Tipping The Velvet Thread

[xita]

I see this is being discussed in a couple of places so I think it deserves its own thread. Maybe I can download the sucker from somewhere.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Tara and Willow

Accept NO subsitutes

[Dumbsaint]

And if you do find a place to download it, whore of my heart, you'd best be passing that knowledge along to me.



I freaking love that book.

"And never let it be said that I left a Tara craving unsatisfied." Willow, Wilderness Pt. 1

[MadeinNZ]

By some freakish co-incidence I finished reading the book this morning. Loved it. Can't wait to see the TV version. We usually get most of the British dramas down under fairly quickly, so fingers crossed.

------------------------------


Anya: I have finesse! I have finesse coming out of my bottom!

Edited by: MadeinNZ at: 10/11/02 7:51:40 pm

[EffieBlue]

It's out on DVD later this month.



It was an interesting start to the story, certainly no "Evils Good " editing... as it was perfectly obvious what was going on under the sheet....



next week looks ...well ....interesting...LOL

[Kendahl897]

I'm not real familiar with this movie? Is it based on a book and if so by whom?

[KISMIC]

Is that right MadeinNZ, we get the British dramas? Well if you see or hear anything about it coming down this way, PLEASE make sure to let us know!





*~Kristy~*

[scifiacid]

Yes, the book has the same title Tipping the Velvet and is by Sarah Waters.



Here's the amazon page with some info

www.amazon.com/exec/obido...6?v=glance

"Oh,
man. I wish I WAS a lesbian. I would get laid every night for the
rest of my life." ~ Amber Benson, Loveline 3/14/02

[urnofosiris]

Reposting myself as I did not type this all up for naught dammit.



Anyway, another brief summary for those who missed it or cannot watch but are curious still:



Nan is the youngest daughter, 18, of a relatively humble family. She has an older sister and a younger brother. Her sister is being wooed by a man who runs a local theatre company. One night the entire family goes to see the show and one of the acts is Miss Kitty Butler. She is dressed as a man and the moment Nan lays eyes on her is as if she gets struck by lightning. Love at first sight. Her sister's suitor offers her the chance to come and watch every show, which she does. At the end of her act Kitty always throws a rose at a pretty lady and each evening Nan is sitting there hoping and praying that Kitty will throw that rose at her.



One evening Kitty finally looks right at her and hands her the rose. Nan leaves but is detained by her sister's suitor who takes her to Kitty. Kitty is flattered by Nan's attention and compliments and asks her to be her dressing maid. Nan happily agrees. During this first meeting there is a lovely moment when Nan accidently sees the reflection of a naked Kitty who is changing behind a screen. She looks away quickly and gets quite flustered. Her heart pounding and her mind racing.



Kitty gets an offer to perform in London and asks Nan to come with her. Nan is over excited at the idea and her kind parents willingly let her go while her sister looks on with a suspicious and slightly sour expression. They arrive in a special apartment building for all sorts of different entertainers and artists. They get a small room in the attic with a skylight. When they enter the first thing Nan sees is this teeny-tiny-only-one-there-is bed. She looks as if the earth just opened up and tried to swallow her whole. She will have to sleep in that bed with the woman she is deeply in love with but who is oblivious to her feelings. To make it worse Kitty keeps saying things like "how she longed to have a sister" before draping herself over Nan. So close yet so far away.



At first the Londoners hate Kitty's acts but over the months they warm up to her and she becomes a huge hit. One night while Kitty is out Nan dresses up in one of Kitty's suits and starts to reenact Kitty's routine. Kitty walks in and Nan apologizes quite embarrassedly. Kitty however is struck by Nan's looks and tells her she cannot resist such a pretty boy and gently and briefly kisses her on the lips. Still Nan is no closer to declaring herself or to what she really wants.



Kitty convinces Nan to become a part of her act. On stage they are brothers and an ever growing hit with the audience. Dressed as 2 men they even stage kiss each other as a part of their act to the delighted embarrassment of the audience.



One night both women are at a party celebrating their success. They share a dance together first and then Nan has to look on jealously while Kitty dances with her manager. Nan who is slightly intoxicated by now is asked to dance by a young man and she reluctantly accepts but is soon merrily swinging away much to the sudden anger of Kitty who walks up to her and angrily announces she is leaving. Nan runs after her and joins her in the coach which is taking them home. They have a brief argument which ends with their lips pressed together and the two of them finally naked in bed. Lovers at last.



Their act on stage continues to be a success whilst in private they enjoy their secret (at Kitty's urging) lovemaking. Finally Nan goes home for a few days whilst Kitty is off on business with her manager. Nan's family is happy to see her and that she is doing so well, except her sister, she is acting jealous and resentful the moment she lays eyes on Nan. That night Nan happily confesses her feelings about Kitty to the sister with whom she used to share all her thoughts and feelings only to be met by bitter disgust. As it turns out her former suitor liked men as much as he did her. She is none too fond of homosexuality.



Nan is still secure and happy in her sexuality though and eagerly returns to London to be with her lover rather than spend one more day with a sister who now hates her. She runs up the stairs past the landlady who exclaims in a rather alarmed manner that she is back so soon. She bursts though the door of their room to be met by the sight of her lover in bed and Mr Manager very casually dressed. It is obvious what has happened in her brief absence.



To be continued..



So the first part itself was really wonderful. The acting was superb and I thought the actresses had a wonderful chemistry going. I loved the way Nan was worried that something was wrong with her because she did not feel the things she was supposed to feel when she was kissing her "sweetie" in the beginning. She was not even sure what she was supposed to feel until she laid eyes on Kitty. That look of lightning striking her was really well done. Bam. Love at first sight. I loved the build up, the anticipation and the way they finally got together for the first time. The love/sex scenes were great. The scene in the end where she happily tells her sister that there was nothing wrong with her after all because she can feel all of those things now, only for a girl was very sweet, and her genuine surprise at her sister's disgust over this almost heartbreaking. I love it that Nan has no doubt that there is nothing wrong with her and her delight at discovering her sexuality.



Like I said the ending of this part and the previews to the next made me wince. I was dreading something like this for reasons obvious on this board. Happy ending? What is that? However I have no idea how this will end, I have not read the book and I am (still) unspoiled. I did love it, the acting, the scenery, the chemistry between the leading ladies and the story (well up until those last 5 minutes, which sounds familiar) are wonderful. I will spoil myself as soon as I have the time though. I don't want to sit there wondering for the next few weeks if I will have ended up watching another cliche, which was great at the start but heartrending at the end.

--------------------

Tara: "uh Willow?"

Willow: "No dancing naked, huh?...It just won't be the same."

Tara: "That's all right, we can save it for later" ----From Wilderness, the newest WT comic written by Amber Benson and Christopher Golden

Edited by: DrG at: 10/11/02 11:20:43 pm

[thuringwethil]

Forgive me if this was mentioned some where else but I couldn't find it. In my second delurking to date I'd just thought I'd say that Sarah Waters new book Fingersmith has been shortlisted for the Booker Prize this year.



Shortlist

[MaClayMagic]

The latest Diva magazine has the two actresses interviewed inside, they are also emblazoned on the front cover in corsetted glory! (geez, those have to hurt!) Rachel Stirling plays Nan, the handsome dark haired lass! And her mom in real life is none other than Diana Rigg, "Mrs Peel, we're needed"! And you can see the beauty of her mother shining through her! Keeley Hawes plays Kitty, the interview says she's bisexual. As soon as the show finishes it will be out on video and DVD October 28th I believe. Nice to see a period drama where lesbians take centre stage, that's the kind of drama I prefer!!

Edited by: MaClayMagic at: 10/12/02 3:20:52 am

[Killin Joke]

Just posted my comments on Tipping the velvet in the "Other lesbians in the media" thread, and then this thread pops up. /chuckle/ Ah well, I'd like to repost, but I don't think I have the authority to do that, and am certainly not risking any punishment by pulling off some lame attempt to do so



Anyway, I was willing to tape to nurture some desperate kitties, but it's in PAL format. I have a question, though: do any of you know if you can tape from a PAL tape to an NTSC tape ? I know my VCRs can read both, but I'm not sure, where copying is concerned.

"Visions dance throughout the night in the pale moon light in the witching hour" (Symphony X)

[MaClayMagic]

Killin Joke, taping PAL to NTSC is usually the domain of the shops who charge you £££'s or $$$'s to transfer! Been there, done that! Most VCR's will read the NTSC but won't copy. You need a special machine to do the copying. Pain in the butt! So says ones who wanted to send videos to family in America! We have since found a place that does conversions for £7 total!!!! Try this guy, he did our Christmas video last year for us and it was brilliant!

www.video-conversion.co.uk/

This is his website. All the info is there plus his email address. Hope this helps.

[Killin Joke]

Thanks for the info, MaClayMagic It's not so much a problem for me, since I can just get tapes from American friends and see them, but it does sucks you can't return the favour. Of course I do make up for that by copying other stuff, like CDs,... It's nice to make people happy

"Visions dance throughout the night in the pale moon light in the witching hour" (Symphony X)

[stillflygrlop]

Hi,



Just wanted to know if anyone could be so nice as to provide a link for the Diva article. Or, if there is none, perhaps type it up?



Thanks a bunch!

[the kat whisperer]

There's a good interview with Sarah Waters in last week's Radio Times (5-11 October 2002).

[Contains slight spoilers]

Quote:

---

VELVET UNDERGROUND



Prepare for an outcry as a full-on lesbian love story hits TV, courtesy of Andrew Pride and Prejudice Davies. E Jane Dickson meets Tipping the Velvet author Sarah Waters.



A young girl heaves prettily in her corsets as her admirer throws her a rose. Kisses are stolen in a horse-drawn carriage. Tipping the Velvet, BBC2's lavish new bonnets-and-breeches drama, has all the hallmarks of classic historical romance. Except that, in this case, the breeches are worn by a woman. The TV dramatisation of Sarah Water's novel, a lesbian love story set in the music halls of 19th-century London, has provoked controversy before it even hits the screens, and Waters, on the whole, is glad of it.



"I'll be interested to see lesbian lives and lesbian sex propelled into people's living rooms in a very positive and a very glamorous way," she says. "I think there's still a tendency, among straight people, to see lesbian sex as slightly second-rate. So I'll be glad to see women having a really good time with each other on TV."



Starring Rachael Stirling and Keeley Hawes as the romantic leads, and with Anna Chancellor vamping it up as a splendid Sapphic dominatrix, Tipping the Velvet - the title is a 19th-century euphemism for cunnilingus - charts the progress of an oyster seller (Stirling) through Victorian society, lifting the lid on a wide range of woman-only underworlds. It is, Waters promises, "a good romp", but there are serious agendas, too.



"People tend to have stereotypes of the 19th century that don't include queer sexuality," she says, "so to have that familiar Victorian backdrop, with the horses and the carriage lamps, and then to have this quite startling lesbian action going on against that backdrop, will, I think, be exciting."



The Victorian age, says Waters, was not as strait-laced as we like to think. The refusal, attributed to Queen Victoria, to pass a bill criminalising lesbianism on the grounds that such things simply couldn't happen between women is enshrined in popular history. According to Waters, who holds a PhD in gay and lesbian literature from the late 19th century, this story is "almost certainly apocryphal". There is, however, a wealth of documentation pointing to the existence of sexual diversity in a society that preferred to avert its gaze. Waters cites the case of two Scottish schoolteachers, Miss Marian Woods and Miss Jane Pirie, who were publicly accused of lesbianism in 1811.



"The courts returned a 'Scottish verdict' [ie not proven]. The girl who brought the charge against the teachers had been brought up in India, and this played a large part in the women's defence, as it was generally agreed no upstanding Scottish girl would ever have come up with such an outlandish notion. Certainly there was a denial of lesbianism as a possibility in Victorian culture, and maybe that's why the Queen Victoria story has such currency."



Tipping the Velvet spotlights these formerly obscure areas of Victorian life, but also challenges contemporary notions of gender.



"People appeal to the past as a way of explaining or giving respectability to something, like gay men looking back to Ancient Greece or women looking to Sappho, but if people, including lesbians, think about lesbian history, they probably have one idea of what it was like," says Waters. "I wanted Nan [Stirling's character] to move through a whole range of different worlds and really have to make a decision about what kind of lesbian she wants to be. If Tipping the Velvet is about anything, it's about how to be a good lesbian."



Waters was keen to reclaim lesbian social history from the posturings of high-society figures such as writers Radclyffe Hall and Vita Sackville-West. Nan, her working-class heroine, dallies for a while in the leisured world of "society Sapphism", but is her best self in the marginal milieux of music halls and the women's suffrage movement.



"Lots of lesbian historical icons, like Radclyffe Hall and Vita Sackville-West, were deeply conservative figures. They were just dressing up and enjoying themselves, but because they had this profile in society, these are the images that come down to us. In the course of my research I learnt that some of the stars of the music halls had been involved with suffragism and other forms of socialism and this intrigued me."



Nan's music-hall career as a male impersonator, or "drag king", delivers a specific erotic charge that Waters hopes will not be lost on viewers. "'Drag kings' were part of mainstream entertainment. There isn't much historical evidence of lesbian activities associated with them. In fact, most of them were at pains to emphasise their off-stage 'respectability'. You'll find loads of pictures of Vesta Tilley, the most famous male impersonator of the day, looking dapper in all kinds of male costumes, but you'll find just as many pictures of her looking very girly on the arm of her husband.



"But the whole tradition of music-hall drag kings did allow for a playing around with gender, maybe more than we're used to on TV today, and I couldn't resist telling a lesbian story that involved looking at this kind of thing and how it may have straddled the mainstream and the queer. When they were filming, they got me a part as an extra in the opening credits, where Keeley Hawes is doing her music-hall routine as a male impersonator. I was part of the audience and was fascinated by the reactions of the other extras, most of whom hadn't a clue what the film was actually about.



"Keeley was on stage in her suit and she looked jaw-droppingly fantastic. I could hear a woman say, 'She's very pretty, isn't she?' to her less than enthusiastic male partner, while behind me another bloke was saying, 'Phwoar, she looks very attractive in her male suit.' Keeley was sparking off a sexual frisson right across the board, and I really enjoyed that."



Ultimately, however, Tipping the Velvet is "a lesbian story about lesbian worlds". Until now, Waters argues, lesbian drama, from Oranges Are Not The Only Fruit and Portrait of a Marriage to the lesbian storylines in Emmerdale and Brookside, has tended to focus on the problems of negotiating lesbian passion in a heterosexual world. "In Tipping," says Waters, "all the conflict and the drama come from women negotiating relationships with other women. They're not presented as victims, nor are they necessarily heroines. They're just women falling in and out of love and getting on with their lives. And the fact that they're all really gorgeous," adds Waters mischievously, "won't hurt at all."



Links www.bbc.co.uk/tipping

---

And a smaller interview with Rachel Stirling (also contains slight spoilers):

Quote:

---

STARTING AT THE TOP



If she looks familiar, it could be because acting's in her blood.



Rachael Stirling's well bred vowels (and cheekbones) are deeply reminiscent of her mother, Diana Rigg. Armed with both, it would have been easy, Stirling admits, to have climbed into an Emma Peel suit for instant front-page fame. Except she's playing a longer game.



"Mama didn't have a good time when she was being chased by paparazzi. Anyway, fame," she says, making it sound like something you might pick up on a bad night in Ibiza, "for me, is not the point." However, with the explicit scenes in Tipping the Velvet, fame is sure to follow.



"Nobody wants to stand in a room, stark naked and painted gold, when everyone else has their kit on," says Stirling. Yet, when the 25-year-old star of the drama first read the script, she knew that there was "no fiery hoop I wouldn't jump through for the sake of this part". The central role of Nan, who passes as a boy to negotiate the sexual backwaters of 19th-century Soho, is, Stirling agrees, a "once-in-a-lifetime showcase" for her talent.



Having written a student dissertation on "the empowerment of women in an age of repressive body politics," she's not new to gender issues, but Tipping the Velvet, she says, boils down to a simple proposition: "Love is love, whether it's between men and women, women and women or men and men. I'm not a lesbian, but I can quite understand why people are - women are so much more prettier with their clothes off, for a start."



Making her prime-time lead debut in a lesbian drama did not, says Stirling, require courage: "The only problem is that after doing something as classy as this, you worry anything else will be a downwards step." EJD

---

There are some pics that accompany the interviews that I could attempt to scan but I don't have anywhere to put them.



Anyhoo, I loved the first part and am really looking forward to part 2.



kw

Tara... aye mindit

[MAISEY12]

I'm currently reading this book and it's very good. (Fingersmith). Sarah Waters at her very best.



I hope she wins



I have to say that I was a little disappionted with the first part of the BBC2 adaption of Tipping The Velvet. But, I guess the books are always far surperior than there T.V. adaptions, although the beeb, are usually pretty good at this. I'm hoping part two will be better. I've heard that there is quite a steamy love scene in this part







Ann-Marie

Edited by: MAISEY12 at: 10/12/02 10:41:43 am

[Hanki]

well i loved the first part... apart from the ending of course which goes without saying i guess. Rachael Stirling and Keeley Hawes were excellent as the leads and the love scenes were well done.



I think my friends all want to kill me now though - they're getting slightly annoyed with my humming of the music hall songs, hehehe.



oh and i have to add i bought this book today and i've been reading it since i got home so i should be able to spoil you in about ten minutes or so

~ Han ~

Ravenshill ~ an original web series, a group of teen witches fight evil in an English town.

[Zippy]

So I just read in my newspaper, that the beeb received a number of complaints about this programme. Apparently it wasn't explict enough for some viewers



Before you ask it wasn't me who complained, any kittens want to own up!

[VampNo12]

Thanks for the summaries and interviews everyone it's greatly appreciated! Being in the states I doubt I will be able to watch this any time soon, but reading all these interviews/comments makes me intrigued about the novel the drama is based on. Therefore, I guess I am wondering if people who read the entire novel think it's worth buying this book to read (ie did you enjoy the book from start to finish)? Thanks !



Edited to add dumb me didn't notice the comments about the book in this thread, and I see people loved it, so I guess I will purchase this novel.

Edited by: VampNo12  at: 10/12/02 1:40:10 pm

[sexy bexy]

I'd pay real money to see Amber and/or Aly in this type of show!

[EffieBlue]

Hanki I sympathise...My daughter is getting fed up of me going round singing "It's only human nature after all.."

[stillflygrlop]

Is anyone able to scan some pictures of Hawes and Stirling from Tipping? It would be greatly appreciated, especially for those who don't get BBC and aren't going to anytime soon...*sigh*

[famer]

Some screencaps are available at http://www.bomscans.com See bottom right-hand corner.



The UK DVD & Videotapes are available on October 28, 2002 according to: www.contendergroup.com/CONTENDER/ctdgen.asp?pagename=ctdgen#ctd10110

Edited by: famer at: 10/12/02 8:37:45 pm

[xita]

famer has been kind enough to share a clip Yay FAMER!! For those of us deprived of the goodness. It's the good scene too :P



xita.org/velvet.html

- - - - - - - - - - - -
Tara and Willow

Accept NO subsitutes

[VampNo12]

Thanks so much farmer and Xita for the clip, it was definitely a very "good scene" indeed ! With such a hot/sexy scene how can I resist, now I am even more jealous of the kittens who get to see the whole drama . Thanks again!

Edited by: VampNo12  at: 10/12/02 10:23:10 pm

[Warduke]

Thanks farmer and xita for that clip. It was very "interesting" indeed

_________________________


Mozilla : There's a new browser on the block.

[runnerbird]

It's now 2:00am as I write this and I just finished reading 'Tipping the Velvet'...I just couldn't put it down. So, to someone who asked earlier... yes, it IS worth buying!



The book starts off a bit slow, but get moving relatively quickly and the last 200 pages or so are the best. Nan Astley is one of those rare engrossing characters that you can't help but love even when she's being a bit immature, selfish or illogical. And from the clips I've seen of the BBC miniseries (at this moment, I hate living in the States), Rachael Stirling is the way I imagined Nan to be. She definitely got her spirit pitch perfect.



The scene where Nan and Kitty arrive at their boarding house in London and Nan sees the bed her and Kitty are to share is JUST how I imagined it. Rachael Stirling's facial expressions are just spot on.



So GO OUT AND GET THE BOOK!!!



I'm now off now to being Sarah Waters second book 'Affinity'... I'll just sleep all day tomorrow.

------------------------------------------------

"There's only one instant, and it's right now, and it's eternity"

Waking Life (2001)

[Plastixs]

Anyone know if this will be coming to BBC America anytime soon? Just wondering...



Ron

[birdblue]

oh it's fantastic isn't it! I've never read the book - but I saw the first episode - and the trailer for the next one poor nan! I'm definately tuning in this wed for part two... lalalalaa



(re: complaints to the beeb - it wasnt me - honest )

'everyday she cried, not because she was
sad, but because the world was so beautiful, and life was so short'

[miss calendar]

Seeing as I'm a fan of the novel and have just watched a tape of the first episode I thought I'd join the discussion.



Dr G

Never fear, I don't want to spoil the ending but Tipping the Velvet is about as far from all the usual lesbian cliches as possible. Yes there's betrayal and angst but nary a dead lesbian in sight (and by the end we've come across a lot of different lesbians).



Vamp No 12

The book is well worth buying and I for one enjoyed it from start to finish. It's beautifully written and it's such a treat to come across a novel of this style and quality written from such an uncompromising lesbian perspective. I picked it up ages ago not knowing anything about it and was hooked immediately just by the writing. How's this for a great opening?





Have you ever tasted a Whitstable oyster? If you have, you will remember it. Some quirk of the Kentish coastline makes Whitstable natives - as they are properly called - the largest and the juiciest, the savouriest yet the subtlest, oysters in the whole of England. Whitstable oysters are, quite rightly, famous. The French, who are known for their sensitive palates, regularly cross the Channel for them; they are shipped, in barrels of ice, to the dining-tables of Hamburg and Berlin. Why the King himself, I heard, makes special trips to Whitstable with Mrs. Keppel, to eat oyster suppers in a private hotel; and as for the old Queen - she dined on a native a day (or so they say) till the day she died.





Anyway back to the adaptation. Well the BBC certainly enjoyed all the oyster imagery, including a great scene where Nan the oyster girl shows Kitty how to open an oyster and then feeds it to her. As she says earlier, ''open an oyster and it's like a secret world in there and that's how it was for me....''



I thought they did a good job of adapting it for the screen, staying faithful to the characters, plot and feel of the novel yet taking advantage of the different medium. While it wasn't as multi-layered or detailed as the novel they had a clear focus on the core essentials, Nan falling in love with Kitty, her gradual sexual awakening , the slow steps on the journey to them becoming lovers. It was romantic and erotic and passionate and felt respectful, not voyeuristic.The acting was great and so was the chemistry between Rachel Stirling and Keeley Hawes who are both gorgeous, whether in dresses or drag or naked ( okay so far no fully nude scenes without blankets covering down below but there were shots of breasts and licking and kissing which went further than any lesbian sex I've seen on tv so far).



Of course one advantage tv has is the visuals and I thought it was beautifully shot. I liked the fact that at times it was stylised and not just naturalistic. In the novel I love the narrative voice which is told from the point of view of Nan. I really liked how the tv version manages to maintain this pov through a combination of voice-overs, close ups of Nan to see her reactions to events and then showing her internal world through the camera shots and sound. So when Kitty ends her act by throwing a rose into the audience it goes all slow motion and there is a shot of Nan leaning forward in an empty theatre as if there is only her, Kitty and the rose and then it goes back to reality. Or later when Kitty and Nan are being shown to their new room the moment the door opens the landlady's voice is tuned out and there are close ups of the double bed and Nan's face as she realises they will be sharing a bed. And there's a lovely sequence when Nan first sees Kitty's act and is instantly smitten, the way it is filmed really conveys her feelings. Plus Keeley Hawes is stunning in drag, so as a viewer it's hard not to fall for her just as hard.

Like any book adaptation some things are lost in translation but I'm thinking for a storyline like this the visuals and the contribution of the actors is a definite plus.

Edited by: miss calendar at: 10/13/02 7:13:43 am