"Preventing" homosexuality??

[Eire Scully]

During the course of a discussion about homosexuality being a choice/not being a choice on an X Files forum I visit, I was referred to this article: www.family.org/docstudy/n...21043.html



I read it. I read it again to make sure that my eyes were not playing tricks on me and that yes, a qualified doctor wrote this. God but it saddens me so much, that in this day and age some people still have the same bigoted agendas and are keen to spread them.

[Lindy]

bleh.



I just read across this article, it hurts my eyes and heart. That's all I gotta say.

*********

Buffy: Kill the bad fairy... destroy the bad fairy's
powercenter, whatever, and all the troubles go away? ...

World is what it is. We fight. We die. Wishing
doesn't change that.

Giles: I have to believe in a better world.

[snuggle79]

ouch, just ouch...

Oh baby, want me to rub your tummy? She likes it when I ... stop explaining things.

Hi, um Tara..how are you? well...I was wondering maybe you want to go out some time...for coffee? food? Kisses and gay love?

[tkheaven]

What the...? Who the...? That.Hurt.

Tk's new and improved "GrrArgg"

-----------------------------
Tara was similarly riveted, her body on slow burn as Willow's lips parted and her mouth opened, the food slipping inside and being consumed. Never in her life had Tara ever wanted to be a chicken casserole so badly...Later that night..."It's good to be a chicken casserole," Tara murmured, before passing out. ~ Answering Darkness by Sassette

[Magrat70]

Never mind preventing homesexuality; it's a pity we can't prevent arseholes like this from getting in print.

These five words in my head scream "are we having fun yet?"

Chad Kroeger

[Pipsqueak]

At first I was appalled that anyone would believe this drivel ... until I noticed who the author was. That explains it. I've heard James Dobson give "lectures" on the radio several times; that man is pathetically stupid. Was listening to him drone on about Creation once while I was driving in my car, and of course with me being a physics major and knowing that all of the "scientific facts" he was spouting were ridicuously wrong, I started laughing so hard I nearly had to pull over.

---------------


"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -- Albert Einstein


Check out my Buffy videos at http://mywebpages.comcast.net/pipsqueaky

[eccentrictulip]

Quote:

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Never mind preventing homesexuality; it's a pity we can't prevent arseholes like this from getting in print.

---

exactly, magrat, exactly.

*please use both hands....*

[Vampric Yoda]

I only skimmed threw this but it sounds liek another Chirsten ((No offence to any of you that are)) tring to force there values onto other people. THinking they are the Moral high ground. Many religions like that put these sick ideas in people's heads that "This is wrong, That is wrong" And try to force others into thinking that. The best thing to say about it is that you can't change there opoinions any more then they can change yours. And pay them no mind and don't let them change how you feel. If your not the relgion, does it matter. This guy is a crackpot minoirty now. More often then not with people I know are understanding of what's going on now. They don't agree with it. . but they say "To each there own". For example when people what people that I know think about being gay they usually say something like that. I don't know what it's like elsewhere but here it's fine. Hell one of my Bosses at work is gay and I could care less. Except that he's a little overly friendly a little like the sterotypes. . but that has nothing to do if he's gay or not and he'd be like that anyway. Well I'm done with my rant. Goodbye

[Puff]

Poor kid didn't need professional help, he needed understanding. The man came across as an asshole as well

-----------------------
You know, it's a real deal relationship and that's why people can relate to it
Amber Benson

[AutumnT]

"Dr." James Dobson is the head of Focus on the Family. He's a notoroious homophobe. That's all you need to know.

Autumn

-----------

It grated, like something forced in where it doesn't belong.

[tommo]

And this is the reason why we don't need people jumping around joyously because Tara is dead.



I'm sorry, but I don't need to read shit like this. If being gay was indeed a choice, then nobody would choose to be harangued and barracked through most of their life, would they?



Bah. Nasty nasty man. For someone who preaches about finding Christ, he really isn't a great advert for being a Christian.

----------
This...won't hold me...forever...

[spuckie]

Just to add to all of this, The book quoted "Bringing up boys" is prominently displayed in Barnes and Noble Bookstores as a best seller. This is in both the family book section, and in a center Isle of books dedicated to raising children.

------------
*dazed and confused*

[Magrat70]

because we want to bring up our children narrow minded and repressed

These five words in my head scream "are we having fun yet?"

Chad Kroeger

[Mrs Vertigo]

He seems to care so much more about male homosexuality than female. Humm, I wonder why that is...



Also, he mentions sexual orientation can indeed be changed. Isn’t that great? I mean, now we know there's still hope for Jennifer Love Hewitt, Winona Ryder, Holy Hunter and other gorgeous straight women to finally turn gay!



Another thought: To me, the most peculiar thing about the homophobic analyses of the nature of homosexuality is that it insists gay individuals act like/wish to be of the other sex. Homophobes can't seem to grasp the idea that it is possible to be content with one's gender, AND be attracted that gender sexually. That’s funny, because that is precisely what homosexuality IS; otherwise, it would've been disguised heterosexuality. Can’t the homophobes see that? They’re contradicting their own thesis. Are they all profoundly and infinitely stupid? Wait, of course they are; that's why they're homophobic.



"There's no such thing as a gay teen..."

Oh my, I guess I just don't exist.



"..the father plays an essential role in a boy's normal development as a man. The truth is, Dad is more important than Mom."

Alright, by that logic I should have five times more gay friends than I actually do. No, wait, I should have ten times more; real fathers are an extinct species.



“The boy's father has to do his part…He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis.”

...Ok, WHAT?!





Alright, I could go on forever but I think you guys got my point. This thing is ridiculous.

[Gatito Grande]

Quote:

---

Bah. Nasty nasty man. For someone who preaches about finding Christ, he really isn't a great advert for being a Christian.

---

Exactly. As someone who can claim/admit to being a Christian, I assure you that if James Dobson actually follows Jesus of Nazareth then (as "Wayne" would say) monkeys fly out of my ass.



GG Just checking: a little flabby, and queer as a $3 bill, but still monkey-free Out

[Ittybittykitty]

I am offended that this guy would claim to be a Christian. Jesus embraced the weak, downtrodden, unfriended and opressed. This guy sounds like he's an elitist bastard.

Meri-SCREW THE SYSTEM!
Me-I will not, who knows where it's been?!

[BBOvenGuy]

Ah yes, Dr. Dobson... such a lovely man...



Homosexuality has been called the most divisive issue in the American church since slavery. That comparison makes two important points - #1, that once upon a time there were Christians who were being just as adamant in their support of slavery, so Christians aren't always right, and #2, that given enough time and perseverence, justice can still prevail.



My personal theory about why some Christians are so obsessed with stamping out homosexuality - I mean, the Bible's admonitions against it are ridiculously few and contextual compared to admonitions against things like gossiping or ignoring the poor - is because it's the one minority you can never be sure won't involve you. I mean, if you're prejudiced against black people and you don't want any black members of your family, all you have to do is avoid having sex with black people. With homosexuality, it doesn't work that way. The most homophobic parents in the world can still produce a gay child, and there's nothing they can do to stop it - and that terrifies them.



Anyway, if you'd like a more refreshing Christian view about homosexuality, here's a transcript of a speech given by the Rector Emeritus at my church, the man who decided to start blessing same-sex unions a little over ten years ago:



www.allsaints-pas.org/arc...s.bot.html

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly" - Thomas Merton

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 7/13/02 10:40:10 am

[Bookcat]

I couldn't even read this whole thing. This guy is more than a joke, he's a... I can't think of a good word.

He says "There are eight hundred known former gay and lesbian individuals today who have escaped from the homosexual lifestyle and found wholeness in their newfound heterosexuality". Well, did he take into account the 10-odd percent of people who actually kept their lifestyles?



And Ruth is absolutely right, who would choose opression?



BTW, this is kind of random, but if I were in one of those straightening camps like in but I'm a cheerleader, I'd say my root was "genetic predisposition".

[Gatito Grande]

Oh, Bob, I knew I loved you: you're 'Piscy too!



I just hope I live long enough until official homophobia by the churches is viewed the way past official racism is now: deeply shameful.



GG My favorite definition of the Episcopal Church: "the church where you don't have to check your brain at the door" Out

[Eire Scully]

Thanks for the info guys. I had never heard of this Dr Dobson fella before and am somewhat heartened to learn that he is a raving loony himself, and not a well respected doctor. Still, it doesn't make the article any less depressing, does it?

"Feck!! Drink!! Arse!! Girls!!"

[xita]

Quote:

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To me, the most peculiar thing about the homophobic analyses of the nature of homosexuality is that it insists gay individuals act like/wish to be of the other sex

---

Well that's 19th century talk for homosexuality. That's so sad to stil ascribe to Krafft-Ebing's theories. Geez. Inverts, that's bad.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[orion]

Gee I don't know what to say I was so pissed at times I was yelling at the screen, then I realised how pathetic this guy is and I couldn't stop laughing..



I mean "pre-homosexuality" ?

and this is too funny..



"Finally, if homosexuality were genetically transmitted, it would be inevitable, immutable, irresistible, and untreatable. Fortunately, it is not. Prevention is effective. Change is possible. Hope is available. And Christ is in the business of healing."



Sorry I'm a Psych major and all i can say is....what the frilly heck was that?

"Thats a little Blacker then I like my arts" -Dopplegangland

[urnofosiris]

Oh yeah, that letter sounded like your typical 13 year old all right. If that letter is for real I hope that boy never reads that reply though.

Quote:

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If the condition resulted from inherited characteristics, it would be a "constant" across time. Instead, there have been societies through the ages, such as Sodom and Gomorrah and the ancient Greek and Roman empires, where homosexuality reached epidemic proportions.

The historical record tells us that those cultures and many others gradually descended into depravity

---

Unlike the heterosexual Third Reich huh?

Quote:

---

There are eight hundred known former gay and lesbian individuals today who have escaped from the homosexual lifestyle and found wholeness in their newfound heterosexuality.

---

A number which is probably dwarfed by the thousands upon thousands who have escaped from the heterosexual lifestyle and found wholeness in their newfound homosexuality.

Quote:

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Who among us would knowingly choose a path that would result in alienation from family, rejection by friends, disdain from the heterosexual world, exposure to sexually transmitted diseases such as AIDS and tuberculosis, and even a shorter lifespan?

---

Oh how sweet, he is worried about the health and lifespans of gays. Btw, tuberculosis is a sexually transmitted disease? Oh live and learn, thanks colleague, they neglected to tell me that in med school. As for sexually transmitted diseases including HIV, well might I recommend that all women of the world refrain from heterosexual sex and from this day onward only practice lesbian sex as that is far, far safer?

Quote:

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Fathers make men

---

Thanks dad! Mine even managed to make one without a Y chromosome. Good job.

Quote:

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There are certain signs of prehomosexuality which are easy to recognize, and the signs come early in the child's life. Most come under the heading of "cross-gender behavior." There are five markers to [diagnose] a child with "gender-identity disorder." They are:

Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex.

In boys, preference for cross-dressing, or simulating female attire. In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing.

Strong and persistent preference for cross-sexual roles in make-believe play, or persistent fantasies of being the other sex.

Intense desire to participate in stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex.

Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.

---

And what does any of this have to do with homosexuality?

Quote:

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The bottom line is that homosexuality is not primarily about sex.

---

Ok all you gay people out there, I am sure you did not know this so stop having sex at once and pay attention to the good doctor!

Quote:

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It is about everything else, including loneliness, rejection, affirmation, intimacy, identity, relationships, parenting, self-hatred, gender confusion, and a search for belonging.

---

These are all emotions no self respecting heterosexual has ever experienced I am sure.



Ok there is so much that is wrong with this picture but these things just stood out for their sheer simple stupidity. I especially love that sexual transmitted diseases argument, for really, lesbian sex is the best way to go then.



Lastly,

Quote:

---

The second thing we know is that the disorder is not typically "chosen."

---

Sure so why write a whole longwinded article on how it can be unchosen? Jeez, make up your mind already.

---------------------------


Tara: "uh Willow?"

Willow: "No dancing naked, huh?...It just won't be the same."

Tara: "That's all right, we can save it for later" ----From Wilderness, the newest WT comic written by Amber Benson and Christopher Golden

Edited by: DrG at: 7/13/02 3:51:42 pm

[Sheridan]

it's kind of typical of the either/or type of argument. Homosexuality is either genetic or its some sort of social conditioning. The reality is that like everything else in the human psyche seuality is a complex mix of genetics, upbringing, and your social structure. Can Homosexuals be 'converted'? Well in the sense that with good brainwashing techniques and enough time you can reprogram anyone I suppose yes. Can you make them 'happy' heterosexuals? I deeply doubt it.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[Willowlicious]

Garfield, I love you. I just do. Every time I read one of your posts, my love grows deeper (and naughtier). Plus, you always save me from having to post, because you already've said what I wanted to, so....



I love you.



Deal with it.



Amy

--------

"It's a luscious mix of words and tricks that let us bet when we know we should fold."

"Caring Is Creepy" by The Shins

[LiangFeng]

My mom has the book. She reads it too. My God someone kill me please.

O-Mei Duei! JIA YOU!

[Robin]

just 2 words: brainless idiot!

[maudmac]

There are so many things wrong with what Dobson says, it's impossible for me to even know where to begin. But, since I would be preaching to the choir anyway, I won't go there. I do want to comment on a few things, though.



1) It's very clear that Dobson and his ilk don't accept the idea that human sexuality, in fact all animal sexuality, and senses of gender are fluid. It's very black and white for them; you can be female OR male, heterosexual OR homosexual, with nothing between the two. He sees femininity and masculinity as being mutually exclusive. Of course, they aren't. Neither are hetero- and homosexuality.



Dobson's influence on questioning kids and their parents/guardians can only lead to self-hatred or denial. To say that many people have "changed their sexual orientation" is to deny the fluidity and range of sexuality. I have a good friend who was exclusively lesbian until, at the age of 30, she fell in love with a man. That doesn't mean she's straight now or that she wasn't a lesbian then, it simply means she's a human who fell in love with a human. How hard is that?



2) Jesus Christ himself, as quoted in the Bible, never once addressed homosexuality. So for a Christian to take a hardline stance on the issue "as a Christian" means they are following the teachings of someone other than Christ.



3) That "Of course homosexuality isn't a choice. Why would I choose to be something everyone hates?" argument bothers me on a whole lot of levels. Obviously I know it's not a choice, because I know I didn't choose this. But if I had a choice, I would choose to love women. If I could take a pill today that would make me straight, there's no way I would do it. I love women, bottom line. I don't want to love men, as wonderful as many of them are.



And there is nothing you can be that isn't hated somewhere. We are all something hated. But we are all also something loved. No matter who and what you are, you are loved and hated. There's no way around that.



The onus should be on society to change, not us as members of an oppressed minority. How would you feel about Rosa Parks saying, "I wish I were white"?

---------------------------
I bring pie scented cleaner!--- weebl

Edited by: maudmac at: 7/13/02 3:30:00 pm

[Caphricacorn]

My uncle is a Chrisitian preacher at the same church that my parents force me to go, and we get the "Focus on the Family" newsletters each week. Everyone at my church goes to the seminars and stuff, believing every word of it. No wonder I'll never be able to tell my family I'm gay- they'll just waste money and time trying to turn me "back"!

"I just wanna live the life I please/ Don't want no enemies/ I don't want nothing, if I have to fake it/ Never take nothing don't belong to me/ Everything's paid for, nothing's free/ If I give my heart out, do you promise not to break it?" -"I Think I Lost It" Lucinda Williams
My Lesbo Street Cred: 1

[Sheridan]

The sinister part of this nonsense is that by arguing that gays can somehow be converted into straights you must also accept the reverse argument. Thus you can justify resistance to any granting of right to gays and lesbians on the grounds that it will 'promote homosexuality'. If it really worked that way wouldn't Aly and Amber be dating by now? Sadly like so many things reality and 'what everyone knows' are poles apart. People prefer definitely wrong to maybe right.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am