GLBT News

[skittles]

Hard Words for a Bookshop - January 7, 2003



NYTimes article (free membership required)



By MARC SANTORA



The Oscar Wilde Bookshop in Greenwich Village, the oldest gay and lesbian bookstore in the country and one of only two left in the city, will close its doors for business by the end of the month, the end of an institution that many say was at the heart of the gay movement.



"I have lost a quarter of a million dollars over the last six years," its owner, Larry Lingle, said yesterday. "And I just can't take it anymore."



Mr. Lingle, who purchased the store in 1996, a few years after the original owner, Craig Rodwell, died of stomach cancer, described the decision as painful, saying he had bought the shop as much because of its permanent role in the modern gay rights movement in New York as to sell books. "If I had not purchased it, it would have been put out of business," he said.



Opened in 1967, the Oscar Wilde Bookshop was originally on Mercer Street before it moved to its current home at 15 Christopher Street.



Deacon Maccubbin, the owner of Lambda Rising bookstore in Washington D.C., said Mr. Rodwell had opened the store for a simple reason: books about gay and lesbian life could not be found.



"He also wanted to give people a warm and comfortable place where they could be around their culture with people who understood them," he said. Mr. Rodwell placed a "Gay is Good" sticker in the window under a sign that read, "A bookshop for the homophile movement."



In the bookshop's early years, the people who came into the store were as likely to be interested in the politics swirling around the gay rights movement as they were in the 25 or so titles that stocked the shelves. It was from behind his counter at the shop that Mr. Rodwell helped organize a march in 1970 to commemorate the anniversary of the Stonewall Riots, which marked the beginning of the gay rights movement.



Mr. Maccubbin said the Wilde shop was the inspiration for his store and many others.



Ed Hermance, the owner of Giovanni's Room, a gay bookstore in Philadelphia, said "Oscar Wilde was absolutely the model for this store." He said that the first three years Giovanni's Room was open, Mr. Rodwell would help the shop buy its books and even drive them to Philadelphia.



"The store functioned something like a community center when there was no community center," said Kim Brinster, the current manager of Oscar Wilde. "When you came out, people said you had to come to the Oscar Wilde bookstore," she said.



In March 2001, A Different Light, a gay bookstore in the Chelsea section, closed. After the Oscar Wilde Bookshop shutters its door, only Creative Visions on Hudson Street will be left.



The large book chains are frequently cited in the downfall of stores like the Oscar Wilde Bookshop. "The impact of the chain bookstores has been large," said Mr. Lingle. "They cherry-pick us. They get the benefit of the best sellers so they pick up the best sales."





Ms. Brinster said it was part of the changing character of Manhattan. "It's all Starbucks, the Gap and Barnes & Noble," she said.



Owners of other gay bookshops say they are floored by the fact that Manhattan cannot seem to support a gay bookstore.





"It's sad that the New York community is unwilling or unable to support a gay and lesbian bookstore," said Mr. Maccubbin.



Some said that the failure of the gay bookstores in Manhattan was actually a sign of the gay movement's success in making gay issues mainstream, which would be in keeping with what Oscar Wilde wrote in "Lady Windemere's Fan": "In this world there are only two tragedies. One is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it."



Ms. Brinster suggested that location was a big part of the problem. Fewer people were walking and shopping on her block on Christopher Street, a trend nearby merchants say they also see. Greg Vernice, who works at Amalgamated, a home furnishings store next door to the bookshop, said his store would also be closing at the end of the month.



Yesterday afternoon, there were hundreds of books lining the shelves compared with the two dozen that were stocked in 1967. There is no more sticker on the window declaring "Gay is Good."



Mr. Lingle said he expected the bookshop's last business day to be Jan. 19. Ms. Brinster, resigned to the store's fate, said simply, "It just shouldn't happen, especially in a town like New York."

skittles



"I love the with a love I seemed to lose With all my lost saints, - I love thee with the breath,

Smiles, tears, of all my life!! - and, if God choose, I shall but love thee better after death."

-- Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Sonnet XLIII, from the Portuguese

[skittles]

I read the Detroit Free Press alot, but I really liked this column from today's paper. So, I'm sharing... as usual...





SUSAN AGER: Throw words back before they can hurt



January 21, 2003



BY SUSAN AGER

FREE PRESS COLUMNIST



Our friend Kathy skipped out of a college faculty meeting early in order to help her sister move into her new Novi home.



Kathy's sister has multiple sclerosis. She's not able to do the running around necessary on moving day to make sure young, husky men put every sofa and sideboard where they belong.



Kathy is, and did. She shook the hands of the three movers, introduced herself as the home owner's sister and, in effect, took charge.



Kathy claims she's shy, but she's the most dynamic person we know, quick to laugh. On that moving day, everybody behaved like good buddies -- until Kathy's sister couldn't decide where a sofa and love seat should go.



Kathy, her sister and their mother, in her 70s, stood in the living room debating the question. The movers stood with their arms crossed, awaiting instruction.



Finally, guy said: "What we need is a fruit to make this interior design decision!"



He and his buddies laughed. None of the women did.



Kathy, our shy friend Kathy, looked them in the eyes and announced:



"I happen to be a fruit, and I would appreciate not hearing any more comments like that today."



Can you imagine?



"I happen to be a fruit."



Can you imagine having to tell people who think you're one of them that, in fact, you're not?

Bold talk



Kathy might have kept quiet, to keep things easy, then at the end of the day muttered to her family about the insensitive lout.



Or, she might have said, "Excuse me, but I am a lesbian woman and am offended by the use of such slurs."



Instead, she boldly said, "I happen to be a fruit," meaning "When you use such words, you're talking about people like me, and you know, you can't be too careful because we're all around you."



Years ago, gay men and women used to say that if only they could all turn purple overnight the world would finally realize how common homosexuality is. After hearing Kathy's story, I thought it might be lots more fun if every gay person at some University of Michigan football game stood up in unison one Saturday to shout together, "I happen to be a fruit!"



Experts would predict that of 100,000 people in the stadium, at least 4,000 and possibly 10,000 would stand, if they had the guts. With time, more gay men and women have found the courage to be who they are, publicly and proudly.

Familiar faces



It's safer than it used to be, although not so safe that Kathy wants her full name in front of every Free Press reader. It has, she says, been about five years since she'd heard such crude talk. And Gallup polling shows two-thirds of Americans believe the nation as a whole is more accepting of homosexuality, in part because we now know of many gay and lesbian people among us: college professors and doctors and lawyers and politicians and football players and movie stars and hairdressers and restaurateurs and car dealers and even guys who move furniture for a living.



Kathy's proclamation filled her sister's empty living room. The mover who had called for a fruit's advice immediately apologized. The day proceeded in good cheer. And when the van was empty and everything in its place, the mover sought out Kathy to tell her again how sorry he was.



She forgave him.



But she also changed him. She's hoping and I'm guessing he'll never again use that word for anything but pears and strawberries, which happen to be fruits, too.



Contact SUSAN AGER at 313-222-6862 or ager@freepress.com.



Detroit Free Press link

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

[tommo]

Oh what a great story; thanks for this Suzy.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[Warduke]

I just read this at Yahoo...

Quote:

---

Lesbian Partner Awarded Sept. 11 Funds



WASHINGTON - A federal fund created to compensate victims of the Sept. 11 attacks has awarded $500,000 to the lesbian partner of a woman who died at the Pentagon (news - web sites), a decision gay rights advocates hailed as a milestone.



Sheila Hein, 51, a civilian Army management analyst who died when a hijacked American Airlines jet slammed into the Pentagon in Arlington, Va., was wearing a gold band given her by Peggy Neff, her partner of 18 years. Another, emerald ring that had been a gift from Neff, was missing from Hein's remains.



"It had been pulverized," Neff wrote in an affidavit filed with her federal claim.



"She was my entire world and my soul mate, my closest confidante and my best friend," Neff added.



Under Virginia laws, Neff was not eligible for state aid. But the head of a Department of Justice fund established after the attacks concluded that Neff was entitled to compensation.



Kenneth Feinberg, special master of the Sept. 11th Victim Compensation Fund, wrote on Nov. 26 that Neff had accepted $557,390.



The letter, released this week by the Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund — which represented Neff — was first reported by the Washington Post.



Neff's lawyers called the decision "a huge step forward for the federal government."



It was unclear whether the decision set a precedent for other partners of those who died in the attacks.

---

---

Mozilla : One Browser to Rule Them All.

[tommo]

My goodness. This is a step forward. Thanks Bri.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[xita]

I hope it sets a precedent, that's awesome news.

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.

Tallulah Bankhead

[Amymlc]

Hey, I just got this from my school listserve.





Bush Aide on "homosexual deathstyle" & "gay plague"

---------------------

1. BUSH AIDE: GAYS HAVE "HOMOSEXUAL DEATHSTYLE"

President Bush's newest appointee to the Presidential Commission on AID,

Jerry Thacker, thinks that gays have a "deathstyle" (instead of a

"lifestyle") and that AIDS is a "gay plague." He also has compared being

gay to incest and bestiality. The Washington Post wrote an incredible

front-page story today about this jerk. It is truly a horrendous,

horrendous, horrendous story. (Even more interesting, all of this guys'

quotes have now disappeared from his Web site and from Bob Jones'

University's Web site.)



Yep, our president is appointing anti-gay bigots to the Presidential Panel

on AIDS. And oh yeah, the appointee is part of the "ex-gay" movement as

well, pushing religious right's bogus lie that gays can "find Jesus" and

become straight. Somebody certainly does need to find Jesus, but it's not

us.



Read the Post article here:

www.washingtonpost.com/wp...Jan22.html



You can read more follow up on this issue in this Blog:

atrios.blogspot.com/

Edited by: Amymlc at: 1/24/03 7:12:22 am

[xita]

I am sure that wasn't an ignorant appointment, I am sure he knew this guy's positions and beliefs and that's why he was chosen for that position. Disgusting.

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.

Tallulah Bankhead

[tommo]

Seems to me that the US Govt. gives with one hand and takes with the other. They really do need to make their minds up about what message they want to give, especially as this story comes hot on the heels of the award given to the gay partner of a woman killed at the Pentagon. I don't understand that kind of reasoning. This is just ridiculous and horrendous.



And I also take personal offence at the whole "finding Jesus" thing. Why must people like this idiot automatically assume that all gays and lesbians are devil worshipping heathens? Again, it shows an entire ignorance towards information and logical thinking. But then, I've never found the US Govt. particuarly strong on that tack. Sorry.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[skittles]

I had a really difficult time accessing the washington post article, (blue page with black lettering & netscape7 didn't like it either, for some logical reason) so I am posting it here:



washingtonpost.com

AIDS Panel Choice Wrote of a 'Gay Plague'

Views of White House Commission Nominee Draw Criticism



By Ceci Connolly

Washington Post Staff Writer

Thursday, January 23, 2003; Page A01





The Bush administration has chosen Jerry Thacker, a Pennsylvania marketing consultant who has characterized AIDS as the "gay plague," to serve on the Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV and AIDS.



Next week, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson is scheduled to swear in several new commission members. They include Thacker, a former Bob Jones University employee, who says he contracted the AIDS virus after his wife was infected through a blood transfusion.



The 35-member commission, which makes recommendations to the White House on AIDS prevention, is the latest incarnation of a panel that has existed since the Reagan administration. Earlier commissions issued reports strongly critical of the national response to AIDS, and helped to nudge the government and the pharmaceutical industry toward greater action.



In his speeches and writings on his Web site and elsewhere, Thacker has described homosexuality as a "deathstyle" rather than a lifestyle and asserted that "Christ can rescue the homosexual." After word of his selection spread among gays in recent days, some material disappeared from the Web site. Earlier versions located by The Washington Post that referred to the "gay plague," for instance, were changed as of yesterday to "plague."



Administration health officials speaking on condition of anonymity confirmed Thacker's appointment. They said he was part of a diverse group that includes a member of the board of directors of the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay and lesbian advocacy group; an AIDS adviser to the World Bank; and a state public health officer.



Thacker, one official said, "has a very powerful and tragic personal story and an ability to reach out to an audience we couldn't reach in the process."



Thacker's assistant said yesterday he would not speak to reporters until he is sworn in. HHS spokesman Bill Pierce and Patricia Ware, executive director of the commission, declined to comment publicly.



"This individual is an extremist ideologue who persecutes and demeans an entire class of people impacted by this disease," said David Smith, spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign. "That type of person has no business advising the president of the United States on how the government should address the epidemic."



Carl Schmid, a Republican gay activist who worked on President Bush's 2000 campaign, said he is disappointed and frustrated that HHS disregarded warnings that Thacker's selection would overshadow the commission's valuable work.



"We need to have a scientific-based approach to the problems of HIV-AIDS and not this radical agenda he's pushing," Schmid said. Aside from the harshly anti-gay tone of Thacker's rhetoric, Schmid said, his major objection to Thacker is his aggressive lobbying for abstinence-until-marriage education.



"Abstinence-until-marriage does not help anyone in the gay community, because we can't get married," he said. "If you are a gay youth, who is addressing your concerns?"



Thacker's biography on the Web site of the Scepter Institute, a nonprofit organization that sells religious-based AIDS material, indicates he is a Bob Jones University graduate and was a "member of the university faculty for seven years." Bush caused a stir in the 2000 presidential campaign when he spoke at the South Carolina university, which until recently banned interracial dating and has been accused of anti-Catholic attitudes.



In September 2001, Thacker returned to his alma mater to give two "Chapel Messages." The speeches, summarized on the university Web site, focused on the "sin of homosexuality" and his family's struggle with AIDS.



"When he and his wife discovered in 1986 that they had contracted HIV, the most horrible thought was that it was a disease connected with the sin of homosexuality," according to the summary. "They didn't want anyone to think they were homosexual because they knew what the Bible said about homosexuality."



Thacker's beliefs on homosexuality are known as "reparative therapy," a philosophy that considers homosexuality aberrant behavior that can be modified through religious faith. Professional organizations such as the American Psychological Association say that approach has no medical or scientific basis.



The Bob Jones summary of Thacker's speeches said: "Homosexuality is not inborn biologically, just as incest and bestiality are not inborn. Studies have show that thousands of homosexuals have been set free from this sin."



University spokesman Jonathan Pait said Thacker was not a professor but ran a radio station at the school. While the university "would not get involved" in the controversy, Pait, who knows Thacker personally, said he is "a man who does have great compassion for those who are suffering from AIDS and HIV."



Thacker's promotional materials stress the need for compassion toward all people with AIDS, and they urge churches to think "Christianly" about people with AIDS and to hate the sin, but love the sinner.



"Be compassionate to those caught up in this sinful deathstyle," the Bob Jones summary said. "Only when homosexuals know it is a sin can they repent."



The commission has several prominent conservatives known for their promotion of abstinence-only programs.



Smith, of the Human Rights Campaign, said that although he does not always agree with the panel, Thacker's views are "more egregiously right-wing" than those of other members, and that the deletions from Thacker's Web site represent "an attempt to make him more palatable."



The commission's co-chairman, Tom Coburn, said he knows little about Thacker except that he is infected with the AIDS virus. Coburn said Thacker's views on homosexuality were irrelevant to the commission's efforts to stop the epidemic.



Co-chairman Louis W. Sullivan, the HHS secretary under President George H.W. Bush, said he only recently became aware of "the Thacker controversy" and wanted to speak to him before commenting.



"Clearly, this is a virus that affects our general population," he added. "It is clearly not something that is only an issue for the gay community. It is an issue for the heterosexual community."



Researcher Karl Evanzz contributed to this story.



© 2003 The Washington Post Company



link to readable version

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

[mscheckmate]

Here's an update on the Thacker nomination:





Bush Choice Withdraws From AIDS Panel



.c The Associated Press



WASHINGTON (AP) - A Christian activist chosen by the Bush administration for an AIDS advisory panel withdrew his name under pressure Thursday after criticism of his characterization of the disease as the ``gay plague.''



The administration had asked Jerry Thacker to serve on the Presidential Advisory Commission on HIV and AIDS. He was to be sworn in along with other new commission members next week by Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson.



In a letter to Thompson, Thacker, a Pennsylvania marketing consultant, said his statements had been misconstrued but he nonetheless was no longer willing to accept the appointment.



``I feel I must withdraw my name from consideration to serve at this time due to my and my family's personal concern about my ability to be effective with the council given the current controversy,'' he wrote.



White House press secretary Ari Fleischer issued a stern rebuke of Thacker's remarks.



``The views that he holds are far, far removed from what the president believes,'' Fleischer said. ``The president has a total opposite view. ... The president's view is that people with AIDS need to be treated with care, compassion.''



Thompson said he had never met Thacker and was not familiar with his views until very recently.



``When you have this many appointments to make, some controversial ones are going to get through,'' he said. ``This one was controversial and the gentleman withdrew his name.''



Thacker contracted the AIDS virus in 1986 after his wife was infected during a blood transfusion received during childbirth. Their daughter born of that pregnancy also is HIV-positive.



That experience led the Bob Jones University graduate to found the Scepter Institute to promote his workshops, books and videos on the topic of AIDS.



But the content of his speeches and writings led to severe criticism from gay rights groups and others when the news of his selection as a White House adviser surfaced. The 35-member AIDS commission advises the White House on AIDS prevention and treatment policy.



``His brand of reactionary gay-bashing has no place in public policy and government,'' said Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., a Democratic presidential hopeful. Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle said ``his offensive public statements about homosexuality indicate a disturbing bias that is completely at odds with the role the advisory commission should play.''



At one point, Thacker's biography on the Scepter Web site referred to AIDS as the ``gay plague.'' It now calls AIDS a ``plague.'' In his letter, Thacker said he now uses the term only to describe the disease's spread in the United States from mainly affecting gays to all segments of the population.



The Web site also describes Thacker's thoughts when he learned of his infection. ``AIDS was something that bad people had to worry about. Not Christians. Not the church,'' it says. ``HIV was something shameful - God's judgment on immoral behavior.''



Like the Bush administration, he promotes abstinence from sex as the way to prevent HIV infection. ``For the unmarried, the only truly 'safe sex' is not to have sex,'' Thacker has written. He also has described homosexuality as a sin that can be cured by Christianity.



In September 2001, Thacker returned to his alma mater to give two ``Chapel Messages.''



``Be compassionate to those caught up in this sinful deathstyle. Let them know you care, but at the same time let them know homosexuality is a sin. Most people find the homosexual behavior vile and disgusting. Only when homosexuals know it is sin can they repent,'' said a summary now deleted from the university Web site.



Thacker said he asked for the summaries to be removed because they were written by someone else and ``have been used to create impressions that are just not accurate,'' though he did not specify what was inaccurate.



``I do not consider myself anti-gay,'' he wrote to Thompson. ``I am, however, anti HIV/AIDS. The three infected people in our family ... would not wish this disease on any other human being.''



David Smith of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group, applauded the news that Thacker would not join the panel but said Bush administration AIDS policies still fall far short.



``The underlying problem continues to remain with this administration's approach to HIV and AIDS,'' Smith said. ``Their obsessive focus on abstinence as the solitary mechanism to prevent the transmission of HIV is not based in sound science.''



Meanwhile, Thompson on Thursday announced the new members of the council, minus Thacker. The group includes state and local government AIDS officials, a member of the board of governors of the Human Rights Campaign and an adviser to the World Bank on AIDS prevention and treatment in China.







01/24/03 09:18 EST



Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

"I really, really love giving you a hard time. I'm starting to think of it as foreplay." Mrs. Mscheckmate

[La]

ugh. just when something positive happens, something negative has to come on top of it. stupid government.

~La



"A science-fiction movie? I think I have made a science-fiction movie:

Chasing Amy. Because you go ask any lesbian--that'll never happen."

~Kevin Smith

[skittles]

well, at least thacker is out... for now & hopefully goes where he can do little, if any damage.

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

[Penrose Orleans]

"I am not anti-gay"... sure, Mister, everyone believes you... now just shuffle on back to Bob Jones and talk about the homosexual 'deathstyle'... hoo boy. My first reaction to this was (after the "This makes me sick!"): "If he's going to preach that my lifestyle is a horrendous sin, he should at least be clever about it! DEATHstyle? !"... then I got sad again. -Nora

"Fear prophets...and those prepared to die for the truth, for as a rule they make many others die with them, often before them, at times instead of them." -Umberto Eco

[DaffyQDuck]

Going Behind the Back

College Recruiters Raise Issue of Sexual Orientation

www.washingtonpost.com/wp...Jan23.html



[didn't work the first & 2nd time--hope this does]



The Post had this a couple days ago: When a member of the Gay & Lesbian Activists Alliance wrote a letter to the Washington Times, his reference to 'gay' was changed to homosexual. According to the Washington magazine Metro Weekly, letters editor Matthew Rarey told Rick Rosendall in an email: "Per The Times' policy against Orwellian abuse of the English language, the euphemism 'gay' is not used to describe the homosexual lifestyle." ..."we've used 'homosexual' for years, just like we've used 'black' for years instead of 'African American.'.....

It wasn't our world anymore, they made it theirs and they had fun - Willow

Edited by: DaffyQDuck at: 1/24/03 4:41:25 pm

[emma peel]

``The views that he holds (Thacker) are far, far removed from what the president believes,'' Fleischer said. ``The president has a total opposite view. ... The president's view is that people with AIDS need to be treated with care, compassion.''

------------------------------------------------

Ok, so exactly "who" in the Bush "administration" was the stupid jerk who apponted Thacker in the first place? Did they think people would be so stupid to accept this without speaking up?

Crap, this has given me a headache, even though he withdrew.

Thank god for the internet and the rapid dissemination of information when something like this pops us.

Janice

Edited by: emma peel at: 1/24/03 5:16:52 pm

[skittles]

Kittens, I didn't know about this game. (I'm not into "shoot 'em up" style games since Castle Wolfenstein was on the Atari 800) And, Dr G, at least someone in your neighborhood is watching out for us.



From CNN News



Activist: Ban gay-shooting game



Thursday, January 23, 2003 Posted: 3:36 PM EST (2036 GMT)



AMSTERDAM, Holland (Reuters) -- A Dutch gay activist is fighting to outlaw the import of a U.S. computer game in which the player can shoot homosexuals, junkies, dogs and cats.



Henk Krol, editor of the leading Dutch gay newspaper, has asked prosecutors to start court proceedings and is lobbying parliamentarians to outlaw the game, called "Postal 2."



"It is disgusting. In the Netherlands we have anti-discrimination laws to protect people from discrimination based on sexual preference and that makes it easier to do something," Krol said on Thursday.



Postal 2, produced by Arizona-based Running with Scissors, is due to become available in the Netherlands in late March.

'Not anti-gay'



Vince Desi, who runs Running with Scissors, said the game did not discriminate against homosexuals.



"It's definitely not anti-gay. You know what? It's a game -- get over it," Desi said.



Desi said the player can shoot gay people but does not have to do so, and does not win any points for shooting anyone.



"In the game, the player plays the role of a character called The Postal Dude. He lives in a town where there are all kinds of people, white, black, skinny, fat, straight and gay. You can play the game in a passive role without killing anyone," Desi said.



"We are not political," he added.



Postal banned in Australia



Postal 2 is a new version of the firm's earlier game "Postal." That game has been banned in Australia, but Krol said it was widely sold in Dutch toy stores.



The target of that game was to eliminate hostile elements and unarmed civilians in city streets, parks and suburbs using a variety of weapons. The player could exit the game by "committing suicide."



Krol says he is not certain the authorities will be able to prevent Dutch residents from buying the game from the company's Web site, but hopes his campaign to prevent it being sold in toy stores will make buyers aware of the game's content.



"A lot of these games are being bought by parents and grandparents and one of our goals is to get people to understand what they are buying," Krol said.



Desi said he did not believe a ban on selling the game in the Netherlands would apply to Internet sales.



"I don't think anything would prevent people from buying it on the Internet," he said.

(end of article)

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

[Penrose Orleans]

Ohhhhh, an offensive, horrifying game made in Arizona... well, knock me over with a feather... I feel so ashamed for my home state... or maybe just for me for living in it (part-time, now, though!).

"Fear prophets...and those prepared to die for the truth, for as a rule they make many others die with them, often before them, at times instead of them." -Umberto Eco

[Amymlc]

Just when I thought it was getting better here in AZ, they go and create a game where you can kill any type of person you don't like, and have to kill yourself to end the game! Yeah....I'd sure want my (future) kids to play that. And people wonder why kids are so messed up these days.... I'm so ashamed to be a part of this world sometimes.

[urnofosiris]

Just got back from a short internetless vacation so I couldn't reply earlier. Skittles, I heard about that game on tv just before I left. Basically the same news you just posted. They said that in the game you can shoot dogs, cats and gay people. They said nothing about there being any other people to shoot at. I wonder how this will end.

As for that person that was going to be nominated on that AIDS advisory panel, I just wonder if he realizes that lesbian sex is safer than straight sex. It's about time homophobia gets included in the next version of the DSM.

-------------------------


Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

[Patches]

Dr G, I think homophobia is included in the DSM. Any of the following fit: Personality disorders (anti-social); Specific Phobia (other specific irrational fears), and isn't there also something in there that deals with repression of natural feelings, oh ya, internalized homophobia. But you are correct, homophobia should have an entry all its own.



BTW, that game is repulsive! Stuff like this makes me sick, it's hard enough dealing with people's attitudes, do they have to package and market it as a "game" as well. I hope those assh*les lose their shirts.

You know I've heard about people like me. But I never made the connection. They walk one road to set them free, And find they've gone the wrong direction. But there's no need for turning back 'cause all roads lead to where I stand. And I believe I'll walk them all No matter what I may have planned

[skittles]

From the NYTimes:



January 29, 2003

Tolerance and Hypocrisy on Gay-Straight Clubs

By MICHAEL WINERIP



ASHLAND, Ky.



A YEAR AGO, a small group of students at Boyd County High School in rural eastern Kentucky asked to form a Gay-Straight Alliance club. They had a sponsor, Kaye King, who is an English teacher and a certified counselor. They did research and learned that there were 1,200 such clubs nationally. Tyler McClelland, a senior, says they just wanted a supportive group, where no one whispered "queer" behind their backs.



School officials turned them down twice. So last fall, these students contacted the American Civil Liberties Union, which wrote a letter to the Boyd superintendent, Bill Capehart, explaining that federal law supported such clubs.



Indeed, in 1984, President Ronald Reagan signed the Equal Access Act, providing that a public school must treat all noncurricular student clubs equally; if a school has one such club, it must welcome all responsible clubs. And Boyd was full of these clubs that met before and after school — including two student Bible clubs, a service club, a chess club and a 4-H club.



Dr. Capehart consulted his insurance carrier and says he was told that if the district was found guilty of bias in barring the club, its legal bills would not be covered by insurance. And so in October, he decided to support the club, which began to meet weekly with 10 to 20 students.



Enter the Rev. Tim York of the Heritage Temple Free Will Baptist Church. Mr. York calls the club "dangerous." He says: "I believe God made male and female. I believe what the Bible says in Romans. I condemn the act of homosexuality." Mr. York is concerned that the club will be used to turn Boyd students into homosexuals. (Mrs. King, the club sponsor, says she has been prohibited from even saying hello to one student whose parents fear he could be turned gay.)



"Homosexuality is a choice people make," Mr. York says. When, occasionally, one of his own members confesses to such feelings, Mr. York recommends hunting deeper for God's grace. "I say you don't open yourself to all urgings; you control them. Just like an alcoholic."



On Veterans Day, Mr. York organized a rally against the club, which attracted 2,000 supporters — a big number in a county of 50,000. There were antihomosexual experts who came in from California and Cincinnati to speak. "Oh it was beautiful," Mr. York recalls. "We honored the veterans, sang a patriotic song or two and pledged the flag."



At this point, the superintendent, Dr. Capehart, began flipping and flopping more than a catfish tossed up on the banks of the Ohio River.



FLIP: In interviews with the establishment press — The Courier-Journal of Louisville, Education Week and with me — he said he supported the club. He said the club was perfectly legal and would have the added benefit of teaching tolerance at school.



FLOP: On Dec. 20, as a way of shutting down the club, Dr. Capehart had every high school club banned.



FLOP: Dr. Capehart was recently interviewed by Bill O'Reilly, Fox's conservative television news superstar. "I would have turned them down," Mr. O'Reilly said, "because I say once you open the door to a club based on sexuality, then you got to have the S&M club, the bigamy club, you know any club." Dr. Capehart said, "That's exactly my point." Mr. O'Reilly blamed the A.C.L.U. for the whole mess. "I call them a fascist organization," he said, "because what they're doing is using terror to further their agenda. Am I right?" Dr. Capehart added, "You are exactly right,"



FLIP: Dr. Capehart recently told me, "The ministers will kill me for saying this, but I do feel there's a place for the club at the school."



Last week, the A.C.L.U. sued to reinstate the club.



A 20-minute drive away, across the river in West Virginia is Huntington High. A year ago, a group there applied to the principal, Jerry Lake, to start a gay-straight club. Mr. Lake describes himself as an "ultraconservative Republican" and says he would never have joined such a club. He told the students they had to get a charter and sponsor, and once they did, he welcomed them.



"We have a history club, Bible club, Teenage Republicans, Teenage Liberals. If they want a club, there's no violence or hatred, why not let them. Statistics show kids involved in clubs are kids who don't drop out." Recalling the reaction to an article about the club in a local newspaper, Mr. Lake said: "I took a few hits. My response was no response. I can't let outsiders interfere."



Irene Ray, an English teacher who is openly gay, is the sponsor. She says most of the 20 club members are straight, and the nice thing for gay members is it gives them a sanctuary where they don't have to come out if they're not ready. Even so, there are gay students who are afraid to join.



"I get contacted by lots of gay students who would like to join," Ms. Ray says. "They'll tell me, `I'm glad you're there. I just can't come out yet.' If a kid asks me about coming out in high school and there's the least chance they'll get kicked out of the house, I say no, it's not worth it, wait. People are so cruel."



She says the students don't need the club to talk about sex; they need to talk about all the emotions and social complications that fill their lives.



Bryan Chinn, a 10th grader, learned the hard way. "In middle school, I was pretty much popular," he says. "Then I came out. Everything changed. It was like I was someone different. It made me mad all the time."



He was living with his grandmother, but says when she found out a few months ago that he is gay, she kicked him out, "threw my clothes out the window." He stayed with friends, dropped out of school, but recently returned. "One of my new goals," Bryan says, "is to make other people understand why I do what I do."



Back on the Kentucky side of the river, Boyd students might not be getting that lesson in tolerance, but they are getting a good lesson in hypocrisy. Though all clubs were to be banned, Dr. Capehart admitted he was trying to keep most of them going by sneaking them into the classroom curriculum. And Kyle Slone, a member of the Christian fellowship club says, "We've continued to meet, in the hallway, before school."

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

[mscheckmate]

Quote:

---

"Homosexuality is a choice people make," Mr. York says. When, occasionally, one of his own members confesses to such feelings, Mr. York recommends hunting deeper for God's grace. "I say you don't open yourself to all urgings; you control them. Just like an alcoholic."

---

Apologies for quoting the post directly above, but Mr. York's comment deserves specific attention.



I am so f***ing tired of gay-bashers who equate homosexuality with alcoholism, as if it were a destructive condition that needs to be controlled, overcome, or healed. Do we need to have a twelve-step program in place to help people control the urge to love, nurture, support, care for, and commit to another human being?



A loving relationship between two people who happen to be of the same gender bears no relation to alcoholism and its consequences, and it's dishonest to make such a comparison.

"I really, really love giving you a hard time. I'm starting to think of it as foreplay." Mrs. Mscheckmate

Edited by: mscheckmate at: 2/1/03 11:15:39 am

[skittles]

mscheckmate, I hesitated posting this news article, (& others) exactly because of comments like that, but it is the truth of what many people are working against. I am just glad that there are schools & administrations (and other people) who don't put obstacles in the paths of others, for whatever reason. I only just wish that there was more cooperation & less resistance... oh, & less stupidity & bigotry.



In a country with free speech, you have a right to show the world how stupid you really are.....

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

Edited by: skittles  at: 2/1/03 12:25:10 pm

[mscheckmate]

skittles, I wasn't criticizing your decision to share that info with us. I appreciated your posting it here. We have to get ignorance and hate out into the open so that we can fight them with everything we have.



I was actually apologizing to the mods, because I believe it's against the FAQ to quote the post directly above. But I was so needing to talk about York's bigoted comments, that I quoted them anyway, even though they were right there in the preceding post.

"I really, really love giving you a hard time. I'm starting to think of it as foreplay." Mrs. Mscheckmate

Edited by: mscheckmate at: 2/1/03 12:30:23 pm

[skittles]

mscheckmate, I knew you weren't criticising me... I was just expressing my dilemma on some of the news stuff that I post.. (I read the news a lot!!) The concern that I was sharing, was that there is so much that has to be done to make it just a little easier on everyone. I applaud the school & community who came out on the side of the 'rightness' of having a gay-straight alliance, while at the same time I don't want to give equal time to the hate-mongerers. And we see too much hate & we hear too many hate-filled words. But the world isn't all blue skies & rainbows & happy songs... the reality is what is out there.. .. unfortunately. and it makes me sad.

skittles



"These woods are lovely, dark, and deep, But I have promises to keep,

And miles to go before I sleep. And miles to go before I sleep."

-- Stopping by the Woods on a Snowy Evening by Robert Frost

[tommo]

In response to that very quote, I'd just like to say that I'm addicted to being gay. I've tried very hard to turn away from the gay influences in my life. But I found myself very worried when I began listening to Kylie on a daily basis. I was also concerned when, on seeing old episodes of Buffy, I was strangely drawn to the redheaded character who, it seemed, was mackin' on a blonde. Regularly.



So you know, unlike my father, who is a recovering alcoholic and stays away from drink, I'm not even attempting the 12 step programme.



Besides, as my dad says, he'll always be an alcoholic. Just like I'll always be gay. Fact of life.



I'm done now. Sorry for ranting.

It's in your eyes, I can tell what you're thinking; my heart is sinking too...It's no surprise, I've been watching you lately; I want to make it with you...

[xita]

I always say , of course it is a choice. I could choose not to be gay and be miserable and unhappy. But heck, I choose to be happy with who I am and love women and share the love inside of me, instead of the contempt and resentment that would build if I lived a lie.

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.

Tallulah Bankhead

[kukalaka]

I thought I'd add some happy news, from CNN:



BRUSSELS, Belgium -- Belgium has become the second country after the Netherlands to legalise same-sex marriages.



The country's lower chamber of parliament late on Thursday voted 91 to 22 in favour of a bill giving gay couples the same legal status as heterosexuals. There were nine abstentions.



However, some politicians criticised the new law for not going far enough because it prevents homosexuals from adopting children.



"Despite the symbolic value of this law and the positive signal it sends to the homosexual community, there remains this regret," a Socialist deputy told a local newspaper. "We have kept a flagrant hypocrisy: a single person can adopt but not a gay couple."



Belgium, whose population of 10 million is 75 percent Roman Catholic, has increasingly broken from its conservative traditions.



The government has legalised so-called mercy killings and decriminalised the possession of cannabis for personal use.



Although the Netherlands has recognised registered gay partnerships since 1998, it only passed laws allowing same-sex couples to marry and adopt children in December 2000.

---

It's one life and there's no return and no deposit. One life, so it's time to open up your closet.

Life's not worth a damn, 'Till you can say, "Hey, world, I am what I am!"

[concrete]

Indeed 99% good news! Personally, I was sure that Belgium would be the second country to follow suit with the Netherlands, but I am sad & dismayed that the adopting of children has been excluded, meaning it’s still not the real deal. Intolerable and well, plain stupid! As pointed out: single people can adopt but not gay couples. Huh? What’s the problem, I ask you......this smells of hypocrisy to the amount of ten. You either grant equal rights or you don’t. But that’s just my opinion. As far as I know (but hey, who am I?) children growing up with gay parents are functioning just fine, thank you very much. Grrrr !

Rant over (well, almost ).

'If you want to reach the well, you're gonna have to swim against the current'