Doctor Who

[Feena]

Finale Spoilers

Spoiler:

Sarah Jane – The Return. Again

SFX was honoured to be granted an interview with Lis Sladen (give the woman a Damehood for services to SF!) for the next SFX Special, out mid March. You’ll have to wait for the full interview, but we know you’re desperate for news on Doctor Who season four. Well, as professional as ever, Lis was tight-lipped about the exact nature of her return in the show’s climactic story, but offered these titbits:

“You must know how many people are in it," she says, referring to the number of special guests from the Doctor’s (recent) past who, it's been confirmed, will be making reappearances alongside Sarah Jane. "So I don't think I'll be at the centre of things. I would think it would be apportioned off, a bit here a bit there, and the major people will be the Doctor and Donna. That is my take on it. We are coming back to reinforce an already established team. So I don’t think I’ll be leading the group, if you know what I mean! I think there will be a distinct kind of sectioning and apportioning off. Because you can only do so much with so many people. “

After Lis films her Doctor Who return in February, she'll be back filming a second season of The Sarah Jane Adventures.

“Yes, we’re doing 24 episodes," she confirms. "I think we start end of March.“

[SithLordWiccan]

You know, they don't even need to confirm Davros as the Big Bad of this season. The announcement of Barrowman, then Piper, and now Lis is all the proof we need. (And BTW, I question the use of a spoiler tag. Not only did I post about it three weeks ago, but it's been more or less obvious since that October 07 rumor, with Barrowman and Piper's return's announced soon after.)

In any event, this just confirms it. the end of new Doctor Who is here.

So long, new series. You were good...some of the time.

[Feena]

Rumours are different to confirmation I would rather tag something than not, and then spoil someone else's enjoyment.

I realise you don't care, I feel like you'll be really disappointed if S4 is great, especially Donna. Nevermind, I think the rest of us here are looking forward to it. March 22nd is the rumoured start date.

[SithLordWiccan]

I realise you don't care, I feel like you'll be really disappointed if S4 is great, especially Donna.

I have no doubt that Series IV will be great. It's just the final three episodes that I've been concerned about ever since that rumor first sprang up. Now that three quarters of that rumor has been proven to be true, can you honestly say, given RTD's track record of screwing that sort of thing up, that it will be anywhere close to good?

[Feena]

I'm ever the optimist.

I've never been someone who thinks RTD can do no wrong (not in this forum, there are some on OG) but I have more faith in him than in another showrunner we could name

[BBOvenGuy]

Doctor Who has been on the air for so long, and has reinvented itself so many times, I think that now the show could do just about anything, and you'd have one group of people groaning loudly about how it was going down the tubes, while at the exact same moment you'd have another group of people saying it was the best ever. Plus everything else in between.

RTD's tenure at the helm of Doctor Who has given us some genuine all-time classics of the series ("Empty Child"/"Doctor Dances", "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood", "Blink"), and really only one thing that I'd consider an embarrassment (the Slitheen). The show won its first two Hugo Awards ever, and has to be considered the favorite for its third in a row this year (something only the original Twilight Zone has ever done before). And now there's an actual Doctor Who "franchise," with Torchwood doing well and The Sarah Jane Adventures all but confirmed for a second season. That had never been done before.

Is RTD the greatest writer/producer ever? The second coming of Rod Serling or Gene Roddenberry or [insert favorite writer/producer here]? Should everyone be tickled pink about everything he does? No, of course not. But on the whole, I'd say he's done more good than bad.

But the bottom line, of course, is that "the end of new Doctor Who" doesn't really depend on RTD at all. It depends on... well, the bottom line. The new Doctor Who will continue for as long as the BBC feels like there's money to be made in continuing it. The show has a long way to fall before that happens.

[Feena]

Agree totally

Sarah Jane Adventures have been confirmed for a second season - 24 episodes! I imagine they will be 12 two-parters.

[SithLordWiccan]

really only one thing that I'd consider an embarrassment (the Slitheen).

And "Love and Monsters"...and the disasterous treatment of the Daleks, Cybermen and the Master...and "The Runaway Bride"...

[BBOvenGuy]

But I liked "Love & Monsters." It was one of my favorite episodes of the season.

Which just goes to prove what I said earlier, about how anything Doctor Who does will have some people saying it's the greatest thing ever at the same time that others are saying the world is doomed.

Meanwhile, re: The Sarah Jane Adventures - it seems there's been some backpedalling since Elisabeth Sladen said the second season had been greenlit. Apparently the "official" go-ahead hasn't been given yet, and I've also heard that the 24 episodes are actually Seasons 2 and 3 filmed back-to-back. So who knows? I imagine we'll hear something definite before too much longer.

[SithLordWiccan]

But I liked "Love & Monsters." It was one of my favorite episodes of the season.

Must...resist...urge...to...slap.

[BBOvenGuy]

There's a fabulous interview with Russell T. Davies in the new Sunday edition of the LA Times. You can read the full story here:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/ne ... 9490.story

Among the highlights:

RTD deliberately tries to avoid "the voices of those most vigilant" in fandom. He thinks American SF shows are too involved with their fans, and says, "They need to take a step back."

The Sarah Jane Adventures is supposedly coming to the SciFi Channel in April.

Regarding the "adult material" in the first season of Torchwood, he says, "I think we all interpreted 'adult' as backstabbing, angst, treachery and betrayal." They plan to have the Torchwood team get along better in Season 2.

(They do mistakenly label John Barrowman as an American, when in fact he's British but was raised in the US.)

Lastly, he says he can't keep running the Doctor Who franchise forever, and is in fact looking forward to going "back to six-parters or one-offs which won't have the publicity, the merchandise, the budget, [or] the profile." But he doesn't say when that will be.

Be sure to check it out!

[Gatito Grande]

RTD's tenure at the helm of Doctor Who has given us some genuine all-time classics of the series ("Empty Child"/"Doctor Dances", "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood", "Blink")

At the very least, I'd add "The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit" from S2, also.

Being that I fell madly in love w/ Freema Agyemann over the summer showings of DW S3 on SciFi*, I'm disappointed that she won't be the full-time companion in S4. Still, I'm glad she's going to be in it somewhat, and even SOONER, thank God, will "Martha Jones" be visiting Torchwood!

[* And I wasn't even able to watch the whole SciFi S3 run, what w/ my mom having the temerity to sicken and die during that time . :-( But, I get to fall in love w/ "My Freema" all over again, during the BBC America repeats which have just started (S3)!]

GG Love your avatar, Feena: that's from "Last of the Time Lords", isn't it? Out

SLW, I find your consistant pessimism curiously/humorously comforting!

[WebWarlock]

Well I just started to work as a playtester on the new Doctor Who RPG so there is no sign that the end is coming yet.

Tim

[SithLordWiccan]

Lastly, he says he can't keep running the Doctor Who franchise forever

Well, that was always a given. Of course, he doesn't mention that he's perfectly willing to drive it into the ground before he does.

SLW, I find your consistant pessimism curiously/humorously comforting!

Well, it may be pessimism, but it has its basis in fact. Look at what the new series has produced so far? Three thirteen episode seasons plus three Christmas specials. And how many of them can rightly be considered classics?

Eight: "Dalek", "Father's Day", "Empty Child/Doctor Dances" "School Reunion", "The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit", "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday", "Human Nature/Family of Blood" and "Blink."

Eight out of forty two isn't exactly a good mark.

And with the confirmation that Sarah Jane is coming back, we now have three quarters of that stupid rumor confirmed, which means we can expect to see Davros in this new series (and don't even bother telling me that Ben Kingsley's agent denied it. Kylie Minogue also denied not doing "Voyage of the Damned.")

And if the new series has proven anything, it's proven that he can't handle elements of the classic series without FUBAR'ing them completely.

[Feena]

Yes, it's LotTL, I think she looks great in it. Only 19 days until her Torchwood appearance.

I'm pretty sure Davros will be in it, but I think it's unlikely (but obviously not impossible) that it will be Ben Kingsley.

SLW - shut your eyes now

Here is a link to the cinema trailer that started today. It's filmed on a mobile so it's not good quality, but it's better than nothing.

Trailer

[WebWarlock]

Eight out of forty two isn't exactly a good mark.

For a TV show? That is fantastic. Nearly 20% of the episodes classic, that is a good mark.

I can't really think of another series that has had that good of an average.

Tim

[Feena]

Eight out of forty two isn't exactly a good mark.

For a TV show? That is fantastic. Nearly 20% of the episodes classic, that is a good mark.

I can't really think of another series that has had that good of an average.

Tim

I agree. Buffy had 144 episodes - how many of those were truly 'classic'? I doubt it was anywhere near 20%


eta


Link to better cinema trailer

[Scarecrow]

Well, it may be pessimism, but it has its basis in fact. Look at what the new series has produced so far? Three thirteen episode seasons plus three Christmas specials. And how many of them can rightly be considered classics?

Eight: "Dalek", "Father's Day", "Empty Child/Doctor Dances" "School Reunion", "The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit", "Army of Ghosts/Doomsday", "Human Nature/Family of Blood" and "Blink."

Eight out of forty two isn't exactly a good mark.
.

No offence, but I don't think "ones you like" is what defiens a classic. I loved Scholl Reunion but wouldn't sya it's a classic by a long shot. On the other hand you missed off "Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways", "The Girl in the Fireplace" and "Utopia" from the list.

It's all down to personal opinion...


- Scarecrow

[SithLordWiccan]

On the other hand you missed off "Bad Wolf/The Parting of the Ways", "The Girl in the Fireplace" and "Utopia" from the list.

And there's a very good reason I did: none of those is anything other than average. "Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways" was the first ruinization of the Dalek's reputation (which sadly continued throughout the rest of their appearances), and the first of many times when a plotline built up by RTD imploded around itself due to the general idiocy of the resolution. (Rose is the "Bad Wolf"? Talk about a Deus ex machina.) "Girl in the Fireplace" is simply an average episode and nowhere near as good as some other bright spots, and as for "Utopia"...well, let's just say that it managed to make "Rose as the Bad Wolf" make some sort of sense.

It's all down to personal opinion...

That's correct. And that's why I stand by what I said before.

Nearly 20% of the episodes classic, that is a good mark.

20% of anything is not a good thing, no matter how you want to dress it up.

And yeah, I've seen that trailer. As before, Tate manages to ruin all the good in it. (Though that's nothing compared to that shot of Rose at the end, which I suspect was put in there for no other reason other than to get fans riled up.)

[WebWarlock]

20% of anything is not a good thing, no matter how you want to dress it up.

But we are not talking about anything, we are talking about TV.

I have been thinking alot about this 20% number and how it applies to other shows.

Star Trek TOS 80 episodes. Name more than 16 that are classic.
Star Trek TNG 178 episodes. Name more than 36 that are classic.
SomeOtherShow 144 episodes. Namre more than 29 that are classic.

You know what. I couldn't do it. TNG, maybe, and most of those are from it's 3rd season on. TOS was a bit easier, but my memory is viewing all of them as "classic" because it is Star Trek.

How about the original Twilight Zone, 156 episodes, name 31 that are classic. Or X-Files, 202 episodes, 41 would-be classics? Maybe.

I think the new Who is doing fine.

Tim

[Scarecrow]

WebWarlock, I think it is fruitless to argue figures that essentially are not in any way accurate, scientifc facts but based on one persons opinion.

They suggest Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways is bad, I suggests its a classic. He justs it ruins the Daleks, I suggest it made them the national success story they are now. The only facts we do have is the millions of veiwers, high AI figures and the fact that it's the highest rated not soap drama in the country.

As for the Deux ex machina... that's defined generally as something that occurs without warnign that ends the sory. The Bad Wolf line had been ste up throughout and would always play a part. The Heart of the TARDIS was set up in Boom Town. Rose's journey, yher meeting with her dad, etc was all set up. It may be a grand finale, almost phoenix-like but it is not a deux ex machina but its understood modern usage as it was clearly set up.


- Scarecrow

[SithLordWiccan]

I suggest it made them the national success story they are now.

No, the story that di that was "The Daleks", way back in 1963. If there was any Dalek story in the new series that made them a national success story, it was "Dalek."

As for the Deux ex machina... that's defined generally as something that occurs without warnign that ends the sory. The Bad Wolf line had been ste up throughout and would always play a part. The Heart of the TARDIS was set up in Boom Town. Rose's journey, yher meeting with her dad, etc was all set up. It may be a grand finale, almost phoenix-like but it is not a deux ex machina but its understood modern usage as it was clearly set up.

I would disagree there. Yes, the Bad Wolf line was set up throughout the series, but the fact that it turned out to be Rose quite frankly turned her more into a Mary Sue than I think RTD intended. (Of course, that would soon be overshadowed by her general treatment in Series Two, but that's not important.)

[Scarecrow]

"Dalek" was massive but it needed the folow-up to really cement them.

RE: Bad Wolf. You did kind of hang onto the weakets point of the argument though. The main thing is that the Heart of the TARDIS was set up instantly negating any definition of deux ex machina which cannot have any forshadowing at all by it's very nature.


At any rate the 'classic' and 'new' series are the SAME series in the end. had the classic series never left us, after fifteen years it'd be veyr much as it is anyway. It was alreayd on its way in the last two seasons.


- Scarecrow

[SithLordWiccan]

"Dalek" was massive but it needed the folow-up to really cement them.

Yeah. Too bad they never got it. (Army of Ghosts/Doomsday comes closest, but loses points by having the Get Out Of Jail Free Card known as the Emergency Temporal Shift, which wouldn't have been so bad had it not been used again to significantly diminished returns in Daleks of Manhattan/Evolution.)

The main thing is that the Heart of the TARDIS was set up instantly negating any definition of deux ex machina which cannot have any forshadowing at all by it's very nature.

Yes. But that's not really my argument. Yes, the Heart of the TARDIS was set up in "Boom Town", but as I already said, the idea to make Rose the Bad Wolf was the ultimate stupid move, as it was the start of what turned out to be a bad turn for her character, as she became less a companion and more of a Mary Sue.

At any rate the 'classic' and 'new' series are the SAME series in the end. had the classic series never left us, after fifteen years it'd be veyr much as it is anyway. It was alreayd on its way in the last two seasons.

I doubt it would have as many overtly romantic aspects to the Doctor's character (not that there's anything wrong with that, of course...)

[Feena]

I've changed my avatar to the picture from the new Doctor Who Magazine

The BBC have finally confirmed SJA (12 episodes). This is a general press release about new children's programming which I thought may be interesting to those of you not in the UK

CBBC Unveils New Dramas


eta

*wonders whether to spoiler-tag the following for the sake of SLW*

*decides to spoiler-tag it because...oh...it's a spoiler

Spoiler:

According to two people with seperate sources on OG, the Finale may not have Ben Kingsley in it but may well be like Gandhi!!

Skaro with lots and lots and lots of Daleks!

[Feena]

Davros seems to be a definite but a new name has been rumoured... Julian Bleach

It's come from a friend of the costume maker, may or may not be true, of course


eta

Picture of him with Patrick Stewart in The Tempest




eta again

Review of JB as Ariel

P.S. Contains spoilers for The Tempest

eta again

Julian Bleach is in Episode 10 of Torchwood so we'll see him in action then. I'm sure we'll know by then if it is him playing Davros.


eta again again

Julian Bleach in Shockheaded Peter

[Feena]

decides to start new post

Apparently it was confirmed at the Gallifrey One Convention last weekend that the SciFi start date is April 13th weekend!!

[Feena]

No definite start date yet. Rumours range from March 22nd to April 12th. DWM is out Wednesday so we might find out then. I imagine you'll be getting VotD on that April weekend.

This was posted on OG:

This comment is from author Mark Michalowski in our local press , he has seen the first three episodes as he is to write a second book- Shining Darkness .

Michalowski has a lot of praise for comedian Catherine Tate, the Doctor’s new companion Donna Noble who features in Shining Darkness: ‘She’s brilliant - I think she’ll surprise a lot of people who think she just does funny voices. She’s a much more versatile actress than people often give her credit for - the end of the second episode, The Fires of Pompeii, really gives her something to get her teeth into!’

Thats all - there are no more comments and I have no more info - but high praise indeed for CT. Now looking forward to this even more !!

I'm looking forward to it as well! I've just re-watched TRB (again!) and I think she'll be fab

[Feena]

Very interesting set photos surfaced today.

tomlou posted on OG

Spoiler:

Other pictures on the beach show David Tennant and Catherine Tate as well. Those pics were not in character so it's more difficult to tell if there is interaction between the three of them.

Interestingly, there are shots of the Doctor wearing both his brown and his blue suits!

eta

Spoiler:

Another has been posted, taken from far away with a long lens but definitely looks like Jackie, Pete and Micky are there too!!

[Feena]

Seen on the Finale set....

Spoiler:

Judooon!!

*realises she's been talking to herself for the last month*