The Genuine OT Rugby World Cup 2003 Thread

[Bagheera]

Quote:

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...it's rather odd that a nation that prides itself on its virility should feel compelled to strap on forty pounds of protective gear just in order to play rugby.

Some TV show that outstayed its welcome.

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"Rugby"? Aha yes, the World Cup of "the game they play in Heaven" is once again upon us. Yes this is OT, but we have had threads about other sporting tournaments, so why not this one? Many, many Kittens will have teams representing their nations in this tournament, and no doubt some Kittens are passionate about their rugby. Some of them may even be from places other than New Zealand.



The bare facts and figures are:

20 teams from 6 continents

40 Group matches, followed by quarter-finals, semi-finals and the final.

Four or five sides have a realistic chance of winning the tournament (unlike the last World Cup of soccer, when there were less than two).



Here is a brief preview of the four qualifying Groups:



Group A - Host nation Australia would be tipped to win the group, but don't tell the Irish that. Argentina are also a strong side and will be hoping for an upset or two to pinch the second quarter final berth. Namibia and Romania will fight for the minor placings in this group.

Although Australia would be tipped to win the Group, the hosts are not playing well at the moment, having lost a home Test against England and home and away games against New Zealand in recent months. I would even suggest that they may be better off coming second in the group, making their likely finals opponents France, England and NZ in that order, rather than Scotland, NZ and England if they come first.



Group B - France are likely winners here, showing good form of late. Fiji and Scotland will fight it out for second place, with the Scots favoured to prevail. Japan and the USA round out the group.



Group C - The heavyweights in this group are South Africa and England. On form, England must be favoured to win the group, and are considered by many to be the best chance yet for a Northern Hemisphere nation to win the tournament, having beaten New Zealand (albeit narrowly and dare I say, not altogether convincingly) and Australia (comfortably) on a recent tour. I am cautious about their chances. By October and November, the Australian grounds will be dry, hard and lightning fast, and even in the evenings when most games are to be played it will be quite warm. The English side may have difficulty adapting to these conditions against top quality opposition. Samoa, Uruguay and Georgia are the other teams in this group.



Group D - Includes my personal tip to win the tournament, the New Zealand All Blacks, along with Wales, Italy, Tonga and Canada. With the possible exception of Canada, none of these teams are an easy prospect, and this I think is an important reason to tip NZ to win. They will have several hard games in the group, and the prospect of them building into peak form for the finals games is nothing short of electrifying. There are also few sights in world sport more awe-inspiring than wave after wave of All Blacks on the attack, and few sights more terrifying and soul-destroying if you happen to be backing the opposition. The hard and fast grounds will suit their style of play perfectly.

The Welsh and Italians will probably feel hard done by, being drawn in such a difficult group, and the struggle between them for the second qualifying spot should be a hard one. My tip is Wales to go through, but only just. Don't count the proud Tongans entirely out of the picture, either.



The tournament begins on October 10. Can't hardly wait.



Yes, I note that there is a Soccer/football thread, but it seems devoted to the round-ball religion. I thought I'd start a specific RWC thread to avoid any possible confusion. If Mods disagree, then so be it, and I'm sorry for causing any inconvenience. B

[FlyingPoppy]

Yeah, the rugby world cup. Yet another perk of having to stay at home!



Being an English kitty I'm quite excited by our form of late and do think we have a decent chance of winning, as long as we see off the South Africans in our group match, that'll bring a lot of confidence. The loss against France a few weeks ago by basically a second string English team hasn't dented my hopes, as our first team thrashed them the following week.

I thnk we have an inspiring captain in Johnno, though having left Austin Healey out we may miss his 'presence', yeah I know he's a nutter with a big mouth but I have a soft spot for him.

I can't wait for our first match on 12th Oct, but the big one is on the 18th against South Africa.

The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his dog...He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer; he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world...When all other friends desert, he remains. - George G. Vest

[dulcinea]

well, you can't have a rugby thread without a one-eyed, black jersey wearing kiwi. So, here I am.

personally, I'm still trying to recover from the semi-final loss to France in the last world cup . But I'm looking forward to it, especially after the boys bought home the Bledisloe in August. Of course, the world WILL end if the All Blacks don't come home with the cup. We've got a young team, and not returning with that bit of silverware could be a career killer for a few of them (and the coach).



Unfortunately, we don't have an easy run to the final. We're in an easy pool (for the AB's anyway!), but that doesn't help when we will be meeting South Africa, Aussie or England on the way to the final.



I don't know how I'd cope with another South African or Aussie win, but, as we all say here in NZ, as long as the English don't take the cup to the northern hemisphere.....we'd never hear the end of it (they'd think they actually played the game as well as us...god forbid!)

---

subtle salvation in poems we know, hiding our heads in a shadow of home,
now i wasn't looking for wreaths or for bells,
just someone to listen to stories i tell
."
stories I tell - Toad the Wet Sprocket

[FlyingPoppy]

Well I certainly won't be rubbing it in if by any miracle we really do win. I am realistic enough to know that the English are actually crap at sports, especially if we made them up in the first place....We look good before any major tournament, but when it comes down to it, we usually just don't try. I'm hoping this rugby squad will bring an end to that.

The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his dog...He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer; he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world...When all other friends desert, he remains. - George G. Vest

[KinKness]

Well I'm Not Really into Rugby But i understand the rules..

I hope the All Blacks win But Im pretty Sure Austraila Will

So Being a Austrailan myself.. Yay!!!...

BUt Maybe England will Win Pay back for Beating them at soccer .. once... (which i don't think we could EVER again)

[Triscuit7]

Here in the US we have a comic strip "Get Fuzzy" which features a somewhat nerdy guy and his two pets: a part Sharpei (wrinkley) dog named Satchel who is rather sweet & naive and a Siamese cat with one fang named Bucky who is never sweet. Of course Bucky and Satchel can talk - otherwise what's the point. Anyway, back a few months a strip ran that had Satchel wondering why international disputes were never settled by sporting matches. The human says "Bucky, you take that one." Bucky answered something to the effect "If that should ever happen, New Zealand would rule the world."



Not a bad idea, I think.



Go All Blacks!



Ciao, Melissa

******************



I brought marshmallows!

[Bagheera]

Only hours to go now. I was in Sydney last weekend and it looks like there's a lot of interest in the tournament, with flags and banners decorating the streets and shop windows stuffed with Rugby merchandise (naturally). Only one match tonight after the opening ceremony (Australia-Argentina). I expect the Wallabies to be nervous but they should win. The Pumas will do their best to spoil the party. This will however be just the entree, with no less than 7 games to follow over the weekend. New Zealand-Italy and France-Fiji will probably be the best games to watch, unless you would prefer to see England flattening Georgia (the country, not the US state).



B

"They fed me behind bars from an iron pan till one night I felt that I was Bagheera--the Panther-- and no man's plaything, and I broke the silly lock with one blow of my paw and came away." Rudyard Kipling

[dulcinea]

yep, we're ready. the TV is on, the drinks and snacks are in easy reach, and we're set for 6 weeks of action. Aussie v Argentina in a little while. I'm hoping for the upset, and backing Argentina to scrape in for a close win.



The build up on TVNZ has been pretty good - our household has just been primed for the action with a doco on the last 100 years of All Black test rugby. So now we're ready to hurl abuse at the tv, the refs, the coaches, the players, the crowd and each other. The mood swings that will accompany the games in the next few weeks will make PMS in a houseful of women seem like nothing.



Although I'm trying to keep low key about it all, it's hard not to be passionate about this game.



GO THE AB's!!!!

---

subtle salvation in poems we know, hiding our heads in a shadow of home,
now i wasn't looking for wreaths or for bells,
just someone to listen to stories i tell
."
stories I tell - Toad the Wet Sprocket

[Bagheera]

All right, the tournament is underway, but for the sake of the 4 billion or so tipped to watch the tournament around the world, let's hope the standard of games improves from tonight.



For the record, Australia won the opening game 24-8 against Argentina in a game notable for bursts of attacking play by the Wallabies let down time and again by handling errors. Still, if Australia were nervous, rushing their passes and dropping the ball, Argentina were dreadful, particularly in the first half. The Pumas were one-dimensional in attack, their lineouts were abysmal, they missed far too many tackles and their goal-kicking let them down repeatedly. The Irish will not be too concerned by Argentina as they set their sights on qualifying for the quarter-finals.



But whither the Wallabies? Some of the basics look good in their game. If they settle down a bit and improve in a few areas, they could go far in the tournament. Not too much there yet to frighten the All Blacks, though, but you never know...

"They fed me behind bars from an iron pan till one night I felt that I was Bagheera--the Panther-- and no man's plaything, and I broke the silly lock with one blow of my paw and came away." Rudyard Kipling

[Betinha]

Okay, I may not be much of a follower, but this year I'm following the cup. So having seen this thread, and as a South African born, I just want to add: GO SPRINGBOKS!



Let's see how things take off for us tommorrow!

[dulcinea]

All Blacks 70 Italy 7



all in all, not a bad first match. I was impressed with the Italians, they certainly have improved in the last four years - John Kirwan is doing a good job as coach (I have to say that, when I was growing up, I was a bit of a JK groupie!) They played good, open rugby, and their defence held up well against the kiwis.



As for the Blacks, considering they haven't played a match since August, they didn't do to badly. They certainly looked a bit better than the Aussies did last night, but time will tell. A few handling errors, and they were a bit too keen to get the ball out wide. The goal kicking is a bit of a worry though, and although didn't make a difference to the outcome of this match, when we meet some of the tougher teams (ie - England!!) we'll need Carlos Spencer, or my new favourite player, Dan Carter to be a bit more accurate.



but, still a few games to come tonight - Ireland v Romania next, France v Fiji and the Springboks v Uruguay later on. I'm hoping the Springboks do well.

---

subtle salvation in poems we know, hiding our heads in a shadow of home,
now i wasn't looking for wreaths or for bells,
just someone to listen to stories i tell
."
stories I tell - Toad the Wet Sprocket

[Bagheera]

Well, answering the promptings of the half a drop of green blood flowing in my veins, I went to the Central Coast Stadium on Saturday night to see Ireland play Romania. For the record, Ireland won comfortably 45-17, but it was good to see a spirited game with the Romanian team, although outclassed, giving their all. A big cheer went up when the Romanians were awarded a penalty try for a cynical push by an Irish defender, and an ever bigger hurrah when they scored their second try towards the end of the game.



Both during and after the game, Gosford was a sea of emerald. Irish accents abounded in the crowd, ranging from the simple, heartfelt "C'mon Ireland" to a more articulate message I overheard a raven-haired colleen shouting into her mobile phone immediately after the match:



"Hi, it's me. I'm in Australia, I've just seen Ireland play Romania, and Ireland won. And it's great. I've had about four fuckin' pints of wine and I'm after losin' all me mates." Shame she was talking to voice-mail. Earlier, the stands were treated to a blessing from a bishop whose robes were in the Irish tricolour. God, I love the Irish fans



Later, the crowd repaired to the pubs on Gosford's main street where the party continued until late in the night. Publicans reported running out of cider (?) but otherwise they knew what to expect and had laid in additional stocks of beer. Completely spoiled, the TV showed us footage of the France-Fiji match. The Irish cheered on the Fijians of whom it must be said that they looked threatening until they were let down by ill discipline and the French promptly punished them with a series of tries late in the match.



Looking ahead in the tournament, Ireland and Australia looked equally scratchy, and they will both be hoping to improve before their crucial meeting in a couple of weeks. New Zealand look ominous, even if they didn't rack up a century against Six Nations pretenders Italy. From their early, easy wins, it's quite difficult to pick a winner out of England and South Africa. That will be a huge game. Wales and Scotland both failed to look convincing in beating Canada and the valiant Japanese respectively. They look likely for the quarter finals, but probably no further than that.



B.

[FlyingPoppy]

I agree it's hard to pick a winner between England and South Africa. I think our lads did well on Sunday, taking into account the conditions. Our handling wasn't the best, but like I said, that was probably (hopefully) down to the slippery conditions. The scoreline certainly doesn't do justice to the Georgian team, it was a lot tougher than that suggests. We have a couple of injury worries for Saturday's big game, but nothing like the NZ team's. I really felt for some of those guys!

I have to say well done to the US team on nearly pulling off a shock victory over Fiji, it has to have been the most exciting game so far. More acccurate kicking would have won the game. I know to start with the games are usually one sided, but it's so much better to watch a closer match.

I've just heard on the news that our scrum-halfs, who were all injury doubts, have declared themselves fit, so poor Martyn Wood is on his way back home again after flying all the way to Australia as emergency cover!

The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his dog...He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer; he will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world...When all other friends desert, he remains. - George G. Vest

[Bagheera]

Completely agree about USA vs Fiji. The Americans came so close in what was definitely the game of the tournament to that point.



Well, England vs. South Africa just finished and it was England by 25-6. Great first half play by South Africa, but they fell away in the second half. I can only describe the move by South Africa that led to England's only try of the game as a brain explosion - what were SA doing trying to kick from that position? And Wilkinson is a phenomenon.



At the moment the quarter finals look like this:

1: New Zealand vs. South Africa

2: Australia vs. Scotland

3: France vs. Ireland

4: England vs. Wales



The dark horses in the pools are Samoa, who have looked good in their one game so far, and Argentina, who will need to defeat the Irish to reach the QFs. The draw looks likely to place 4 Northern Hemisphere nations in the lower half of the draw and the three Southern Hemisphere nations in the top half. On form, England look very, very likely to reach the final with this scenario. Wales will lose their quarter-final, and the French will need to play out of their skins in the semi-final to have any chance of stopping England. The only question now is: can any side beat them?



Well, looking at the way England play the game, the only team with a decent chance looks for mine to be the All Blacks. South Africa tonight showed that by being very physical at the breakdown and slowing down the recycling of ball, England can be pressured into making mistakes. I can't see Australia being able to play that sort of rugby against the giant English forwards; SA showed they can do it for 40 minutes only, not 80, but the All Blacks - maybe.

[FlyingPoppy]

Hmm, that was a decidedly dodgy performance this morning by the England boys. I would imagine the Kiwis and Aussies will be greatly pleased by it. Everyone was coming out of position, we were all trying to get in the centre of play, so whenever Wilkinson got the ball he had nowhere to run and very few kicking options because people were in his way. His kicking was off and no one else was playing very well either. I think after that performance all the big guns will be thinking they can beat us, probably a lot of the so-called minnows too. I have to say well done to Samoa though, their defence was excellent for the most part today.



A big congrats to the Irish as well for their vengence against the Argies, it's a sweet feeling

Life can suck, but at least there's chocolate - Cicca

[Bagheera]

I agree that England's performance against Samoa will make the finals series a lot more even, but it's one thing to note the weaknesses of a side, and another thing to be able to exploit those weaknesses enough to win the game. Even with Wilkinson having an off night and other players buckling under pressure, a win is still a win. This is one of the measures of a quality side. Think back to previous World Cups: Australia had a couple of shaky games in both of their winning campaigns; and on the other hand, the hottest side of the 1995 Cup, New Zealand, fell away in the final after being unstoppable up to that point.



On to other news.



Responding to the half a wee dram of tartan blood in my veins, I went to see Scotland play France on Saturday night. The result was eminently forgettable from a Scottish point of view. Their worst-ever defeat by France; no tries, no inspiration, no hope. Not even a crowd of 78,000, 90% of them roaring the Scots on, could inspire them. I'm not exaggerating when I say that their performance was more flabby than Romania's against Ireland. At least the Romanians knew they were up against it and decided to have a go. Perhaps the Scots went into their game with a negative attitude, knowing they were not going to win and aiming to minimise fatigue and injuries to keep enough in reserve for their last game. To a point they held the French for the first 30 minutes, but in the most negative way possible - by kicking possession away at every opportunity. By the time France had built up a nigh-unbeatable lead early in the second half, the Scots finally tried to run the ball a few times, but either their attack was too predictable or the French defence was too good, they never even looked like scoring a try. The crowd gave up on Scotland by midway through the second half. They acknowledged the French brilliance with warm applause and the Mexican wave circled the ground time and again; spurred on it must be said, by the desolate fans at the far end of the field (the end Scotland were attacking) - it was the only thing left for them to do.



The French au contraire looked good. Great, in fact. Good speed in the backs, resolute in the forwards and some simply astonishing ball skills. They are en route to meeting England in the semi-final and if they continue to play this well and they learn the lessons from the South Africans and Samoans, they will give England one hell of a match. But at this point I would still lean 60:40 to England to win that one. Note that I don't give Wales so much as a sniff to beat the English in their quarter final. Scotland meanwhile will have to improve significantly to avoid defeat by Fiji in their final pool match. The winner of that game looks destined to meet the Wallabies in the quarter finals - unless Ireland can pull off a minor miracle this weekend. Unlikely from the look of their game against Argentina.

"They fed me behind bars from an iron pan till one night I felt that I was Bagheera--the Panther-- and no man's plaything, and I broke the silly lock with one blow of my paw and came away." Rudyard Kipling

[FlyingPoppy]

Well, the final is going to be England v Australia, should be a great game. I think today against the French, we coped better with the poor conditions. Their kicking was terrible and once again we came through in the 2nd half. I can't really believe that Australia beat the All Blacks yesterday, I was pretty sure it was going to be an England/New Zealand final. Still it should be a cracking game.

Life can suck, but at least there's chocolate - Cicca

[T Maclay]

I still cant believe that the All Blacks are out, and to Aussie of all people, being a kiwi and all, it was quite deversating. Although I am looking forward to watching the All Black V France game. And I am so hoping for a England win in the final.

Bored-Now

Edited by: T Maclay at: 11/19/03 3:01 am

[Bagheera]

Completely agree that England played all over France in difficult conditions. France were terrible in most areas, not just kicking. Their discipline was an utter disgrace.



In the other semi, New Zealand, like the French, played their worst game of the tournament. It was a case of the Australians performing at or near their potential, but more importantly playing to a plan. They dismantled the All Blacks' game plan systematically, and unfortunately the New Zealanders had no alternative strategy.



Looking ahead to the Final, it might be a cracking game, but only if the Wallabies play as well as or better than they did last Saturday. England's game plan is so simple but they execute it so well that it will take an extraordinary effort to stop them from winning. No team has managed to hold the English for more than 40 minutes at a stretch, and that is not enough. One key point that I am sure has not escaped notice by the tacticians is this: time after time, teams that have to do a great deal of tackling in the first half end up losing the game. It happened to Wales vs. England (they were ahead on the scoreboard at half time but they came out after the break with no fuel left in the tank), it happened to France vs. England and it happened to New Zealand vs. Australia. Therefore: unless field position is completely hopeless, Australia will not kick possession away in the first twenty minutes. Unless it's raining, in which case you might as well give the trophy to England before kick-off anyway.



My tip for the Final: I've given up, it depends who wants it more on the night. And that is completely unpredictable. I thought New Zealand would steamroll the Wallabies, as much for the quality of their play in the lead-up games as for how much Rugby success means to the All Blacks. New Zealand - desperately - need to win another World Cup. But the strange thing is that when the Wallabies and the All Blacks lined up to play for the right to be in the Final, it was the Australians who wanted it more. How keenly do the English want to avenge their loss in the Final in 1991? How much do the Australians want to keep the trophy?

[FlyingPoppy]

England managed to score a drop goal in the last minute of extra time to win 20-17, after leading 14-5 at half time. Well done lads!!! I have to say my heart is firmly in my mouth though after such a tense match.



I think the referee had an awful game, but I guess that doesn't matter now.

Life can suck, but at least there's chocolate - Cicca

[kajo 2000]

Congratulations to England!!!



World Champions 2003



Jonny Wilkinson & Jason Robinson rock!!!

---------

"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

Edited by: kajo 2000 at: 11/22/03 11:37 am

[T Maclay]

It was a great game to watch.



Well done ENGLAND!!!!!!

WANT SOMEWHERE TO ADVERTISE YOUR WEBSITECHECK HERE

Bored-Now

[dulcinea]

NOOOO.......it can't be...



four years...another four years and NZ can have another go at the cup. 1987 seems like such a long time ago.



but as I predicted earlier in the thread, the All Blacks going home without making the final and winning, would ruin several careers. The coach has already lost the coaching job, and I think it will be the end of Rueben Thorne's career as an all black.



but, as much as it pains me, congrats to England.

---

subtle salvation in poems we know, hiding our heads in a shadow of home,
now i wasn't looking for wreaths or for bells,
just someone to listen to stories i tell
."
stories I tell - Toad the Wet Sprocket

[MOUSE]

Well done England. The better team on the night won. As an Aussie, I have to admit our boys just made too many errors.

I would have preferred to see the poms play in our normal dry and warm conditions, then the welcoming rain.

But, it was still a great game. And our boys did really well to keep battling on, and keep the game level. At the start I thought the Wallabies were in for a flogging. It was amazing to see the game in overtime.

The whole night was exciting, and in the end everyone was happy they witnessed and hosted such a wonderful event.

Again congrats England.

We had to let you win something. (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

[amberbensontotallyrules4e]

Oh yeah, we won!!! Uh huh, oh yeah. Okay, so still a little over-exited. Its so nice to know that England are still good at at least one of our sports. Cos as much as we try to kid ourselves, the football team's no longer one of the world's best. Dammit.

Good game Australia! After about the first quarter of the game, it looked like you were gonna get a thrashing, but you fought back and brought a final that people deserved to see. A battle to the end, that's the way it should be. Elton Flatley- 4/5 (that's right isn't it?) ain't bad but it son't win ya a world cup.

As much as I may be biased, I think the better team won, and although the points that won it came off Wilko's boot, the game wasn't really won by him. I think we proved to the doubters that we're not just a one man team, and everyone played well.

It was the first penalty of Wilko's that proved we were gonna win it tho, 48 yards. Superb.

Kudos Australia, good match.

We are the champions, we are the champions!!!

Rachel



Needless to say, there was much alcohol consumption last night, I dont think I've recovered yet!!!!





(he's so cute!!!)



Congrats England- we deserve it!

*****************************************************************

"I can't explain what I don't understand, time's slipping through my hands, as the seconds turn to yesterdays..." ~ Rachel Stevens

[BigGayBear]

Rugby, the game played by men with funny shaped balls.



A little late maybe, but anyways...



COME ON YOU ENGERRRRRLAND



GERRINTHEREMYSON



ok, I now have my inner bloke out of my system. I thank you.



Whoo!



Al

~Cuteness is more than just a TeddyBear thing~