The Trans Thread

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Gatito in the Joan of Arcadia thread.



Last word here, from me, on "gender issues" (if you wanna hear more, please email/EZ-inbox me, or take it to . . . the Trans thread, I guess): I assume . . . no, I believe that gender is a complex social construct for everyone, whether you're gender-queer, gender dysphoric, femme, butch, or just "average male or female." I also believe it is a Good Thing when one is aware of gender as a construct. That doesn't mean that one ever need question their gender identity. However, some of us, like myself, have found it unavoidable to confront the complexity of gender consciously, and question it. Society did that to me. That said, while I regret the shame and ostracism that society inflicted on me, I don't regret that it made me into a person who questions the gender duality we're all indoctrinated into (to wit: as they say, what's the first question people ask about a new baby?).

---

I may be misinterpreting some of what you have said, but if so, you can always set me 'straight'.



I don't quite agree with the statement that gender is a complex social construct for everyone. Most men are born and look like baby boys, they grow up to be men, feel like men and behave in a way that is considered typically male. No problems there for them or society. Most women are born looking like baby girls and they grow up into women, feel like women and behave in a way that is considered typically female. No problems there either. Most of the time it works out fine. I think gender only becomes an issue for those who do not fit neatly into the standard package, but I think we have to make a difference between behavior and gender identity.



A woman can act in a way that may (by whatever society she is living in) be considered non typical female behavior -or rather- male behavior. This does not mean she has problems with her own gender identity, but the people around her may have problems with it. They may assume she is a lesbian, or that she wants to be a man or that every lesbian wants to be a man, even when she identifies as a woman and has no doubts about it and has made that perfectly clear. The issue here would be the way society views and translates her behavior, not the way she feels about herself.



I think the problem may be that gender isn't a complex social construct at all, at least not to most people, it's 'construction' seem very simple: if you are born looking like a baby girl, you will become a woman, act like a woman and you will love a man. If you are born looking like a baby boy you will become a man, act like a man and love a woman. That is what most of us grow up learning right? This is what we are taught in school and by our elders. The problem is that it isn't always that simple. I've said this before, sometimes a woman is a man and man is a woman or both, and vice versa, and sometimes a woman loves a woman or both, and vice versa. Sometimes a woman 'acts' like a man, but she is still a woman, and vice versa.



Because we are not told when growing up that this is the way it can be as well, we have to figure it out for ourselves, and the people around us have to do so as well and not freak out by something that is different from what is expected. That isn't an easy thing to do. An even bigger problem is that some societies or groups of people who have power actively 'teach' these things are wrong.



Society did not force me to question my gender, I did that on my own. I had to figure it out on my own, accept it, fret over it, worry about how people would react. It could have been much easier if, when growing up, I would have been told that people like me exist and that it is ok. I am not saying we should turn the whole world upside down and do away with the whole 'concept' of boy and girl when we are born, I would just really like it if when children are taught the facts of life they are also taught sometimes it can be a little different and that that is ok, if it happens to you it is ok, if it happens to your friend or family it is ok, it is no reason to be afraid or to make laws against it. Just that, nothing 'heavy', just so LGBT people do not have to figure it out on their own and have their friends and family wig out because they have never heard of it, or have been taught it is wrong. So yeah, it would be a very good thing if everyone were made aware of the possible complexity of gender and sexuality.



Until that happens, the media can play a very important part in that, in helping people understand a little more about themselves or others. Unfortunately some movie/TV show makers stick their heads in the ground and pretend what they show does not matter, and they purposely do more harm where there is enough to go around already. It doesn't have to be preachy and saintly, just a fair representation of LGBT people in books and on TV would make life for everyone a lot easier. It helped me, when I came out of my closet there was an MTF transsexual on Big Brother, think of that program what you will, but the fact that she was on it and open about herself, made it easier for me to come out to my friends, family and co-workers, because at least now they knew trans people exist. Btw, that year Big Brother was won by a lesbian, so heh, I bet she helped a few girls by being out in the open (pardon the pun) as well.



Sprhrgrl, what you are doing is very important, and it takes a lot of guts. Good luck to you.

The last mosquito that bit me had to check into the Betty Ford Clinic.

--Patsy Stone

Edited by: DrG at: 10/12/03 4:00 am

[Tempest Duer]

Amen to all you just said, Garfield. I don't fit any standard views... luckily for me, my parents have not kicked my out of the house.

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

[sprhrgrl]

I think that gender is a social construct for everyone in that even if you grow up from a baby girl into a woman, the definition of woman is prescribed by that construct. That might be what GG meant. Maybe.



We had our first trans group meeting today. There were 11 people there (not bad, considering that I put the signs up on Friday) and outlook seems good. Thanks for your good wishes, Garfield and Tempest Duer.



Thanks to all three of you for participating so avidly in this thread. That makes me happy, a lot.

she's my everything

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)

[Gatito Grande]

Bingo, sprhrgrl. And that fact that the girl -> woman or boy -> man often isn't aware of the construct only makes it more insidious.



Good luck on your trans group. Speaking of awareness, I only wish I had been more aware of my gender issues at your age (instead of repressing them for about 30 years), and had a group like yours to process them in.



GG If there's a reason I'm f*cked up, it's this: one of my earliest conscious memories is "Must Not Let Anyone Know I Feel Like a Boy, because it's Baaaaaaaaad." That's a hell of a weight for any little kid to carry, and I'm still dealing w/ the consequences, even 5 years after being "out" to myself about my transgender ID Out

[urnofosiris]

Well you said complex, and it is complex for some people, like transgendered people, but I believe it is pretty straightforward most people, which is fine I think, as long as people realize it can be different as well and that that is fine too.

I read a small blurb in a Dutch paper yesterday that an MTF transsexual who is currently transitioning and who works in a school, was asked/forced to quit her job. Apparently it was too difficult on the kids. What a lovely solution. The odds that even one of those school kids is trans is rather low, but the odds that some of them are gay is rather high, and the message this sends is that if you are 'different' you'd better bloody well hide it. Bleh.

The last mosquito that bit me had to check into the Betty Ford Clinic.

--Patsy Stone

[Gatito Grande]

I really think it's complex for all people, Garfield: that's the objective reality that we're born into. The subjective reality is quite a different matter---that's where the question of awareness comes into play.



In stating that gender is objectively complex, I'm saying no more than that it's human-created system, like "race" or economic class, etc. Our chromosomes may be simply XX or XY (but not always), our gonads, similarly (but again, not always). But even secondary sexual characteristics like facial hair or menstrual bleeding have radically different significations according to human cultural variation. Beyond that (everything else connected to gender, as it effects every other facet of human existence: dress, work, power-status, body image, religion, etc. etc. etc.) are all entirely mediated by culture, w/ our individual experiences adding yet another layer of complexity. The fact that most people probably never consider how their culture(s) influenced their perception of gender---or that, even if they do, they may find it entirely non-problematic---in no way refutes the hypothesis that gender is culturally-determined.



I happen to believe that if *everyone* were more aware of the artificiality of gender---its creation by culture---it would be easier for them to accept those for whom their gender (in a given culture) is problematic (a much larger group than merely the TG community, even as that is expansively defined).



GG And everyone from the Catholic Church to womyn's music festivals might stop obsessing about what's between people's legs already! Out

[xita]

Is it possible that some of us are aware that gender behavior can be affected by society and have analyzed ourselves and decided that our behavior is who we are and or choose to be and that we are more than comfortable in saying that we are female and that is the right choice for us and that we want the term woman to ecompass all forms of feminine and masculine behavior. I can't define woman (society, hormones, my brain, my soul), but I know that I am one and that I would never want to be a man.



I would also say that dismissing what's between people's legs would actually be offensive to people in this very thread.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Tempest Duer]

I don't think it's really possible to define "man" or "woman" in the truest sense of the words... it's a different truth for everyone. I'm not the same man my father is. I wouldn't want to be. I have different views on what it should be... but I'm no philosopher. So I'll shut up now, before I start making any less sense than I already do.

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

[Gatito Grande]

Both possible and probable (in response to your hypothesis, xita). I put a premium on self-identification, whether it's you (whom I assume have XX chromosomes) IDing as a woman, or an MTF (op or not) doing so w/ her XY ones, or a really butch female doing so, even if she could (and/or does) comfortably pass. All of you are "women," if you say you are. I hold that what's between one's legs (on or off one's chest, what kind of hormones in one's body, etc.) is entirely a personal matter. What I mean about not obsessing, is not obsessing about what's between someone else's legs.



GG Then there's the double-standard re surgery: bio female wants massive breast implants "that's her business." Bio female wants massive reduction (to standard male specs) "bring us a letter from your shrink, freak!" Out



Edited for clarity: sorry to leap-frog you, TD!

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 10/14/03 9:31 pm

[maudmac]

Quote:

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Beyond that (everything else connected to gender, as it effects every other facet of human existence: dress, work, power-status, body image, religion, etc. etc. etc.) are all entirely mediated by culture, w/ our individual experiences adding yet another layer of complexity.

---

I'm having an issue with this. I do agree that our respective cultures foist upon us "rules" for what's appropriate for girls/women and boys/men and are often unwilling to accept much deviation from that - and unwilling to accept that people are not always only one or the other.



But I don't accept that every facet of my gender is determined by my culture. No doubt, if I were the product of a radically different culture, I could certainly be a radically different person or woman. But it sounds as though you're saying that everything that makes me a woman is because I was socialized to be this way. And that's just not true. Not all sex differences are the result of socialization. If my culture demanded that I be competitive (as opposed to cooperative), would I be? Not necessarily, as many parents have attempted to make certain their boy children are socialized to be cooperative and that's not always successful.



So, no, I don't agree that gender is entirely a human-created concept. Some of what society thinks of as feminine or masculine traits reflect our hard-wired sex differences; the way our brains are anatomically different. Obviously, it's not black and white; there's no set of neat little boxes we can all be put into based on our sex (female, male, or the larger-than-most-people-realize percentage of the population who fall somewhere between the two), gender identification, sexual orientation, etc. But there are ways that we're different that have less to do with our socialization and more to do with things like our genes, the anatomy of our brains, etc.

---

I have often been adrift, but I have always stayed afloat.    --  David Berry,  The Whales of August

[Gatito Grande]

I'm kinda getting the feeling that the hypothesis of the social construction of gender seems threatening, but I don't see why it should be.



You are what you are (however you ID), no matter how you got there. To say that chromosomes at first cell-division do not inevitably determine/delineate one's over-all concept of one's gender, is in no way to yank the rug out from under anyone's identity in the present. Probably at least 95% of all people unproblematically ID w/ their assigned gender, and that's fine. And of that huge majority, there are wide number of ways that individuals interpret being a man or a woman, and that's fine too.



L'difference? Yes, there are measurable differences between males and females in brain function (to say nothing of height, muscle-mass, etc. etc.!) *on average*. But those average differences are still mediated through culture, as lived in the particularities of individual experience.



I'm a huge believer in subjectivity: there is nothing in GG's universe which is not subject to GG's POV. At the same time, where did that POV come from---how did I get here? Through all kinds of cultural influences, my own nutty parents' child-rearing techniques, my times, and yes, my genes. And, as I was shaped by my world, so everyone else was shaped by theirs: including the way each and everyone of us views our gender.



Maybe arguing that the entire universe is subjective is scary: no objective reality to hang onto, we're all in our own little worlds (w/ our own individual genders). But the alternative to subjectivity is an objective fundamentalism (and worse, 6billion+ competing fundamentalisms). The only way I can analyze and claim my own subjective gender is by stipulating everyone else has that same right, whether or not they have the slightest inclination to question their own.



GG And if I can't claim my subjective gender on the Trans thread, where can I? Out



Yes, yes, Kitten-Logicians: I realize that stating "the universe is subjective" is an objective claim! There's gotta be a reductio ad absurdum somewhere . . .

[urnofosiris]

Gatito, I am a bit confused now, I am not sure what you are saying exactly. When you said gender is a complex social construct for everyone I took that to mean you believe gender identity is shaped (constructed) by our society/parents/whatever. I think we really should try to separate gender identity from gender roles and behavior. With gender identity I mean the way we feel/think about ourselves, as men, women or both/neither/anything in between.



I am sure my own gender identity was not influenced by society once I was born. If it were, I would be a woman. I am also sure my brothers's gender identity was not influenced by anyone. They are men, they feel like it, they never had a reason to question it, and I could tell them all sorts of things about the complexity of my gender and they still would not question themselves. It isn't a complex social construct to them. They are who they are, just like I am who I am.



On the other hand, it is clear that our gender roles and behavior can be influenced by whatever society we live in, which may force people to act in ways that would not be natural to them, but that is different from gender identity. Some women and men (who are born into the "right" bodies) may ponder the concept of gender when it is pointed out to them that they act in a masculine or feminine way, but most of them would never want to change their gender because they are women and men, period.

Quote:

---

GG And if I can't claim my subjective gender on the Trans thread, where can I?

---

You can most certainly claim your own gender anywhere on this board. No one was challenging you on that, and I don't think anyone here would ever would. We know it isn't as easy as XY or penis equals boy and XX or no penis equals girl. The only one who can determine your gender identity is you. You do get challenged when you make statements that include everyone, like saying everyone has gender issues. See, that is what I disagreed with, the way it is for you or me isn't necessarily the way it is for everyone. I would not want anyone to question my gender identity and I won't question other people's. When all my friends and family are perfectly comfortable being men and women, even if their behavior may not be what is considered stereotypical for their gender, who am I to question them?

Quote:

---

I don't think it's really possible to define "man" or "woman" in the truest sense of the words... it's a different truth for everyone. I'm not the same man my father is. I wouldn't want to be. I have different views on what it should be... but I'm no philosopher. So I'll shut up now, before I start making any less sense than I already do.

---

Tempest, that makes perfect sense to me. I don't think there is a perfect definition that includes everyone. There does not really have to be one I think, as long as people can learn to accept those of us who do not neatly fit into a certain box.

The last mosquito that bit me had to check into the Betty Ford Clinic.

--Patsy Stone

Edited by: DrG at: 10/15/03 2:06 am

[xita]

GG, I wouldn't say gender is entirely a social construct any more than I would say sexuality is entirely a social construct. I know you think you are expressing a more complex vision of gender, but to me, you are simplifying it in a way that demeans that identity.



And to answer your concern about it being threatening, why do you find it threatening to admit that there are other factors to gender?

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Tempest Duer]

Gender is clearly a multifaceted issue. There are social ideals that influence the way we see ourselves and how we identify ourselves, but it's ridiculous to say that gender is a purely social construct, even more so than to say it's a purely physical concept.



Clearly genetics, biology, etc., play a major role. Most people are perfectly comfortable with the sex they were genetically assigned, so the system has to have something going for it. One can't simplify gender to one thing, whether it's what's between your legs or what's been thumped into you by your surroundings.



Gender and sexuality are linked, sure, but they're not that related. That's the mistake that a lot of people make about the gay community, though it's more of an old idea now.



I fail to see anything on this thread as threatening. There a million ideas out there already.

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

[Gatito Grande]

When I say gender is a social construct, I am distinguishing that from sex (assigned sex, as in "M" or "F"). Sex---it's biological signifiers, like chromosomes, or gonads, or genitalia, or secondary (primarily hormonal-induced) characteristics---isn't socially-constructed (or if it is, no more so than any other empirical factors in science). But gender is the human *interpretation* of the significance of those biological components: pink or blue, sugar&spice vs. snakes&snails, how our parents dress us (and later how we dress ourselves), sitting or standing to pee, etc. etc. It should be noted, that we're not only socially-formed in how we interpret our own (assigned) gender, but how we interpret the "other" gender as well (so, DrG, I think that a social construction of gender would not limit you to the gender to which you were assigned, but would shape how you interpreted the gender to which you transitioned as well).



The way we are raised is critical to understanding how each one of us interprets gender, but it is not determinative: the entire latter half of the 20th century revolves a lot around young(er) females rejecting the concept of "woman" they were raised with---for which many of us can be extremely thankful!



I realize that I am still living w/ the fall-out of having claimed (over on the Joan of Arcadia thread) that everyone has "gender issues." In case I haven't made it clear, I'm sorry I said that. It was a glib statement that could be misinterpreted, and was. All I meant by that was that gender (human interpretation of assigned sex) was complex---as I believe it is---and that it is a Good Thing to become aware of that complexity, and to analyze it. To embrace the diversity of the ways people understand gender (amongst or even within ourselves, in some cases) and to discuss it. I'd like to think that this little explosion of dialogue on this thread is a celebration of "gender issues," that can benefit us all, whether we're comfortably living w/ our assigned gender, have adopted another, or are living somewhere along a gender spectrum (or even, as w/ those who call themselves "genderfucks," are trying to blow up the dualistic concept all together!).



Also---and this is purely a personal request---I'd love to get out of the headtrip of discussing concepts, and hear more of people's stories. And I don't just mean the people on the thread who ID as trans. As TD has said, gender and sexuality are different---and yet there is an overlap, at least as far as some (esp. the straight and gender-normal) perceive them. Maybe some lesbians here have been accused of wanting to be men? Maybe some FTMs have been told "you're just a lesbian, why would you want to . . .?" Maybe some trans people have been told there's only one way to be trans (you must have hormones, you must have surgery, you must be straight after transition)? Maybe some butch women or femme-y/dragqueen guys get mistaken for the other gender? (And I keep reading in certain lesbian publications of butches being "pressured" to transition to male. I haven't seen this, but I'd like to hear about it, if true.)



Obviously, some of the above stories could be very personal, and even painful, so I'd understand why someone wouldn't want to share. However, I'm hoping we can build more of a community---a safe space---on this thread, where no one is more of an authority on their gender than themselves. Anybody interested?



GG Maybe what I've been saying about the social construction of reality sounds slightly familiar? "Social phenomena don’t have unproblematic objective existences, they have to be interpreted and given meanings by those who encounter them." Willow Rosenburg, Life Serial Out

[Tempest Duer]

Why the hell not? I'll post my story some time.

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

[Vampivy]

GG, I say why the hell not too. Just let me find the courage to speak my mind and I might get back to you on that. Before I go I just wanted to say that the following quote from you spoke volumes to me in such a personal way and sometimes that’s why I lurk more than participate, cause I couldn’t have said it better myself if I had tried. That or I was just too terrified to say it out loud and what it means for me.



“If there's a reason I'm f*cked up, it's this: one of my earliest conscious memories is "Must Not Let Anyone Know I Feel Like a Boy, because it's Baaaaaaaaad." That's a hell of a weight for any little kid to carry, and I'm still dealing w/ the consequences…”



28 years later and counting...



Patty

~ Darkness, Imprisoning me. All that I see, absolute horror. I cannot live. I cannot die. Trapped in myself. Body, my holding cell. - Metallica ~

[Gatito Grande]

We interrupt this stimulating discussion for a quick programming heads-up. At 2PM EDT (that's less than an hour from now), the Discovery Channel will be re-running the documentary Changing Sexes: Female-to-Male. This is recent program (I believe it first ran last spring), and offers a look into the minds (and bodies, a little) of several FTMs in various states of transition. I recommend it (and hope to tape it, if my VCR doesn't f*ck up this time! )



GG Particularly eye-opening is the guy w/ the identical (female) twin Out

[sprhrgrl]

Vampivy, I agree. That quote was fabulous - I actually mentioned it to. . . Someone. . . In one of my (numerous) trans discussions the other day.



Kate Bornstein is coming to speak at my school!



And I wish I had cable.

everyone's a super kid

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)

[Gatito Grande]

In seeing this program for the second time (first was around six months ago), I had forgotten how much of the "professional" commentary was negative and insulting. (The "doctor" who compared gender dysphoria to *anorexia* should have his freakin' license pulled! ) But the stories of the guys are still moving and, to me, eminently relatable-to (um, that's not a legit phrase, is it? ).



The doctor performing the "top" surgery in SF (on Ryan---I disliked how the narrator kept calling him "Rachel" and "she/her", even though it was clear that Rachel had ID'd as Ryan well before the documentary was even begun, much less finished), Dr. Michael Brownstein, is one of the best-known (and most respected . . . usually) in the biz. It was very interesting to see him in action.



Finally, about that quote: I'm glad that some of you have found it, um, "eminently relatable-to" . It is my story, but the second half of the quote ("that's a hell of a weight to carry . . .") was actually a response from a certain Kitten that I told about me, off-board, a few months ago. It was tremendously healing for her to say that to me, and I want to thank her again, here. Love ya, chica!



GG Man, Jamison Green's (one of the publically best-known FTMs in the U.S.) hair has really started going of late. "T" has its price in the male pattern-balding department! Out

[Tempest Duer]

Kate Bornstein? At your school? Cool!

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

[sprhrgrl]

Yeah. I know. And not only is she coming to speak at a big event, but she's also coming to. my. class. to lead a workshop type thing with us.



Now maybe I can offer her the suggestions she asks me (and other crazy gender variant folks) to give her in My Gender Workbook. (laugh)

everyone's a super kid

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)

[Tempest Duer]

That's like the coolest thing ever. And it's cool on its own, too.

Choosing not to decide is still a choice.

[Gatito Grande]

One of my favorite networks, Discovery Health, had come through again in the trans department: "Super Surgery - Sex Change," on Friday night at 8PM (there are several more showings, see the website below for details).



Just a couple of things I want to mention: this is a surgery show, so it's obviously not for everyone (and doubly so, since these are surgical operations on *genitalia* we're talking about ). But if the sight of blood doesn't bother you, and you're at all interested in FTM "bottom" surgery (even academically or clinically), this program will be demonstrating the (pardon the pun) "cutting edge" of such surgeries, called the Centurion. [I know, the name---don't know where it comes from---does suggest a manly condom, or some such, doesn't it? ] It was originated just last year by a Doctor Raphael in Texas, and it's all the buzz on the FTM list I'm on. That it's been filmed shows just how much confidence both doctor and patient(s) have in the procedure---it's quite an opportunity to see it in action (as it were! ).



health.discovery.com/sche...hannel=DHC



GG One guy on this list I'm on was interviewed for the show, but ironically, his footage ended up on the "cutting room floor!" out



*****************************************************

Just for Fun



Here's a fun little "what are you?" site, the Gender Genie (it analyzes your gender based on your writing).



www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.html



Like a potato chip, it's hard to do just one (make only one submission). I started w/ a post from this very thread, my 933rd one (starting "When I say gender is a social construct . . ." ). I was soon submitting portions of other webposts, letters, fiction and even my doctoral dissertation (probably 8-10 in all).



The Genie was *almost* unanimous: I'm male (Nah, really? Go figure!) The only exception? The fiction! (a little PWP wank-fest that never has, and never will be published anywhere so help me God! ) Anyway, it was a lot of fun, though it really helps if you have a lot of written stuff on file you can call on (that should cover every student here, and a lot of non-students too---you can always just submit a bunch of Kitten-posts together, to get to the 500 word minimum). Give it a try!

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 10/22/03 11:11 pm

[Tempest Duer]

Hey, that's fun. I'm male... in everything but my W/T fanfiction. For some reason I write W/T like a girl. I guess that's a good thing.

I believe in the madness called "now."

[sprhrgrl]

I was female in my fic too. . . But they give the word "her" nine points, and I used the word "her" NINETY TIMES. . . Which totalled to 810 points for "her" and I 400 point difference. If it'd counted the "he"'s, it would about cancel it out.



Silly thing. Someone's done a version of it for Livejournal, too.



OhOh! My trans group - The Evergreen Society for Trans Action and Resources (STAR!) - is an offical club now. I dance around with much much glee.

everyone's a super kid

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)

[Gatito Grande]

Congrats on your group, sphrgrl: fight the power!



Y'know, much as I like the affirmation of my masculinity, I've become very suspicious of the Gender Genie: from one of my fave political sites, Smirking Chimp, I submitted several commentaries by female pundits. Guess what: *they* registered "male" too! (I suspect the algorithm is really more based around fiction vs. non-fiction, calling the former "female" and the latter "male" ).



GG That documentary I was touting was pretty lame: lots of talk, but next to no surgery. And the guy's Centurion didn't go very well (a couple of follow-up surgeries, and not predictable ones, I gathered), so that's not too cool, either. Out

[Tempest Duer]

Yay for you and your new group, sphrgrl!



Oh, and GG, my original fiction registered as male... so it's not just the fiction/nonfiction thing. But I think it's more based on the typical differences... I dunno, I couldn't be bothered to read the whole algorithm for how it worked.

I believe in the madness called "now."

[Vampivy]

Sphrgrl, congratulations on your Trans Group. I do my happy dance in your honor now.



Take care and good luck.



Patty

~ Darkness, Imprisoning me. All that I see, absolute horror. I cannot live. I cannot die. Trapped in myself. Body, my holding cell. - Metallica ~

[sprhrgrl]

Is this the episode you mentioned earlier, GG?



Also, I wrote a W/T fic which I'm not going to post on Pens cos it's Tara in drag, but if you want to read it hit my inbox.



Not hit it, but contact me through it.



I'm excited excited bouncy about the club - it's nice to know someone else is too. (:

everyone's a super kid

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara (Dead Things shooting script)

A muscle cramp? in your. . . pants? - Tara (Older & Far Away)