How do you know -Be Careful

[T Maclay]

I'm writting this as I dont want people to have to go through what I have.



I have been really stupid and got involved with someone who had been posting on my forum, well I met her and her boyfriend on a different forum 6 months ago, but then started my own. I thought I knew these people, we had talked for hours and hours nearly everyday. I quite often found myself questioning them, whether they were 'real' as sometimes things just didnt add up, but they would also re-assure me and I would believe them. Well not long ago, things changed from just friends and cryper sex started, a sort of a relationship with her, I was stupid, as I have a GF of 6 years, who I really love, but for some stupid reason, I got into this.

Whilst I was at MR, I realised what I was doing, that I really did love my girl so what I was doing had to stop. but I get back to be told this online person, had just had a baby (we all knew she was pregnant) but was in a coma, this was 6 days after she had given birth. Well not long after she was home and I told her it was all over. I would still be friends but I need space, but I didnt get it, she kept msning me, or leaving messages in my forum, and telling me horrif stories about what was happening to her, all this time the baby seem to have just dissappeared. Anyway on the weekend I couldnt cope with it anymore, the lying to my GF, plus she found a email I had sent to someone who I had been talking to about my situation, so I thought no more lying, and told her -well the shit hit the fan.



The next day after a lot of talk and tears etc, we talked about stuff and started to work out that things didn't fit into place. this person had found out she was 5-8 weeks pregnant, the week before christmas -but went full term in june - um only 8 months. Many other stories like that finally feel into place.



My GF wanted to see what had gone on with me and this person so went to check her messages (as the admin of our froum we can do that, incase of trouble) and we were shocked at what we found. This person who would always tell me she had no one - had been talking to 90% of my members, we had to check a few of them, and also decided to check her boyfriends too, and his was the same. We were horrified to discover that they were especially targeting the teenage girls of the forum,and were shocked at some of the content.

Reading the stories in these messages just showed us how many lies were going on,nothng added up, stories were told totally different in some, but in other messages, there were cases when the same message had just been totally cut and pasted and sent to several people.



Anyway, the long and the short of it is, these people were not who there said they were, and the relationship they were developing with these teenagers was not safe or healthy. After my girl friend asked this girl not to come back into the forum (for obvious reasons -would you want to see the person your GF cheated with in your forum) her boyfriend sent messages to several of the people(mainly the teenagers), asking for personal information, msn,yahoo address etc, -not just email address so they could keep in touch, but lots more.



I thought I knew these people, and even though I feel like I have no rights to anything since afterall, I did do wrong, I did cheat, I feel so abused and violated by these two people, I trusted them, thought I knew them but now find out that they are not at all who they are -they may not even be two people, male , female -I know nothing - yet they know alot about me



I really want to just stress, please be careful when talking to people on line as I would hate for this to happen to any of you.

My GF found this article on trolls - click here, the bit that was interesting to me was the bit about Tactical Trolls, the above mentioned people just fitted into that.



Anyway, as I say, becareful, dont be an idiot like me.

Bored-Now

[Vampire Willow]

TM--



You ARE NOT stupid! It is true that you made a bad choice but you're not stupid! I've had my own experiences with people like this...



I'm a 14 year-old girl and I'm not shy about ANYTHING! If people ask me how old I am, I say 14. If they wanna know what state I live in, I'll say Wisconsin. They wanna know my name? Tasha! It has gotten me into some really deep shit in the past, too. I trust most (if not all) of you on the Kitten and I know that you knowing my name, age, location, sexuality, whatever, isn't a problem. But, it has been an issue on other boards.



I know first-hand how disturbing an experience with someone "stalking you" via email, IM, PM, ect can be. And you should not be upset with yourself at all! You may have engaged in....what you engaged in but it was not your doing that brought about the sour end. It must have been extremely hard to have to explain to your girlfriend what was going on. Something like that happened to me a few years ago and it was horrible having to explain myself. Be glad that she understood! I wasn't so lucky; we still aren't talking.



I am very glad that you brought this up, TM. It is something very serious; something which most of the people my age take for granted. They meet somebody nice and all of a sudden, the two are bestest buddies! It is my opinion that kids (teens, whatever) assure themselves that it will never happen to happen to them, cuz they're smarter than the other people. HARDLY! People do need to smarten up; that isn't a surprise to anyone, I hope.



Thanks again, TM. I hope that this was a wake-up call to some of the younger contingency (such as myslef) who might make--or have already made--this mistake.

I hope that all is well with you again soon.



~Tash xoxo

...and that's trying to cheat at Scrabble. ~Eddie Izzard

Edited by: Vampire Willow at: 6/25/03 6:56 pm

[3peanuts]

You're not stupid sweetheart. I heard a lot of stories like yours. Cris, a friend of mine, had a HUGE prob. with a guy/girl who knew so much about her that he/she used her nick to play unpleasant tricks to her friends. She spent six months trying to get rid of this shit.



And yes, it gets even more dangerous if young people are involved. We should always create a sort of safety-net for young people we know use our forum, letting them feel they're not alone, creating relationships, supporting them. We should have always a ear up in alarm...

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[Tsia]

It's very easy to get preyed on, from my experience.



Recently, one of the people who go to an art forum that I visit was 'stalked' online. The stalker stole the person's art and claimed it was her own, and continually hassled her, gave the person's journal anonymous comments, etc. And the thing is, she won't leave people alone. She apparently had been 'stalking' another member of the forum for a couple of months. I'm not sure of the exact details, but it was frightening.



Makes me want to seal off my computer, eep.

> From the mouth of Buffy...."They go together like chicken and....another chicken!!"

[xita]

Yes, it is my not so secret wish and desire that young people feel safe here. I needed safe space once upon a time as a teen and someone helped me and let me talk and listened to me. The #1 goal for the board now is to be that space. I know there are a lot of people who take advantage of the anonimity of the internet. If anything like that happens here make sure to let me know as I will do everything in my power to make it stop. I am wondering if anyone has tips for staying safe. I wasn't a kid but when I first started online I was scared something could happen and I was wary of meeting people from the internet. I am thinking these rules still apply:



1. don't give out your personal information (I know eventually we end up giving it to certain people, but I think it's safe if you know their identity and it has been independantly verified).



2. don't meet people in private places, meet preferrably with other people but certainly in public places.



any more?

-----------------------------------
Leora......Leora....

[T Maclay]

Yes tips would be good.



And dont make the mistake of, you have a photo of this person so they must be who they say they are. I have several photo's of this person, and also of the so called baby, although, they just would not send one of themselve pregnant, or with the baby. So I really wonder who's baby it is that they are sending pic's of out to people.



Time is also something that you just cant assume, as I said, I had been talking to these people nearly everyday for hours for 6 months, I thought I knew them.

Bored-Now

[3peanuts]

Another good tip, in my opinion, is:



Don't isolate with somebody, don't start exclusive relationships, even if they seem safe or if they are only on line. Try to get in touch with a lot of people on the same board, let them know who you are in contact with.



In a large range of cases the fact that the prey is not alone and that a lot of people care about him/her is a good way to discourage stalkers.

This doesn't mean that you should say to people on the forum: "Oh I have on line sex with *insert nickname*"



Secrets are dangerous.

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[T Maclay]

I have just gone and checked a couple of the BTVS /Alyson Hannigan forums I use to post on and have discovered that these two people have registered, or started posting again since Monday -the day the could no longer get on to my forum. - I really dont know what to do for the best!!!

Bored-Now

[3peanuts]

E-mail the moderators...alert people you know there and you trust.

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[T Maclay]

I did think about that but I dont know if they will do anything. I do know though that there are a couple of people off my forum on them so hopefully word will get out.

Bored-Now

[AmberMaclay]

This kinda thing happens all to much, and is really sad. I think you should warn the other forums as you just dont know what kind of things they are doing there -but probably more of the same.

[T Maclay]

I have now decided to contact the other Boards, after finding out more stuff last night.



I was talking to a member on my board, who was confused about it all, who had become friends on-line with these people to, and he asked if I would send him the photo's they sent -normal I would say no, as I have a thing about privacy, and I was asked not to show them to anyone. Well as soon as he got them he was like 'Interesting.... and then followed to tell me who the pics were of, one being a american wrestler and the other an actress.

It took them months for them to even send me a pic, but now I know, they were sussing out what sort of things I was into, so the likelyhood of we knowing who they were was slim, yet they wouldnt send them to anyone else.



So now I feel like an even bigger idiot about it all, and so hurt and pissed off about it, but Im really glad to have found this info out as I had a teenage girl on my board saying to me that she was still going to talk to them as whilst she believed me, she had no real evidence, but now after hearing about the photo's, she is taking it way more seriously and hopefully has changed her mind.

Bored-Now

[angelofinsanity]

nah- you're no idiot for falling for such a hideous trick. I'm not too sure on details, but i'm sure there's this place where you can report these 2 ppl. Internet Angels or something like. they can track down these ppl (with their oh so high tech compute hacking devices!!!) and if they find enough dirt on them, get their REAL details call in the police of whereever county they live in and charge them for internet stalking etc.... >



STAcy

[T Maclay]

Thanks, I'll look into that.

Bored-Now

[kiwi6969]

Hey Deb *hugs* you are not stupid...they aproched me to remember.....so then if you are stupid then so am I, I totaly understand though...who do you trust while online???? I haven't many friends..but most of them are kittens..and I do trust them....and if anything should go bad I would hunt them down a kick some butt.....hehe.





kiwi

we are all lips in life sucking on one big nipple ~ kiwi6969

"shes out ther,our souls have meet,our hearts have meet,just not ourselves"

[MadeinNZ]

I think this thread is great - and a timely reminder that the internet can be a dangerous place. Its so easy to get sucked into what people say - especially people who are skilled in saying what you want to hear.



I would love to say that we are all completely safe on the Kitten. The mods work very hard to keep the Board free from trolls and badness. Its one of the safest forums I've come across. Unfortunately the mods aren't here all the time and some people sneak in while we're not looking. I'm always amazed how the Kittens watch out for each other but please - don't think the Kitten tag means you don't have to be careful. Always be safe and follow the simple rules about giving out private information too readily.



One thing I'd recommend is to not use your full name in your email address. its pretty easy these days to set up email addresses so try not to give away everything right from the start.



In no way am I saying that this Board isn't safe. I just don't want anyone to become complacent.



If you want to chat more about this my personal email and residential address (complete with phone numbers) is ... just testing!

Edited by: MadeinNZ at: 6/29/03 4:43 am

[T Maclay]

I would just like to point out one thing - Whilst I understand what you are saying about the mod's on this forum, and I really do believe they are and do do everything in there power to get trouble off this board (hey Mods, I think you are doing a great job, I'm just making a point here and nothing against you guys, so please dont take this personal in anyway, as I think you do a great job), The two members mentioned above have been members on my forum since the beginning, they came from a Alyson Hannigan forum I moderatored on before it closed down, they have never really been any trouble and were just like anyone else on the forum so it seemed,they email address was real, and there was nothing realy to question near the beginning, they really were good at what they did, so whilst I really hope that everyone on this board is for real, and I trust that they are, please, please still be careful, you can just never tell.



Once again please believe me, I am not having a go at this forum or anyone on it, just making a point at how careful you really have to be.

Bored-Now

[Wytchi Grrl]

Sorry for your bad experience, sometimes it's so hard to tell about someone you meet online, your right it is better to be very cautious with everyone.



I just wanted to share my little experience with this, If anything just to get it off my chest because I hadn't really told anyone before now, so I'll say in advance thanks for listening.

I use to help run a support group online and I dedicated nearly every hour of the day to giving people who needed it a person to talk too, I knew that I was setting myself up for the occasional abuse from trolls or worse but I was ok with that and when it happened I just took it with a pinch of salt as what I was doing was rewarding enough to put up with it.

Then I met this woman who appeared very troubled, I spent a great deal of time talking to her, and just listening to her.

She once casually mentions her lodger was gay, when she seemed to be doing better we talk about our lives and although I never gave out any personal info other than my first name, I was open about my lifestyle etc.

One day she ask me for my full name and address, I was very shocked and ofcourse said no. She then went on to say the reason was because she wanted to put me in her will. When i still refused she turned extremely nasty, and suddenly used my sexuality to fuel her hate filled accusations. Then i recieved an email supposedly from her sister, who this woman had said before never spoke to her saying that she was in hospital because she had tried to take her life because of me.

This was all to much, I left the forum and changed my email address. I lost alot supposed friends at the forum because they thought i'd left for selfish reasons. I did stay in contact with one person who informed me that this woman couldn't have done what she said because she was still posting at the forum. Which made me feel better but not by much.



It's really hard to know who to trust, but now I feel i'm better equipped on where I can be totally honest, after leaving the support group, I opened my own and never gave insights to my offline life. So I guess what i'm saying is it's not just your name and address you have to be careful with. But I'm glad of the kitten because you can be open about your sexuality be it gay or straight and because the mods do a good job at weeding out the trolls. Also because i've met some great genuine people on here. I never post at any other board these days. Anyway thanks again for listening

---

Witchcraft Grrls

Sassy Eggs

[angelofinsanity]

damn. i'm sorry you had to experience that kind of sh*t online. it's troubling to see how nasty some ppl are (what a whacked world we live in). I hope you guys never meet scums like that anymore (but seeing that unless they all crawl under a bed and die that's not going to happen, i'll buffer my 'hope you' by hoping you guys will very rarely meet scums like that ever. )



On a note on the kittenboard: gee i've never met such a nicer bunch of ppl before. I was kinda VERY surprised by how nice you kittens are. GO KITTENS



STacy

[3peanuts]

Yep! Kittens rock! It's hard to meet people so polite, understanding, and so brightly intelligent! I've been disappointed a lot of times even on glbt forums...so I'd like to thank kitties and moderators, who make a real good job!

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[T Maclay]

I gave my cell phone number to these people as we were really close and she was about to have a baby, and I wanted to know when it was born.



Then a coulple of days ago, I got this phone call from an insurance company and my phone number had been used as the phone number of the person who had been in the accident, the name they used - the last name was the same as one of there first names on the forum. and the accident took place not to far from where they said they lived.



Luckly as I live miles away from there they knew it wasnt me, but now I worry about what else my number is being used for. The problem with cell numbers is they have no area code so could be used any where, if I had used my home number, they would not have been able to use it like they have done.



It really winds me up as I have had this cell number for years and it now looks like im going to have to change it. -NOT HAPPY!!!

Bored-Now

[3peanuts]

So sorry T! Let me hug you....

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right

[T Maclay]

Thanks Peanuts, it's just such a annoying thing. You trust someone and then you find all this out, and then they have the check to use my phone number. I'm just so glad I never gave them my address -I was going to at one point.

Bored-Now