Queer movies: Do they suck?

[Ben Varkentine]

The Stranger, which is a Seattle free weekly newspaper, has an article on queer movies and why, in the writer's (Annie Wagner) view, most of 'em kinda suck.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=37675

Excerpts:

there's an abundance of great gay literature, and great gay visual art, and great gay theater—so what accounts for the fact that, given a random gay romantic comedy and its random straight equivalent, the gay movie will inevitably be lazier, duller, and generally more excruciating than its straight counterpart?

The answer is that gays, long starved for protagonists created in their own image, have unquestioningly gobbled up every last gay-themed movie. As Will of Will & Grace chirpily put it, "Let me tell you a little secret that we try to keep within the community: Gay movies suck. But until the laws change, we're still obligated to go see 'em." (Will has a lot of nerve to talk about sucky gay anything.) Whether it's about prissy preteens or wasting AIDS patients, wise old queens or shrill fag hags, obnoxious circuit boys or attractive trannies (or all possible combinations of the above, stuffed into one toneless cacophony), a gay movie will move tickets at the art-house box office. Not because it's good, but because it's good for "the community." And while gay-themed films have not sold tickets at a clip that would satisfy big studios—except for Brokeback Mountain—sales have been robust enough to maintain a entire pack of specialty distributors trafficking in hairless male chests (and, to a lesser extent, nuzzling pink-hawked girls).

And when queer filmmakers take on a tried-and-true formula, like Todd Stephen's Another Gay Movie, a twist on the virginity-shedding graduation summer of Porky's or American Pie, things go horribly wrong. Like hamster wrong. The words "butt cherry" and "man-snatch" wrong.

Lesbian movies, meanwhile, are susceptible to grave sins of their own. Coming-of-age movies like the catastrophically stupid Better Than Chocolate manage to hit every cliché in the (Rita Mae Brown) book—hidden vibrators, body-paint art, rainbow-festooned bookstores—while careening unevenly between featherweight comedy and dire melodrama.

Actually, I like Better Than Chocolate, except for a couple of things, but I'm only a member of the "gay-adjacent" community. And I think her larger point may be well-taken.

What do you guys think?

[iamthespark]

I agree. I think for the most part, gay movies do suck. Actually let me change that to lesbian movies, not gay movies (I havent seen many gay movies other than porn (umm don't ask, long story..), but at least there are 10 times more gay movies out than lesbian movies).

I personally did not like Better than Chocolate, but I still bought it because, much like what your quote said, it IS a lesbian movie, so I guess I should own it.

The problem with the movies seems to be with:

Plot: I don't remember seeing a lesbian movie that *wasnt* a romance. What ever happened to a good plot, with a woman that happens to be a lesbian, who happens to fall in love, but it is not the centre of the story?

Acting: I'll name Girl Play and Bar Girls as 2 examples of lesbian movies with horrible acting, I mean.. just gut wrenching to watch.

Budget: I think they've forgotten that it takes more than 5 dollars to make a movie!

On the other hand, the last 3 lesbian movies I've watched have been *great*, which goes to show that times are changing. DEBS, Imagine Me & You, and Loving Annabelle were entertaining, engaging and put together well (compared to other lesbian movies).

I love how DEBS was released without any mention in the trailer about what the movie was actually about. I wish I saw it in the theatre to see those teenybopper girls who thought they were going to see a cool 'spy spoof' run for their lives. muahahahahaaaa

[Twisted Minstrel]

Interesting topic...

Like anything else, I think queer cinema will evolve into stronger, possibly better forms in the future. What we've seen in the last thirty or forty years in cinema - starting with early exploitation films of the 50s and 60s, to the 'art-house' movement of the 70s with films like the Boys in the Band, slick, fetishistic stylism of the 80s (The Hunger), to what should have been the real birth of gay films in the 90s (Go Fish, Jeffrey, But I'm a Cheerleader) - is just growing pains. We're not there yet. Cinema is a perverse cross between art and commerce. When someone comes up with an idea for a gay-themed film that makes a ton of money (Brokeback Mountain notwithstanding), the rest will follow.

Right now, queer films do NOT make money. Not in general. They are still considered 'niche' films. The only reason Brokeback brokeout was the level of talent and hype involved. Philadelphia had a similar response when it opened. Famous stars, famous director, Oscars - it's a once-in-a-decade thing (and lets not forget how straight everyone is who makes these films).

If the films that are being made suck, it might just be the films that we get to see are so bad. Those are the films the distributors think will sell and make money. If there is nudity, sex, humor - it's almost a sure thing. But there are MANY small films being made that only show up at GLBT film festivals. They rarely find distributors, so they never make it to the cinema. They might make it to DVD or the Internet.

I recommend if you live in an area that has an GLBT festival, or if you know of one near you - attend. Encourage your friends to go. The more successful these festivals are, the more hype they can generate, the more likely a distributor will think films shown there will sell.

Another option would be - if you have any talent for it - write your own film. We have to be the ones to tell our stories. We can't expect Ron Howard or George Lucas or Steven Spielberg or even Jodie Foster to make the films we'd like to see. They won't. There are plenty of queers in Hollywood - but you'd never know it.

When the number one lesbian in America - arguably Ellen Degeneres - doesn't even mention gay topics on her highly popular talk show (not that I've ever seen anyway) - that should give you a strong barometer of just how popular being gay in this country still is.

It isn't.

[FineyMcFine]

Here's a humorous item from the Fake Gay News about lesbian movies: Academy Announces Ban on Bad Lesbian Movies

[Devi Crystalseeker]

"Butt cherry" and "man-snatch"? People really use those words outside of badfic? *blinks*

[Kieli]

"Butt cherry" and "man-snatch"? People really use those words outside of badfic? *blinks*

ROTFLMFAO!! Oh dear god, you have GOT to be kidding? People actually SAY that?

[billy]

Here's a humorous item from the Fake Gay News about lesbian movies: Academy Announces Ban on Bad Lesbian Movies

I watch a lot of gay and lesbian movies and TV shows but haven't noticed any of the points they make about lesbian movies, although I've seen them in some gay movies which were pretty much unwatchable. I'm obviously watching the wrong movies and I haven't seen Claire of the Moon yet but that sounds like a good thing.

As for whether gay movies are worse than 'straight' movies, I find it difficult to compare them. Some of them I watch only because they include gay or lesbian characters but some are really good. Could it simply be the case that the majority of movies in general range from average to really bad, not only LGBT movies?

The problem I have with them is the low budgets. I'd like to see gay and lesbian characters in different types of bigger budget movies and TV shows. Hopefully the gay Superman movie will make up for it a little.

[SJ]

My friend in California and I have both written gay rom-com screenplays and they're pretty good.

[Alcy]

Hmm, it's a tough question. I'm inclined to agree with billy and say that movies, whether queer or straight or whatever, range acrosss the spectrum. However, in saying that I think the lack of budget has a large impact on queer film, and also the lack of funding to get them made in the first place. I'm sure there are heaps of talented queer film makers out there with great ideas that just need the funding to kick them off. For example, with Angela Robinson getting 4 million to do DEBS. Granted, DEBS has a hell of a lot of flaws but how great was it to see a lesbian flick with some money in it?! Not to mention hot chicks with guns kicking arse. And my other favourite lesbian flick, Imagine Me and You, kudos to that director for running with something different and taking a risk (and hiring PP and LH!!!!!)
And then there's the bad, we've just had our annual GLBT film festival here in New Zealand and I gotta say the standards were dire this year. My favourite was Loving Annabelle by far but it didnt have to actually be all that good to beat out the rest of the crap. 'The D Word'? My girlfriend and I hightailed it out of that movie after 10 minutes.
In the long run though, whether its fantastic, or so crap that you walk out of it, its just great to see films with GLBT (in my case lesbian) characters.
I could rant and rave all night about queer cinema, I love film in general and I love being a critic but my new PS2 game is calling to me!
Interesting to read what other Kittens think.
Cheers
Alcy

[Culzean]

I agree, the low budgets have a big impact on the quality of these films. I really enjoyed "It's in the Water" but you have to be a rather forgiving viewer in order to embrace this film.

I would also love to see more movies that do not involve coming out. And more comedies. And how about doing adaptations of some of the better lesbian novels? I would love that.

Of course, to do the novels justice you would need to be able to work with a budget. And now we are back full-circle.

[jsr]

Delurking after a lifetime of awayness to comment on this subject.

I think we're being a little unfair to categorically say that gay movies suck. I can really only comment on lesbian-themed movies since I haven't seen that many "gay" movies per say.

Yes a lot of dyke movies absolutely suck beyond comprehension. "Some Prefer Cake," "Out of Season," "Girl Play," "Claire of the Moon," and "The Girl" are a few that come to mind.

But then there are a whole slew of movies that I think are enjoyable. Brilliant -- no, but entertaining, yes. "It's in the Water," "The Incredibly True Adventures of Two Girls in Love," "Everything Relative," "DEBs," "But I'm a Cheerleader," and "Loving Annabelle," all fall into this category.

I also thought "Kissing Jessica Stein" was a cut above -- particularly in terms of writing/acting.

And then there is one of my all time favorite movies -- Fire. A movie with lesbian themes that is absolutely brilliant. If you haven't seen it, you must. And if you want to see a great movie with lesbian bits (although it's not the central plot line) check out one of Amber's favorites -- Antonia's Line. A really great quirky epic movie.

I think the more Dyke movies that come out, the more we will see that they truly run the gamut. And as in mainstream cinema, a truly "great" movie is often hard to come by. Many movies these days (even the big blockbusters) are mediocre at best in my humble opinion. Hopefully, there will be more lesbian-themed TV shows out in the future to further proove my point. One of the reasons I watch the L-word is because, as my gf puts it, it's the only game in town -- and cheesy lesbian TV is better than no lesbian TV to me. Hopefully more shows will appear that will disprove the "bad lesbian entertainment" cliche.

[SJ]

It sucks that if you are a new writer then it's very difficult to get your script read.
I tried the Agent route and Production Companies here in the UK and didn't get anywhere.

[dorksrcool]

High Art, Bound, By Hook or by Crook, Boys Don't Cry, Saving Face, Aimee and Jaguar, D.E.B.S., Derailed, Round Trip, and some others I can't think of....

they absolutely do not suck, but I guess it comes down to how you define "queer" movies.

I also like most gay-themed documentaries made by gay and gay-friendly people.

[Knock yourself out]

Aimee and Jaguar

This is one of the best films I have seen full stop.

I think if you take any group of films by theme or genre or whatever, you'll end up with loads that range from mediocre to rubbish and a handful that are good.

So to answer the question, no, they don't.

[DameSansMerci]

Ohhh, thank goodness you guys said "Aimee and Jaguar"...I was going to have to get uglier than I already am (hehe). Also, I'm with you on what I've seen of "Round Trip", and, personally, what I've seen of "8 Femmes". I also was incredibly pleased with most of "Alexander", the relationship part anyways....yes, I think there were some parts to it that were anti-gay (anyone listen to their butchered portrayal of Aristotle and his feelings on Achilles and Patroklas?), but I thought the movie more or less gave us a gay relationship that was life-long and meaningful. And Angelina Jolie to boot. I also loved "To Wong Foo...Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar", as I thought it was very open-minded and FAB-U-LOUS. I mean, Patrick Swayze as a transvestite...c'mon, folks, big star, big budget, and if I may say so, HOT combination. He's so pretty anyway (uh, yes I'm a lesbian, but I mean, he's hot in a skirt!). And "The Birdcage", that was another movie with big stars, big budgets, and a broader message than what you usually find in a mainstream movie with gays (in this case, gay parenting). I think good gay cinema all depends on message, actors' portrayals of gay characters, time and money spent on writing/making the movies, and on how deep the emotional connections in the movie run. It has to be believable and speak to us as humans, IMHO.
Just my two cents. Good topic, guys!
Jen

[billy]

I also loved "To Wong Foo...Thanks for Everything, Julie Newmar", as I thought it was very open-minded and FAB-U-LOUS.

I loved To Wong Foo. A really enjoyable feel good movie. In fact I think two of the very best feel good movies are queer: Better Than Chocolate and Latter Days, and Better Than Chocolate has a wonderful soundtrack.

[JustSkipIt]

First off, thanks to everyone for the anti-recommendation for Girl Play; I just took it off my Netflix queue. I liked D.E.B.S. tremendously and actually got it for my wife for Valentine's day as a little surprise. One movie I haven't seen mentioned and I consider it lesbian although it's much more is Bound. It's a fantastic, sexy, and thrilling movie. Most people believe that it was basically the W-brother's audition for the funding to do the Matrix movies. And it worked pretty darn well.

[Knock yourself out]

Dating me somewhat, other lesbian films I have appreciated over the years include Lianna (I remember a quote from which may not be accurate but along the lines of “just because you can argue better than me doesn’t mean you’re right”), I’ve Heard the Mermaids Singing (set in an art gallery – not unlike my visualization of Marissa’s gallery in Neverland) and Desert Hearts. Those were the days when I went to the cinema weekly.

[NewRuthRising]

There are good and bad queer movies in my opinion, just as there are in straight movies, and if you think about the sheer number of truly shite straight movies around I don't think it's a genre problem. I think it's a numbers problem. The proportion of good movies to bad movies is about the same, but the number of queer movies being made is a lot fewer, so inevitably people think that us queers can't make a good movie unless it's a full blue moon Samhain/Friday the 13th/Mardi Gras.

Having said that, for the love of GOD, nobody watch Claire of The Moon. It was the second queer film I ever saw and it nearly made me want to be straight. The first, if anyone cares, was Better than Chocolate, a film which I adore.

[MochaVamp]

NewRuthRising says:

There are good and bad queer movies in my opinion, just as there are in straight movies, and if you think about the sheer number of truly shite straight movies around I don't think it's a genre problem. I think it's a numbers problem.

I agree with you entirely, so few queer films get made, and they are often made on a lower budget. I actually think the percentage of bad queer films is quite low when you consider that many are made by first time directors on a low indie budget.

As far as Claire of the Moon, I worked with a couple that one partner loved it the other hated it. One day I rented it, just to check it out. I will never get that time back. What a slow moving film. However, the cinematography was very good. I will never forget during the director's commentary she talked about how the weather changed on the beach, allowing them to drop a few scenes and speed up the movie. My God, I can't imagine a longer version of that film!

That being said, I think Claire of the Moon did well with many lesbians because it was one of the first lesbian films to look like a real movie, and had minor characters that looked like lesbians you might meet in real life. Timing was key to the film’s success.

[Ben Varkentine]

so few queer films get made, and they are often made on a lower budget. I actually think the percentage of bad queer films is quite low when you consider that many are made by first time directors on a low indie budget.

I've almost certainly seen less queer films than most of you-though more than the average straight guy, unless we're counting porn. But I have to wonder, is it the low budgets, or an inability to work smart within those budgets?

It seems to me that a good director with a good team can still produce good films on an indie budget. The problem with the bad queer films that I have seen seems to be one of setting unrealistic expectations for what you can do with the money and resources that you have.