All My Children

[molsongrrrl]

i read kasey's post and i guess i'd like to try to bring the discussion back to those points. does the kitten board - meaning its mods and members - see itself as having a responsibility to be a "watchdog" for gay portrayals on tv and in movies? i mean the lesbian cliche faq was established as a response to tara's death on buffy - but does the faq end there?



yes, all my children is only a soap - but the reality is buffy was only a cult tv show. amc reaches 2.7 - 3 million viewers every single day. many more viewers than buffy and i might add a much more diverse audience than buffy. plus those numbers don't include the viewers who watch amc on soapnet every single evening.



and what are these viewers seeing? as mitorch pointed out in her post - they are seeing the lesbian cliche played out - and yet there has hardly been a word about this here -- or even the suggestion that perhaps abc and amc need to hear from the kitten about the cliche and its affects.



i realize many kitten members don't even watch amc. but having been a part of this community for a long time - i thought the point of the board went beyond buffy.



i have written amc and abc. i have expressed my feelings about this story through other boards ... but i just figured i'd throw these questions out there since kasey asked and no one has responded to her post.

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of Truth and Love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it, always.

Edited by: molsongrrrl  at: 10/6/03 7:23 am

[xita]

What I see in this thread since this whole thing began is mostly disappointment, there are very few people who have faith or hope that it can be turned around, but that's certainly the minority. I have written my letters. I continue to express my distate of the whole thing. I don't know what else we can do. I encourage people to post any actions they may want us to participate in. Should we launch a campaign? Honestly, I am much too busy right now (working, getting my masters, running the board, and chatting ) to take on such a thing. And I am too much of a control freak to allow someone else to do it with the kitten name.



Still, it's very important and that's why this thread is here and I continue to voice my opinion. No one should just take the crumbs that are offered by AMC. And someone needs to tell them they didn't handle this well. They could have salvaged this but they haven't. They ruined the lesbian characters. Anyway someone should speak since our watchdog organizations are not.



On a personal note, I tried along with a few others to form an organization that would be the watchdog that GLAAD was not being. We wanted to monitor the lesbian portrayals on tv. We could not get it together, I blame myself as much as anyone. The time wasn't right maybe, i know at the time the whole Tara issue stung too much. I am still interested in doing it, though obviously I have other things on my mind. If anyone is really interested in taking charge, please email me. We have a website, that's sitting there just doing nothing, but what it needs is leadership.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[gspiggott]

Don't underestimate the cynicism of ABC and Megan McTavish with this storyline. Whenever they were criticized early on they trotted out the BAM'ers who claimed that the show was not homophobic in the way the rape was depicted and expressed their support. ABC kept it up until the criticism died down, and in the meantime Liz Hendrickson gets tons of airtime and the soap mags keep dropping hints about a possible triangle. Unfortunately the ratings went down with this plot, a point that seems lost on ABC.

I've written ABC but if you want to get their attention there's a web site called Target GH that is writing the advertising sponors for ABC soaps because they hate the content of the shows so much.

Don't waste your time writing Brian Frons, he's the one that thought the best way to show that everyone accepts Bianca's sexual preference is by making her a rape victim.Yes, he actually said that.

Edited by: gspiggott at: 10/6/03 1:44 pm

[Kendahl897]

I thought today's episode was great. I guess I'm in the minority that Xita mentioned above. But I'm willing to see the storyline through. It was obvious today that when Bianca was with Lena today, she was starting to feel all of the old feelings again, including desire. I know they hit another roadblock tomorrow, but that's what soaps do. Spoiler sources are saying reunion, love scene, possible marriage and baby. The first three by Christmas. I'm willing to see it out through then. If it doesn't happen, then I'll stop watching. But for me, the fat lady hasn't sung yet. Sorry.

In the meantime, please keep writing your letters. Especially the ones to Olga.



This is from Sage's new column that came out today.He's got a very good track record. Also. he and Soapboy are saying that the reunion will occur in November and Bianca will utter those three magic word to Lena.." I Love You" Kendall and Maggie will play important roles in facilitating the reunion..

SAGE:

Although a lot of people have been concerned that ABC is backing down from pursuing an actual gay relationship by breaking up Lena and Bianca, nothing could actually be further from the truth. Although ABC definitely zigged where they should have zagged by using Bianca's rape and subsequent pregnancy to alienate Lena from Bianca's life, their intent was good, sort of. Noting that fans were missing the interaction between Maggie and Bianca, they decided to remove Lena for a while and allow Bianca and Maggie to re-bond throughout the current crisis, then re-introduce the romance with Lena at a later date. It appears that what is going to happen is that Maggie will be the one who is instrumental in reuniting the two with her friendship with Bianca firmly intact. Kendall will also be a factor in the reunion and there has been talk of having Lena and Bianca carry the baby to term. Likewise, there has been the inevitable talk of taking the easy way out (as far as storytelling) on the pregnancy by having Bianca lose the baby after deciding to keep it. Regardless, I can guarantee you she isn't going to give birth abroad. (What really irks me about this is I wrote it yesterday and wondered if I should post AMC and OLTL alone, then tack on GH later and opted to post this column as a whole today. Now, Maggie has already played Miss Match for Bianca and Lena, so this whole paragraph falls into the "Well, DUH!" category. OH well. As an amazing philosopher that I once read about said, "Sometimes you're the chicken and sometimes, you're the cockroach.")



Okay, Here's the dish: Novemeber is the month for the reunion. It's sweeps month after all and they want the ratings..It will definitely have another kiss and there is talk that a love scene is in the works....

Edited by: Kendahl897 at: 10/9/03 8:29 am

[molsongrrrl]

great news about the reunion - and possible kiss and love scene -- i am still watching, however i will believe all of this when i see it! i don't have a lot of faith in amc or mctrash at this point, but at least bianca and lena are communicating a little bit -- its a step (though very small) in the right direction ...

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of Truth and Love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it, always.

[emma peel]

Kendahl, I admire your tenacity. I'm able to watch the story occasionally, but am really afraid to become too involved for fear of getting ripped off for the third time, the first-Xena, the second being Willow and Tara.

I really do appreciate Eden and Olga's performances and I hope they have long careers post AMC.

I'm wondering how much effect the pro Bianca/Lena shippers are having regarding the writers, producers, and network? What I mean is, is AMC getting lots of pro B/L letters, e-mails, faxes,phone calls, etc., and is that having a positive effect? Are their feet being held to the fire?

Sorry for the long post, but inquiring minds want to know.

Janice

[gspiggott]

Sage does have a much better record than Soapboy. But his column reads like an ABC statement printed in SOW right after this rape storyline started almost word for word. I have no doubt that's what the network people want fans to believe, big reunion and all the rest of it. The show hasn't pulled the ratings they thought it would, or gotten the kind of publicity ABC hoped for. They're trying to get people interested and watching for November sweeps.

[Kendahl897]

Well, we will know by the end of November.. As for Sage and Sapboy, they do what they can to try and answer our questions..They merely pass on what they know. My feeling is that they will do whatever will get them the most in ratings..

[scifiacid]

Well I’m just bored to tears lately with AMC. Really, even the 2 seconds Olga was on barely caught my attention. And, I’m nearly to the point of not even caring if Lena and Bianca get back together. I could probably hold out for a while if the rest of the stories weren’t such shite. There really isn’t any other storyline (as if there is any beyond Who Killed Michael?) that I find interesting at all. My favorites, Kendall, Greenlee, Boyd… nada making me happy. And why is Ryan on more then Erica? Huh? I dislike him with a passion. How Kendall could really love that guy is beyond me. Whatever, just another reason not to watch.

[xita]

I am not liking ryan at all either. The show is terrible right now. And we're headed for more time without olga.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Kendahl897]

I'm willing to give it to the end of November, b/c all of the spoiler sources are saying reunion, mid November..However, if they are not together by then , I'll quit watching, and take my Neilsen household elsewhere, just like I did with Buffy. Makes me feel proud to know that I was a big part of that 15% drop in viewers.

[molsongrrrl]

i am willing to stick around through november too because of the spoilers -- but if things don't improve by that time i will be giving up my amc habit.

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of Truth and Love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it, always.

[winnithepeg]

i like ryan. and i don't like lena. sorry. i think the actress does a good job making the whole thing relatively believable, but i'm hankering for some maggie/binkie girl on girl. not happy about the baby thing. soap character has baby=character becomes crazy-boring.

what if the hokey pokey is what it's all about?

[theatremouse]

i think it's promising that soap opera digest (or one of those, i donno which) did a poll and Binks and Lena were voted the hottest couple in daytime.



meanwhile, i donno, maybe i'm a schlubb, but today, when maggie said "did it ever occur to you that i want to be with you" my heart went all skippy.

the maggie binks pairing would be ideal, i think. not from the sappy viewer perspective, but as a dramaturg (which is what i do) the acting, the chemistry and the natural progression onscreen of those two characters is the 'quality' thing to do, as opposed to the stereotypical cheap soap trick, which, although the lena storyline ended being sweet, twas kinda predictable no-progress here soap storyline. its also why its offense how those two immediately got shredded to bits.

its a gay cliche and a soap cliche.

the reason its so unlikely, (and so clever) to pair maggie and bianca is because it would actually be good writing.

thats why i dont expect it, and thats why i would respect it if it were to happen.

plus, i am also the smushy, mushy sappy dyke viewer.

Tara: Five what by five what?

Willow: See? That's the thing: no one knows..

[xita]

I could never get behind the baggie pairing because it isn't romantic to me. If maggie had really loved bianca, she would not have been able to let her go the first time. She had her chance, it all comes off weird to me. Not genuine, this isn't good writing, it's twisting characters to make the dreams of a certain minority come true

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[gspiggott]

When Bianca was a strong smart independent character back in the pre McTavish days Maggie wasn't interested in her. Now that she's a pathetic ,dumbed down ,passive beyond belief victim ,Maggie can't get enough of her . Good writing for a not so easily squicked out masochist maybe, but for an audience looking for something more probably not.

[Kendahl897]

Sage posted this today:



"I, for one, hope Binky really does name her baby Myrtle.



Speaking of Bianca, I'm being besieged with letters from angry to frustrated Lianca fans who are demanding to know WHEN their favorite couple will get together and WHY there are so many BAM (Bianca and Maggie) wet dreams playing out on the screen in the meantime. First off, I hope all of you know that I have no more pull with the shows than YOU do, so I respectfully request that people stop asking me to "make it happen."Secondly, as I've been saying, from everything I hear, there is going to be a Lena and Bianca reunion in the future, instrumented by Maggie. That's really, really, really all I know and the only thing I can say beyond that is "It will happen when it happens." I do know that there are supposedly no plans to indicate that Maggie is gay and their friendship will remain just that. When the studio is ready, it will happen, but evidently, they want a few other things to play out first. That's not something I can change and I definitely cannot report on news that I do not have."

[theatremouse]

i guess we've got to agree to disagree. i have to admit i didnt watch the show yet when maggie first showed up in town.

also, the whole "if she was gonna she wouldve in the first place" isnt good reasoning to me. people are fickle. partially it may be because i had a nearly identical experience....

i donno.

if anything BAM's better writing than previous AMC romantic attachments cuz the two actresses have chemistry. (henry was cardboard and asexual, aside from being a cruddy actor).

Tara: Five what by five what?

Willow: See? That's the thing: no one knows..

[scifiacid]

Well, chemistry is very subjective. To this day some people never believed Willow and Tara because they didn’t think Alyson and Amber had any chemistry. I see no chemistry between Eden and Liz. Especially now, Eden doesn’t play it the way she did a year or more ago. I think Liz is desperate for a storyline, being attached to the hip of Bianca right now is getting her face time but not giving her a storyline. Once Bianca is put on the backburner Maggie will have nothing to do. They tried to give Liz her own storyline; the great chem.-o fiasco and she couldn’t pull it off. Liz is not a strong enough actress to have her own storyline. I’m sick of everyone blaming that fiasco just on Henry. That was Liz’s big chance as well and she couldn’t pull it off. She’ll be stuck to Eden for the run of being on AMC. To me, that’s not a good thing.



I always saw Maggie as stinging Bianca along when it came to their friendship/non-existent relationship because she got something from Bianca she never had, love. Maggie knew exactly how Bianca felt about her and was willing to simply leave it as is as long as Bianca never forced the issue. I believe that we would never have gotten anything more between them then what there was.



I dislike the idea because, frankly, I don’t think Maggie’s been that great of a friend to Bianca through all of this. I don’t care how much Bianca would have protested about going to the police or a doctor, telling anyone, Maggie is suppose to be pre-med or whatever, she would know the ramifications of Bianca not seeing at least a doctor. She should have been more forceful instead of facilitation Bianca’s confused thinking. Maggie is a wet noodle. As a character, like most of the characters these days on AMC, she pretty much sucks. Everyone was calling Lena a stalker for what, wanting to see the women she loves after a tragedy and maybe seeing her 2 times. Maggie has pretty much instilled herself into Bianca’s life without any real permission from Bianca. Maggie is just ‘I’m not leaving you, live with it.’ And because she’s her ‘best friend’ that behavior is fine? Yet Lena, can’t even say hello to Bianca without getting trashed around by Maggie? WTF? Anyway…



At this point I really am not starting to care. There are very few people who want to see Maggie and Bianca together outside of the BAM crowd. The general viewing public of this show doesn’t like Maggie. Bianca use to be the favorite darling child, she’s not anymore. Lena, and Olga are a hot property right now. Bianca and Lena as a couple wins poll after poll. Polls that have them up against other very popular AMC couples as well as couples from other soaps. People want Bianca/Lena, the general viewing public like Bianca/Lena and would except them as a couple, something, most people already know, that they wouldn’t do with Bianca and Maggie. The BAMrs may get their reward for backing the rape storyline, but it will turn off droves of viewers.



Personally, I’m back to my ‘taping-reading the recaps to see if something good happens-if it doesn’t rewind tape without watching’ viewing habits. If they hook Bianca and Maggie up, I’ll simple stop taping and reading recaps. If they do that, they better let Olga go. She’s much too good an actress.

Edited by: scifiacid at: 10/15/03 11:17 am

[Kendahl897]

I personally have no doubt that Lena and Bianca wil reunite. Soapboy and Sage pretty much say November. I hope that is true, because I think the majority of Lianca fans are fed up enough to switch the channel if they aren't . It's played out past the oint of ridiculousness.

As for Maggie, I'm really not worried about that. I just find it highly irritating. They have been on the screen for months and it hasn't exactly tore up the ratings, meanwhile, the more they show Maggie, the more people you have clamoring for Lianca, including, if you look at the SOW contest, alot of straight people too. Even among all my straight friends who watch the show, it's Lianca everyone wants to see.

[scifiacid]

Yah know, at this point I’m not even sure I care if Bianca and Lena reunite. That’s how bad things are. Really, Bianca, as a character is just going downhill fast. At lot of posts I’ve seen today are commenting on that fact that 16-year old coming out Bianca was much more mature then the character is now. That’s sad. Lena is only just starting to come back to life after being a shadow for the last few months… I don’t know. It’s not like they can restart the relationship, in my eyes, the way they started it. Bianca’s going to be pregnant and soon have a baby; the entire dynamic is totally different. Lena and Bianca will not have that same smoldering-ness about them that just awed everyone. The sad part, in my eyes, is that L/B have become more like M/B and that’s just fucked up. Wrong on so many levels. Hmm… you’re eternal optimism is wonderful kendahl. I’m trying to find some myself but am failing miserably I’m afraid.

[scifiacid]

So here goes all my f'in, what little there was, optimism.



From Hemmerhummer1 at Datalounge



Now for some AMC dish. Several weeks ago I mentioned that the Cambias heir would figure prominently in who controls Cambias Industries and more. As we will see this week, that story is about to commence and from what I hear there's a new wrinkle in the fabric.



Originally, Binky and Lena would be a dynamic duo both in and out of the corporate boardroom. They would have had control of the Cambias fortune on behalf of the heir apparent, Tyler Kane Montgomery.



Now that certain straight male executives have experienced the chemistry of Binky and Maggie on screen, their fantasies may be dictating how the Binky/Lena saga will turn out. A Binky/Lena pairing may not be as aesthetically pleasing to the eyes of straight men as a BAMM pairing. How's that for a kick in the teeth for fans?



That is just beyond disturbing. I'm off to throw up!

Edited by: scifiacid at: 10/15/03 2:39 pm

[theatremouse]

ive never been a fan of the welsh actress does faux polish accent schtick.

i suppose impressive that she comes close, but there's that ever elusive cigar.....

Tara: Five what by five what?

Willow: See? That's the thing: no one knows..

[emma peel]

scifiacid, for what it's worth, DataLounge is supposed to be a gossip column. I lurk and laugh a bit at the mostly gayboy gossip stuff. I hope that post is totally waaaayyyyy off.

I did get pretty sick today watching Bianca and all her "Maggie,Maggie,Maggie,Maggie,Maggie" crap.

Janice

[scifiacid]

Quote:

---

ive never been a fan of the welsh actress does faux polish accent schtick.

---

Huh? If you are referring to Olga she is originally from Poland therefore her accent is not faux. She left when she was 11 and was raised in England therefore she has an English accent. And I’ve heard her do both Russian and French as well as Polish and her current English accent and each one is distinctive from the other.



And again, huh?

Quote:

---

scifiacid, for what it's worth, DataLounge is supposed to be a gossip column.

---

Yeah, okay. Still not bringing out any optimism on my part though.

Edited by: scifiacid at: 10/15/03 4:18 pm

[emma peel]

scifiacid wrote:

"Yeah, okay. Still not bringing out any optimism on my part though."

I understand completely. I guess I was trying to convince myself that maybe it's a false rumor.....

I think there's prolbably not much hope in the Lianca relationship because the actresses used to have such chemistry, and we wanted it to happen.

They are an incredibly talented duo, but the writers probably went to the "Joss Whedon School of Writing," aka "Knowing How to F**k Everything Up in Five Seconds for No Purpose Whatsover."

Bleh.

Janice

[theatremouse]

yeah, i know shes originally from poland, her accent still sounds uberfake.

i listen to half my family, from poland, speaking english, all the time, and olga dont sound so much like them.

then again, maybe shes a victim of being too well trained....consult henry higgins.

Tara: Five what by five what?

Willow: See? That's the thing: no one knows..

[emma peel]

theatremouse, maybe Polish accents are like the various accents in the United States, very diverse.

I lived in New Orleans for many years and there were a variety of accents there, "da nint wahd" (the ninth ward), New York or Brooklyn sound, Cajun French, etc.

I laughed my ass off the first time I realized a "kern poise" was a "coin purse".. then of course there's "terlet" for "toilet" in some places.

I'm not making fun of anyone who speaks like that, it's just that New Orleans is such a melting pot...

I guess my point is that maybe there's more than one type of accent for Polish people speaking English.

End of my ramble.

Janice

[scifiacid]

Well, we’ll leave it as perceptions then because I speak to my Polish step-mother all the time, and she does sound like Olga. So, there ya go.



Oh, adding that my step-mother actually teaches English as well and knows more about the English “language” then anyone I know. So there ya go, again.



I hear ya Janice. I've decided just to put on blinders.

Edited by: scifiacid at: 10/15/03 5:41 pm

[theatremouse]

emma, point well taken.

Tara: Five what by five what?

Willow: See? That's the thing: no one knows..