What is the Matrix?

[darkmagicwillow]

I saw The Matrix Reloaded last night and was impressed. They've managed to decontruct their own mythology of the Matrix and the prophecy about the One in a wonderful manner, yet they've kept most of the elements that made me love the original movie. However, this is definitely the middle movie of a trilogy like The Two Towers. It raises many questions but offers few answers.



I loved Agent Smith's return, especially as I've always thought an AI should do that. Who needs allies when you can copy yourself? As with the Merovingian, I'm not quite sure whose side he belongs to. He viralizes Agents and he's longer connected to their source so he might be a third side all of his own.



Who is the Merovingian anyway? Is he an earlier version of Neo as some of the dialog implies or is he something else? And if he's a Merovingian, why is he so modern French? Does this mean Neo is a Carolingian? As always, I love the character names, including his and that of his wife Persephone. And what are the dematerializing gorgon twins?



Like I said, lots of questions. I'd love to hear your speculations.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 5/19/03 10:16:18 am

[Culzean]

Ohhh...I was hoping to find a Matrix thread! If you haven't seen the movie DO NOT read this.



There seem to be four fronts now to this battle:



1) Free humans

2) The Architect / Matrix

3) Agent Smith/s ("Me, me me!" I LOVED that line!) who seems to be a free agent at the moment.

4) Merovingian - his twins were attacking the regular agents in that freeway scene, so they don't seem to be on the same side. Interesting thought that he could be an earlier incarnation of The One.



Then we have the Oracle. The Architect presented her as being part of the big plan for the Matrix, but maybe she's another element that's not quite under Matrix control?



What I didn't get was, why do they want to keep destroying and rebuilding Zion? I don't see how the existence of Zion serves the Matrix.



Speaking of Zion, I thought it was kind of interesting to combine a biblical name with all that wild, pagan dancing.



I'm just glad Trinity made it. When Persephone told Trinity that she envied N

[sprhrgrl]

The thing that got me about the movie is that a lot of it was so very obviously CGI. Like the fight scene after seeing the Oracle - not only was it obvious in the first place, but in addition to that they kept flashing to Smith's face, which underlined how different a real actor looks from a computer generates one.



I also thought it was interesting how Smith almost was protecting Neo from the agents. . .



It's funny that this thread came up here, because the first ezboard I participated in was Zion Resistance Online. . .

sprhrgrl.com

she's my everythin

racism=sexism=homophobia

The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off. – Gloria Steinem

[Shinnen]

I've watched, to-date, Matrix Reloaded twice, both time FOC and it's a pretty good show. But it has a few weak points that could easily be fixed during postproduction.



Little bit of spoilery stuff (i think) in case those of you who haven't watched it don't wanna know stuff



My favourite characters in this particular sequel was the Merovingian and his wife, their idea of playing games and *smirk* the lipstick thing. heh heh. Persephone was an absolute charm. The Merovingian being a extremely powerful program that survived the previous 5 anomalies excluding Neo, that's an interesting factor in the story. So my guess.. more Merovingian and Persephone in the final movie. "Merovingian" was one of the kings of the Frankish dynasty (Gaul or France). No wonder he liked things French including cursing. Which jolted something from my memory of what Persephone's beauty reminded me of... an Egyptian beauty (Queen maybe). Gorgeous.



But i think that some scenes from the movie were a tad too long. If they shortened some of those scenes, they could fill in the more crucial scenes that seemed too sudden and too short, like what happened to the crew of Captain Soren's ship. From what I know, more footage and story of Niobe's crew can be accessed through the game, "Enter the Matrix" ,original footage that ties into the movie ala missing scenes.



I also liked how the story put out a fact that everything was controlled by a program. The Oricle is a program. The birds are a program. Even the Unplugged could very well be a program. Another thing about this movie... sometimes... too ... much... talk...



But overall... the effects were awesome... compositing is good except the part where it's "me me me" Smith vs Neo after the Oracle left. That one was noticeable that most parts of the scene were CG characters. But hey... ALL the fight scenes looked exactly like Wong Fei Hung or Fong Sai Yuk movies cos... hey... same choreographer



Smith having able to access the realworld via taking over the mind and soul of an unplugged... that was cool.



Another really cool part in the movie were the docking station crew. They were all plugged into this cool environment surrounded by computers of the ultra cool sort. Wire-frame never looked better.



Looking forward to November's release of Matrix Revolution.

CheerZ

Shinnen



Who cares how tall your lover is ... height doesn't matter in bed



For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it

Edited by: Shinnen at: 5/29/03 4:56:32 pm

[darkmagicwillow]

Culzean, I'm not sure why the AIs promote the existence of Zion, though it is a way to ensure that they know exactly where humans who escape the Matrix will go so they can be monitored. There's also the idea that Zion's world is a meta-Matrix, which I've thought about due to some of the impossible actions there like Neo EMPing the machines towards the end.



Shinnen, the Merovingians have myth as well as history as their bloodline is that of the holy grail, i.e. they are descendents of Jesus and Mary Magdelene after they left Judea for the south of France. This is one of the reasons I think he's human, not an AI.



There was a lot of philosophical talk in this movie which didn't seem to flow as well as it did in the first one, but the action scenes, especially the car chase, are great and I think all the philosophy will pay off in November.





ETA: I watched the first movie again and had some more thoughts. They use a lot of Christian imagery, such as the trinity of Morpheus, Trinity, and Neo and the Merovingian's mythical ties, and we don't know who Neo's parents are though we do know that his is a virgin birth. As the Architect was expecting him, could Neo be partially divine, i.e. part computer/AI. If he was created from machine and human, that would explain the abilities he has within the Matrix and might also give him the ability to command the machines out of it. What do you think?

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 5/29/03 8:18:04 am

[justin]

DMW, you asked what the two twins are. Well when Neo was talking to the Oracle she said that programs that weren't doing what they were supposed to appeared as things like werewolves, ghosts and vampires.



Just before Persephone killed one of the two programs guarding the keymaker, she mentioned needing silver bullets, so they're probably werewolves.



Which makes me think that the twins were vampires.



What I don't understand is why the agents were trying to kill the keymaker since he's needed for the one to enter the core and continue the cycle.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[darkmagicwillow]

I can see them as rogue AIs/supernatural entities of some sort, but why vampires, Justin? Their hair makes me think of the Gorgons from Greek myth, but I can't see much else that would help identify them.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[Puff]

I thought the twins were ghosts. The albino part making them white or ghostlike as well as fact that they could become transparent if threats were aimed at them as well, but that could only be me.



I saw the movie on Tuesday night and enjoyed parts of it a lot. The scene on the highway was my favorite. I thought that many of the fight scenes went on way to long though and kind of lost the tension in the story.



Looking forward to the third part of the story though.

---

Cheese. It's milk that you chew.

[Shinnen]

DMW:- interesting conception about Neo. Yeah... he could be part AI for all we know. Remember the council member saying that Neo was still human after all? I think even the Architect knew Neo was different from his predecessors and apparently is more powerful that his predecessors. I would agree that maybe Neo was indeed a human/AI hybrid.



I thought that the Twins could be leaning more towards a hybrid of legendary monsters (gorgons as mentioned by DMW) and ghosts and the two guards guarding the keymaker ARE indeed werwolves saved by merovingian from the previous versions of the Matrix. Glitch programs.



I think the Agents may have also gone rogue. They still run from the source but maybe they thought that they didn't want to be restarted again. *shrug*

CheerZ

Shinnen



Who cares how tall your lover is ... height doesn't matter in bed



For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it

[justin]

Well I thought about vampires because they were one of the creatures mentioned by the Oracle and their ability to dematerialise seemed to fit that.



Of course we don't see them drinking blood and, it just occurred to me, they don't seem to be bothered by sunlight so maybe it wasn't such a good theory after all.

I understand, you should be with the person you l-love


I am

[darkmagicwillow]

One of the cool aspects of this movie was that Trinity used real computer security tools like nmap to do their hacking. Follow the link for screen shots and a short description of what Trinity was actually doing. There are so many movies like Hackers or Jurassic Park that use all this unrealistic eye candy, but Matrix Reloaded made the effort to do it right.



Shinnen, I like your idea about the Twins, but I don't think the Agents are rogues. I think the Architect set them up to oppose Neo so that the humans think that they're going to free themselves from the matrix forever and that the machines are opposing them. It's also possible that the Agents know and that's why so few of them are actively opposing Neo at one time compared to the numbers of Agent Smith clones that he brought to bear.



Puff, the fight scene with Neo and the Merovingian's gang seemed to go on much too long. We already saw Neo take on hundreds of Agent Smiths; how long could such a small number of people really last against him?

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[Anne860]

My brother recently acquired a copy of the game Enter The Matrix for his playstation, and has been playing it pretty much non-stop for the past three days. In the game, you get to play one of two characters from the movie: Ghost and Niobe (Jada Pinkett Smith), who perform various missions that tie in rather neatly to the movie. However, the missions will differ depending on the character you're playing.



What's really cool, though, are the live action scenes that tie the narrative together. These scenes--as well as the rest of the game--were written and directed by the Wachowski brothers and use the actors and sets from the Matrix Reloaded. (Apparently they were made during the filming of the two sequels.) They're all pretty cool, but the one that had me grinning takes place in the Chateau between Niobe and Persephone.



Niobe needs to know where her crewman, Ghost, is being held prisoner. Persephone agrees to give the information to her, but only in exchange for a kiss. After threatening to blow her kneecaps off instead, Niobe finally agrees and kisses her. Persephone isn't satisfied (of course), but Niobe tries again and gets it right. Basically, it was a rehash of the scene between Neo and Persephone in the movie, but I liked it even so.



For the record, there were also several scenes between Niobe and her lover Jason Soren later on in the game, but my brother and I both agreed that the she didn't have quite as much chemistry with that guy. Let's just say that Monica Belluci and Jada Pinkett Smith are two very talented actresses.



P.S. My brother and I also made up a new slogan for the game's ads: "The Matrix: Enter it for the kick-ass fights, but stay for the girl-on-girl action!"

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." -- Mark Twain

Edited by: Anne860 at: 5/31/03 12:48:44 am

[Shinnen]

Oh I've also got the Enter the Matrix game. Haven't played it though, my PS2 is currently hidden because my parents are in town. Anyway... just wanted to mention one thing, Captain Niobe's lover isn't Jason Soren, it's Jason Lock. And YAY to the girl-on-girl action in the game.

CheerZ

Shinnen



Who cares how tall your lover is ... height doesn't matter in bed



For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it

[tkheaven]

Hey all...got to see it and I loved it! Granted, alot more action than thought provoking but HEY, is ok...it kicked ass! Pretty cool CGI's...I have the game for PS2 but haven't had the chance to play it yet, but now that girl-on-girl action was mentioned...hwwell...I'll be glued to it later on. *chuckle*

The Merovingian..HA! Loved that guy...I loved the whole French language being so beautiful, expecially when you curse, "It's like wiping your ass with silk." LMAO

I'm waiting for Animatrix to come out on DVD (June 3rd)...in the meantime, I can most certainly deal with the bootleg copy..I figured today's avitar is most fitting for the thread. NOTE: Must watch Flight of the Osiris in Animatrix...total CGI (great work on that one) and the first sequence is a training scene with the crew's captain and miss butt-tastic over here...heh

Tk's new and improved "GrrArgg"...

---

"I've become really protective of her. I want to make sure if Tara comes back, it's for good reason." -Amber Benson
Tara ate her, devoured her from beneath. -The Edge of Silence giving new meaning to this season's catch phrase.
"Don't get me wrong. I kinda like being the quirky nympho chick." - Michelle in 'American Pie 3'

[Blue Pariah]

Quote:

---

Shinnen, the Merovingians have myth as well as history as their bloodline is that of the holy grail, i.e. they are descendents of Jesus and Mary Magdelene after they left Judea for the south of France.

---

An interesting little factoid. In conspiracy theory, there was an organization dedicated to protecting the Merovingian line and eventually restoring it to the throne of France. Its name? The Prieure de Sion. Translation: the "Priory of Zion".



An interesting coincidence, no?

I take to shade and I play in the shadows
I watch my back and I play it cool
"Blue Pariah" by BRJ

[darkmagicwillow]

The Priory of Zion...that makes sense.



Both the game and the animated series sound interesting...I'll probably get whatever super DVD set they make for the whole trilogy and watch animatrix then. I'll have to get a friend with a game console to show me the game though. I liked Persephone, so I'd like to see more of her.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 6/23/03 7:34 pm

[Shinnen]

hehehehe... this post is a little OT but ... other than me... does anyone else think being plugged into the matrix seems like hahahahha being straight??? If a person gets unplugged they are gay .



Mods feel free to delete this

CheerZ

Shinnen



Who cares how tall your lover is ... height doesn't matter in bed



For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it

[tkheaven]

Whenever you end up getting it, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. We must've watched Flight of the Osiris a dozen times. They also sell a DVD/Soundtrack pkg. Don't think it on sale by itself, though. The soundtrack ROCKS to Animatrix. Much better than Reloaded soundtrack.

Track Listing for Animatrix - The Album:

1. Peace Orchestra "Who Am I?" (Animatrix Edit)

2. Free*Land "Big Wednesday"

3. Layo & Bushwacka! "Blind Tiger"

4. Supreme Beings of Leisure "Under the Gun"

5. Meat Beat Manifesto "Martenot Waves"

6. Photek "Ren 2"

7. Death In Vegas "Hands Around My Throat"

8. Junkie XL "Beauty Never Fades" (Animatrix Edit)

9. Overseer "Supermoves" (Animatrix Remix)

10. Juno Reactor "Conga Fury" (Animatrix Mix)

11. Junkie XL/Don Davis "Red Pill, Blue Pill"

(featuring dialogue from The Matrix)

12. Tech Itch/Don Davis "The Real"

(featuring dialogue from The Matrix Reloaded)



Conga Fury is my fav.The link is a zip to the song.. It's about 3506K...err..don't know how long that would be for some of you. If anyone has any trouble..perhaps knows how to make a shorter sample..feel free (I'm at work so I can't mess with the file right now.)

Tk's new and improved "GrrArgg"...

---

Tara ate her, devoured her from beneath. -The Edge of Silence giving new meaning to season seven's catch phrase.
"You are the sexiest and goofiest kitten I've met." - Anonymous kitten at MR con

Edited by: tkheaven  at: 6/26/03 7:05 am

[Strapping Lass]

I agree tk



The soundtrack to the Animatrix is fantastic I like the Supermoves track by the Overseer.



I'd been trying to find out what the peice of music was on both the trailer for the Animatrix and the Superbowl Matrix Reloaded trailer and it was that!



I kinda wish they had used it in the film for the bit when Neo fights all the Smith's.



Although I did love to see Neo fighting to Furious Angels by Rob Dugon because I've loved that track for years!



I'm crazy about all the Matrix stuff.



Strapping Lass

[MaClayMagic]

Colour me super excited here! I have tomorrow off work because I am off to the first showing of "The Matrix Revolutions"! I can't wait, I am a fanatic on these films and am so looking forward to seeing how this trilogy will conclude. It's gonna be great! After all, the Wachowski Bros know how to tell a story properly (in Bound their ladies get to ride off into the sunset together, these men are brilliant!! ) So, maybe after tomorrow, I will know whether the matrix is a matrix inside a matrix......! Or maybe not! I don't care, I just want to see more of the story with Trinity and Neo, the gorgeous Niobi and Agent Smith!

"The world feels so much better when you find you don't fit

There's a ladder in my tights and who gives a **** if woops you ain't shiney and perfect" - Amy Studt

[Boomstick79]

OK I have just watched Revolutions. Don't get me wrong, I love the Matrix films, but can someone please explain the end to me? Cop-out ending or what?

Visually awesome, fantastic SFX, the sentinel attack on the loading docks is one the most stunning pieces of cinema I have ever seen, and I've seen a lot, I'm a projectionist! But the film left me feeling hollow.

I'm not going to spoil it for those who want to see it, but it could have been so so much better.



Someone dies who I really don't want to. Sucks ass.





~Lou

Edited by: Warduke at: 11/4/03 8:13 pm

[MaClayMagic]

I've been, I've seen....and I am having to go again at the expence of the local UCI because the copy of the film they showed was a bad one. It had a lousy focus and the whole audience (loads of people all off work at 2pm!) were NOT impressed.

As for the film itself....I'm still shell shocked. I will not spoil it for anyone because I really think this is something that you have to see for yourself. I'm rather disappointed in what happens at the end, but there's a part of me that understands it. At the moment, I am just boggled by the effects and the hugeness of the machines. And cheering the fact that the female leads and other female characters were such heroines!

I think "Reloaded" will always be my favourite because it was such a great showcase of the Matrix's world itself (and Trinity was so darn cool!) As for Revolutions, it has to be seen, because you just can't explain it! lookie here, a smilie with Neo glasses!

"The world feels so much better when you find you don't fit

There's a ladder in my tights and who gives a **** if woops you ain't shiney and perfect" - Amy Studt

[vix84]

A review from the LA Times:

Quote:

---

"[The film] is a self-reflexive, masturbatory fantasy and an attempt to re-create the blissed-out reveries and pleasures of childhood, something symbolized by Monica Bellucci's breasts, which are served up to camera like a pair of golden apples."

---

~*@.......We are the weirdest person in the world.......@*~

[MaClayMagic]

"A pair of golden apples"!!!!!!! I love that!! I have to admit that I had to blink and look again to see if what I had indeed seen was true! Yikes! In the words of the great Emma Thomson "Tits on shelves!"

In the light of today, the day after seeing the film, reality has hit and I'm a little depressed. A big part of me wants the film to have a different ending, even though I can appreciate the one shown. Still niggles though. Call me old fashioned, I like real happy endings!

"The world feels so much better when you find you don't fit

There's a ladder in my tights and who gives a **** if woops you ain't shiney and perfect" - Amy Studt

[Shinnen]

i was gonna post this yesterday after i came back from the show but i got sidetracked. I managed to get seats 2nd row from the screen... and when monica belucci's heaven sent gifts came into view... it was literally in my face. That was the most... vivid in-your-face experience i've ever had.



I like how Niobe piloted the ship and how she made the MCP captain literally jawdrop cos of her piloting skills.

CheerZ

Shinnen



She's the most amazing girl in the whole world. She's the only girl who makes my heart beat faster and slower at the same time. When I'm not with her, I'm not living. I'm not existing until I can hold her in my arms again.

[AmberAlysonlover]

Here is the start of my rant:



I just came home from seeing Matrix Reolutions and I am very mad! How dare they kill off Trinity! She was a true star of the film and how dare they think people would be happy with it, I'm for one aint.



I knew someone was gonna die but I hoped that it wouldnt be her. So I went along, watched and waiting and then it happened. I sat there crying, kicking the front seat and moaning about it. It felt like when Tara was killed off in Buffy. She was so happy and in love, but like all good things she has to die!



I could tell she was gonna die, they didnt give her much to say or do. Unlike the last one, Neo ( He is sooooooo wooden!!) couldnt bring her back. What total bull! He did it once so he could have done it again.....but noooooooooooo....she had to die!



I am thinking maybe like Buffy, Joss wrote that part and knew what some people would think. I hated that part and I wont ever forgive them for killing her off. All in all, the film was ok, not wonderful. I enjoyed the second one more.



It was just a shame she had to die

[justin]

I saw revolutions today and I'm one of the few people who wasn't disapointed with the ending.



Basically after everything I'd heard I went into the film expecting the ending to be crap and was therefore pleasantly surprised by it.



However I can't escape the conclusion that neither Reloaded or Revolutions really added anything to the Matrix story. I think it would have been better if the first film had been allowed to stand on it's own without the sequels.

Quote:

---

I could tell she was gonna die, they didnt give her much to say or do. Unlike the last one, Neo ( He is sooooooo wooden!!) couldnt bring her back. What total bull! He did it once so he could have done it again.....but noooooooooooo....she had to die!

---

What you're forgetting is that the first time that Trinity died it was within the Matrix while the second time it was in the real world. Presumably that was why Neo wasn't able to save her.

Anya in a wimple...I'd pay full admission for that. Gods Served And Abandoned - by Antigone Unbound


You know the worst thing about people in a relationship? The fact that they're in a relationship. - Hilda Spellman

[sam7777]

Finally got around to seeing Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions. I saw Reloaded on DVD then went with a friend to the theatre to see Revolution. IMHO this is the best way to go since Reloaded ends in a cliffhanger. I preferred Reloaded to Revolutions because it has more plot and a better ending and spend more time in the Matrix. All of your fav Matrix characters are back: Neo, Trinity and Morpheus. The special FX are great and there are some fantastic action pieces. Neo has some new abilities but seems to devolve back into the Kungfu type fighting of the first movie for the most part. The plot involves ending the war between Zion and the machines. Neo is still the one prophesized by the Oracle but she has her own agenda here. There's alot of philosophising about love being a word for a concept and the programs get more humanized. Agent Smith is back as a bigger threat than ever. However, I fgound the ending of Revolutions to be anticlimatic with two characters just talking cryptically about stuff. I wanted more closure with the main characters.



The great thing about the movies is the FX which are fantastic but don't break new ground like the FX of the first movie did. The fight sequences are will done. Another nice touch is a truly racially diverse cast. It's always nice to see something that is not in an all white enclave. It's great to see people as the principals and the background characters that actually look like people I can see on the street of SoCal (just much much better looking).



The less great thing about the movies is the plot. The first movie worked pretty well as one movie. Like Justin, plot-wise I don't really see a reason to do more and the latter two movies just repeat the ideas of the first one. I can't help thinking that Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions were made bacause Matrix got big box office and not because there was more story to tell. Too often financial criteria take over creative ones almost always to the detriment of the story. For example, I personally found little need to do X-Files seasons 8&9, the last two BTVS seasons and Babylon 5 season 5. I think the prior season to those above wrapped things up nicely.



I found Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions to be well done and fun enough to watch but don't expect a real conclusion to the story or new ideas.



OTOH Animatrix rocks!

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[chilled monkey]

I also liked Matrix Revolutions. One of my favourite scenes is the freeway chase. It featured incredible stunts, some cool f/x and some good humour.



TRINITY: You always told me to stay off the freeway.

MORPHEOUS: That's true.

TRINITY: You said it was suicide.

MORPHEOUS: Then let us hope that I was wrong.







I also liked Neo's encounter with the Architect. Clever idea, having the prophecy of the One turn out to be a trick.



One thing that I don't understand though, is how a deleted program can chose to 'live on' as an exile. This means that processing power is wasted generating programs that contribute nothing to the system.



Also, who was the Agent that Smith assimilated during the fight between Neo and the Smith clones. At first I thought it was Agent Jones from the first movie, but I've checked imdb and Robert Taylor (who plays Jones) is not credited with appearing in this movie. It can't be one of the new Agents either because all of them appeared in the freeway chase.

[sam7777]

Now that the Wachowski brothers are doe with the matrix, I'm really loooking forward to their next project. They have an innovative film style and work better when they do new material. They get great props from me for haviing such a racially diverse cast in the Matrix movies. IMDB.com doesn't show any new projects but I'm sure they are just taking a well deserved rest after putting out 2 movies in one year.