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Re: Lost

Postby Gatito Grande » Thu May 31, 2007 11:38 pm

why are there polar bears on a tropical island?


That one I don't think is a mystery, Hemiola: they belonged to The Others (don't ask me if Dharma Initiative or not!) but apparently got out of their cages (the ones Sawyer and Kate were locked. The bears were smarter than Sawyer ;-) and remember, Kate got out of the cage, too)

I love the description of Juliet I read somewhere (I think TV Guide? They did a *yummy* spread on EM a few weeks ago): "icy and warm at the same time". Elizabeth Mitchell TOTALLY deserves an Emmy nomination!!! :clap

GG With the exception of lame-ass Charlie and Jack stuff, the latter part of the season has ROCKED! Can't wait for . . . I thought it was January? :paranoid Out



And despite the 99% filled homo part of me, I still find Naveen Andrews rather sexy...go figure


Right there w/ ya, umgaynow: "Only Straight for Sayid" :lol
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:58 am

Well, I must say that I certainly found the "VH1 Pop-Up" version of the last episode very helpful after such a long interval. :)

Can't wait to see what they come up with tonight.
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Re: Lost

Postby umgaynow » Fri May 02, 2008 10:03 pm

Am I the only one who's disappointed in this season...all this future stuff sucks if you ask me...I hate when they take a great show and screw it up...hmmmmmm, what could it be that this reminds me of? ;-)
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Sat May 03, 2008 8:06 am

I'm pretty much with you on this, umgaynow. The constant "time-shifting" and changing of characters' names is very confusing, and the series is getting almost impossible to follow.

The phrase that comes to mind is "treading water": they seem to be just trying to fill up sufficient airtime so that they will have a good run in syndication. :happy
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Re: Lost

Postby Gatito Grande » Sun May 11, 2008 9:59 pm

Have to say, I've been loving this season. If I ever find it hard to follow (as when the Sun gives birth, "while" Jin is shopping for a stuffed animal toy), then that's just part of the "Oh, NOW I get it!" fun! :smug

GG The ending of last week's end, w/ Claire in "The Cabin", along w/ her (and Jack's) dad? Shocking, and BEYOND creepy! :shock Out
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Re: Lost

Postby maudmac » Mon May 12, 2008 12:53 am

Agreeance. Every time something happens in the cabin, I have to watch it through my fingers with my hands over my face because I am scared silly of that cabin. I am not sure if Claire being there means she's dead or not, but I assume if Kate has Aaron, Claire must be dead by the time the O6 leave the island. Where is Jacob? (Still don't know who/what Jacob even is.)

I'm liking this season with the flashforwards added to the mix. That last ep in particular, with Alpert trying to recruit young Locke and Abaddon pushing around Locke's wheelchair and that stuff with Christian and the cabin, that was all stellar. Infinitely better than Jack's appendix surgery bullshit.

HOW is Locke going to MOVE the island?!? Does it move in space or time or both?
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Re: Lost

Postby Culzean » Tue May 13, 2008 8:11 am

I love being surprised, and Lost is surprising me again. I mean, moving the island...I did NOT see that coming!

I'm guessing Claire is dead, but I'm not entirely sure. Claire doesn't know her father died so that does add other possibilities.

I still want to know what the deal is with Claire's baby. The one a psychic in season one told her should only be raised by her and no one else.

I think the only weak episode this season was the Jack episode last week. I never did like him, and I like him a lot less when he's whining. I can't stand to see Kate reduced to a whiner when she's around him, either. I do wonder if Jack got sick for the same reason Ben got sick. It's time for a changing of the guard. I'm guessing Sawyer will step up as the Alpha once Jack departs on the chopper.

So we have one episode this Thursday, then a week off, then a two hour season finale, and then nothing for months. I guess it's all just part of the agony and the ecstasy of loving Lost.
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:59 am

Well, it's baaaaack. ;-)

I must say, however, that between all the new characters, the quick changes of locale and, above all, the constant temporal displacements, it's getting awfully difficult to follow.

Am I the only one who feels this way??
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Re: Lost

Postby amazon » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:12 am

I gotta say that I think it's easier to follow now than before. Now we only have to concentrate on two places, and not all of the different flashbacks and flashforwards centered on one character per episode.
Of course, it's time-travel now, but at least they are together and in only two places (on the island and on the mainland)
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Re: Lost

Postby maudmac » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:36 pm

I'm enjoying it, but it's giving me nosebleeds trying to keep up with who's when and trying to remember what's happened before.
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Re: Lost

Postby taraslove » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:11 am

maudmac wrote:I'm enjoying it, but it's giving me nosebleeds trying to keep up with who's when and trying to remember what's happened before.


You need a constant.
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Re: Lost

Postby effrena » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:03 pm

You need a constant.
:rofl

Spoiler:
i though benjamin is alexandres father? not some weird french guy?
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Re: Lost

Postby taraslove » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:03 pm

Spoiler:
Ben kidnapped Alex waaaaaaaay back when. She's not his blood daughter.
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:27 pm

I have to agree with Maudmac about the nosebleeds.

What does the death of Daniel mean now? Does this mean he no longer exists in the future world?? What about this "doomsday" scenario for the island itself? What does this mean for all the other characters???

I tell you, I'm starting to agree with some of the critics of the earlier episodes: it seems the writers/producers don't really have a plan--they're just making it up as they go along (OR, they are so distracted by some of their other projects, that they are paying less attention to "Lost" ;-) ).

Edited to add: At least it's always nice to see Fionnula Flanagan--I liked her so much in "The Others". :)
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Re: Lost

Postby jasmydae » Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:01 pm

Hemiola wrote:What does the death of Daniel mean now? Does this mean he no longer exists in the future world?? What about this "doomsday" scenario for the island itself? What does this mean for all the other characters???


Daniel's death in the 1970s does not affect Daniel's future actions. He died in 1970 just like he always died in 1970. There is only one timeline in LOST; nothing that happens changes anything on the timeline. At least, from what they've said / shown us.

Another way to look at it is like this: time is not a loop, but a straight line. Time travel allows a person's body to exit the time stream at point A and reenter the time stream at point B. However, the points A and B are predetermined:

past future

1: Oceanic 815 crashes
2: Freighter arrives at the island
3: Survivors leave the island
A: Daniel leaves the timestream in the 2000s.
B: Daniel enters the timestream in the 1970s.
4: Daniel is shot and killed by Eloise.
5: (not yet seen, but assumed) Eloise gives birth to Daniel.

The important thing to realize is that at the very beginning of LOST, when the plane crashes in the pilot episode, everything we're seeing *now*, with the Dharma Initiative in the 70s, already happened exactly like it's playing out now.

The time traveling survivors/freighter people who are in the 1970s right now are not altering time; they're doing exactly the same things that had already been done, because there's only one time stream.

I expect that the survivors grand scheme to attempt to stop the "accident" at the swan station is exactly what causes it in the first place, and that they are unknowingly going through the motions that have already been laid out.

Hope this post is coherent. ^_^
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Re: Lost

Postby Nana » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:27 pm

Kittens!! I needed to bring this post to life again.

The last seasson is at the episode 11. Any fans of the serie here? If someone is watching it. What do you think of the last seasson.
I like it so far, but it has me confused I wont say why because may be its spoiler ;).
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Re: Lost

Postby SJ » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:52 am

Yeah the parallel world storyline was confusing at first.
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:48 pm

So it seems to me that the writers are trying to imply that the "smoke monster" using Locke's body is...um...The Devil. Anybody else getting this vibe? If true, does that make Charles Widmore some kind of Angel for trying to stop him and/or kill him?? And while we're on the subject, is "Jacob" some sort of divine agent???

As far as the "flash sideways" storyline is concerned, it seems that they're trying to imply that all of the Flight 815 characters would have met anyway, even if the plane hadn't crashed. Perhaps it's The Flying Fickle Finger Of Fate" as Rowan & Martin used to say. :)
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Re: Lost

Postby Owl » Mon May 24, 2010 7:07 am

Soooo, feelings Kittens?

A quick scan of the internets has informed of the fact that many people are a bit angry over the very end and the general lack of explainyness, and everyone who hates Lost is just angry. For me though, considering my best friend and I more or less called (and proceeded to complain about) that ending back in 2006, I was able to just enjoy the whole event as pure EPICNESS.

I gave up being the 'this all must make the kind of sense that doesn't involve some kind of obvious mass-deadness, afterlife ending' fan along time ago and just became content with enjoying the pretty pictures and foreboding music. Surprisingly it all started making more sense after that (over-thinking gets you nowhere with this show) and allowed me to re-appropriate my already minimal brainpower for other more noble pursuits, like life and stuff.

Anyway. I'm currently not as utterly lost as I thought I would be and very happy I managed to evade spoilers. Seriously though, major lack of polar bears.

Also, did anyone else feel that light cave = Goonies in any way?
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Mon May 24, 2010 8:37 am

I suppose it's not really surprising that one of the oldest speculative explanations (the Island must be some kind of Purgatory), which dated back to at least the 2nd Season, turned out to be the right one.

I have to agree that even with this major hurdle overcome, an awful lot still remains completely unexplained. For instance, as Owl mentioned, what about the polar bears--were they brought in by the Dharma Initiative or conjured up by the powers of the contractor's magical little boy? And whatever happened to those two anyhoo??

And, of course, what was a "scientific" expedition doing in Purgatory? Were the Others dead or alive? If one of the twin boys was "Jacob", was the other then supposed to be "Esau" (although we never heard his name, and the Biblical Esau wasn't evil)? And who was their mother anyway? Gaea, or some other manifestation of the Earth Goddess?? What the heck was Desmond supposed to be? And what about his supposed mother???

Aw Crikey, I could go on and on. Perhaps Owl is right: best not overthink it (obiviously, the writers didn't :lol ), so why not just sit back "und vatchen der Blinkenlightsen". :D

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Re: Lost

Postby Owl » Tue May 25, 2010 6:58 am

Hmmm. You raise some interesting points Hemiola, and I'm gonna address them from a 'this is what I took from the non-explainy explanation and I'm probably totally wrong' POV, 'cause I ended up with a totally different view of things. Lets compare notes :D

While the 'island as Purgatory/death' idea was what I once assumed way back when with everyone else, I soon realised that it couldn't possibly be as clear cut as it seemed, what with people on the island dying, not to mention some managing to escape. I personally never liked the 'island as Purgatory' idea as it seemed quite heavy handed, and the presence of all the Others/Dharmas/Boat People just seemed to keep allowing me to reject it. As for the 'island is death' thing, I drove myself crazy asking ridiculous questions like 'but if they're already dead and the island is where their dead selves are, then how can they die more? Do they go one to some higher level of being dead?'. So I soon revised that model of thinking and over time ended up somewhere near a conclusion that was mostly supported by these final episodes.

So here's what I got from the scene where Jack is talking to his father, which is the closest we'll ever get to anay kind of proper explanation: The island really exists, on this (well the Lost universe's version of this) plane of existence, as a place with weird electro-magnetic properties either because of, or causing, the special light. It's a place that can travel through time and space and all sorts of other mind bending things, but its a real, Earthly place nonetheless. The Dharma people really were scientists who went there to study it. The smoke monster was created by the electro-magno deal and the woman who killed Jacob and his brother's real mother was from a line of people put/originating there to stop stuff like that and also what Desmond did from happening. The Others were Jacob's people who I imagine came into his service in much the same way as we saw Richard do (okay I'll admit I'm pretty vague on this part 'cause I've completely forgotten most of the more detailed stuff of the previous seasons as I suffer from mushbrain).

In this interpretation (that I'm aware I'm rambling about btw), if the island is real, it cannot be Purgatory/death. Rather, what Christian says to Jack seems to imply that what we've been calling the flash-sidewayseseses are actually Purgatory, in a sense. If we accept that the island is real (we being me), then the experiences of these characters there, no matter how truly odd, were also real. All the time traveling and that period where a few of them briefly escaped and Not Penny's Boat and the sexy time in the big cage - all happened. The original Ocianic815 passengers all crashed on that island (due to the machinations of Jacob trying to find his new candidate) and the others they gathered along the way like Miles and Daniel all actually arrived there too, 'there' being an actual location, the events that being on the island caused being events they actually experienced in their lives. Thus, they all really knew each other, in life, and so, as Christian says, they created a place to be together in death - the lives they live in the flash sidewayeseses.

Every time we saw a flash sideways, this was essentially that character in Purgatory, or whatever you want to call the place you go when you die before you move on to the actual place where you go when you die (assuming one is accepting of the notion of the 'afterlife' at all, of course). So, they all met up in the after life, and began to remember their shared history on Earth as they came into contact with one another. Obviously, they would have all died at different times, as people do, 3 examples being 1)Shannon dying like, forever ago, 2)Jack dying as we saw and 3)one of those people on that plane at the end or left on the island, Kate or Ben for example, dying some time in an unseen future. However, as Christian says, as time doesn't really exist in the flash sideways/pre-afterlife place, they all end up there together, seemingly as though their experiences there have been simultaneous (eg Shannon who died forever ago and Sayid who died not-quite-so-forever ago and Hurley who must die in the unseen future, all together in one 'moment' that isn't really a moment as time doesn't exist). Then, once they had all found each other and truly were there all together, in that church-like building (which decided to be all multi-faith in its stain glass window decor - clumsy inclusiveness, FTW!) they could go on to the actual after life part of death, as shown by Christian throwing open those doors with light streaming out of them.

Wow, I hope that makes some kind of sense.

So. If anyone is still following/caring, they may have noticed serious flaws in this, mostly due to stuff it still doesn't explain. What the hell was up with Walt? Hurley talking to dead people? Jack's (dead) dad repeatedly showing up on the island? Zombie-Sayid? Lots of other things that I can't remember right now but smarter people probably do? All I can really offer to justify these flaws is a)I'm not entirely sure of the extent to which the electro-magno powers of the island can be used to explain stuff. This is sci-fi after all so the possibility of this is being a place that, while entirely Earthly, can bring people back/make them walk/give them powers is very present but at the same time kinda feels like a cop-out, y'know? b)stuff was just left open, without explanation, simply because they ran out of time. If we were discussing a game of skip-rope from when I was twelve, I believe this particular point would be called Interference. And finally/most likely c)I could be totally wrong, and crazy, and THAT'S why lotsa stuff still makes no sense.

I definitely feel that you're on the right track with the Biblical/generally religious elements Hemiola (it may seem like I forgot I was replying to you and instead just started expressing my feelings in a wild fashion, but alas, this is not so), especially in terms of the uses of names like Jacob/Shepherd etc, the roles of babies/children throughout the series, references to the island as a guiding force and the debates this caused about predestination and free will, the portrayal of a young man killing his brother, and the general opposition, and often lack of clear divide, between good and evil, as well as of course direct references to the major religions in the form of Mr Eko or Richard before he got to the island, for example. However, I personally found much of this to be more on the side of allegory and metaphor than of it actually producing any kind of literal reading of the series' events in terms of an identifiable religious model. Like you say, the Jacob/Esau thing doesn't really work out in terms of what actually happens in religious texts, but even as a half-comparison if we consider Jacob to be somewhat based on the Jacob we know from these texts, it creates a powerful image and a wonderful connection with human history, both in the religious sense and the more secular 'literary canon' sense.

So that's basically all I've got to say. Sorry. I might have exaggerated the level to which I've stopped over-thinking this show :D The only thing I feel to be left seriously unexplained is that damn statue. All I got was that its missing big toe is the plug we saw Desmond pull that's keeping all the happy light in its Goonies cave (really not dropping the Goonies thing anytime soon). I think it was implied that the polar bear was from a trip the island took to the arctic at some point in its well traveled life. How it managed to survive the relocation to the tropics is a bit beyond me though. Nevertheless, it should have made a guest appearance in the final, just for kicks.

One thing I really do need to think about, if I'm going to claim that the island itself is entirely Earthly, is the appearance of dead people on the island - Many appear to Hurley, Jacob's brother sees his dead mother and Jack sees his dad. Is there some kind of pattern here? Both Jack and Hurley end up as 'gate keepers' (hey, there's another vague religious reference), and the brother ends up as Smokey, all pretty significant roles...but Jacob is also a 'gate keeper' and he doesn't get to see their mother. Seriously, these questions could go on forever.
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Re: Lost

Postby Hemiola » Wed May 26, 2010 7:49 am

Wow, Owl, as we used to say in Brooklyn, that's some great !@##$$%% reasoning! :party Please don't think of it as "rambling"--there's no reason why your explanations/reconciliations shouldn't be as valid as anyone else's. :D

Anyway, I still hope that some of the other Kittens caught the finale and will have some interesting things to say about it. :)
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Re: Lost

Postby Owl » Thu May 27, 2010 5:57 am

If anyone's interested, CollegeHumor have made a pretty sweet video about all that was left unanswered after the final. It kinda ruined my new found sense of peace with this show - my grasp on it all is not so graspy anymore.
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