The Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Questioning/Issues Thread

[swannie]

hey everyone, been lurking for a while and finally decided to post. i have loads of respect for all you guys who had the guts to come out.



im 20 and from ireland. i've always known i was gay, although on occasion have tried to convince myself otherwise. stupid i know!! i find the idea of coming out extremely daunting, although i do want to. i come from a small town in the north west of ireland, not exactly what you would call open minded. i know for a fact my parents would completely freak and probably never speak to me again. it has a lot to do with religion, they are pretty strict catholics.



the only person i told was my best friend and we somehow got in to a relationship. basically, it was an experiment for her and i should have known better than get involved. it ended badly a few weeks ago and we don't even speak now.



finding out how she really felt hurt a lot. she never cared about me, it was just a new thing for her. so when it ended i not only lost my girlfriend but my best friend as well. it left me feeling alone in so many ways. finding this thread i don't feel so alone anymore. everyone seems so supportive and helpful and it's nice to see.

susan

[Sweetjane]

hey , sorry to here about the crappy situation you're in



this thread will probably get moved into another one by the mods , but i figured i might as well post here anyway .



the truth is , yeah it's really bad , but you're not alone at all - i've been through some rough times and especially in coming to terms with the whole thing and i'm still not entirely comfortable with myself . so i know how you feel .

you don't have to come out until you feel comfortable , i mean you have lots of options and i know it's like being stuck between a rock and a hard place - not wanting to have to confront it until you're in a serious relationship , not being able to have a serious relationship until you confront it - . you can wait until you're ready and prehaps when you feel ready to cope with everyone's reaction - i mean with the strict catholic background and everything .



but you know we'll all love ya anyway !



if you ever need someone to talk to , you can IM me on MSN - my username is in my profile



heres sending out nice vibes to you -



Sweetjane

[oneyedchicklet]

Greetings Swannie,

I just recently came out to a couple of friends. My story is in one of the other topics. Anyway, it was all great at first then the next day it was total crap. I am having a very difficult time dealing with everything but there have been some very special people on this board who have given me some great advice and support. (You know who you are)

I will pass the advice on to you. Take it one day at a time. Find a way to work through your pain. It sounds easy and if you put your mind to it, you will find that you will come to terms with it in time. I was truly at the end of my rope then I found a knot and I have been holding on for dear life. I am still coming to terms with it and you know what, i realize that my life is just that MY LIFE. Who I choose to love is no one elses decision but my own. If my friends can't handle it well I guess they are the friends I thought they were. I have plenty of new friends on this board. I am still in love with someone that I know I will never be back together with but life goes on and I will deal with the pain.

I hope this helped and if you want to talk you can email me or im me.

I'll be here if you need me.

BABS



Look I made it to "Floating Rose" Yippee!!

Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop to look around, you could miss it. Ferris Bueller

[Wonko]

Hi, Susan. Just wanted to add my support along with what the others have said. You might take some comfort from the fact that you've actually done the hardest part already - admitting it to yourself. I got to that stage when I was about 10 and I may have missed the momentousness of the occasion And, despite how bad it turned out, telling your friend was also a step in the right direction.



I did this whole coming out thing backwards to you. I started off with my sister (when I was 15) moved on to my parents (when I was 17) and then braved telling my friends (18.) The friends, for me, were the hardest part because while I knew my parents weren't going to be ecstatic about it, I was at least confident enough to know they wouldn't disown me. Friends were a different matter though. Luckily thy've all been really accepting and I've managed to find a group of friends who accept me and who I love to bits.



While I'd say I've had a pretty damn good coming out experience, I did go through the usual bouts of self-hatred and 'the terrible fear of going to hell' that my Catholic upbringing gave me But as I've got older I've managed to reconcile both my sexuality and my religion. The trick is to remember the fundamental principle that Christ stood for. Love. And isn't that what it's all about anyway?



Anyhoo, I think I've rambled on enough about me. You know, I actually did start to write this with the intention of giving you some support Anyway, we at least have the Catholic background in common so if you ever want to talk just email me. I've got several Bible-based anti-homophobia rants you can use on your parents if you think that'd work.



Good luck and remember, it may seem hard now but congratulate yourself. You're more than halfway there. And trust me, finally being out and not caring what people think about it is so liberating it makes it all worth it



Elizabeth

[swannie]

babs, elizabeth and sweetjane, thank you so much for being so supportive. you guys are great. at least now i know i have someone i can talk to when i need to. thats sweet of you considering i'm new and you don't know me.



same goes for you guys if you ever need to talk just e-mail me. my address is now in my profile.



again though, thank you, all of you. forgive me but i'm not exactly sure what instant messaging is, sorry!!



sorry for posting twice, didn't think it posted the first time.





susan

[Isolde]

Just a small post to say that while I was dealing with figuring out "who I am" last year, I was here at the kitten board lurking a lot, and just reading some of the other posts made me feel better - who knew? Lesbians are just people, too! 'Cause I'd always kinda believed they were these scary women from another planet trying to infiltrate the Earth and corrupt small children, and... but that didn't sound a whole lot like me, so that couldn't be me! But I came here (I've always been a HUGE fan of Willow/Tara, and probably found the board by mistake), and some of the stories here sounded a LOT like mine. And the kitten board wasn't the only reason I came out and knew, "Yeah, I'm definitely gay," but it helped a lot - thanks to all those who have been there from the beginning - and I was a floating rose at one point.. I swear! Mwrer!

[StarWitch]

Hi, just wanted to send you (and everyone coming out) hugs and support....the friends that don't want to know aren't worth having. One 'friend' freaked when i came out to her 3 years ago (I was 1 and didn't speak to me for several months. When we spoke again it was a very iffy relationship. It still is-gradually she's losing complete contact with me, even when we're home in Devon at the same time. She also won't let me in her house, which stinks! I know what peeps are going through. If anyone wants to e-mail me feel free.

[urmyeverything]

I am in a very serious relationship with my girlfriend and i want to be with her for the rest of my life. But i dont know anything about gay marriages other than the fact that they are not legal in missouri. Can somebody help me out? ive been trying to research it on the net but i cant really find much.

[Ittybittykitty]

I am 16. I am blessed with wonderful parents. They both support me and love me, and are really great whenever I bring a girl home. The weird thing is they are both ministers, and I am being raised pretty religeously. I have found my peace with God abut being a lesbian knowing that God doesn't look at who you fall in love with, but what you do with the love that you are given. I know my situation is unique, and that lots of GLBTQ kids like me will never have my set of cicumstances. If anyone ever needs to talk, a person to vent to, or just to chat up, my Sn is Bioferret, and my email is marjhxena_14@hotmail.com, feel free to contact me.

BTW Holy Unions, or gay weddings, are often performed in United Universalist churches, or some Congregational churches, but the only state it's legal in so far is Vermont.later!

Edited by: Ittybittykitty at: 4/21/02 6:35:34 pm

[PandoraSpocks]

This morning told my mom I might be gay, should have waited til I was sure. She didn't take it as well as I thought she would, but she didn't try to kill me either, so that's a plus. I need a hug Have to go, times up, but if you have any advice, I'd be willing (greatful) for it. She refused to except it as even a possiblity, saying I would find someone, not to worry and being gay was an unhappy life. No it will not go well if I decide I really am gay

Tara: "I am, you know" Willow: "What?" Tara: "Yours" (Hearts a Flutter)

[oneyedchicklet]

Hey Pandora,

"GREAT BIG HUG" from little old me. Take your time on your decision. You have to be the first person to come to terms with who you are. If you are gay then great, if you are not gay well guess what, thats great too. I have accepted it to myself and decided that I will tell who I want and when I want because I realize it only matters what I feel.

I hope this helps. It was some advice to me from someone on this board. Just remember one thing, here you are never alone. I am here if you need someone to talk to. You can email me or im me. All the info in in my profile.

Love and Hugs,

BABS

Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop to look around, you could miss it.

Ferris Bueller

Edited by: oneyedchicklet at: 4/23/02 6:32:24 pm

[PandoraSpocks]

Thanks ONEYEDCHICKLET hugs always help. My moms sitting beside me right now, trying to work the mouse, as she put it "I have mouse problems" I told her not to say that in public hehe Well it made the lady at the counter laugh. My mom's been really nice to me today. She asked if I'd like to go shopping and bought me stuff. I don't know if it's a peace offering or if she just wants to put it behind her. Thanks alot ONEYEDCHICKLET I'll totally take advantage of your kindness, but not in that way, unless you want me to

Tara: "I am, you know" Willow: "What?" Tara: "Yours" (Hearts a Flutter)

[oneyedchicklet]

Now Pandora are you coming on to me? Don't tease me!! You can take advantage of me anyway you'd like.

Serioulsly though, feel free to email me or im me if you ever need anyone to talk to. I'm here for you babe!!

Life moves pretty fast, if you don't stop to look around, you could miss it.

Ferris Bueller

[PandoraSpocks]

I'm writing your e-mail address down right now, and will take you up on your offer, if I ever need someone to talk to or confide in.



Your a darling

Tara: "I am, you know" Willow: "What?" Tara: "Yours" (Hearts a Flutter)

[iccle eve]

i know we've already had coming out tales but im really at the stage when i need to tell my parents and was wondering if anyone had any advice. ie what appears to work and whats a definate no no. i know its an old problem but for me it still doesnt make it any easier and im basically saying help!!!

evie xxxx

[lisa h]

Hey.



Gay marriages are not legally (federally) recognized in the United States. You can go to Vermont and have a Civil Union performed. Within Vermont the Civil Union is recognized and respected and you will receive many of the state-level benefits of marriage; like health benefits, inheritence, etc. The Federal Government does not recognize Vermont's Civil Unions. My wife and I are residents of Michigan, but we did go to Vermont for the Civil Union. Doesn't do a thing for us back home, but when we considered what might happen if the law in Vermont changed and we hadn't taken advantage of it while we could...we left the next week. We will continue going state to state if necessary until someone in Washington comes to their senses.



Lisa

Edited by: lisa h at: 4/26/02 1:53:44 pm

[MistressMaraJ]

Hey I'm a 21 year old questioner, and lately I've been thinking about the whole issue a lot. I go through phases where I'm attracted to men, and then where I'm attracted to woman (and I'm in a lesbian phase right now). So lately I've been dropping all kinds of hints to my friends, the kinds of hints where they would never really guess, but if I ever decide I am gay and tell them, they'll look back and say "wow, THAT'S what she meant!"



Anyway, I had this dream last night that bothered me and I can't really tell anyone else so I thought I'd post it here. I was at some kind of dance with my friends and I was really frustrated because they wanted me to dance with some guys because I wasn't dancing (this is probably because lately my friends have been trying to set me up with guys and really don't understand why I've been so resistant to the idea). So I look around and I see two lesbians dancing together, but I'm not attracted to them at all. Then a moment later, I'm dancing with another woman, who I'm also not attracted to, and one of my friends (who I am the least close to of my circle of friends) was staring at me in surprise, and I think somewhat disapprovingly. So, here I am in my dream basically showing my friends how I've been feeling lately and yet I'm not even attracted to the women in my dream! GRRRR! Whatever does that mean?



Thanks for listening. You guys are great!

[An]

I can't tell you about possible dream meanings, but I do know: don't feel hurried. It's your life. You don't have any deadline for knowing what sexuality you're attracted to. Sometimes it feels that way, I know, but that feeling is the thing that causes all the grief and insecurity. At least, it did for me.



Anyway, I'm glad this thread exists. I'm out to all my friends and family (not thanks to me btw, my parents found out, read something I wrote to a girl I had a crush on, and then told all our relatives) but now I'm 19 and I really would like to get some 'love-experience' for once. The fact that I have never had a gf sometimes strikes me as odd-- it's not that I don't like people, don't try, and this is Holland for gods sake! The most open gay-friendly country! (that I know of, but I don't know any others ). Maybe it's the fact that I'm too afraid to go to a gay organisation. Or that I'm just afraid to try anything. Afraid for physical contact.

What I would like to know is: is something wrong with me? Am I just being problematic where I shouldn't be?



Anneke

[WayneSim]

Hey everyone. Before I get started, can I just say you guys are the bestest people I have ever met.



Anyway, my name is Wayne, im from England UK. And here's my story



I have always knew I was gay since I was about 12, maybe younger. I just thought it would pass, Im nearly 17 now and it hasn't gone away, so I have learnt to accept it. I am truly happy with who I am now. About a year ago, I came out to my Dad. He was fine with it and said stuff about its the 21st century, blah blah. So there I was thinking he was ok with it. A couple of weeks ago though, he told me he knew it was a phase and I had gone through it. Which I hadn't because it was not a phase and I still feel the same for guys.

I decided not to say anything more, at least until im older. As long as Im happy with who I am, then thats all that matters.



if anyone wants to talk about anything, from BtVS to what we're discussing in this thread. My AOL Screen-name is AlwaysInTwubble and my email address is Buffylover19@Hotmail.com



I look forward to hearing from you and sorry about the long post.



Wayne

*Hugs to All of you*

[StarWitch]

Hey Anneke,

I wouldn't worry too much-I'd been out for quite a while until I had a girlfriend. Do what feels right. What helps a lot is finding some gay friends. If you don't know anyone gay, try and go to a gay group. When you're comfortable within the gay community, then you might find 'girlfriend-hunting' easier. That's basically what I did and my girlfriend popped out from nowhere. Hope all goes well!

'you seem starshaped....'

[Sarabie317]

One thing I would really recommend to people who haven't fully established their orientation is to give some serious thought to this whole subject of labels (gay, bi, straight, etc.). I would guess that most of us don't fit neatly into any particular category. We're human, and human sexuality is an extremely complex thing, and it works on many different levels.



It seems that we like to label ourselves because it helps us establish our identity. The label I choose to define my orientation helps me to establish who I am. It also conveys information about me to others who might want to know what kind of relationship they might have with me - platonic or romantic.



I personally can enjoy basic mechanical meaningless sex with men, though I prefer women. Technically, I'm bi. I have felt strong desire for a few men - and many women. The emotional bond, the electric chemistry, the intense desire, longing, passion, etc. - for me, that happens only with women.



And that brings up a HUGELY important point: it isn't just about sex. A genuine relationship is much more than that, and operates on so many levels.



I have found it difficult to get any interest from lesbians if I tell them I'm bi. I have found there to be an anti-bi bias in the gay community. And I understand it. I know a lot of gays have been burned by bis who choose the easy way out - the straight life. They love to point out the whole Anne Hecht leaving Ellen for a man scenario as an example.



So - I have found it easier to label myself a lesbian. Much easier to get dates, and I suppose it's not really dishonest since I really want a relationship with a woman, not a man. If I found a woman with whom I wanted to spend the rest of my life, I would commit to her in a heartbeat.



My guess (and this is largely based on my own background, each of us sees this differently) is that Willow never really gave it much thought until she met Tara. The chemistry she had with Tara was powerful enough to draw her in and get her hormones flowing in a way that she knew what she needed to do.



And that's another HUGELY important point - it's about people, not labels. For Willow, it was about being with Tara, not about "becoming" a lesbian.



At some point, you might know with absolute certainty that you need to be with a woman or you need to be with a man. Until then, allow yourself to feel whatever you feel for whoever you feel things for. No, I'm not suggesting you toy with other people irresponsibly and go around breaking hearts. You don't have to act on everything you feel. I am suggesting that you allow yourself to experience all that you are feeling instead of trying to bury any of it trying to pretend you're something you're not. That's the only way you can really figure it all out for yourself.

I'm a breast girl myself

[Kaisyn]

I completely agree. I spent 30 miserable years trying to fit into everyone's interpretation of what "feminine" was for me and constantly failed. Late in year 31 of my life I had a half hour long nervous breakdown and I realized I was gay. I was also a born again, spirit filled Christian. I'd jumped through every hoop they gave me and was still "this way." Acknowledging it allowed me to find my peace with God and realize that He didn't hate me. Most people think Gay Christian is an oxymoron. I go to an MCC church in Minneapolis and it's a bit stodgy for me, but at least the people are nice and it preaches a relationship with Jesus. There are some pheonomenal websites on Gay Christianity. A great magazine online called Whosoever, also. I have to admit that I despise people that try to make me defend my faith in regards to my sexual orientation. Humans like labels so they know where they fit on the chess board of life. It becomes a game, just like the pissing contest we've made out of Christianity. Past the cross, it's mostly debatable. I'm sure it breaks the heart of God like nothing else. We're killing each other in the name of God, just like it's always been and it has nothing to do with him. He just gets the blame.

[jdcioffi]

"he just gets the blame"



I just wanted to say "yes!" to that. I'm not overly, underly or partially religious. I'm just here. I believe in what I believe in -- and it has nothing to do with who I love. I think it's just easy for some people to hate in the name of something bigger than they ...



anyway, i'm here. always with an ear (or eye, i guess, in the case of the board).



JD



murmurz@yahoo.com (if you need me)

Helen: "What makes you happy?"
Jessica: "Nothing. I'm not."
(Kissing Jessica Stein)

[iccle eve]

i was thinking about what Sarabie317 said about how there are stigmas attatched if you tell people your bi. i am gay and have many straight, gay and bi friends and after discussing it through with them it turned out that there is a number of reasons that people feel uncomfortable dating bi people.

My straight friends said they would feel insecure with someone who had the potential to leave them for anyone.

However the most interesting prejudice i came across was from my gay friends who said they would always think twice before dating a bi person. They explained that this was due to an underlying feeling that the person who was bi was not in tune completely with who they were. As you can imagine a riotous argument ensued between my gay and bi friends, with me tryin to calm things wishing that i hadnt bought it up.

In the end all i can conclude is that people have an underlying fear of dating bi people due to the insecurity of being left, and with bi people there are mathematically more "options". In the end we decided that truat was more important and you shouldnt judge wether or not to date someone due to their sexual orientation but you should judge how you feel about them. Surely the chemistry you feel and that stomach flip they induce is more important what they class themselves as.

[MadeinNZ]

I hope this isn't too stupid a question but - at what point did you feel that you lost your virginity?



Traditionally it has all been about penetration with the penis but how does this translate if your only sexual experience has been with other women? When does intimacy between two women become sex? Is there a line?

------------------------------


"When someone falls for Willow, they stay fallen" - Normal Again

[urnofosiris]

MadeinNZ, I'm sure some 'traditional' men (and women I guess) would hold onto that definition for dear life, poor souls. But I would not so respectfully disagree with them.

However one loses their virginity does not require a penis. Period.

---------------------------



"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

[MadeinNZ]

Ah yes. But what does it require?

------------------------------


"When someone falls for Willow, they stay fallen" - Normal Again

[urnofosiris]

Is it important? Seriously, I do not think you can give a black and white definition everybody will agree with. I mean, would one count "just" oral sex with no penetration or penetrating of any kind ever? Well yup I would, whereas some people would claim that isn't really sex at all, heh heh.

---------------------------



"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

[La]

IMO, it's gotta be totally up to the individual. When do you feel you've lost your virginity? You can have a totally passionate wonderful experience without any penetration and it's totally sex, and that could be it. Does it really matter anyway? "Virgin" is just an old term, maybe we don't even need it anymore anyway. Here in Korea, if a Korean man asks a woman if she's a "virgin", he's just asking if she's single. It's become a Konglish (words of somewhat English origin that have been so adapted into the Korean that most of the time they're unrecognizable to English-speakers) word to mean single. It shouldn't be about whether or not you're a "virgin" but whether or not you're in a happy relationship and are having fun sexually.

~La

You know you've been in Korea too long when you walk around with your shoes uncomfortably loose, but you don’t tighten them in case you have to remove your shoes and put them back on again any time soon.

[MadeinNZ]

Thanks. You're right. Its not important. I was just curious.

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"When someone falls for Willow, they stay fallen" - Normal Again