Gilmore Girls

[urnofosiris]

Last season Paris gave Rory a quick kiss on the lips as some ´got to have done it once because we are in college now´ kind of thing. There was nothing to it, it was neither offensive nor interesting.

[Garner]

Even I saw that. Still, I am finding that the early eps were definitely better, but I am liking the Lorelai and Luke stuff right now. And I totally agree with Luke that Dean is not good enough for Rory. I hadn't watched the last ep before my last post, but it was funny to see that come up as one of the reasons they are so antagonistic.



Garner

[gspiggott]

I 'm sick of Dean too, but I still prefer him to the horror that was Jess in season 3. I just don't think Amy can write a young guy who doesn't end up being a whiny pain in the ass. Older men like Luke or Richard she can pull off and give them a lot of depth, but Rory's guys usually come across as snotty instead of sexy . Lane's guitarist boyfriend in season 3 was the exception.He was adorable.

[seurat]

Finally caught up to last two ep's of GG last night, and thought they were both decent but unspectacular. Loved Paris and her religon beat, and actually liked Zack's painfully slow reactions- obviously they aren't a likely couple but he is good for a laugh once in a while. Rory and Lorelai delight in taking off their shoes and ordering a pizza at Emily's house was a great pure GG moment. Norman Mailer's cameo was fine and I liked the homemade movie theatre and the Pippi Longstocking stuff. Next week's ep looks a little troubling but they have been doing well this year so far, so hopefully they can pull this off too.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[urnofosiris]

Yeah , not spectacular, but enjoyable enough. Too little Paris, but when she is there, she is rocking and a rolling. last week´s Pippi Longstocking movie going experience was very amusing and it brought back some memories. I used to watch that too, in badly dubbed Dutch. Rory scored some real points this episode by telling her father to leave Lorelai alone. His helpless puppy routine with Lorelai bothered me so much. Grow up man.



Edit:



No Paris at all this time, but it was a very enjoyable episode, very amusing. The only thing that bugged me was the blatant snobbery of Lorelai´s parents. It was so over the top. Whenever that loser father of Rory would cross their path they never made a sound that he is ´not good enough´. Their actions drove Lorelai away when she was a teenager, so what do they think their meddling will do now that she is all grown up and has her own business?

Edited by: DrG at: 11/3/04 2:25 pm

[seurat]

Yeah, I found this ep enjoyable too, even though the whole secret society storyline looked dodgy to me. No Paris, but Lane was in good form, she made me laugh out loud a couple of times. The Emily/Richard behavior didn't really bother me since I like to be reminded once in a while of why Lorelai can't spend much time with them. And I liked Luke's responses, especially on the golf course. He's always just himself, whether talking to the caddy or Richard. And amazingly, the secret society grew on me. And even better, this new guy may signal Dean's departure. Couldn't be soon enough for me.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

Edited by: seurat at: 11/3/04 3:24 pm

[urnofosiris]

You make a good point, I was amused by Luke and his interaction with Lorelai, especially during the whole Emily disaster. The secret society was a bit weird and interesting at the same time, at least I am starting to like Rory much better in these last few episodes.

[seurat]

Well, the writing on this weeks ep wasn't quite as sharp as I would have expected from one of Amy's scripts, but it still had at least one thing going for it. Dean slouched off to oblivion, and about time too. Paris only had one scene, but it was a winner and she gets the best line of the night prize for "sleep with one old guy, and everybody thinks you're Catherine Zeta-Jones." I enjoyed seeing Luke cooking for Lorelai, their relationship continues to be a pleasure to watch. I didn't really buy the scene with Lane and the exchange student, or maybe I just don't believe the exchange student herself. It did bring back fun memories of Lane's incredible talent at living her own life despite her mother's restictions. Finally, I liked seeing LorelaI's realization at the end that Rory is becoming a different person that she expects her to be. Not worse necessarily, but different.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[urnofosiris]

Well you summed it up for me. I did find the scene with Luke´s brother in law a bit annoying. I know he is a dork, but I really would have kicked him out. Dean gave up really easy, so she came out of the house dressed like a princess followed by a small army of wannabe preppy princes, that ´I don´t belong here´ comment reeked of self pitying melodrama. Though as far as I am concerned he does not belong on that show, like Jess, he has zero sense of humor or interesting quirks that make him even remotely amusing.

[Garner]

Actually, though it will probably turn out for the worse or somehow be a disaster, I sort of like Logan (is that the blonde secret society guy's name?) and could definitely see him being more interesting for Rory than Jess or Dean. At least he seems to have more of a sense of humor and despite the ivy league prep snobby blue blood stereotype and background, seems like he might be able to rise above that. Of course I expect him to end up to be a callow, women abusing, amoral, self absorbed pinhead because that would be the stereotype as well and I would be surprised if they rose above that. Something will go horribly wrong with this soon. But so far I like him.



I also would have booted the brother in law in a second, but then not having been in that situation maybe not. It did seem like a downer and not very funny and sort of sucked the amusement out of the middle of the episode.



Garner

[urnofosiris]

I am not sure what to think of that rich blond guy, but I certainly like him better than Dean and Jess. I am sure the guy Rory was with at the end of this week´s episode will be wooing her too before long. Bless Paris, she needs more screentime.

[seurat]

Ok, was I the only one wishing Rory had left the door open when she was talking to Lorelai so I could hear what was going on between Paris and Marty? Ah, Paris, my Paris. Loved her and her Ramadan issues. As for Marty making a play for Rory, I'd say that's already started. That dropping by with goodies move seemed fairly transparent to me. I've come around to your way of thinking about T.J. He needs something large to fall on his head, I was thinking a bus would be good. Some of the Emily/Richard material worked, some didn't. I did appreciate the final shot, it seemed realistic. The town council and meeting stuff was good, could have used more of that and less of Sookie's irrational food demands which I thought they'd already milked for all the laughs it could ever hope to get. All in all, another decent ep but not a really memorable one.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[Garner]

Hossenfeffers! I missed this last episode due to VCR tape jam. Yuck! So what happened? Which one is Marty? He isn't the blonde haired secret society guy is he? What IS his name anyway? Sounds like there were a few highlights at least. Any Luke/Lorelai stuff? Maybe next week's will be a bit more cool.



Garner

[urnofosiris]

You should try to download it. Lolerai called Christopher because she had not heard from him after that one time and invited him to lunch at the inn. She invited Rory as well who was not at all happy to see daddy with mommy. Rightly so, me not likey Christopher. Lorelai got called away and Rory basically scared her father away and afterwards she told Lorelai that she had told him to stay away because she did not want him to mess things up with Luke. Lorelai protested that nothing was going on etc.

Rory then asked what Luke had said about the lunchdate. Lorelai lied and said he was fine with it. It is clear she was starting to wonder whether there really was nothing to her lunchdate with Christopher and in a round about guilty way she ended up telling Luke who acted all casual, but later when he was talking to his brother in law about it, he was clearly uneasy. After he and Lorelai shared a goodbye kiss he told her he was ok about that lunch date, not sure whether he meant it. Big flashing neon signs that there will be there trouble in paradise might have been more subtle.



Marty is the guy from several episodes ago who was talking to Rory when she first met Mr Blond guy (don´t know his name either). He recognized Marty because he had served drinks at one of their rich parties. It is obvious that both he and Marty will be pursuing Rory. I agree the pizza was an obvious start to that.

Edited by: DrG at: 11/18/04 1:49 pm

[seurat]

The rich blond guy who may or may not turn out to be a jerk is Logan. He is in at least a couple more ep's , so I for one will make an actual effort to remember his name. No promises though.



Nice update job on the Luke/Lorelai stuff G. Don't think you missed anything important. There was a fairly good scene at the beginning with Luke and Lorelai when she was on the phone with Rory and using the phone behind the cash. Luke doesn't allow customers to use that phone, and it seems girlfriends don't get special phone access either. And in retrospect it seems the only reason T.J. was in the ep was to provide someone for Luke to talk with about Lorelai. Better they should give him a pet to tell his troubles to.



No show next week btw. Must be U.S. Thanksgiving time again.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

Edited by: seurat at: 11/18/04 1:25 pm

[Garner]

Thanks for the updates and explanations. I hope that Logan doesn't go away as I sort of like him so far. He would be interesting with Rory. Marty is a non-entity and I don't remember a thing about him. That might say something. I hope that the Luke/Lorelai stuff doesn't implode this quickly, they seem too perfect for each other.



Garner

[urnofosiris]

I doubt they will break up, but I got the distinct impression they (the writers) will use Christopher to stir up trouble. I expect Richard and Emily to meddle some more. We´ll see. Logan is sort of interesting, I think we will probably see more of Marty from now on. He has barely had screentime so far, so that may be why he does not ring many bells.

[seurat]

The latest GG was one of Amy's scripts, and although not one of her very best efforts I still thought it was really good. I started laughing before the speed-dating scene even really started, knowing that Paris was about to demolish some poor unsuspecting wanna-be dates. Not thrillled that she paired off with the editor guy, but it does make some sense I suppose. The storyline with the girl visiing from Chilton was fine, and I liked the little drama scene that Logan and pals put on for Rory. The first scene with Marty and Rory was interesting to me, Marty's reaction to Rory's assessment of their relationship was well done and I liked Rory's total obliviousness to his feelings towards her. (Although I do think it's about time they let her wise up a bit about this kind of thing, she's clearly become a head turner and at some point she needs to realize that.) And Paris was great with the kid from Chilton too.



The Luke/Lorelai stuff went better than I expected, it was good to see Luke really wigging out about something and being a jerk as real people occasionally will be. And I liked what he said to Lorelai too, even though he took it all back later, she does see things differently that most people. You gotta love her for it, but there must be times that it would get a bit much. I missed the last few seconds of the ep so I don't know how the Richard/Logan scene ended, hopefully Richard wasn't serious.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[urnofosiris]

No he was not serious, Rory had put him up to it. He had me going for a second though, so I can´t blame Logan for falling for it. I liked the episode, some real hilarious scenes, all the ones with Paris for starters. She was as crazy as she ever was, how can you not love her.

I thought Luke was being a big asshole about that boat. Lorelai going out of her way to save the damn thing was done out of love, not because of her tendency to not listen. Dark day or not, I don´t think that excuses the way he acted. Still, they kissed and made up, so whatever floats Lorelai´s boat is fine by me. It was amusing that everyone knew about his dark day when the Lorelai did not. I mean has there ever been a day that she did not go to his diner?

Anyway, this is a show I definitely want to keep downloading.

[Garner]

Marty's a dweeb. Now I remember why I didn't remember him. I hope he is gone soon as I don't think he is right for Rory, though I also would not call her a head turner either. She is too bookish and not that pretty, though I can understand why she wouldn't consider herself attractive even though she is. Just not in the "hot" category.



I actually liked Paris and Danny Strong together, that was pretty cool and seemed to fit. You are all right that this was a very funny ep in many parts. I loved Logan's prank and the way Rory got back at him was great too. I tend to think that Logan isn't right for Rory either as they are almost opposite personality types. He being devil may care, arrogant (a bit at least) and not serious while she is much more studious, serious and almost anal at times. I did love that Lorelai checked with Rory about Luke's dark day and if she had noted anything in her journal, that was amusing.



Luke and Lorelai ended up in a better place than I expected, which was really nice. I tend to think these "dark day" sort of things are ridiculous and a cop out to be an asshole for a day or so, and Luke was acting off, but at least he admitted it, apologized for it, and even warned Lorelai ahead of time and explained what was up, that was cool. And Lorelai does often do stuff without really thinking about the other person's perspective, though I agree she did it out of love. Why she just didn't hide it at the inn to start with is beyond me. She had to know Luke would probably see the boat in the garage.



Overall, this was one of the better eps so far.



Garner

[seurat]

New ep's of GG are back, or fresh episodes as the WB insists on calling them. It was good to have the show back, but I can't say this was anything more than a decent ep. Amy didn't write it, so it didn't have quite the zing of her dialogue, bit I still liked it. Not enough Paris, and no Lane at all, but Kirk was in good form I thought and I guess they couldn't do the war re-enactors thing without involving Taylor. The dog subplot was fine, and Lorelai and her love/hate relationship with snow was great. She really can't skate though can she? Wonder how many takes they had to do of that, just to get wobbling around for a few seconds.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[Garner]

I agree that last week's didn't have the zest of an Amy or Daniel written episode, but it was nice nonetheless. I watched while it was recording and on second watching thought it worked a bit better than initially. The whole snow thing was amusing and it was cool to see Luke try and make things right for her again.



This last one this week was also nice. I loved seeing Emily and Richard get back together, that was nice and the whole thing was handled well. I also loved Luke getting the TV and putting it in his room. It just goes to show how much he loves Lorelai and I hope they end up staying together. The part where Emily sicks Chris on them made sense from her point of view, but for me Chris is Lorelai's past. He was right for her earlier, but is a bit too flakey and really doesn't know the current Lorelai. Luke does and he is the one for her now. I also really liked Logan being blissfully ignorant of Rory wanting to go with him and yet not being able to just come out and ask him to take her. That was amusing. I like Logan and hope they last for awhile. My guess is that Jess will somehow break things up for them. Some sort of confrontation and Logan will do something, or his friends might, that will piss Rory off and make her leave him. Which all could be interesting. As long as she doesn't end up with Marty. Eewww. And the whole Lane parts in this one were very good too. I liked Mrs. Kim's part quite a bit. A good ep, though not fantastic.



Garner

[seurat]

Yeah, it was another good but not great episode. I find it hard to believe that Lane taking her glasses off could make such a difference in her appearance, but it did and I almost didn't recognize her without them. All the stuff between her, the band and her mom was really well done as usual. I'm not sure that Logan is "blissfully ignorant" though, I think he might be playing Rory a bit. He is a step above both Dean and Jess in the sophistication department, wouldn't you say? I watched the ep again last night, and it still seems to me that he knew what she wanted from the beginning, and decided this wasn't the time to invite her. As for Jess, or He-Whose-Name-Must-Not-Be-Spoken, I so hope that you're wrong about him coming back. We can only take so much punishment.



I also liked the Luke/Lorelai stuff, especially the fact that she was so bored without tv that she had begun to memorize his appliance manuals. And I appreciated the reference to Charlie Rose and to Dark Shadows later. All good material,if Amy had written the dialogue it would have been just that extra bit funnier. Speaking of Amy I forgot to mention last week that she has been profiled in the Sunday New York Times. Lots of interesting bio info in the piece, and she did mention that her only difficulty with the network these days is regarding the budget. Paricularly the budget for the 100th episode that airs next week. Should be fun seeing what she spent all the money on.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

Edited by: seurat at: 2/3/05 6:28 pm

[urnofosiris]

I liked this episode, it made me hate Emily though. Until now her snobbery seemed sort of amusing and more annoying to Lorelai than really malignant, but after that final scene she is just a callous bitch in my opinion who cares more about status than her daughter´s happiness. I do not for a second believe that Emily truly believes Lorelai would be more happy with that wimpy loser Chris and that she thinks she´s acting in her daughter´s best interest.

[Ben Varkentine.]

Hi,

Just checking in to say that thanks to reruns on ABC Family, I am now officially "one of you" (a Gilmore Girls fan). Being able to watch it all from the beginning really helped--in my experience the show can be kind of overwhelming if you're "dropped down in the middle."

Of course now I'm going to do just that when I start watching the show in "real time," (just in time for the 100th episode, how cool) but at least I have a grounding.

For the record I am anti-Jess, pro-Dean, and don't know anything about the new boyfriend(s) yet. I'll probably try to catch up with the first part of this season through online transcripts, but if anyone wants to recommend a good download site...

Incidentally, there's an interview with Amy Sherman-Palladino in the new EW.

Around here and maybe one or two other message boards, plus just generally in the media, I'd gotten the sense that Gilmore S4 was really bad. Well, I watched it and my reaction was: Yes, I can see a few episodes where they're really spinning their wheels hard trying to dig in and get some traction.

Had the same experience watching last year's 24 on DVD--yes, it starts out pretty weak, but damn if it didn't self correct.

So, anyway, here I am. Nice little town you've got here.

Ben

[Gatito Grande]

Just wanna have a fun little drive-by on this thread (I don't watch the show) re "certain rumors" linking Lauren Graham and Marcia Cross* (as in "linking them romantically," of course! )



GG It's probably complete BS (re Graham, anyway). But it's a stim-u-lat-ing image, no? Out



[The rumor---from DataLounge, a thoroughly unreliable source---has Marcia Coming Out, and that she's linked to a brunette star on a WB show. Some comments suggested why Lauren might fit the bill, and Gossip Exploded apace! ]



*Um, Marcia Cross of Desperate Housewives, that is.

[urnofosiris]

Well, welcome to the Gilmore Girls Ben, I agree with you about season 4 and that other stuff being a good basis for comparison. I would like to comment more about this show but am currently too distracted by Gatito´s post. GG, let´s take that to the other thread shall we?

[Garner]

Ben, I am also new to GG and greatly enjoyed the fact that ABC Family showed the whole thing from the start. Having watched it straight through, I found the start of Season 4 a little awkward here or there, but by and large it wasn't as bad as I had been led to believe. I think a lot of people seem to like High School era stuff and either don't understand college or didn't go and think it is all Animal House. I for one am actually sick of High School shows. I actually really liked the Harvard Yale game episode quite a bit and the Spring Break one was awesome too. And how can you not love the little bit with the cats sitting on Lorelai's porch? That was priceless. I also was impressed that they had an ep where Rory and Lorelai couldn't get ahold of each other and how crazy that drove each of them.



For the record I am pro Logan, I like him better than any guy Rory's dated so far. Which I am sure means this is doomed. I prefer Dean to Jess as well, though Jess was smarter and had more in common with Rory while Dean was nicer and did love her but the two really don't have much in common. Which is why I think Logan could be better for her as he is obviously smart, but also roguish and that could be useful for Rory. Marty is dull and I dislike him. I actually grew to like Jason and boy did he get screwed, loses his job, reputation and girl friend in one ep, more or less. But Luke and Lerelai rule!



Emily is one of the more interesting and deeper characters and yet is very shallow at the same time. She can be very nasty, petty and judgemental, and yet she has great insight into how Lorelai might react and values the time she has with both Rory and Lorelai. She shows more vulnerability at times than one would expect and Gran was a perfect foil for that. I said before that I think she really does want the best for Lorelai, sees her as her own failure to an extent, and feels that Chris has the potential to bring Lorelai back to the society and level that Emily feels she deserves to be in. I think she sees Luke as little more than workman, someone beneath her station and certainly beneath Lorelai. Any happiness she has with Luke Emily would see as transitory and fleeting while Chris could bring her the whole package and the two did have Rory so there has to have been (and still is at times) a connection there. Do I agree with her view or what she did at the end of the last episode? No. Most emphatically not, but I find it completely in character. It's part of what makes the show so interesting. And Lorelai doesn't help the relationship with her parents much either. She has a kneejerk response to not tell them anything, to avoid them at all costs, and to shut them out. Even when there is no reason to. You can see this hurts Emily and again this is what gives the show some nuance.



Anyway, the interview with Amy Sherman-Palladino in EW is very interesting. She said they worked on a Jess spin off in Venice but that didn't come through. It also appears that her contract on the show is due to be renewed again in May. Here's hoping she stays on! What attracted me to the show was the buddy/banter of Rory and Lorelai which reminded me of Fox and Hobbes on Invisible Man. It's almost like the mother and daughter have a male buddy relationship and that is pretty neat.



Anyway, as a new devotee that totally loves the show, I hope things continue to go well, the ratings stay high, and we get another season with ASP at the helm.



Garner

[Ben Varkentine.]

Garner,

how can you not love the little bit with the cats sitting on Lorelai's porch? That was priceless.

Funny you should mention that bit. I got in the habit of posting little excerpts from the series scripts on my blog, and that was one of them. Another was from the Yale football game episode ("...what's a football game last? Hour, hour and a half? Longer than an hour and a half? Are you kidding me?")

I haven't seen any episodes with Logan yet, though I have been reading transcripts of the episodes so far this season. So I'll hold off on an opinion till I see the actor.

The thing about Jess & Rory, as Jess showed with his whole "run away with me!" thing, is that they only work in a world in which no one else exists. Which may be fine for him, cause he only seems to have two other people besides Rory that he cares about (Luke & Liz). But it was never going to work for Rory, who has family and friends and a community and "sense of place." It's one of those relationships that was all about the pining; they wanted each other for so long, then got each other and didn't know what to do next.

I'm hoping Dean gets his life together, with or without Rory. As for Marty I don't dislike him but I don't know about him as a possible partner for Rory. Now Paris, on the other hand (don't get me started on how much I love Paris).

I agree with you about Jason; I always liked that actor. I also agree with you about Emily; it's a tribute to the writing and the actress that they take a character who could be almost nothing but shallow and never let you forget the hurt inside.

For her part of it I think Lorelei has mixed feelings of guilt about running away with Rory and being convinced of the rightness of her actions. In shutting her parents out, yes on one level she's acting like a child, but on another they've given her every reason to be wary. To protect the life she's made for herself and that Rory is now starting to make for herself, she has to be a little defensive.

I haven't seen (or read) yet what Emily is doing to bring Chris & Lorelei back together but it should be interesting. I like Chris & Lorelei together; I think that connection is especially well played. But I also like Luke & Lorelei, I like that Sherman-Palladino wasn't afraid to take their relationship to the next step. And the fact is, Luke's been there for both Lorelei & Rory in ways that neither Chris or Richard & Emily have been, and for longer. Maybe this has already happened, but I can see Rory reminding Chris that Luke was at her graduation from Chilton, which he missed.

Ben

[seurat]

Welcome aboard the GG thread Ben. I always envy people a little bit when I hear they are just getting the chance to watch the old GG episodes for the first time, there's so many great moments in there. I still enjoy watching them now on dvd or a rerun, but it's never quite the same as the first time. There were some fine moments in S4, but for those of us spoiled by the quality of the early ep's that year felt like a real step back. I'll still buy it on dvd when they get around to releasing it, but I suspect it will just sit on the shelf gathering dust.



One of the great strengths of the show is the well-roundedness of many of the characters, like Richard and Emily for example. I didn't comment on Emily's latest nastiness because it is entirely in keeping with the way the show has handled her all along. She has many decent qualities and can be quite likable, but you can see why Lorelai has her antenna up all the time around her and they continually remind us that she can be a horrible person. Nobody on the show is a cardboard cutout - well, maybe Taylor- and even our ######## have their flaws and moments of blindness or deep stupidity. Thanks for the heads up on the EW story, and I got a feeling the 100th ep is going to tell us a lot more about Logan.



ETA- I don't have any info to add on the rumor mentioned earlier, but it is interesting that her bio tells us something about her chidhood but nothing much about her private life since then. Maybe she just likes to keep it private. Can't argue with that. Lauren is on the Ellen chat show tomorrow btw, and she's always worth catching on these shows, rumor or no rumors.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

Edited by: seurat at: 2/7/05 3:56 pm