Civil Partnership advice

[samslover]

Ok sorry if this is in the wrong place or was already brought up. I live in the USA and my gf lives in the UK. I want to register to become her civil partner in the UK but i'm not sure exactly how to go about it. I've been on the www.britainusa.com website and printed out the instructions. Is there a legal person i should go see such as an immigration lawyer? Has anyone gone through the process that could help me? I would greaty apprecate any help. Thank you!

*I LOVE YOU BABY!!

[Candleshoe]

oooh....I can tell you about the registration bit, but not the immigration bit.

Back in a bit!

*runs off to be research gal*

[Candleshoe]

OK - back now. I got the slightly bored Family Law partner to look it all up for me. She gave me waaay too much information, so I have boiled it down to the essentials!

You will be subject to the usual immigration control in this country, and you can gain entry clearance under the usual rules and visas. You will need to ensure that your clearance is for the express purpose of forming a civil partnership, though.

Alternatively you can seek the written permission of our Home Office to enter the country for the purpose of forming a civil partnership. This seems to involve a form and a fee, and be a lot more straightforward than it sounds!

Once here, you need to have resided here for 7 days before you can give the required 15 day notice that you both wish to register your partnership.

You need to see an immigration specialist in your part of the world, and your partner needs to do some research at this end (doing the paperwork, booking the venues, choosing the flowers, ordering enough tequila, that sort of thing). The General Register Office has some information for her. The stuff this side of the pond can be done without a lawyer, but you may need to see someone who knows what they are doing....

Hope this helps. Congratulations, and good luck. Shout if you need anything else!

[samslover]

Thank you so much for your help. Will i need to stay there for the 15 day notice as well?! I was just there for two weeks but that was just for a visit. You guys really do have a beautiful country! My gf lives in nottingham, is that any where near you?! I really appreciate your time!

[Candleshoe]

Nottingham is a bit near me - but then everything is "a bit near" in comparison with the size of the US!

You will need to stay for the 15 day notice period, as you need to get married at the end of it!

I would certainly advise you to think about the immigration bit, before dealing with the civil partnership. You may want to look at getting some sort of longer term visa, and then, while you are here and after you have got married, you can look at extending the visa on the basis that you are wanting to stay with your partner.

All this is assuming that you want to live in this rain-soaked, no-available-jobs country - if you don't, she needs to think about moving to the US instead!

I really should point out that registering a civl partnership is a very big step, and has far-reaching effects across your finances, tax situation, assets, any children you or she may have or will have in the future, and what happens after you die. You need to think very carefully about whether you are happy with someone else having that kind of claim on you and your life!

Civil partnership can only be brought to an end by dissolution or anullment. Dissolution is like divorce (with the usual financial wrangling and costs) and could leave you with less than you had when you went into the relationship. Anullment is only relevant if either of you are under the age of consent for marriage (18) or cannot give informed consent.

OK - lawyer-y bit over! Hope I didn't sound too stern!

You do need to see an immigration specialist, even if only to make sure that you are filling in the right forms! It is likely to take quite a while to finalise everything - so don't hold your breath to be in by the London Olympics. I'm joking, our red-tape isn't usually that bad....

Hope this helps but again, shout if you need anything!

[sam]

Hi.
I'm the gf in Nottingham
Candleshoe, thank you so much for all of your help..we really appreciate it. We have thought about me moving to the US [I've always wanted to since i was little] but that is way too hard at the moment..believe me we've tried already =[
So, thank you again. Love sam xox

[Candleshoe]

You are very welcome! If you need any more help, give me a yell (or a PM if you have lost the megaphone). I deal with property and wills mostly, but I am a jack of all trades when I need to be!

Take care, both of you, and good luck!

PS: The non-stern lawyer-y bit applies to you too, Sam!

[kisstheviolets]

PS: The non-stern lawyer-y bit applies to you too, Sam!

i rather liked the stern lawyer-y bits....

[Candleshoe]

You would, honey, you would...

[samslover]

Candleshoe I was wondering if there would be any way you could maybe look into my girl moving here? I know how hard it is to immigrate to this country but maybe we over-looked something. I would really appreciate your time. I would also understand if you couldn't. It's just that i know she really wants to live here with me and i already own a townhouse and have been in the same job f/t for 8 years. I don't know anymore im just grabbing at straws..grr! Thank you so much for all your time!!

[kisstheviolets]

she'd have to immigrate the usual ways. even if you were civilly partnered in the u.k., the u.s. government wouldn't recognize it for purposes of immigration. hmmph. that pesky defense of marriage act...

[Candleshoe]

I am going to be agreeing with kisstheviolets here, as she clearly knows more about it than me. I have absolutely no idea about the US process! I would assume that if Sam has relevant skills that can be transferred and are needed in the US, it may not be impossible.

A quick Google suggests that the US Citizenship and Immigration Services (governmental) site and the US Immigration Support (independant) site seem to have a comprehensive pile of information. I have no idea if it is actually helpful, but they seem as good a place as any to start!

My only experience of leaving this country involves a friend emigrating to go to Australia - and that took years. She now sends me sun-soaked photos of happy people, though, so it seems to have been worth it!

[Boschi]

Okay, this is a total downer topic given the beginning of this thread, and I apologize for that, but with all the free legal advice flying I thought it might be the place for my question. Feel free to also take this as a burning blight of a real world example of Candleshoes stern words.

I live in the U.S. in a state without civil union recognition.
I just yesterday had to write up, sign, get notarized, etc. a sort of divorce decree/affidavit in order to nullify an "Affidavit of Spousal Equivalency" that my ex and I signed back in '98. The affidavit was signed as part of the process of putting her on my health insurance at work. (To clarify we considered ourselves married prior to this - it was not something done simply to get insurance).

My question is this - she and I both now have signed, notarized copies of the second affidavit (the "divorce"). The first affidavit is on file in the place I was employed in '98 (and no longer am) and with the insurance company (which I am no longer insured through).

It seems to me that since we both have proof that the other agrees that the relationship and all it's various responsibilities, commitments, etc. is now over that we are free and clear. But at the same time, there is this random document out there (with my old employer and with the health insurance company, and god knows where else) that states that we are "Spousal Equivalents" (such a romantic term...).

Is there any way this could come back to haunt either of us? It's not like we can go down to the local govt. offices and register the divorce... there was no official marriage to begin with. Notifying my former employer or insurer also seems silly as I am no longer a concern of theirs.

Thoughts?

Bleh. I am the anti-poster child for gay marriage. Sorry for the downer folks.

- Boschi

[Candleshoe]

Oh, I'm sorry Boschi. I always hope my dire warnings are just the ramblings of an over-cautious mind, and I hate it when life actually sucks just as much as I expect it to.

To clarify: I am not a US lawyer (I'm a UK one), kisstheviolets will be (and students always know more than actual lawyers) and will have a better answer I am sure. I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in anyway though...Can I first ask: did the original affidavit specifically refer to the health insurance, or was the wording more general? If it was specific to that policy, and that policy has been terminated, then there is no problem.

If it was more general, then my gut instinct is that because affidavits represent the situation at the time, anyone trying to prove that it was still true would have difficulty because both you and your ex-partner would disagree (and have paperwork to prove it). It would only come up if she tried to claim on your health insurance policy, right? So I'm guessing that she wouldn't, and you wouldn't let her. And presumably vice versa...

If you know where the copies of the original document are, you could try writing and requesting the paperwork back, if it is no longer required by the insurance company etc. Alternatively, you could simply explain the situation and request that a copy of the new paperwork be lodged with the old, for the sake of clarity.

If i were you I would probably write to the people who should be told and send them a copy, and keep the original somewhere safe so that you can wave it if the topic ever comes up!

And now I shall scurry away so that the real lawyers can have a say...

[Boschi]

The affidavit was not specific to the policy and stated that we were in a committed relationship that we viewed as life-long. (I don't have a copy of it sitting here, so I'm paraphrasing).

I can't actually think of a specific potential problem, it just irritates me that there is what amounts to a loose end out there - I want this all tidied away and done with.

Having spent time as a researcher, with access to all sorts of fascinating databases of folks personal info, I am also perpetually paranoid of how far and where information travels.

Could our spousal equivalence status be on file somewhere and result in a lien against me if she goes in to debt? Yes, I could clear it up by waving my little divorcy paper, but I'd have to bother with clearing it up. Which again, irritates me. (Whine, snivel...)

Thanks for your thoughts Candleshoe, and for the kind words. The break up itself was a while ago and I am at peace with it now. What remains more than a hurt about the relationship is a burned pride. As vain as it is I wanted to be an example of a gay relationship that worked. Ah, vanity...

But I digress. Thanks again and regards, and apologies to samslover and sam for bringing a shadow to accounts of an apparently very bright and rather appallingly cute relationship I wish you two nothing but the best, wherever you end up.

Boschi.

[Candleshoe]

I can tell you are revoltingly happy now Boschi (look at me, all psychic from my trip to the happy feelings thread!) but the loose ends are always rather annoying, aren't they! I can't think of any way of tieing them up in your situation off the top of my head. A second affidavit to reverse the first is the usual way to go, and you've already done that! I will keep thinking, though....

The amount of information lurking in the world startles me too. I won't keep thinking about that, if you don't mind...

[kisstheviolets]

I don't know that I have much to add to Candleshoe's answer to your querie Boschi. You have the new affidavit and that obviously trumps the initial one. I can't imagine that anything will arise if neither of you are even on that policy anymore, though I agree with Candleshoe that you should file the new affidavit with the former insurer to be on the safe side. If I remember correctly, you live in a state that passed an anti same-sex marriage constitutional amendment last year, right? Is that the same state you executed the spousal equivalency in? If so, both documents are probably rather pointless now and I'd doubt you'd have anything to worry about in terms of being responsible for any debt or anything, unless you were a joint holder of an account (particularly if you're in a state which won't recognize any instruments attempting to provide the incidentals of marriage). You'd have to be registered with a domestic partner registry (if your state or municipality has one) for anyone other than your insurer to find a connection between your ex and you (again, provided you weren't joint holders of accounts). So I'd say just see if the insurer will give you the original back (I doubt they will) or file the new affidavit with them. I think you'll be fine.