Coming Out Thread

[xita]

Post here if you have any issues around coming out to friends, family or even yourself. Also share any good resources you may have.

[willntarra4eva]

So I'm 16 and I have a problem....

There's this girl im completly in love with but shes m best friend...

What should I do?

How did you handle it?

I dunno...

I feel completly alone in this situation...

I've never been with a girl so i don't know how to handle it... I just feel so alone though...

[diamondforever]

Hey willntarra4va,

I'm with you there! Rest assured, you're not alone. I am part of a Baptist Christian family, and so it makes it extremely difficult to come out. I'd love for them to know, but I know that it would break their hearts and I couldn't stand to do that to them. Makes it hard to have a relationship too.

But it's great to bounce it off of friends that you know will support you. I told my ex-boyfriend that I had come to the realization that I was bi shortly after we broke up for other reasons, and he's been one of the best people to go to for support and advice. Also, I had a huge crush on one of my friends last year, and she one day revealed to me that she was bisexual. Unfortunately, it didn't really work out between us - which was probably for the better because we're a lot closer than we were then.

I wonder what it would be like to be with a girl, and then I wonder how I could ever juggle both my religion and my sexuality when it is a huge issue to those that are closest to my heart.

For advice, however, I would say that actions speak louder than words (although words will no doubt be important). Until you're ready to share your feelings with her, do what you can for her as a best friend. I live by this advice as I am in the exact same situation as you.

Best of luck!

[Eu Tus Ojos]

I suppose it's not an issue with my family, but with me; I don't want to 'admit' it.

I actually hate the idea of being a... lesbian. (God, I don't even want to type it. ). It involves complications for me, which I don't want or need right now. It seriously disrupts my life plans and the idea of having a relationship, as I highly doubt there's many lesbians where I live. Not to to mention that I may be moving, thus, the idea of starting anything with anyone may be pointless because I'd have to leave them quite soon.

I don't want to do any 'coming out' scene or anything of the sort, because I don't want this. I hate it, I hate the idea and hate that it chose me. Or I chose it. I am a virgin, so I wonder if it's just that I've never been with a guy and maybe would be okay with it? Well, except for the fact that I don't find men attractive in that sense, especially not the ones in my area, blech. I want to be able to find a guy and do the whole 'happily ever after' thing, and have a nice suburban home, with two daughters, a cat and possibly hamsters. But if I don't want this man, and the man has to be replaced with a woman, I can't have that dream. Or can I?

I can't see myself being pregnant and hey - those two girls' may have to be adoptees. With two mothers! I would actually feel guilty for that, yes, guilty. I know it's utterly insane and there's not really anything to feel guilty about - but I'd feel guilty for not giving the child a 'perfect' childhood.

My family: The strange thing is, I know they'd be fine with it all (particularly my father's side). There's already gay people in my family, which I oddly, have a disliking to. I don't know how to explain all this, but I;d rather be the 'only gay' in my family, rather than just another family queer. In short - I wish I could cure myself, of this, and well, everything else.

That was incredibly long, apologies for that. I guess I had to say all that, though I do have a counselor to share all this with (don't ask). But I guess it had to be typed, as it's harder for me to say all this.

Okay, wangst fest over with!

[Kieli]

I suppose it's not an issue with my family, but with me; I don't want to 'admit' it.

I actually hate the idea of being a... lesbian. (God, I don't even want to type it. ). It involves complications for me, which I don't want or need right now. It seriously disrupts my life plans and the idea of having a relationship, as I highly doubt there's many lesbians where I live. Not to to mention that I may be moving, thus, the idea of starting anything with anyone may be pointless because I'd have to leave them quite soon.

I don't want to do any 'coming out' scene or anything of the sort, because I don't want this. I hate it, I hate the idea and hate that it chose me. Or I chose it. I am a virgin, so I wonder if it's just that I've never been with a guy and maybe would be okay with it? Well, except for the fact that I don't find men attractive in that sense, especially not the ones in my area, blech. I want to be able to find a guy and do the whole 'happily ever after' thing, and have a nice suburban home, with two daughters, a cat and possibly hamsters. But if I don't want this man, and the man has to be replaced with a woman, I can't have that dream. Or can I?

I can't see myself being pregnant and hey - those two girls' may have to be adoptees. With two mothers! I would actually feel guilty for that, yes, guilty. I know it's utterly insane and there's not really anything to feel guilty about - but I'd feel guilty for not giving the child a 'perfect' childhood.

My family: The strange thing is, I know they'd be fine with it all (particularly my father's side). There's already gay people in my family, which I oddly, have a disliking to. I don't know how to explain all this, but I;d rather be the 'only gay' in my family, rather than just another family queer. In short - I wish I could cure myself, of this, and well, everything else.

Wow, now there's something you don't see every day. Someone writing in a coming out thread about wanting to be cured of the disease of being gay. I'm trying to put a severe damper on my sarcasm and be open-minded but it's quite difficult. I wonder, do you know if there is a definition for the "perfect childhood"? Because I guarantee you being straight does not guarantee your children that. Not...at...all. In country where the divorce rate is one of the highest and single parent homes are becoming more prevalent, I'd have to say, your logic is severely flawed. Maybe you already know this. Maybe you simply want someone to say that it's ok if you prefer to be straight. That's fine if you want to be straight; it's your choice. I do, however, take issue with gay = diseased or less than normal (whatever the heck that is....normalcy has never been really all that cut and dried and tends to waver quite a bit).

In essence, you don't want to come out. You want to be different from the rest of the queers in your family; stand out instead of "blend in" (and what queer wouldn't want that family...to not be ostracized or thrown out into the street because they're considered the abnormal one in the bunch). Your post doesn't give anyone wanting to come out any hope whatsoever. It merely reinforces what the rest of society would prefer we do. Get cured, get over it, have kids and be like the rest of the world.

I hope you find whatever makes you happy because it's clear that you're currently NOT happy. You could talk to Jerry Falwell and Focus on the Family. I hear they've had LOTS of success curing gays

[Boschi]

Wow. This thread sure got meaty quickly!

Eu Tus Ojos -

Disclaimers:

1) I'm in no way, shape or form a mental health professional or expert on issues of sexuality or gender.

2) I don't know you from Adam, or Adelaide, or whatever.

That being said I will admit to a certain appreciative fascination with your post.
Wow - so many potential questions and avenues.

What about being a lesbian is revolting to you? I mean that as a sincere question. Is it based in your perception of your gay family members? In your familys reaction to them? "Acceptance" can take many forms, some of them limited, presumptive, or judgemental.
Is it about the fact that you believe it threatens a future you want?
Do you not like how gays in your history have acted or been perceived?

Or is it an internal reaction?
Dislike of being perceived as a lesbian? Dislike of the thought of the physical act of lesbian sex? Distrust of the emotions other women may stir up in you?

I mean it's spooky, this intimacy/love/sex thing. No matter what. I know I've had times in my life when all of it just struck me as unseemly - the risks, the emotional roller coaster, the sharing of my space in the world. Being involved with someone else was a real threat to my identity.
That didn't stop me from being attracted to people, just from being involved with them. In my particular case, that meant celibacy.

So I was stuck with the inconvienience of these desires, and a bit of loneliness, that I really just wanted to go away. I just waited it out until I had a more secure place in the world and happened to meet someone that made me feel like the world was a better place with her near me.

At anyrate, I assume that your uncomfortability stems from a combo of things.

I guess I think you should try to narrow down a little some of the background behind your dislike of the notion of being lesbian. I get that there is a general "Ick", but even if a deep personal sensation that it is wrong for you is the basis for that "Ick" reaction, I still think you should more specifically prop up or knock down the possible rationales behind it.

And it sounds like you may be doing that with a counselor. So good for you.

I will say that I have a general "Ick" reaction to heterosexuality at times. It's just not right for me. I try to be aware of it. I try to think about some of the possible reasons and make sure I have an idea of where it comes from.

(And at times I've had an "Ick" reaction to gatherings of lesbians. I've looked around and thought "this is not my tribe". And then I realize that they don't have to be. This whole queer thing is sort of a cross-tribe thing, ya know? )

At anyrate - maybe homosexuality or bisexuality isn't right for you. Maybe a heterosexual identity is really important to you. I'll offer up a huge disclaimer that I know absolutely nothing about trans-culture or process, but it occurred that maybe you want that house and two daughters with a husband and wife... and you don't have to be the wife. I don't know. I don't mean to offer that as a "quick fix" at all - it's a huge, complicated thing to be approached, if you care to, awfully slowly and carefully.

In the end you are stuck making your own life, not sliding in to roles already existent. It can be a frigging pain in the ass at times.

Keep in mind we're all doing the same. I'll back up Keili and say that there are no ideal families, no roles to claim that give you the right to say you've "won" in life.

A heterosexual couple that stays married, has a nice house, and two lovely daughters can still be completely disfunctional. It's about the people that make the family - about how they negotiate their own loves, fears and selves.

Before you decide to shape yourself around what you want to have in the future, keep in mind that who you are won't be convieniently changed to match that. The best gift you can give any child is an effort on your part to examine yourself and work towards your own happiness and worth.

A family often perpetuates the values of the people that make it up - their values, emotional habits, their strengths and weaknesses. A child in a family where the parent(s) feel fulfilled is more likely to find fulfillment, or at least a little security while they figure it out.

You deserve the same thing, you know - fulfillment and a little security. Your role in life isn't limited to providing that to someone else, be it a child, a man or another woman.

Regards,

Boschi

ETA: just a clarification that lovely, fulfilled people can come from wildly dysfunctional familites - it's just a rough road along the way sometimes.

2ndETA: Oh my god, why does anyone allow me to ramble on like this? Please, please somebody shut me up before the platitude police come and take me away....

[Eu Tus Ojos]

Gosh, so many questions. I feel special.

I think my whole 'I don't want this' factor comes from a variety of things. Namely, childhood, family and my general experiences.

The whole realisation was well, not anything I can really put into words. For years I didn't think about my sexuality whatsoever. I will say that some odd things in my childhood may have brought about a generalised 'ick' when it comes to sex in general. It's rather, complicated. I do tend to have a bit of a distrusting nature towards people in general, and I will admit the idea of a whole relationship, including sex, freaks me out a little.

The whole 'happy families' thing - I guess I want that because I didn't have the happy families atmosphere. I did come from the single parent home (mother dead) and I didn't have the 'perfect' childhood. So I suppose I want to give that 'perfect' childhood to someone else. But then there's the fact that I don't know if I even want children, or if I could actually be pregnant and give birth without complications. And frankly, I think the happy families fantasy is just that, a fantasy that's unattainable and something that perhaps only a small part of me truly wants. What I want? Maybe find a nice girl and get married (legally, I'm from Britain) and adopt a child. Everything in between I don't quite know how to handle right now.

'Perfectly normal' family ideals are just that though, ideals, that no one can possibly live up to (men and women included). Of course the 50's ideal was actually, in comparison to the generations that came before, incredibly untraditional. But I'm getting off topic.

About the transgender issue - that's most definitely not it. Trust me, I'm very happy being a girl!

[Nikka]

Coming out... That's a biggie for me. I just recently started to come out, and only to a few select people. I have no problem admitting I'm gay here on the internet, to complete strangers, my real problem is out here.

I've never been interested in boys, y'know? That's not something I thought about. I grew up a tomboy, playing with my brother and male cousins. It never even crossed my mind I could be gay. Then bam! I started wondering. Of course I the first thing I did was to try and deny it. I went out with this guy and he kissed me... And I felt nothing but nervousness and a mild nausea. I didn't like it, it felt wrong. I didn't try it again. Actually, since then I haven't gone out with anybody, but now I feel somewhat more comfortable with my sexuality. I'm gay. Even if I can't find the courage to really come out. I'm trying, though.

My worst fear is being rejected by my parents and close friends. I've heard some terrible stories about parents throwing their gay kids out of the house, friendships meeting a messy end... Suffice to say I was scared out of my mind, still am in fact.

I have a really good relationship with my mom, we're very close. I knew she didn't have a problem with gay people (she does have gay friends, after all), but I was still scared to death. I tried hinting around, to see if she would guess it. I didn't have the courage to actually say it. It was killing me not being able to tell her. One day, I just had a breakdown and she kinda coaxed it out of me. Turned out she already suspected it. She was so great about it, I can scarcely believe it. She said all she wanted was for me to be happy, no matter what. God, I have such a great mom. I was so relieved.

I only came out to two other people: my best friend and a good friend from college. If I was scared when I told my mom, I was absolutely terrified to tell my best friend. She's been my friend for almost eight years now and we're like sisters. I wouldn't know what to do without her. I'd been feeling guilty for hiding such a big part of me from her, so I decided to take a deep breath and tell her. We were chatting on MSN and, after a lot of procrastination, I blurted it out. I was too chicken to do it in person. Pathetic, huh? I couldn't bear to look in her face and tell her. Thank God she reacted so well. She was surprised as hell, but told me she would always be there for me. We went to the movies the following weekend and she hugged the stuffing out of me. Said she was proud that I trusted her enough to tell her.

Then came this friend from college one day and point blank asks me if I'm a lesbian. I think I stared at him dumbly for almost five minutes. He made it no secret he was gay and then suddenly decided to ask if I was too. Gawd, that sure blindsided me. We've met in the beginning of this year, when we both started college, and I feel very comfortable with him. So, I told the truth, that yes, I am a lesbian. Since then we've been closer and I'm glad for it.

Now I need to come out to my dad and siblings. I don't know how they'll react. I really don't. My dad, I don't think he has a problem with homosexuality in general, but when it's one of his kids, I don't know what he'll think. He's kinda old-fashioned, ex-military, and stubborn as a mule. We're very alike in that aspect. I'm not as close to him as I am my mom, I'm not sure what daddy dearest will have to say about my being gay.

My siblings, well... I don't think my brother will give me a hard time, the kid has a good head on his shoulders. Now my little sister... That one will be a bit harder. I think that for some reason she doesn't like gays. Not that she's a homophobe, but that she doesn't understand it, so she kinda rejects it. She's 11. We have an ok enough relationship, but we keep arguing for the silliest things. And I have an older half-sister too. She's almost twice my age and she's not around much. I love her and I'd like for her to accept me, but I have no idea what she would think.

I think I'll wait until I get a girlfriend to tell them, which I'm not sure will be any time soon. I know no other lesbians my age, I have no gaydar whatsoever and no idea how to go about meeting some. My university doesn't have a GLBT org, which would possibly make things easier. I don’t even necessarily want a girlfriend right now, but some friends to talk to would sure be nice. I know it’s irrational, I have some good friends, but I feel kinda alone. *sigh* What to do, what to do...

[umgaynow]

Something people never want to admit...there is no such thing as a perfect childhood or a perfect family...all families are dysfunctional in one way or another and to one degree or another...if you think your family is fine then you are just so repressed that you can't admit that everything is not fine...human beings are flawed creatures and the only place that perfect family exists is in 1950s TV shows...

Also you may want to get back in your time machine and go back to the 1950s where your opinions would fit better with the general public and medical and psychological professions...consult any contemporary medical text and you will see that homosexuality is not considered a disease or mental defect or any other sort of defect...it is just one outcome of the million dice tosses of that crapshoot they call genetics...would you hate a puppy because it was born with yellow fur when the rest of its litter mates were white or brown? Being born gay is no different...

You can't be "cured" of being gay because it is not a disease...you also cannot choose to be straight...the only choice is whether or not to be true to yourself and who you really are or to allow society and your own ingrained homophobia to make you hate yourself for being who you really are and force you into living a miserable lie instead of a real life...

You might want to take a closer look at why you are so appalled and sickened at the idea of being queer...I think you'll find your self-loathing is a much larger issue...being gay is about loving...it's not about just sex...you could go your whole life without being physically intimate with a member of your own gender, you'd still be gay...nor is it unnatural, as it appears in near constant percentages in all species...besides which, anything that appears in nature is by definition natural...these are all facts that you can find in black and white in any decent library...

Knowledge is power and you can't change who you were born to be...facts are facts...

The preceding rant has been brought to you by the letter Q...

Sandi

[Eu Tus Ojos]

That was directed at me, correct? if so, damn, I feel really double extra special!

Er... anyway. My post/s seem/s to be getting misconstrued. I never said that being gay is an illness, or mental illness or anything of the sort. Mental illness tends to encompass one main thing; not having the ability to 'function' (but then, I'd say many people fit that category). I realise it can't be 'cured' by anything available, or in any previous years and most of the people who claim to be cured are usually just repressed to the point of literal numbness.

Of course, sexuality is a complicated thing. While I personally don't think it's exactly genetic or that you're born with it, I don't think it's a choice. I don't think I was born this way, nor did I make any sort of choice. For some, their sexuality can fluctuate and it isn't always a certain thing. Not in the way that they're gay one day, straight the next, but just that perhaps, they've always been what they would define as straight, but end up falling for someone of the same sex. It may not mean they're gay, perhaps bisexual.

The sexuality thing for me I think, is just an extension of other things I dislike about myself. I'm sometimes the opposite of everything I am. I'm just a big annoying complicated homophobic, non-homophobic lesbian chocolate addict!

There's also the fact that I'm sort of 'rebelling' against my father, because well, I want to be me, not him.

[imjustme]

Eu Tus Ojos, I am new here but i respect the courage it took to write something that alot of people do not understand. I agree that the "perfect family" is really just a fantasy, and you know that. But I think that it's okay to hope for that, just don't get lost in that dream and understand that it probably won't happen. I feel bad by a couple of the responses to your post. Maybe i'm reading what you wrote in a different way than intended, but i think it takes alot of guts to say what you said. I don't necessarily understand your point of view but it's how you feel and i think that you should be supported. It was sad to read, i don't like to read that people wish they were someone other than who they really are. I hope things work out the way they are supposed to. We all know how we can plan something and then life laughs at us and decides to do something else. you can always, as well as anyone, PM me. i'm not a psychologist or anything and can not give any true advice, but i am a great listener and wish to support anyone if they don't have someone else to go to.


As for myself when i was about 13 i had arrived home after school and taken a shower as i always did, then i got dressed and was brushing my hair when i dropped my hairbrush and just stared at my reflection. after about a few minutes i said,"oh my god, I'm gay." I did not come out to anyone until i was 18 and moved out to college. then i came out to my best friend, she didn't talk to me for about a week, but now we are closer than ever. I came out to my grandmother next, she was amazing about it. apparrently she and the rest of my family already knew. the only trouble that i had was with my mother, she was clueless. she had a rough time with it and still does (it's been 3 years). she is better tho. i have been with my girlfriend for over two years and my mother realy likes her, but every time i talk to my mother i am asked to keep my options open. but if that gives her some comfort that she can accept my being with another woman just as long as i tell her that i will '' keep my options open" to being with a man. i'll take it for now. if in another 5 years she is still aslking me, we'll have a talk but until then i will definitely not complain with what i have been given.

i hope everyone is well.

andi

[Kieli]

Eu Tus Ojos, I am new here but i respect the courage it took to write something that alot of people do not understand. I agree that the "perfect family" is really just a fantasy, and you know that. But I think that it's okay to hope for that, just don't get lost in that dream and understand that it probably won't happen. I feel bad by a couple of the responses to your post. Maybe i'm reading what you wrote in a different way than intended, but i think it takes alot of guts to say what you said. I don't necessarily understand your point of view but it's how you feel and i think that you should be supported.

I personally don't think self-loathing is something that should be supported but that's MHO. And I don't think that thinking that being gay is a disease to be cured is something that should be supported either. No one ever stated that she is not entitled to her opinion. I personally don't agree with it and feel sad that her coming out story is more like a "I'd rather stay in the closet because I hate being gay" story. Who would feel comfortable about coming out after reading that? If you didn't have any confidence in yourself before reading her post, you sure as hell won't have any after reading it. Supportive? *shrug* I guess you could support her decision. But a good bit of the logic is flawed; to hate who you are because of some unattainable ideal that never really existed except in pulp fiction and movies is sad. It's apparent that she has a healthy enough ego to take or leave what has been said here. She doesn't seem worried, so I think you needn't worry about her.

[imjustme]

i'm not saying to support the decision of self-loathing as in saying that it's okay to hate yourself, but be supported in that if she needs help then don't attack is all. and this board isn't only to make everything hopeful for other ppl, in the first post from xita she just said to post issues,

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Post here if you have any issues around coming out to friends, family or even yourself. Also share any good resources you may have.

not just hopeful coming out stories. coming out is not always hopeful and easy, and if someone has issues with themself and needs to turn to someone they should be able to. maybe i misread the first post, but it seemed pretty clear. i was under the assumption that this was a supportive place and if someone had some thoughts then the ppl on this board would be there for them when no one else will, or even if other ppl will and they just need to vent to complete strangers.

[Kieli]

i'm not saying to support the decision of self-loathing as in saying that it's okay to hate yourself, but be supported in that if she needs help then don't attack is all. and this board isn't only to make everything hopeful for other ppl, in the first post from xita she just said to post issues,

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Post here if you have any issues around coming out to friends, family or even yourself. Also share any good resources you may have.

not just hopeful coming out stories. coming out is not always hopeful and easy, and if someone has issues with themself and needs to turn to someone they should be able to. maybe i misread the first post, but it seemed pretty clear. i was under the assumption that this was a supportive place and if someone had some thoughts then the ppl on this board would be there for them when no one else will, or even if other ppl will and they just need to vent to complete strangers.

That was not venting. Trust me, you've not seen me vent. I merely expressed my personal disapproval. She and you can take and do with that what you wish. I never said that this can't be a supportive place. However, it didn't seem to me that she was all that concerned about it. Just that she didn't want to be gay and felt it was some sort of illness. Now if she asked for advice and said "HELP!", I could see it. Meh, never mind. The point is lost.

[Eu Tus Ojos]

Oh goodness, I see I've started something here. My apologies for that. Really not my intention. I posted because well, I'll be honest, I was in a bad mood and had PMT's. Perhaps I should've posted in my LJ.

I never once said the word disease, though. Nor illness, well, except to clarify that's not what I meant in my original post:

Er... anyway. My post/s seem/s to be getting misconstrued. I never said that being gay is an illness, or mental illness or anything of the sort. Mental illness tends to encompass one main thing; not having the ability to 'function' (but then, I'd say many people fit that category). I realise it can't be 'cured' by anything available, or in any previous years and most of the people who claim to be cured are usually just repressed to the point of literal numbness.

I'm not advocating gay cures or self-loathing here, really, I think those things are awful for people, in particular, self loathing. Although, not believing you were 'born gay' isn't a form of self loathing, it's simply a belief. I feel that as long as the person is happy within themselves, they should be able to feel however they like about their own sexuality. Believing you are evil, dirty and nasty is not the same as believing you weren't born with a certain sexuality. One stems from self hatred and the other, sometimes can, but certainly not always.

Now, that's not exactly what I wrote in my original post. But I still didn't say the word disease or illness, I realise it may have been implied, but it's not what I was aiming for. I was merely venting to be honest, I wasn't in the best of moods and maybe shouldn't have posted here at all.

Maybe someone should post a debate thread.

[Alicepire]

OK. I have a few questions cos this is all rather confusing. being the insular and selfish person I am though, they're questions about me.
OK. I have always known that I wasn't straight. I think I was 7 when I first went to school and proudly proclaimed that when I grew up I wanted to be a lesbian.. after being beaten up a few times though I decided that that probably wasn't the best idea. So since then I've identified myself as bi, although deep down I think everyone knows I'm gay. But these are the problems I have with the whole being gay senario:
1. I don't get lesbain sex. Although that could just be cos I haven't tried it yet.. like kissing.. I have yet to see the attraction of that too. But the thing that confuses me most is that I get hetro sex. Part A slots into Part B type thing.. makes sense.. doesn't seem particulaly appealing, but it makes sense. Also oral sex creeps me the hell out.. But that could just be the germ freak in me and cos I haven't tried it yet... because I don't get the sex thing (as in understand.. not as in get.. although that's true too.. go team accidental double entendre) does this mean that I'm not gay, or just confused as hell?
2. I have yet to have a crush on a real boy (ie non celebrity) and 95% of my celebrity crushes and 100% of my real crushes are on girls. Does this support the 'I'm gay' senario or does it just mean that I live in a particularly unnattractive town or that I'm overly picky.
3. Is this all the sort of thing that is likely to be explained by going on a date? And does my not going on a date or kissing anyone despite the fact that I'm 18 mean:
a) I'm far too picky for my own good
b) I'm far too unnattractive for my own good
c) I should start going outside
d) I need to sort out the whole 'straight/gay' thing before my subconsious will allow me to date
e) I'm a freak.

Also, should I be worried that everyone seems to know that I'm gay despite me only telling a couple of friends that I'm bi. Everyone seems to have guessed. My dykey poster girl aunt is trying to get me to go to rallies and meetings and start eating organic vegies, my other aunt is trying to get me to join a gay and lesbian drama group (which is odd seeing as I don't act), my dad keeps wanting to discuss Amy Ackers boobs with me (which is way too disturbing) and my mother is trying to get me to wear dresses and make up in the hopes that I'll attact a nice boy.


But yeah.. anyway.. can someone explain what any of this means? I don't get it. And I think it would be nice to have the straight/bi/gay thing sorted out so my head doesn't explode. seems like the sort of thing I should know and I know none of you can solve the puzzle for me.. but maybe someone else had similar stuff and can say what happened with them.. you know.. make me feel slightly less of a freak,, Anyway hopefully some of that make sense and stuff..

[Eu Tus Ojos]

Alicepire - I, more or less, can relate to how you feel.

It does seem you're quite confused about it all. Though, you may not need or wish to place a label on yourself. You probably just need time to figure it all out - but I can understand the frustration of wanting to know aobut whether you like the idea of lesbian or hetero sex, or sex at all even. If you want to have sex at all, I'd wait till you find someone you trust, I think it would feel better, on the emotional level. I mean, when you're a virgin, sex can be enticing but terrifying at the same time. It's something new and unexplored, uncharted territory if you will.

It's not too awful to be picky with partners, but having all of your crushes revolve around girls does lead toward the lesbian thing. But as I said before - maybe you don't care about labeling yourself at all? I don't know, I can't speak for you.

Your mother sounds a little like the clichéd mother who proclaims "I want my grandkids, NOW damnit!" I think this may be linked to the whole evolutionary thing, wanting to carry on the species and family bloodline and whatnot. Maybe it's just the way you were concieved, wishing to have nice "normal" grandkids. Who knows what goes on inside peoples odd little minds though?

The fact that your aunt happens to be a rather stereotypical lesbian may be a factor - i.e. you don't wish to be like your family members at all, or maybe just don't want people constantly assuming your sexuality? Or not wanting them to think you're a lesbian because of your aunt?

Really though, it seems that you're just young and confused and want to assert your own independence and develop an identity that has nothing to do with anyone else. Admittedly, a lot of the things you brought up in your post ring true for me - so yay! We're just a pair of two fucked up peas in a pod.

[maudmac]

lol, the Kitten: home of fucked up peas

[snip]

I was merely venting to be honest, I wasn't in the best of moods and maybe shouldn't have posted here at all.

Oh, no, I think it's good that you posted here. That is what this thread and this board are for. You are welcome to post here with coming out issues, as are all Kittens. This thread isn't only for success stories - it's for the struggles that many, maybe most, of us have had in coming out. You are certainly not the first person, or the first Kitten, to feel some discomfort about the idea of possibly being gay or bi, for whatever reasons. It's good that you posted - not only good for you (I hope), but also good for other Kittens who may be feeling the same way you are. This board and this thread specifically are here for you all. Not everyone will understand where you're coming from, and that's okay. They aren't you. Don't worry about them.

Even for people who, unlike yourself, are feeling some self-loathing over the prospect of being gay, that's understandable, too. No, of course, no one here is going to cheer for the concept that gay = bad/dirty/perverted/evil/etc., but I think a lot of us can relate to those feelings. It wouldn't be any wonder, considering how very homophobic many societies are, and the fact that homophobia still can be found in even the most gay-friendly of societies. It can be a long, difficult, unpleasant, and turbulent journey to get from "gay is evil" or "gay is disgusting" if that's what you've been taught all your life to a place where you accept yourself as you are and have a more healthy attitude about it. This thread and this board are here for those people, too.

My personal opinion about the causes of any sexual orientation is that it's so poorly understood, there's almost no point in talking about it. The consensus these days is that sexual orientation is the result of an interaction between genes and environment. Possibly hormone levels in the intrauterine environment have an effect. No one knows for sure. And sexuality does appear to be somewhat fluid, especially for women. I think sexuality is entirely too complex to be easily explained. Which doesn't stop researchers from researching the crap out of it, and that's fine, except that I wish people wouldn't use research findings to base their acceptance of self or others on. Ideally, it wouldn't matter whether we're born this way or choose it. We should be accepted, period.


Alicepire, lol, yeah, all that does sound confusing. I think a lot of people have similar issues with sex...until they have it, and sometimes then even after they have it. Dating, kissing, sex...it can all seem so weird when you have little or no experience with it. It's just outside your comfort zone, and I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with that. I don't think you are a freak because you're 18 and haven't done these things yet. There is something to be said for waiting for the emotional maturity and the right partner before you get involved in things that can be really intense experiences. On the other hand, doing them is how you learn about them and, hopefully, grow to be more comfortable with them. It's your life and you're really the only person who can set your pace.

About your mom, I do think it's fairly common for parents to have strange reactions to their own children coming out. Perhaps your mother worries for you and what your life will be like, because she knows how homophobic the world can be and she wishes you would never have to face it. Maybe she does have some issues with it herself, but has never had to confront her own issues because it never felt personal to her before now. Who knows? Maybe Eu Tus Ojos is right and she just wants those grandbabies in a hurry. Whatever it is, I think what's most important is that you accept yourself. You're the one who lives in your skin.

[Alicepire]

Thanks for the advice guys.
Eu Tus Ojos I kinda get what you mean about the label thing. I don't really want to be labelled, but at the same time I do so I can work out where I fit and what to do cos at the moment I'm sorta stuck in limbo world.
It's unlikely that anyone would think I was gay cos of my aunt, if they were gonna think that anyone was influsencing me, it would be my cousin. The reason why I don't wanna be like my aunt is because she's the sort of stereotype I've aslways imagined lesbianism to be.. move to the country with your equally overweight partner, grow organic vegies, attend meetings to complain about the way the world treats everyone, give contant lectures about gay people against the world, people in wheelchairs against the world, black people against the world, you against the world and petition and picket and protest against anything and everything ever while wearing clothes which seemed outdated and overly colourful in the early ninties. I know that isn't the lesbian life.. but that's the picture of it that's always been in my mind and I'm just far too apathetic for that.. hence the preferring the gay label.. and I don't know why I explained that.. but I did.. huzzah..

I'm certainly planning to wait til I meet the right person.. but I would much rather meet them now and know everything without having to put any effort in at all and just bring the confusion to an abrupt end. Which I know is impossible. But it's all very frustrating that you have to wait to find these things out.

I kinda get mum wanting me to be 'normal' after my rather more interesting conception. But she was the one who always told me to be myself and screw the idea of normality. Seems kinda unfair that she's changing her mind now. Again I know there's nothing I can do and I just have to be understanding and resist the eurge to beat her around the head with blunt objects. But I just wish it would be fixed. around 33% of my time is spent in her presence and I would like it to stop being awkward.. although having her take me to shops and spend money on me is nice... I just wish her motovations were different.

Huzzah for the pod of fucked up peas. Perhaps we can hold some sort of tuppaware party to celebrate?


Maudmac, I sorta get what you mean about mum wanting me to avoid the evils of the homophobic world. yet still she insisted on sending me to two fundementalist christian schools. we aren't even religious. I managed to escape (well.. they managed to expell me..) but still.. she doesn't seem to be helping with the avoiding of narrow minded societies.


I have this idea. around 400 years in the future, scientists will have worked out how to make it so that every child born will be given a card based on some magical discovery. This card will acurately show the childs sexuality and give the name and address of their true love. It will be decided on a projection of the childs future and technically the child will be choosing it itself. no one is controlling this. but it will make it far less confusing and take alot of the guess work and pain out of growing up and romance. there will also be other information. but I haven't worked out what that is yet.

[Eu Tus Ojos]

Yes, very much so. Fucked up peas are delicious!

You know, the odd thing is, I don't think along the lines of "gay = evil" at all. I don't know what you could call the idea of me not 'liking' it. If that is even how I feel.

I think I've miscontrued and misunderstood myself. That sounds bizarre, I know. But I wonder if me not wanting to be lesbian at all, isn't connected to actual homophobia, instead, it's just me sick of being 'different'. I was never really a 'cool kid' and have always hated being a little peculiar (not in a weird or creepy way, of course ) and maybe the gay thing is just the icing on the cake of my differentness and weirdness.

There's also the fact that my family has gay people - and I don't want to be like my family whatsoever.

Of course, all this implies I have any idea about my future or who or what I want to be - which I don't.

And now something amusing for you all - Run! It's Teh Gay Agenda!

[Alicepire]

I almost get the not wanting to be different thing. I like being different, I would be a bit screwed if I didn't. But I get that you had this image of who you were going to be and then it didn't work out. When I was little and listening to my parents tell me stories of our devastated they were when they found out they were infertile (that's right. both of them) I decided not to make any image of what my family would look like cos I knew if I turned out to be gay, infertile, or a pot plant I would be really pissed off. Which I think helped me alot.
And the not wanting to be like your family thing is also understandable. families suck. But I'm gonna assume that most of your family is straight, so either way you're fucked. just be you and don't think about what the other people arond you are and what other people think. and holey fuck I should take that advice too... But of course being human means that we do care how other people see us. damn social animals...

also: cool kids suck. throw rocks at them. I was never a cool kid or in the popular group. apart from in grade 6 (where there were only 5 girls in my class so we were all 'friends' by defult). at my 4th school again I was uber unpopular, but this time I found myself in the 'assorted freaks and geeks' group, which was far more interesting than the cool kids. we weren't as self consious and no one was watching us so we could do what we liked. much better than being in the cool kid group. So yes. fuck fitting in. it looks sucky. and there was a point to that rant.. hopefully you can pick it up, cos I sure as hell can't..

[Eu Tus Ojos]

Well, families are most definitely weird - half the time you wonder what the hell is wrong with them. But you love them anyway.
Yes, the whole thing about humans being 'social creatures' who can easily care about how they appear to others gets rather pesky. Sometimes I wish I could ignore everyone elses opinion and get on with my own life. Of course, there's some people whose opinion I really don't care about, but nevermind.
I mean - I know my family would be well, fine. No issue would be made of it at all. I don't know why I'm even so worried.

Well, at my school I wanted to 'fit it' because well, the people there were kinda psychotic, backstabbing bitches who could destroy your social standing with one rumour spread between them. It actually, wasn't because I liked them at all. And oddly, I'm now fairly bitter because of them, but that's an entirely different issue and one which I won't be delving into.

Another amusing linky for you people.

[Alicepire]

Well, at my school I wanted to 'fit it' because well, the people there were kinda psychotic, backstabbing bitches who could destroy your social standing with one rumour spread between them.

Ahh. So I take it you had teenagers at your school too?

[Eu Tus Ojos]

Well, at my school I wanted to 'fit it' because well, the people there were kinda psychotic, backstabbing bitches who could destroy your social standing with one rumour spread between them.

Ahh. So I take it you had teenagers at your school too?

Unfortunately, yes.

Really though, these aren't what you'd think as the normal school social standing; the girls aren't all blonde rich, prissy twits. They're more like... Chavs. (I'm not sure what the word for Chavs is in Australia though. )

[Alicepire]

*looks stumped* Chavs? are they like bogans? relgious nuts? skanks? bitchfaces?

[Eu Tus Ojos]

I think you lot know them as 'Bogans'.

Also, it seems were spamming this thread. Maybe we should continue the convo elsewhere?

[MagicPancakes]

Yaaay, coming out stories.

I knew I was gay...probably forever, just didn't realize it...But I didn't come out to my parents until I was 17. My sister knew by the time I was 15, I never told her but she just knew somehow...I STILL don't know how she knew. I guess I was the only person I was kidding. Anyway, my dad took me to Guitar Center to buy me a new bass, he wanted me to play the back beats to some songs he wrote so he helped me pay for a new bass guitar. On the way we picked my mother up from her job at Giant. I had it planned, I knew this was the best possible moment to tell them since we were all in a car together (they couldn't walk away from me, or strangle me from their position in the front seat...) and I promised myself the day before that I would actually do it that time. So I kept my promise...

So after my dad haggled the hell out of the poor guy at Guitar Center, we got in the car, happy family, woo woo and all that good stuff, we were about 10 minutes from home when I finally just blurted out "can I tell you guys something? There's something I need to tell you." And they were all unsuspecting, probably figuring I was finally going to tell them I had a boyfriend or something (I had never in my life brought home a boyfriend, and my older sister was your typical boy-crazy girl from the time she was old enough to like boys, and had paraded many different boyfriends home to my parents by the time SHE was 17, so there MUST have been something wrong with me..hahaha) So I just blurted out "I'm gay."

My mom started crying, asking me if I was sure and how I knew and stuff like that, and my dad just looked at me in the rearview mirror and sort of smiled and nodded. I asked them if they knew and my mom said she had no clue but my dad said he kind of had an idea I was a lesbian. Then my mom gave me a mini-speach about how she's scared for me and she wishes I wasn't gay and that I'll be targeted for who I am and I just said, "That's who I am and I'm tired of hiding."

So that's my abbreviated coming-out story, since my boss is hovering somewhere nearby and I'm supposed to be working on something so totally NOT involving typing of any kind...

I'm not proofreading it so I apologize for anything that doesn't make sense.

[jade]

I know i'm bi. Although the problem is that i've never been with a girl. I have a boyfriend that i'm only content with but i'm staying with him because it makes my mom and aunt happy. I am like in love with my best friend but she has commitment issues. She like flirts around with me and stuff but we have never really come out and said "hey i like you!". I just want to have an experience with a girl but there isn't really many options where i live. I cant come out to my mom and her family. I can so talk to my dad but I havent the balls to it. My brother would just laugh at me like an asshole and call me a fag.

[OneTimeAtMathCamp]

I know I'm bi. And I'll admit it. To an extent. My friends know. But, I can't tell my family, I'm just not ready, y'know? Last year, I started hanging around with my a guy named Warren, and after a while he became my best friend. And he told me he was bi. I was totally new to this, but I always thought I was a little gay...But scared to admit it. Plus, all my old friends weren't really accepting of it. After a while I realized I was bi. My "Old friends" stopped hanging around with me because of it, and I started hanging around with Warren and his group more. I fit more there because there are so many in my group that are just like me now, or know what I'm going through. But still, I can't tell my family, my mother on many occasions has asked if I was gay. Every single time I denied it. I feel like it's wrong to be lying to them, but I'm just not ready. I'm 15 and my mom knows that Warren is bi, well, he just realized he's totally gay now, but she doesn't believe in "bisexuality". At one point, she had said that she'd prefer if I were straight. Before this, I was thinking of telling her, because my entire family thinks I'm a lesbian anyway, but when she said that I never ever wanted to tell her. My Dad would take it fine, I think he'd prefer if I was gay anyway, because well, that way I "can't get pregenant". Heh... But I just had to put that out there. Thanks for listening =D

[Darla]

Wow, now there's something you don't see every day. Someone writing in a coming out thread about wanting to be cured of the disease of being gay. I'm trying to put a severe damper on my sarcasm and be open-minded but it's quite difficult. I wonder, do you know if there is a definition for the "perfect childhood"? Because I guarantee you being straight does not guarantee your children that. Not...at...all. In country where the divorce rate is one of the highest and single parent homes are becoming more prevalent, I'd have to say, your logic is severely flawed. Maybe you already know this. Maybe you simply want someone to say that it's ok if you prefer to be straight. That's fine if you want to be straight; it's your choice. I do, however, take issue with gay = diseased or less than normal (whatever the heck that is....normalcy has never been really all that cut and dried and tends to waver quite a bit).

In essence, you don't want to come out. You want to be different from the rest of the queers in your family; stand out instead of "blend in" (and what queer wouldn't want that family...to not be ostracized or thrown out into the street because they're considered the abnormal one in the bunch). Your post doesn't give anyone wanting to come out any hope whatsoever. It merely reinforces what the rest of society would prefer we do. Get cured, get over it, have kids and be like the rest of the world.

I hope you find whatever makes you happy because it's clear that you're currently NOT happy. You could talk to Jerry Falwell and Focus on the Family. I hear they've had LOTS of success curing gays

I can somewhat relate to her or at least I think I can. I know what it was like to grow up in a time and place where same-sex attraction and love was frowned upon and ridiculed. I can understand a desire to fit in and not want to have to deal with something like that. I am bi myself so what she longs for came more naturally for me. I understand struggling with the feelings and social reaction to them. But this is a very different era than when I grew up AND her family seems like they would be okay with it. So I admit I don't entirely get the negativity about it. She seems to find the idea of being lesbian or even bi revolting in and of itself.

I don't get upset at her but more at the fact that so-called "social norms" (more social fantasy norms) cause people to feel like this.