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Joan of Arcadia

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Re: Last night's episode

Postby seurat » Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:52 pm

I've never loved this show the way some have, so it hasn't had as far to fall in my estimation. But I'm afraid that I have to agree that the show is in terrible shape at the moment, and I'm not sure I will be watching anymore. I was unspoiled too, not for lack of trying btw but I wasn't able to find the specific info of what was going to happen. I suspected however that killing off Judith was the logical easy way to add some drama to the season. I'll miss the character and the presence of the actress, but that's not why I'm downgrading this to an occasional watch from a must-see. What bothered me the most was the doctor-God 's conversation with Joan. Judith, brought this all on herself it seems by not hanging out with 'good people" and being more interested in 'dark' than 'light'. Granted that Judith wouldn't have been stabbed in that manner if she hadn't been there with those people. But to even intimate that if she had been behaving in a more positive manner - however you can define that - would somehow insure her against harm is a pathetic argument.

What's worse for me is that it puts the show in the same category as 7th Heaven or Touched By An Angel. The acting on the show is still strong, and I still like Becky and Amber very much as performers, so I won't avoid watching. But too many more ep's like this one and I won't be able to tolerate it at all.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves



seurat
 


Re: Party of Joan

Postby xita » Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:44 pm

I liked this show, but I didn't looove this show. I am determined to never do that again. Anyway, I didn't like judith, I read the spoilers and even my disklike of her didn't make me tune in. I am just not enjoying the show. It's like endless misery and you know I want to be entertained. I guess people who enjoy luke/grace might be getting their fun that way but I might not watch it till they break up or something or I hear from you guys it's gotten much better.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."


xita
 


Re: Party of Joan

Postby TaraBaby77 » Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:18 am

Ummm, I am not as good as a lot of you, when comes to explaining my review of this last ep. I just got done watching it and I enjoyed it. I'm probably the only one that did. I'm definitely not going to admit my :cry over the fact that Judith was starting to grow on me. But nevermind my 2 cents. Sad ending to an episode that I thought was going to end differently. Yeap, that's my 2 cents. Nite Nite. =)

Aaron

'Tarababy77'


"Don't buy into all the media crap. Love yourself for who you are, not what others THINK you should look like. It's DEFINITELY more important in this life to love each other despite our imperfections." - Amber Benson

TaraBaby77
 


Re: Party of Joan

Postby tyche » Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:11 pm

As the person who started this thread, I am honestly not sure if I want my name attached to it any more. Sorry, but this is NOT a general 'Joan of Arcadia' discussion thread any more, and it hasn't been for some time. It's all about Grace and Judith. That's it. (I would have the exact same reaction if people were solely focusing on the new police chief or Kevin or Adam. For what it's worth - and yeah, I know that since I'm not a moderator, this means very little - the reason I started this thread was for general discussion of the show, not a discussion that focuses exclusively on one or two characters.) If that's what people want this thread to be, then I have absolutely no objections to that. But if that's the kind of discussion thread people want, we should change the title of thread to something that reflects its actual contents better, largely because I wouldn't want anyone who's new to this board to stumble across this thread and get the impression that it's a thread for people who a) might enjoy watching and/or discussing Joan of Arcadia and b) want to discuss characters or issues on the show other than those relating to Grace and/or Judith.

I am making this post because I've tried to raise this issue with the moderators, but they've ignored me. So all I can do is post this and see what people think.

Oh yeah, and I believe at least one person who posts regularly in this thread has publicly called the Luke/Grace relationship 'disgusting'. Sorry, but if Grace was dating a girl and people on JoA boards were saying it was 'disgusting', we would be up in arms complaining about how prejudiced and homophobic they were. I find it really, really disturbing that a board whose members should know better than to engage in ANY KIND of prejudice or discrimination against any kind of relationship (be it gay or straight) would indulge in and tolerate behaviour of this kind, and it's downright hypocritical that we do.

And I am expecting this to get deleted pretty darn quickly. I really do not want this to turn into a fight. Just an honest discussion about the kind of thread we want this to be.

Pro bono, which I think means,'Sucker Who Doesn't Get Paid' in Latin.

- Veronica Mars

Edited by: tyche at: 11/16/04 2:18 pm
tyche
 


Re: Party of Joan

Postby urnofosiris » Tue Nov 16, 2004 3:32 pm

Quote:
Oh yeah, and I believe at least one person who posts regularly in this thread has publicly called the Luke/Grace relationship 'disgusting'. Sorry, but if Grace was dating a girl and people on JoA boards were saying it was 'disgusting', we would be up in arms complaining about how prejudiced and homophobic they were. I find it really, really disturbing that a board whose members should know better than to engage in ANY KIND of prejudice or discrimination against any kind of relationship (be it gay or straight) would indulge in and tolerate behaviour of this kind, and it's downright hypocritical that we do.




If someone on a JoA board would call a Grace/girl relationship disgusting I personally could care less and would not be up in arms about it, I know full well there are homophobes out there, but we do not discuss other boards here specifically. It also depends a bit on the sentiment behind the comment doesn´t it? I did not see that comment, I would not call it that, but there have been relationships between TV characters that I have found to be disgusting, regardless of gender pairings. I can imagine someone might find a Grace/girl relationship disgusting for reasons other than homophobia, but seeing as homophobia is a common reason for disliking a same-sex relationship I would probably be inclined to think that was the reason for the disgust. So if someone were to post that here I would definitely ask for more details.



I am straight if I do say so myself and I have never encountered heterophobia, not here, not anywhere, so maybe that is why I did not even notice this comment and now that you have brought it up I can´t take offense at it, because I don´t think anyone here meant to suggest or believes that heterosexuality is disgusting and wrong and should be punished, forbidden or any of the other lovely sentiments usually attributed to homophobia. Maybe you should have just quoted that person and asked for a clarification or you could have mailed first to check what was the intent behind the remark before making general accusations of prejudice, discrimination and hypocrisy. I don´t know what other people think, but I find that offensive.



No one broke the FAQ as far as I can tell, but you can always email one of the moderators if you feel we have been in remiss, preferably with an exact quote and the name of the poster. You say you have tried to raise this issue with us, but I don´t think we have received a message nor have I seen you address your concerns specifically in a post addressed at us (I could have missed it, I don´t catch every post).

Sometimes threads can get stuck on one particular issue until someone breaks the flow, but after looking back these past few pages I still think the discussion is rather diverse, but it is not an obligation, people are free to like or dislike this show and focus on whatever they want that has to do with it. You can discuss all the (general) aspects you like and dislike and counter any statements someone else makes with your own arguments.



Edited a million times because of horrible crappy grammar, I did not get it all out, but I tried dammit.









Edited by: DrG at: 11/16/04 3:16 pm
urnofosiris
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby urnofosiris » Tue Nov 16, 2004 4:37 pm

Actually that was a small part of the many points tyche made and only part of the replies, but you just did it too. :p Man, I would love nothing better than never hearing about Grace/**** again, but it is kind of hard with having them suck face every episode. Judith being the new character usurping Grace´s place and then getting killed is a natural reason why she would be discussed a lot. Joan´s relationship with god has all but disappeared this season, or so it seems to me, everything is just so different from last year. I don´t know what to talk about anymore. Well I do: nothing, I won´t watch anymore until I trust that things have picked up. I am just very disappointed because last year this was show I really liked. I like Amber Tamblyn, Becky Wahlstrom and the rest of the cast, I loved the humor and originality of this show I loved the characters. I would gladly love them again. Here´s hoping.

Edited by: DrG at: 11/16/04 4:12 pm
urnofosiris
 


Re: Party of Joan

Postby Kieli » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:06 pm

I wonder if Tyche is referring to my

Quote:
except for the Luke/Grace dynamic which still sets off my Squick Meter.
I don't like the pairing. Plain and simple. I don't have to like it just like people didn't have to like the pairing of another couple that will remain unnamed. I found the dynamic boring and just shudderworthy. I'd almost prefer to see Grace with any person OTHER than Luke, gay or straight. Just to clarify.


Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Kieli
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby seurat » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:17 pm

It's easy for me to understand Tyche's frustration at seeing a thread meant to discuss a fave show become dominated by negative comments on the show in general or certain aspects of it, since altho I didn't start the Wonderfalls thread, I was one of the lonely few that ever liked the show. So, yeah, I can relate to that. I think the reason some of the criticism in this thread may seem strong is that a lot of people really liked the show before and were invested in the characters, especially Grace. it makes the letdown when the show goes south more painful.



As to the point that the thread is concentrating too much on the Luke/Grace pairing and on Judith, I can only speak for my own postings. I've never had any great problem with Grace/ Luke, but would rather see her with someone more interesting. And I don't think I'd ever mentioned Judith until my most recent post. My basic problem with the show this season is that I think the script quality has declined to the point that I personally find it nearly unwatchable. Others see it differently, and that's fine. I don't think you need to worry about those kinds of posts much in the future anyway since many of us have thrown in the towel on this show.



I got a chuckle out of following the evolution of your post Garfield.;)

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves



Edited by: seurat at: 11/16/04 4:21 pm
seurat
 


tyche's post

Postby Puff » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:24 pm

I find it interesting that tyche makes many points, the main one being that people that are posting in this thread get stuck on discussing Grace or Judith and not the actual Joan show as a whole. And then what do people do? Go on about the Grace/Luke comment that was made. My sense of humor finds that kind of funny :)



I still really enjoy Joan of Arcadia. It's IMO one of the better shows left on TV, but then I tend to watch Joey and Will & Grace. I would much rather have a thread that focused on the whole show, but I'm not sure that's going to happen.



So back to Joan? This weeks episode looked interesting. I actually like the character of Kevin though.

Puff
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby Kieli » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:25 pm

Hey you're doing way better than me, Garfield and I'm a native speaker! :shock What the hell's my excuse?! :wtf



The problem is, when you make a thread that encompasses a general discussion, you have to have a thick skin b/c people are going to discuss the good and as well as the bad. Any discussion that just trumpets how good something is, is bound to eventually be boring as hell. There is no give and take to make it interesting other than "Ooh I like this!" or "Oooh wasn't that freaking awesome?" I mean, how many times can you say that before you're rolling your eyes and saying "Whatever"?


Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Edited by: Kieli at: 11/16/04 4:28 pm
Kieli
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby urnofosiris » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:44 pm

Quote:
how many times can you say that before you're rolling your eyes and saying "Whatever"?




Well when it comes to WT: indefinitely and forever. :D



Seriously, I do understand it is not particularly enjoyable to read so many negative posts about a show you like, but it is inevitable. WT are the only couple that gets special treatment, but that has always been the case and is only natural given that they are the reason this board exists. If there are (here I go again :p ) Grace/Luke boards, I would not go there to post my feelings. Here, every movie and tv show will get people who like or dislike it posting their opinions.



I started watching this show last year because of the praise it was getting here. I am glad I did, it was really enjoyable when little else on TV was. I hope that JoA will regain what it had last year. I think what I miss the most is the humor, there has been too much drama for my liking this year and I do not think it was original or well done (not talking about the acting, that is great). I thought this week´s episode did have more of the old humor, but in retrospect that was tainted by the bitter ending.









Edited by: DrG at: 11/16/04 4:45 pm
urnofosiris
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby Kieli » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:00 pm

Quote:
I find it interesting that tyche makes many points, the main one being that people that are posting in this thread get stuck on discussing Grace or Judith and not the actual Joan show as a whole.


I'd gladly discuss the show as a whole if the show hadn't been reduced to Joan's immaturity and L/G! But the truth of the matter is, it has been. There's not a single episode that's been worth much (last Friday's episode notwithstanding), that has even been worth discussing. It's been about Luke this, Grace that, Joan acting way more self-centered than she has in the last season and this terminally boring lawsuit storyline. So, since there is a dearth of decent things to say about JoA this season, what did you think the discussion would center around? Kevin's sudden maturity? :shock


Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Kieli
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby urnofosiris » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:20 pm

I should learn to think before I type Seurat, oy.

urnofosiris
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby Gatito Grande » Tue Nov 16, 2004 11:41 pm

tyche, I strongly relate to your sentiment in general: if you like something, it's a buzzkill to hear it criticized (some of you may have seen sam777 and I go round and round re "Friend in Need" on the Xena, Warrior Princess thread: don't rain on my parade! :pray )



Just as difficult for me, is something I love, but that I can see slipping: I tend to go into denial mode (I can't count the times I've been back to a favorite restaurant, had a crappy meal, and then, smiling through my tastebuds' anguish, insisted it was still great. It's like the failure is personal, y'know?)



Specific to the K, we've seen this before, all over the map: from people not becoming as bitter about "certain show(s)" as others have, to threads that have been created, by a fan, only to have more negative voices predominate almost immediately (the Alias thread comes to mind).



To an extent, every "creator" experiences this (and a thread creator no less than any other kind of artist, author, inventor, etc---even a parent! :eek ): you never can tell exactly what will become of one's creation, after you "give birth" to it. To some extent, you need to learn to let go: if one's creation becomes unrecognizable, just move on.



(Suggestion: maybe we need an all-purpose "I love, Love, LOVE this TV show!" thread? Therein, whatever comments made about whatever show are always positive: this would remove the buzzkill factor)



Oh well, as far as JofA goes, I haven't given up yet (like the GG "Restaurant-Gone-Downhill" Phenomenon, that would be tough for me to do at any rate). If I should, however, you have my word that I will not suddenly return to haunt the thread: "What, you people are still watching THIS?"



GG Life's too short to dwell on the negative. :peace Out



FWIW, I am not bored by the lawsuit subplot: it's obviously pivotal to the Girardi family, inc. our Eponymous Heroine.



As far as Luke/Grace: y'know, there was an ep or three last year, where I could kind of see it (even as I was rooting for---hope-against-hope---Grace to get w/ Joan). I do know that I really liked Luke last year, and said as much. I haven't bought the execution of the 'ship this year, but I am not resolved that it couldn't work, only that it isn't (I think the relationship would improve by being portrayed a little kinkier: like if Grace, Totally 'Tudeful, said to Luke "Who's Your Daddy?!" ;) Whips-n-chains optional! :devilish )

Gatito Grande
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby urnofosiris » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:38 am

Quote:
(Suggestion: maybe we need an all-purpose "I love, Love, LOVE this TV show!" thread? Therein, whatever comments made about whatever show are always positive: this would remove the buzzkill factor)




Well you could, but it is no guarantee that would work either. Even in the "I love this movie" and "I hate this movie" threads there are posts that express the opposite sentiments. What to do when that happens?

I have never gotten the impression that people have posted negative opinions about a movie or TV show with the intent to rain on my or other people´s parades. I can understand it can be frustrating to read negative posts about something you like, but at the same time I can understand people will want to share their criticism as well, you posted in that thread about that movie by our not so good friend Mel G as well Gatito, and not to cheer it on, but that thread was started by someone who did like that movie. I can also understand it working the other way around, as was the case in that thread, I found it not easy to read praise for something I disliked so much. To separate like and dislike into two separate threads won´t work.



To look at the glass half full it does keep a thread alive. I would have loved to talk about LAX, even with someone who hates everything about it, it would be a good excuse for me to talk about the stuff I like about it. As it is, my poor thread has sunk like the Titanic, a teeny tiny Titanic. If a thread takes a turn you don´t like it can help to try and turn it around, like you yourself do in the xena thread, make passionate posts about all the things you like about it. Sometimes it only takes one post or even one line to change a subject. See, I have not mentioned you know who this entire post. :p

Ok so I have not mentioned JoA at all in this post, but that too can happen in reply to a certain issue which causes a thread to evolve. To get back on track again: I think you´ve convinced me to watch at least one more episode because I am curious to see how they will handle the aftermath. I´ll bite my tongue if I´ll regret it. ;)

Edited by: DrG at: 11/17/04 3:39 am
urnofosiris
 


Re: There's a read for LAX???

Postby Kieli » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:05 am

Where? Where? :shock


Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Kieli
 


Re: There's a read for LAX???

Postby urnofosiris » Wed Nov 17, 2004 11:11 am

Here it is Kieli. Trash it, praise it, go for it. :flirt

urnofosiris
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby Gatito Grande » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:21 pm

Quote:
Even in the "I love this movie" and "I hate this movie" threads there are posts that express the opposite sentiments. What to do when that happens?




Well, since you asked Garfield, that's always struck me as kinda curious (in regards to moderation): why not just Repost negative comments to the "Hate, hate" thread, and positive comments to the "Love, love" one? (I almost posted to the "Love, love" thread yesterday, merely because someone just mentioned Mulholland Drive on the "Hate, hate." But, I think I've spilled more than enough virtual ink on that film's thread---wherein both positive and negative comments are found, as usual---so I demurred.)



GG Re "Passion of the Mel": you may recall, G, that that thread was entitled "Hesitantly: the Passion of the Christ"---so it was clear from the beginning that the thread creator expected there might NOT be unanimous praise! :stink (Not that I think such a disclaimer in the thread title was necessary in order to offer critique) Out



Does anybody else here think it strange that the "Adam knows about---and now believes in---Joan's missions from God" plot point was intro'd in the season finale last season, and the season premiere this year, and then completely and utterly dropped? :wtf (If someone knows something about this fact in the future, I'd love to see that addressed, in spoiler code!)

Gatito Grande
 


Re: tyche's post

Postby urnofosiris » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:10 pm

See, I interpreted that thread title not as an invitation for critical posts but more as a ´I´m hesitant to post this because I worry someone will post and trash this movie I like, but I will post it anyway because I did like it and I do want to talk about it and I just hope it won´t get flamed too much´. I could be wrong, but then again, so could you. I did not check as there is no rule that says you can only post positive opinions about a movie, so as far as I am concerned your posts in that thread were as much on topic as the positive ones. I can say the same about the posts you have made in this thread, this season. If you look back on them there are a lot of rolling eyes, wtf and depressed smilies in them. Also quite a bit of criticism and not just about you know those two. That is fine. No disclaimer in this thread or any other is necessary either to offer praise or critique. You can criticize a show/movie someone else likes and vice versa.



Quote:
Does anybody else here think it strange that the "Adam knows about---and now believes in---Joan's missions from God" plot point was intro'd in the season finale last season, and the season premiere this year, and then completely and utterly dropped? :wtf




I do think it is strange. Everything seemed to be written with such care and precision last season, for example the police storylines having either a direct link or at least have something in common with the issues Joan was dealing with, this season, not so much. Adam believing Joan in this (rather suddenly it seemed to me) and then nothing? There has got to be so much he would want to know, if he really believes her that is. I am actually not sure he does, maybe that is why he has not pressed her to talk about it. I know Joan was in denial herself at the start of this season and did not want to discuss it, but I don´t think that is enough reason why this has not been addressed again. Hmm, maybe now that Judith has been killed this will be the moment for them to talk about it. I think I will go look for some spoilers.





Edited by: DrG at: 11/17/04 7:51 pm
urnofosiris
 


Re: Episode of 11/19

Postby Hemiola » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:58 pm

I personally found this past Friday's (11/19) episode quite moving.



It's good to see that there is a serious aftermath to the death of Judith, but it's also good to get some nice backstory on the accident. Finally, I thought the whole Joan-remembers-Luke's-birthday-with-a-little-help-from-Big-G story to be really touching.



Also, I can't help but be amused by the fact that there is now such a large number of "God's" (not to be confused with "gods";) ) that poor Joan is never sure who "is" and who "isn't"--vide the interactions with the parking enforcer and the court clerk:lol .



Also very much enjoyed the "new" God personas--Fortune-Teller God and, dare I say it, "Gay God":laugh



Edited by: Hemiola at: 11/20/04 1:59 pm
Hemiola
 


Re: Episode of 11/19

Postby urnofosiris » Sat Nov 20, 2004 5:37 pm

That was a gay god alright. Very interesting. I hope that won´t be a one time appearance. In any case it made up for "Dr."Dan. What a turd. I was feeling pissed off yet again at mother Girardi for forcing her daughter to talk to that frog. Blergh. Loved her kicking some principal ass though. All in all, I found this episode to be ok, ok enough to give it another go next week. So I´m still not giving up. It will take more to make me get past some of the previously discussed questionable messages in the past episodes, but maybe this was a start. The look on Joan´s face when those two kissed was priceless. My only laugh to come out of that relationship. Amber Tamblyn really is a joy to watch. I am still having major issues with that law suit. It is so utterly ridiculous that this is happening. I really wished they would have come up with another excuse to let them remember that night. Oh and Glynis, how I had missed her, only like 20 seconds of her, but quality seconds they were.

Edited by: DrG at: 11/20/04 4:39 pm
urnofosiris
 


JoA

Postby Puff » Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:11 pm

Not a bad epsiode like Dr G mentioned. I'm not sure I'll enjoy next week though. It looks cringe worthy. I liked Gay God too :)

Puff
 


Joan

Postby anyone somewhere » Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:36 pm

I haven't been watching this season although I did see one episode so far and not even the whole thing. After seeing Grace and Luke play tonsil hockey I felt my lunch start to move. Ugh I can't stand them as a couple. It doesn't make one bit of sense to me but I'm not the one making the big bucks not making sense.

anyone somewhere
 


Re: Joan

Postby xita » Sat Nov 20, 2004 10:28 pm

It's obvious it isn't only the grace/luke dislikers who are disappointed with this season. Entertainment Weekly picked it as one of the shows that needs to be fixed. I've complained about some of those things, mostly the dark, depressing tone.



From EW:



Problem: Good God, where have all the disciples gone? The Amber Tamblyn starrer, which debuted to critical acclaim last year, has lost nearly 2 million viewers this fall. And that’s not the only downer: the stories have become so dark and depressing that Joan is in danger of going to that great lineup in the sky.



Evidence: One bummer episode saw Joan sell clothes that were supposed to benefit the homeless and use the money to get her belly button pierced. Meanwhile, the family of the boy responsible for the car accident that paralyzed Kevin (Jason Ritter) decided to sue Joan’s family for emotional distress. Somebody please pass the Prozac.



In its defense: While “incredibly perplexed by the ratings [slide],” CBS Entertainment president Nina Tassler admits that some episodes have been too dark. “Were’ going to balance the tone, and we’re also looking at whether it’s becoming too serialized. But you won’t see diminished support from CBS.”



Solution: The show should get back to playing to its strengths *the series is at its best when Joan and the deity engage in witty repartee). And CBS has the blessing of a great promotional platform on Thursday night with CSI and Without a Trace; the network should use it to give Joan more face time with viewers.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."


xita
 


Re: Joan

Postby Gatito Grande » Sun Nov 21, 2004 1:53 am

It never ceases to amaze me when critics confuse "dark" and bad. Dark can be very good---bad, by definition, ain't.



To wit: Luke/Grace isn't dark. It's all affirming, and safe, and happy. Look: the girl is getting over her neuroses! The nerd boy is getting the girl! :luv



It also isn't True (to at least one of the characters). :miff IMHO, of course.



So, there's been this Big Ol' Build-Up, to get them "out of the closet" as it were (because that's where boy/girl relationships---of same race and similar social class---routinely get forced into {snort}). Now, wouldn't it be a twist, if now---neuroses overcome, patient good-heartedness rewarded, Put a Spotlight on 'Em public-ness---they broke up? :devilish



GG Ooops, can't have that: "Too Dark." Besides, that would leave our formerly sexually-ambiguous female boyless again {ye gods---well, God!} :happy Out



But yeah, that's not what the previews hint at anyway. :sigh

Gatito Grande
 


Re: Joan

Postby urnofosiris » Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:28 am

Quote:
Put a Spotlight on 'Em public-ness---they broke up?




If only. I´m told that is not unheard of that teenage relationships break up after several months. Luke/Glynis did not last very long either. It could be amusing to have them go back to their former genuine bickering.



Quote:
One bummer episode saw Joan sell clothes that were supposed to benefit the homeless and use the money to get her belly button pierced.




I must have totally blocked that out, I really don´t remember this, but I agree with the rest of that little blurb. I thought this week´s episode had some of the strong points from last year. The gods and their converstations were amusing and the tone not preachy like it has been the previous episodes. The scene in the gym amused me, probably because Glynis was there, can´t go wrong with her. I have not seen the preview so I have no idea what lies ahead.

urnofosiris
 


Luke/Grace and Judith

Postby Iamyouknowyours » Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:57 am

In response to the post about the negetivity and lack of generalness on this thread. First off I like Grace and I like Luke, just not in the way they've been paired. I've stated several times that they had a great chemistry last season, and though I would prefer to see Grace with a girl purely because she would have been an interesting and original gay/lesbian/questioning character, she and Luke would be fine with me if their coupling was written in an intelligent and in character manner. I do not buy for a second Luke being the one in control and Grace basically being his wimpy little bitch. The reverse would be more in character and much more interesting and amusing. But again everything I'm writing is my opinion and mine alone.



I also have talked about Joan and Adam quite a bit. The thing is they barely have a relationship anymore so it's hard to mention them. I shouldn't talk about the word on the street too much, but there's a chance they're trying to write down or out his role. I would believe that's a possibility given the amount and quality of his screen time lately.



It's impossible to not mention Judith, because the first half of this season has been the Judith show. Whether or not you like the actress or thee character, I believe Judith was one of the main forces messing up the dynamic between the other characters. I also think the writers have spontaniously lost touch with what it means to be in high school and what it is to have an original thought.



The negitivity is expected because the show has changed drastically, and most of the people posting seem to agree with me that it is not for the better. 2 million other viewers seem to agree with me also. Another word on the street is that the show may be canceled. This is just movie set gossip so take it with a pound of salt, but the article posted here seems to hint at that as well. I'm considering writing a brief letter letting them know of my likes and dislikes for this season. If enough people wrote and they heard enough of the same thing, who knows? Maybe they'd take the hint. But there might have been too much suckiness already to repair. Unless ... I got it! This season so far has been a result of the lime disease! I'm a genius. This season was the hallucination and not the visions of God!!! See, I really should write for them.



Sorry if anyone dislikes my comments. But they're just that ... comments. If anyone loves the show right now, just post that. No one's gonna jump down your throat unless maybe if you said something to the effect of "thank god Grace is going straight cuz I hate lesbians" or something, which no one on this board would probably say because hello it is overall a Willow Tara board so everyone obviously is ok with same sex relationships, especially if they are as beautiful as our Willow and Tara was/is.



This is not an issue of heterophobia. I can't read anyone's minds obviously, but I have seen no sign that anyone on this board is at all heterophobic. A few people might be extra sensitive to homophobia or transgenderaphomia (I'm not sure the correct term for that) because so many members of this board deal with those issues on a daily basis. But my experience has been that this is a very supportive place. And as someone who likes many of the chocolates in the box, let me assure you I am far from heterophobic myself. I just have a prejudice against bad writing and lousy character development.

Edited by: Iamyouknowyours at: 11/22/04 10:00 am
Iamyouknowyours
 


Re: No Future

Postby Kieli » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:56 pm

Overall, this ep was weak IMHO. Some things I liked: Friedman's vain attempts to move on after Judith's death, Joan's amazing astuteness as compared to the rest of her family (that is something has always endeared me to her and made me amazed at her depth of perception of the world around her), Helen's no-nonsense attitude when it came to Joan and Price (and it's about freakin' time too).



Some things I didn't like: The parents being so wrapped up in this deposition that they're still ignoring the rest of the family at large (lessons SO not learned from before the accident until now), Lt. Preston's really pathetic attempts to be laid back to impress Helen (that whole thing just grated on my nerves) and Price's sudden change into thinking Adam is now a genius. So his attitude toward Joan can remain set in concrete but his attitude towards Adam has now done a complete 180? I didn't buy it. What bugged me somewhat was that Adam would've never done many of the things that he did to get a career if Joan hadn't encouraged him, helped him or told him about opportunities. Although I know Adam loves Joan and means well, we don't see him doing the same for her. She's pretty much left floundering around, trying to feel her way out of many bad situations alone, helping other people instead. I'm sure she's feeling very much like a failure when she shouldn't. And blast it all, I'm as irritated as she is that it seems everyone has forgotten Judith...like she was a mere blip on the map. Apparently, this showing that Joan is the only one who really cared whether or not Judith existed (well except for Friedman). It's sad.



I found myself deeply moved by Joan's deposition. While all of her other family members remember all of the self-absorbed tripe in their lives (i.e. petty arguments, countdowns to birthdays, etc), only Joan seemed to realize that important things were going on around her that could affect her life and other lives forever. Her observations (other than the otherwise mundane watching television with Luke) were very profound for a teen, very sensitive to what was going on around her. When she finally got that "Aha!" moment about God's double entendre, it was amazing to see her put the final pieces of the puzzle in place. What I hope the writers do is show Joan how to use her particular brand of intelligence to her advantage. These are things that you can't learn in college or read in a book. Yet, they can be so helpful...I wonder if that is ultimately God's intent. To show Joan her own usefulness.



Helen's flashback was not unexpected to me...most mothers that share a deep bond with their children almost have a sixth sense when it comes to their well-being. No magic, just love. I still wanted to strangle Kevin....this ep didn't change that for me. His character has always irked me right down to my socks mostly because I don't think much has changed for him other than his permanent wheelchair dependency. He still treats women the way he did in High School, he still has a giant chip on his shoulder. *bleh* And what is this whole ridiculous business Will Girardi was spouting about how to teach his son how to be a man? Puhleez. Kevin had it right...all he was doing was continuing the cycle. How to teach a son how to hate his father.



Helen still feels the need to ship Joan off to her soul-destroying shrink every time Joan has a crisis. How utterly sad. I kept wondering, "Did Helen even bother to talk it out with Joan to help her through this before sending her back to Dr. Doom?" Heck, I'm an atheist and even I thought this guy was over the top, telling Joan "I took God away from you." I was screaming at the TV "You can't take faith away from someone like you take away their ink pen, you dolt!" I was waiting for Joan to say the same thing but then I don't think she really understands that her seeing God on a regular basis means she does have faith on some level.



Overall impressions? A good episode but could've been better w/o the Kite scene and if they had addressed some other weaker points to make it a stronger ep.


Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Kieli
 


Re: No Future

Postby Gatito Grande » Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:42 pm

Quote:
Unless ... I got it! This season so far has been a result of the lime disease!




Along w/ too much tequila? ;) (GG = Smart Ass :kdevil )



Excellent analyses, Iamyouknow and Kieli: I salute you.



I really hope the show isn't cancelled---not till they get a chance to fix what wasn't broken, and didn't need fixing, last year.



GG Iamyouknow, I propose: you write the teenagers. I'll write the grown-ups and "God." (Maybe Dr.G can write the medical terminology?). :letter And Kieli will edit. Sound like a plan? :hmm Out

Gatito Grande
 


Re: No Future

Postby Kieli » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:17 pm

Heh, you don't want me to edit. Cracking the whip and all that :boot


Time flies by when the Devil drives.
It's not the pace of life that concerns me, it's the sudden stop at the end.

Kieli
 

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