me right after I came out to her! )



Things were wonderful, but lately I've been very confused. First I wondered if I was really straight, not bi. Now, I'm wondering if maybe I'm a lesbian. I still have crushes on a few guys, but not in RL. They're characters in books(yes, I get crushes on imaginary people)/movies, or actors. I've only had about two or three real crushes on guys in RL, and the latest one was over a year ago. On the other hand, I developed about 4 crushes in the first two weeks at my new school. Now, grant it, it's an all girl school, but when I recently went to a football game I noticed that, well, I didn't really care about the guys. I was more interested in my (totally straight, but very accepting ) friend I was with. Um, so I guess my question is this: can I be mostly lesbian? I don't want to say that I'll never be with a guy, but right now I want a girlfriend. Would I still be considered bi? And how do I tell my friend from my old school that I'm bi/lesbian? I know she would freak out if I came out to her. I sometimes wonder if she knows that one of the other girls she hangs out with was bi, too. That was more than one question, but anyway, I guess I just needed to tell this to someone, and I don't really feel like I can talk about it to my friends, so I posted it here.



Edit: Ooh yay! my avatar works!

"When I was four years old they tried to test my IQ, they showed me this picture of three oranges and a pear. They asked me which one is different and does not belong, they taught me different was wrong."

~Ani Difranco

Edited by: Aquarius Dreamer  at: 9/12/03 4:52 pm

[nothingman]

Hi to all who read this

At this point I am not sure what else to do and I have had a very rough night so far. Right now I am feeling a bit alone, confused and sad....all the things I know others on this board have felt or might be feeling...so maybe someone can help me.

My name is Dayna, I am 22 and I am in a situation probably many others have been in before me...but it still sucks all the same. To make a long story short...I feel in love with my straight best friend about four years ago...and since then things have been hard.... I know I am not alone here...but sometimes I feel that way. I have had a hard time figuring out who I am and I am not even sure I know yet. She has made it clear that she wants me in her life...but sometime it hurts so much I don't know if I can do it anymore. The situation got a little more complicated when she started to date my cousin and developed feelings for him that she couldn't for me...it hurt. This has been a continual source of pain for the greater part of the last six months. Tonight she told me that if she could feel the way I feel about her, she would. I couldn't believe she said that to me...and right now I wish she hadn't. I don't know what to do or how to feel all I really know is that I am tired. I don't have many people who I can talk to that know what it is like to feel these feelings and I know that there are plenty of kittens out there who do. I could use some advice or a few words of encouragement if you have any to share. Thanks for reading.

-Dayna

-------------------------------


Willow: You two are the two who are the two. I'm the other one. (The Yoko Factor)

[SJ]

I would say hang in there.

I can understand the pain you're feeling.

Maybe widen your social circle a little,that's what I did.

Hope things get better for you.

Take Care.

[xita]

I think that's really good advice, widen your social circle. It's time to figure out who you are aside from this girl. Believe her when she tells you she can't. It's highly unlikely that will ever change, even though she may string you along. She's not a mean person, it's just hard to let go of someone who is devoted to you.



If it ends up you like girls, or you like both, it's a smart thing to find people who realize that as well, that way you are likely to find love with someone who can return your feelings.



I think you owe it to yourself to really look around and consider your options, and find out who you are or could be.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by ambersagoddess

---

I have a problem and I figured this would be the best place to ask for advice. Lately, everytime I'm around my best-friend I have these odd feelings, and I often find myself waking up from interesting dreams starring she and I. I find that I'm not as attracted to my boyfriend as I used to be. My eyes have been wandering, towards women. I don't know how to come to terms with myself. I've tried to ingore my feelings but it seems to be getting harder and harder to do so. Telling my mum is out of the question due to fears of her kicking me out of the basement. So here I am, 13 years old and attracted to women in ways that confuse me and frighten me to serious degrees. Help?



-Rei

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by Tempest Duer

---

It sounds to me like you're going through some serious, but relatively typical, adolescent turmoil. But coming here was probably a good thing, because there are plenty of understanding people here.



You might be gay. You might not. It's really too early to tell, but you aren't doing yourself any favors by trying to ignore the way you feel. Even if you just admit to yourself that you might like girls, you'll be doing yourself a big favor.



I'm sorry to hear that you can't talk to your mother, but try to find somebody you know who you can trust. I don't know who that might be, but find somebody if you can. If you can't, and need someone to talk to, you're more than welcome to drop me a line. My e-mail address is in my profile.

[Aquarius Dreamer]

ambersagoddess, you sound exactly like me a year ago. (with the absence of a boyfriend. ) The best thing you can do is just except it. I didn't think there was anyone I could tell, however if you have someone you think you can talk to , then do so. Feel free to e-mail me or im me on aim. My sn's easilyamused1444. And just keep in mind that everything gets better during high school.

"When I was four years old they tried to test my IQ, they showed me this picture of three oranges and a pear. They asked me which one is different and does not belong, they taught me different was wrong."

~Ani Difranco

[ambersagoddess]

Thanks for you guys' help, I appreciate it. I've got to get something off my chest right now. Aside from my boyfriend (with whom my relationship is drifting down the drain) I have no friends at my new highschool and I got in a fight today over the lesbian/gay issue in my creative thinking/writing english class. I was having a goodnaturedly fun time showing off a new picture I had gotten of Amber Benson and repeating "9.9 out of ever 10 Americans don't get the daily recomended amout of Amber Benson." Everything was going great until some kids started picking on me as well as on Amber. Saying I had a crush on her (though, I fear that I really do) and making inapropriate comments on her appearence. I, being the vicious Amberholic I am, stood up for her. Explaining as calmly as I could that I admired her for her talents as well as her stunning beauty and the fact that she has saved many people from committing sucicide over their sexual confusion because of her role as Tara. This got everyone in a big discussion about the ethics of homo, hetro, and bi sexuality. As I continued to stand up for the losing team people started getting huffy and in the end there was a mild scuffle between me and three or four 'Amber dissers' Luckly no one got in serious trouble, just a few 'talking-tos.' Now a little less than half the school knows who I am, and who Amber is (good for publicity I guess.) Needless to say I'm pissed!!! Sorry, had to vent.

Edited by: ambersagoddess at: 9/29/03 5:18 pm

[angelofinsanity]

ambersagoddess- i find what u did was great and your courage very admirable, not alot of ppl would stand up for Amber (or anyone really) and the 'losing team' like you did, esp in a new school and infront of a class etc.

it's a crazy world we live in, so don't take these homophobes and 'amberdissers' seriously, as on behalf of kittens and anybody else: THANK YOU for doing what you did.



STacy

[ambersagoddess]

No one messes with Amber when I'm around... Or I'll beat their heads in with this mallet





I would stand up for Amber and you guys with my life if the chance ever arose.



Goddess Bless Amber Benson



peace and love



-Rei

[xita]

You are very brave, I would not have been as courageous especially at your age. It took me till I was 17 to stand up to my friend and tell her I wouldn't tolerate any gay jokes.



You have great courage and that will help you on your way as you figure out your life. Take your time and fear not the answer will come, just feel your feelings.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[nothingman]

SJ and Xita

Thanks for the advice and the words of encouragement. It is nice to hear that someone else gets what I am feeling.

I took off to San Diego for a couple of days to clear my head. Things are ok, not great, but I am hanging in there and now I have to decide what to do next.

My plans are to move to LA this coming November so I am hoping that change will help. I know I need to get out there and meet new people, it's just hard for me...I am kinda shy.

Once again thank you

-Dayna

-------------------------------


Willow: You two are the two who are the two. I'm the other one. (The Yoko Factor)

Edited by: nothingman  at: 9/30/03 1:49 am