The Lord of the Rings

[sam7777]

GG: I'd love to see more Eowyn and Faramir. The Houses of Healing scenes are rumored to be in the extended cut.

www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html



I used to have alot of fun with slash/subtext but for me now it seems too much like the crumbs we have to invent to have gay characters. I've stopped paying attention unless the characters are ID'd as gay. These days I'd rather have the impossible: non-tragic gay characters.



So far, it looks like we will have to wait until November for the extended cut. Since they are done with the films, I was hoping we could get it sooner. It's not on the list for Jan-Mar at Flipside Movie Emporium:

www.flipsidemovies.com/dv...dates.html

[Gatito Grande]

re: slash vs. gay characters: sam777, I agree w/ you, but when it's *All-Slash, All-the-Time* like the story Cicca posted, it's pretty freakin' funny. (E.g. Frodo to Gandalf, at the start in the Shire: "You're an official disturber of the pants around here." )



GG OK, I suppose if you live in the Castro or the Village, it might be yawn-worthy, but elsewhere . . . Out

[darkmagicwillow]

To respond to an earlier comment, I don't think LotR was the perfect movie trilogy, but I do think it was the best one. Some of the deviations from the book, particularly the changes with Faramir and Frodo is Osgiliath in TTT and the "connection" between Arwen and the Ring in RotK, were bad, but overall most of the changes were good for movies set a year apart (replacing Glorfindel, who we never hear about again, with Arwen, in FotR, so the viewer will remember her) or essential to cutting the length down from the 48 hours or so it would've taken to film all the details of the book (and getting rid of some of the early FotR chapters, written when Tolkien was still thinking of writing a lighter book like The Hobbit instead of an epic like LotR, was an excellent change too.)

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Start w/ the map of Middle Earth: note how the world is defined by the *North* and especially the *West* (in the movie, they keep Aragorn's "Men of the West!" rallying cry at the Black Gate). I contend that this is *not* accidental, but rather reflects a Eurocentric view of the Northwestern part of the Eurasian landmass.

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Middle Earth is meant to reflect Europe and Tolkien based his mythology, history, characters, and languages on his well-known academic studies of the Scandanavian and German epics. Remember, this is the man who wrote the amazing essay about Beowulf, which made it an object of study of modern literature instead of a more or less historical curiosity. Grounding a fantasy in existing myth and history is part of what gives it depth and addes reality to a world that can't exist.



These connections and references are one of the major differences between a work of literature like LotR and simpler, lighter works like BtVS and most of what you find on the fantasy shelf these days. They're not a flaw, any more than Teresa Edgerton's focus on the Celtic myths set on an island that looks suspiciously like Wales, Neil Gaiman's focus on the Greek plays and myths in Sandman, or Barry Hughart's focus on the Chinese myths. It would not improve LotR and in fact would do great damage to replace those connections with a more, modern picture of the world. If you want an image of the world that reflects what you want to see, try the urban fantasy genre or some of the lighter, more modern knockoffs of Tolkien. There's plenty of both available for you to read without needing to rewrite LotR.

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(Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth is somewhat south of Gondor, but he's explicitly described as being "tall, w/ sea-gray eyes": i.e. Numenorean, which is in turn elf-like, n'est pas?)

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Of course, they're elf-like. Their line of kings is descended from Elros, Elrond's brother who chose to be human rather than elf as Arwen would several thousand years later. On the other hand, there are the Black Numenoreans who served Sauron, who weren't black-skinned at all. The dichotomy between light and darkness symbolically representing good and evil doesn't necessarily have any racial implications.

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"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 1/3/04 9:10 am

[Gatito Grande]

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Middle Earth is meant to reflect Europe

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But I see this as a problem. Not basing the story on Northern European mythologies: that's fine (as long as those mythologies don't themselves do that "Southern/Eastern/dark-skinned = Bad" thing . . . which I don't believe they do). But when a landmass is explicitly drawn to be partial, in a way that duplicates a Eurocentric view, then that's different. When you're talking about an "epic struggle between Good and Evil," then either that narrative is totalizing---whether or not Sauron triumphs essentially dictates the fate of that universe---or else one is left scratching their head. If "Middle Earth" is but part of its "Earth," then what's happening elsewhere? How can Sauron's victory or defeat define this particular universe?



It seems like Tolkien wants it both ways: a narrative says that "only Middle Earth exists," yet a larger view that makes the narrative "centric" to other places, and Middle Earth's "free peoples" to be not merely the only people, but the best people. It's as if Tolkien thought his readers wouldn't think the story important enough, if Middle Earth were the "whole world." [Could he have thought his work might be classified as science fiction---Planet Middle Earth---rather than fantasy? Or was sci fi (of the extraterrestrial variety) not developed enough as genre to present any confusion?]

Quote:

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The dichotomy between light and darkness symbolically representing good and evil doesn't necessarily have any racial implications.

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Maybe if we were just talking hat color, but I'm not so sanguine if we're talking skin color in the 20th century (*combined* w/ that "resembling Europe amidst a larger---and lesser---world" factor).



[Getting way far afield of LOTR, but I have this theory that the *least* malicious possible cause for the origin of racism, was that European (esp. Northern European) explorers coming into contact w/ darker-skinned peoples, unconsciously reproduced the "Light = Good, Dark = Bad" Ur view so imprinted upon them from the reality of "Dark = Night, the longer the colder = Freezing to Death = Very Bad." Equatorial peoples, in contrast, seem to have a far more nurturing view of night (and consequently darkness itself), whereas Day may equal excessive heat and thirst, and White = the bleached bones of death.]



GG Then again, it may just have been a case of "We Europeans have guns, and it seems these Africans and Indigenous Americans---who don't even have the decency to be Christians!---do not have guns. Let's just help ourselves to the goodies, shall we?" Out

[urnofosiris]

Puff, the ending of the book does not sound all that different from the movie, which I have not seen yet, hee. In fact it sounds like the movie is less of a "drag out" than the book, seeing as they left out the Scouring of the Shire. Hum anyway. I can't imagine that if they really want to make a movie out of the Hobbit that anyone will be able to stop it, but whoever has the rights to the Hobbit is one lucky bastard.

Edited by: xita  at: 1/10/04 9:34 am

[Puff]

I saw the movie just after Christmas. I have forgotten what it is actually like to go the movies and have the whole place packed. I don't think it was like that even for Harry Potter.



Anyway, the spider scared the crap out of me as I hate them. The fight scenes were awesome. The bad guy died way to easy after he was stabbed. Merry and Pippin rocked. Some of the end was too cheesy (The bedroom moment when Frodo woke up) and it should have stopped after they all bowed to the Hobbits. I haven't read the books so the rest of the ending just felt dragged out when you compare it to the rest of the movie. Overall though it was still my favorite installment of the trillogy. Shame they aren't allowed to make The Hobbit movie.

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So, the day started and I knew my name and had my pants on. So far, so good. Yay.
Amber Benson

[GiftofAmber]

ROTK.....um, WOW. My only complaints were a) it was too short, and b) Frodo left Sam behind when he left for the Undying Lands. Frodo and Sam made such a cute couple, as did Merry and Pippin.....and Eowyn rocked! I do hope the same director makes "The Hobbit" because everyone says it is such a classic, but well, Tolkien was a professor at Oxford and he writes like one--he tends to drag a lot and ignore female characters.

[sam7777]

Quote:

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as for there being no people of colour, why on earth would there need to be? .....as i said - i can't be arsed to read all the posts, but i've heard people complain of those things elsewhere, and it annoyed me, so i did my rant here. no offense.

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bla bla bla: I took the time to read your post and the other posts so I could reply. The reason I wanted to see more diversity is because there are few people like me on the screen. I think that's all folks are looking for when they question diversity. If every film had the diversity of the Matrix movies, it wouldn't even be an issue. Margaret Cho did a skit about limited dreams where she jokes that when she was growing up she wanted to be "an extra on Mash" or "Arnold's girlfriend" because otherwise people of Asian descent were invisible on the screen. "Return of the King" is a great movie in my favorite trilogy of movies but it loses points in my view because of lack of diversity in the casting. Points I give to the inferior in my view Matrix trilogy. That said I don't think that ROTK is demeaning to anyone which puts it head and shoulders above 90% of gay portrayals on the screen. I don't think that it's annoying to point that out. No offense.



"Return of the King" is kicking @ss at the Box office with 3 weeks in a row at number one:

www.comingsoon.net/news.php?id=2875

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The Return of the King Reigns a Third Straight Week



In a weekend with no major new releases, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King ruled the box office a third straight time adding an estimated $30.8 million from 3,703 theaters. The third installment in Peter Jackson's trilogy has made an astounding $292 million in just 19 days and is threatening to take over the record for fastest to the $300 million mark, set by Spider-Man in 22 days. "The Return of the King" has moved up to the 18th spot on the all-time domestic blockbuster list and is now the third-biggest film of 2003 (behind "Pirates of the Caribbean" and " Nemo" . The New Line film has now earned $677 million worldwide.

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Here's hoping Peter Jackson gets an Oscar nod for creatings the first great movie trilogy IMHO. And hoping for that extended release ASAP. I can't wait to have all 3 on my shelf.

[Cicca]

Ok, apropos of very little of the recent discussion...

(ooh, was that even a real sentence?)



I'm rereading the books. Tolkien fans may lash me with a wet noodle, but I'm finding them much easier to read (and more enjoyable) now that I've seen the movies. The whole of book one drove me crazy the first time I read it. *Cicca reading and grumbling to self* "Helloooooooo! Quit wandering around this damn forest and get a move one! And Frodo? What's with waiting months and months to actually leave? Jeepers creepers!"

I actually enjoyed all that meandering this time!



I don't often connect the book's Aragorn with Viggo's Aragorn, but there was a bit I just read where he sang and helped Bilbo with a song. And laughed! Aragorn laughed. Excellent. The book's Aragorn can seem so dour, I'm just really pleased to see these bits of lightness.



Tolkien's poetry. Again, the first time it sort of seemed like a bit much. *bending over for lashing by wet noodle* This time, not bad. I'm recognizing bits of the movie's songs in it. Pippin's excellent song from RotK is from a peppy travelling song that the 4 of them sing in Book One. I think. Parts of it are, not the whole thing. And I also may have recognized bits of their drinking songs too. heehee



Sam. I love Sam!

Bless Ian McKellan for getting Sean Astin and Elijah Wood to follow the book in that Rivendell scene. "See here, Sam takes Frodo's hand. Fans of the book will be looking for that." I'd forgotten just how sweet and subtexty that scene was. Sam takes Frodo's hand and blushes and looks away. Gosh golly, if that's not hobbity love, I don't know what is! Sweet little hobbits!



And way back in this thread, someone said that a little slash can go a long way. Same goes for me, but some of this LotR stuff is awfully fun! Someone wrote an interesting series with Aragorn and Legolas getting together way down the road after he's king. And then it turned out that Arwen and Eowyn had also hooked up. Darnit, where's THAT story?!







Ok, I'll go behave now. I promise.



And yes, I do recommend giving the books a try.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[Hemiola]

I have said to many people that one of the best aspects of these films is that they will induce fans to read (or re-read) the books .



As someone who has passed the half-century mark in life, I'm proud to call myself a "five-timer" .

[sam7777]

The latest DVD rumor for the extended edition of Return of the King is 4hrs and 15minutes. Gawd how cool would that ber. Plenty of room for the Houses of healing methinks:



Possible running time for Lord of the Rings: Return of the King Extended Edition DVD

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Update: Possible running time for Lord of the Rings: Return of the King Extended Edition DVD



[from DVDAnswers.com]



Reader Jesper Højland has kindly got in touch with us regarding the runtime for the upcoming extended cut of Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King. You may remember that a journalist spoke with Peter Jackson late last year, where the director revealed that the extended cut of Return of the King would run to a whopping four hours and fifty minutes. However, that wasn't entirely accurate. Jesper tells us that he contacted the interviewer to clarify the runtime, and it turns out that the film will instead run to a total of four hours and fifteen minutes. We've attached the interviewers response to Jesper (in Danish) along with the translation below:



"Du har ret, du er ikke den første, der reagerer på min tidsangivelse i interviewet med Peter Jackson. Han sagde rent faktisk 4 timer og 15 minutter. Det er pænt af dig, ikke at betvivle mine engelsk-kundskaber. Skal vi i stedet sige, at jeg måske trænger til et hørerør!?!"



Roughly translated, it means:



"You're right, you're not the first to react to the running time mentioned in the Peter Jackson interview. What he DID say was 4 hours and 15 minutes. It is very nice of you not to doubt my English skills. Shall we just say that I might be in need of a hearing aid?!"

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Any Danish Kittens to confirm this?

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Cicca]

So that's nearly an hour of extra footage. Oooooooooooooooh.

That makes me happy!





As for the books, I'm at the Entmoot and I love Quickbeam! heehee

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[urnofosiris]

Well there is really no need to hold back with the extended version. I mean, is there anyone who wants to buy the extended version who does not want for it to last as long as possible? The previous two extended versions reunited us with some really lovely and good scenes that I missed in the cinematic version. I just really hoppe they won't wait till november, that is way too long a wait.

Quote:

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And way back in this thread, someone said that a little slash can go a long way. Same goes for me, but some of this LotR stuff is awfully fun! Someone wrote an interesting series with Aragorn and Legolas getting together way down the road after he's king. And then it turned out that Arwen and Eowyn had also hooked up. Darnit, where's THAT story?!

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Hee, good question.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/10/04 1:52 pm

[Cicca]

Yeah, I figure any extra footage is just wonderful gravy. More is better, in this case.



I went looking for some rumours and found this strange news item. Well, interesting, not strange. *backpedaling*



News for pipesmokers - first a report from Kirby:

"Here is the website of Tom Johnson of Luna Pipes who makes long LOTR

"churchwarden" pipes as you see in the movie: CrossroadUSA

He has been making these for some time out of Ash...both stems and bowls. Briar

bowls on special order for just a bit more. Three sizes: "14 inch "Hobbit", 16 inch

"Strider" and 18 inch "Gandalf". The prices are very reasonable too. $50, $65 and

$75. The bowls are pre carbonized (less time for "breaking in") and come with a

fleece drawstring bag to keep them in.



(the link included in the story doesn't work anymore)

And obviously, my mind is far too dirty because I was thinking of some other product descriptions based on length. *ahem* All I have to say is, go Gandalf!





Eowyn and Arwen. If anyone here wants to write that story, I'll go dig up the link that mentions them.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[Gatito Grande]

18" Gandalf? No wonder he's a "disturber of the pants!"



Just what are the porn versions of LOTR? "Lord of the G-Strings?" No need to change "Two Towers"! And how 'bout "Assume the position, baby: here comes the Return of the King!"



GG "Lord of the C*ck-Ring"? Alright, alright, shutting up now! Out



Eowyn and Arwen? Nah, Arwen's too much of a light-weight. I'm more partial to Eowyn and Galadriel: now *they* would make Middle Earth move!

[Cicca]

Those are some interesting titles!!!!!!!!

hee!!



Out of all three women in Middle Earth (oops, Rosie Cotton, four) there aren't too many options. Arwen and Granny Galadriel? No!!



Ok fine, there were some other women on screen. And I'll stop now before I get grumpy at Tolkien!

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[darkmagicwillow]

Only an hour of extra footage?? But there's so much more...



I'll be looking forward to the extra Saruman scenes, especially to see if they have the scene with Wormtongue tossing out the palantir. That was fun.

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"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[Munchkin]

Now that I've seen RoTK in theatres (twice), I must admit that I did miss Saruman after all. Not only for the rather offhand way of "oh, we're just going to leave him in Isengard and get on with the rest of the story" manner, but for the basic completism that this form of the trilogy lacked without Christopher Lee's gravitas-like presence, which was felt most strongly in the end-credits illustrations of all of the major actors/characters.



Aside from that, the main disappointment for me was not seeing The Mouth of Sauron arrive at the Black Gate to taunt Aragorn and his merry band of heroes, as this role was reportedly played by Bruce Spence, who I remembered fondly as the "Gyro Captain" from The Road Warrior, and recently played the "Trainman" in the otherwise abysmal Matrix Revolutions. Nor did they even spare a minute for Denethor to show off the Palantir as the cause of his unexplained madness before lighting the fire, which also bugged me somewhat.



That said, the movie as it was totally kicked ass, so that obviously means the extended version will be even better. Plus, Eowyn was awesome. And as if I needed anymore reason to like Miranda Otto the most, her real hair-color is apparently red.

________



Dave C.

[Warduke]

As I have mentioned before, The Encyclopedia of Arda is my favorite LOTR site. One of the things they do that's a lot of fun is show all the differences between the book and the films.



Well their article on ROTK is up now. So enjoy!

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Firebird: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[sam7777]

I'm reading the ROTK art book. They have designs and pictures for the Mouth of Sauron and the Houses of healing so I am keeping my fingers cross that these will make the extended cut. ROTK contunes to reign at the box office for 4 weeks in a row (I know I have seen it 3 times):

'Lord of the Rings' Rules Yet Again After All

By LAURA M. HOLSON

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LOS ANGELES, Jan. 12 - Few things in Hollywood are as they first appear.



That was the case again this weekend when studio executives for Sony Pictures Entertainment said that the Tim Burton fantasy "Big Fish" beat out the final chapter of "The Lord of the Rings " for the No. 1 spot at the domestic box office. Howls could be heard from Beverly Hills to Malibu on Sunday morning as competitors called early estimates for "Big Fish" foul.



Now that the final numbers are in, "The Lord of The Rings: The Return of the King" continues to reign at the box office. "Big Fish" earned $13.8 million in its first weekend of wide release, according to the box-office tracker Exhibitor Relations, compared with the $14.5 million originally projected by Columbia Pictures, a unit of Sony. "The Lord of The Rings," on the other hand, brought in $14.2 million, more than its original $14.1 million tally, giving the movie a total of $312 million since opening Dec. 17.

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_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 1/13/04 5:02 pm

[Cicca]

That was interesting!

Thanks



And here's a pic of Miranda Otto with her red hair. I like the red and the blonde. She looks great







Hmm.

Ok, I took out my smileys cause they were all crazy.

*sniffle*

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

Edited by: Cicca  at: 1/17/04 12:44 am

[urnofosiris]

Hee, that is funny, the article at the bottom of that tango pic calls her a "willowy Eowyn".



Brian, thanks for the links. It's amazing and annoying how much I have forgotten. I have read the books three times at least and speed read or skipping some parts several other times added to those three.



Edited to add:

I finally saw it tonight. Wow, just wow, it was much better than I expected. I missed Saruman and Eowyn/Faramir, but I trust the extended version will right that. Eowyn was phenomenal, what a woman, let me count the ways in which I love her, and let me count the ways in which I do not love Frodo. Whiner, and the look on his face and the sounds he was making after Shelob stabbed him almost made me laugh, they lingered a little too long on him there, he looked like he was constipated. Really did not like Elrond either, but I did not care much for him in the books either, so to me he stayed true to form, like Frodo. Gandalf had some nice yoda moves in this part and Sam, I think I have a crush on Sam now, but he is better of with his Rosey. The only major annoyance, aside from the missing scenes was the way they portrayed Denethor. I did not like him in the book, but it was understandable why he had become such a seemingly cold hard man, but he was still a man. An example of what happens to a man when he has lost all hope. In the end I could sympathize with him, despite his actions. There was no need to portray him as pig. Bleh, anyway, there was so much more to like than not to. The battle scenes were awesome and chilling, the destruction of Barad-dur and Mordor was a dropping sight. There is so much more, I am definitely going to rewatch it soon. I wish we could see all the extended versions in the cinema.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/14/04 5:08 pm

[urnofosiris]

Sacrilege! I would never say that about Sam. I loved him in the books and I loved him all the more in the movie. Sean Astin was awesome. In the end when the others saw the fall of Barad-dur they should have been cheering for Sam, not Frodo, or at least both.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/17/04 12:53 am

[Cicca]

So, I need to get my head out of my ass and acknowledge the fact that there are people in the world who haven't seen the movie yet.

Dr. G hates Frodo! But... But... those big blue eyes! Cute little Elijah!

Ok, that's fine. If you'd said that about Sam I may have cried.

I Sam!



Speaking of, Sean Astin is on Ellen on monday and there were also some great photos and a mini-interview in Entertainment Weekly.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[Cicca]

Yeah, I really can't imagine anyone not liking Sam.



I just finished The Two Towers and I love that Movie-Faramir's speech (extended version) about the Easterling/Haradrim/"Bad Guy" (sorry, not sure which!) and who he was, where he came from, did he really want to be there, etc etc, that speech is Sam's thoughts in the book. Go Sam!

Then there's a bit where Sam's trying to puzzle something out and all he can think of is that he loves Frodo. AWWWWWWWWW!



They're so sweet.



And yes, Sam is a huge part of what happens with the ring. So's Frodo, and so's Gollum. But Sam's the sweetest.

Is there a hyphen in anal-retentive?

[urnofosiris]

Sam's the sweetest, the bravest and he is the one who does not fail and does not give up. I believe (highly speculative and subjective of course) his character is such that he would have tossed that ring into the fire if he had still been carrying it (and he did carry it himself, even if only briefly). Isildur carried it even more briefly yet he could not destroy it. Gollum commited murder over the ring and he had only seen it, not even touched it. Clearly the ring has a will of it's own, but it cannot corrupt everyone (at least not in a relatively short time, Bilbo in the end could give it up and he carried it for 60 years). It always bugged me how much credit Frodo got throughout the books and the movie too, and every once in while he would benevolently share it with 'his' Sam, but dammit without Sam the ring would *never* have made it to mount doom. Grrr, anyway, the movie stayed so true to Sam's character and I am really happy about that. Except for Faramir and Denethor they stayed true to all the main characters. Oh and I really liked the start of RotK, I really liked that flashback of the finding of the Ring and Deagol's murder and the subsequent deterioration of Smeagol. At some points he looks much creepier and disgusting than the Gollum we see now.

[Jennpurr]

XITA! I can't believe you just said that!



Well, I've seen ROTK twice now, so I figured I would give my two cents.



I don't really know where to start. This one, by far, was the best of the three, IMO.



I don't hate spiders, so Shelob didn't really bother me. She was just creepy. I temporarily wigged when she stuck her, um... I can't think of what it's called... when she stung Frodo. I knew he couldn't be dead, but I kinda freaked. Then Sam shows up and woo hoo! Then I freaked when Frodo thought the ring was gone. I never thought that Sam would have taken it off of him.



There's something about the part at the end, where Frodo sees Gandalf for the first time, that makes me teary. It happened both times and probably will again the next time I see it. Maybe its the way he says his name or the expression on his face... I don't know. Then when Sam walked in and they looked at each other, I lost it. I couldn't stop my tears.



Gollum. You know, a very small part of me felt sorry for him here and in TTT. He can't really help it that the ring made him the way he is, but he got what he deserved I guess. He got his precious back, although not for long, but he got her back. Hee... I think when he purrs Precious at the beginning is the greatest/cutest thing!



The battle scenes were excellent. I was very impressed, not having read the books, it was all new to me. I don't know if I would ever get through the books even if I tried, just knowing how much detail and things is in them.



Sam and Frodo were sending off vibes like crazy and someone said there's even more subtext in the books? WOW... Elijah and Sean did extrodinary jobs.



These movies are definitely a collection that I will treasure.



Did they show the clips from the special showing that they did for all three movies? That guy who was running around talking like Gollum was hillarious!



Jen

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||My Fan Fiction and More!|| ||My Yahoo Group||
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"We wants it, we needs it. Must have the Precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!" ~ Gollum, "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers"

Edited by: Jennpurr at: 1/18/04 11:10 am

[xita]

I have to say frodo got on my nerves and wished upon wishes that he would have been tossed into the fire as well

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Hard work often pays off after time but laziness always pays off now!"

[urnofosiris]

I must say I did go hmm a couple of times when I read the book and the way the relationship between Sam and Frodo was described, it was rather physical at times and I was not used to that between two same sex characters when I first read the book. In the movie it was there too, especially at the end, they were standing so close and stared in each other's eyes for so long that I really was expecting a big wet sloppy kiss and I could not help but think of WT in the Body when Frodo kissed Sam on the forehead. Though I would not insult Tara so much as to compare her to Frodo. Sam is too good a man for Frodo, so I am very happy he got his Rosey.



As for Gollum, in the book at some points I could sympathize with him and I winced at Sam's harsh treatment of him at times. He does start to care about Frodo, or at least the fact that someone treats him well and he has found a companion, as close to a friend as he ever came since he murdered his best friend over the Ring. He did commit that murder pretty quickly though, so he was not such a nice guy to start out with. Bilbo spared Gollum when he could have killed him over the Ring, Bilbo even gave up the Ring after carrying it around for 60 years. Anyway, in the end I think he died happy with his precious and it was a nice closing of the circle and fulfillment of Gandalf's words. I am a bit miffed that they changed the way he fell into the fire. He fell in dancing, not because Frodo started fighting him. I don't see why they changed that.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/18/04 12:52 pm

[Jennpurr]

Garfield,



Thank you for answering some of my questions. You know, when I first saw the scene where Gollum dies, I thought he WAS going to fall into the fire from dancing.



There's something I have always wondered. When you are making a book into a movie, isn't it against policy/copyright to change things? I guess it's okay if you get permission from the author? I'm just curious how that works?



Jen

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||My Fan Fiction and More!|| ||My Yahoo Group||
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"We wants it, we needs it. Must have the Precious. They stole it from us. Sneaky little hobbitses. Wicked, tricksy, false!" ~ Gollum, "Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers"