Your favourite WT kiss & any other WT kiss talk

[mscheckmate]

My GF is not a BtVS fan, but she got really interested when I described the "Entropy," kiss in all of its passion, hunger, sexiness, and length. In fact, GF was so interested that she wanted to, uh, act it out. A lot.



So, the "Entropy," kiss is my favorite. And not just to watch

Edited by: mscheckmate at: 7/11/02 2:16:56 am

[Repost Moderator]

originally posted by kc070697



I am slightly confused... I had seen the fist W/T kiss in stills and in slow motion before I ever saw it in context with the episode... and I have to say I'm a bit miffed. How come it was so casual and neither even... uh, I dunno... remotely acknowledged it? I don't know about you, but when I kiss a girl that I like for the first time, I feel A LOT... and there is no denying that. When other characters have had monumental moments with their SO's, there have been flashy camera angles, exciting &/or romantic music, etc. I'm just wondering.. what happened here?

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by Lindy



Are you speaking about the kiss in the episode The Body? If you do, well, that wasn't Willow and Tara's first kiss per se. They have been dating for more then a year at that moment, so I am sure they shared plenty of kisses up untill that point. We just didn't see them.



The Body didn't contain of any music at all. That was a mean of art for the episode only. Camera angles were awkward or different too, for the same purpose, to create a certain kind of atmosphere.



The kiss they shared here was a comforting kiss, and at that it was perfect.. imho. Willow was crying and sad and Tara calmed her and gave her comfort.

[Repost Moderator]

Originally posted by kc070697



Ahhh... I see... but it was the first on-tv kiss for W/T, then? That makes much more sense... thank you for clarifying

[urnofosiris]

The Kiss from the Body was their first onscreen kiss, the first one we got to see, but not the first one between WT. They had been lovers for over a year when the Body aired. But the thing is that no matter how -according to some people- equal and like individuals Willow and Tara were treated we had to wait more than a year before we got to see it, and it was a comfort kiss, perfect as far as I am concerned, but not the lusty passionate type of kiss that lovers also share, and then we had to wait another year before we finally got that, and then we only had to wait a week before Tara got her equal treatment.



We have had to endure arguments from WT naysayers that WT were not really lovers, that they acted more like sisters blah de blah. Well the reason they could even make those absurd arguments is that unlike our heterosexual individuals we did not get to see WT share their very first kiss and/or roll around in the bed, and the reason we did not get to see that is because they could not show that because of those people who would say nay to Willow and Tara in the first place.



When the Body finally aired there were still claims they did not really kiss as their lips did not touch, hum yeah. I guess I was lucky because they did touch lips in the episode *I* saw, and it was a perfect kiss, open mouthed, spit string, a full profile shot, but it was also about a year overdue.

---------------------------


Tara: "uh Willow?"

Willow: "No dancing naked, huh?...It just won't be the same."

Tara: "That's all right, we can save it for later" ----From Wilderness, the newest WT comic written by Amber Benson and Christopher Golden

[the kat whisperer]

Well, since I haven't seen Entropy and therefore the Make Up kiss (damn) or Seeing Red and all the kissage there (and I never will, 'cause I'm never going to watch that ep even though I do miss out on all the goodness prior to the ending), I can only base my opinion on the first three kisses. So, out of those, I'd have to say the Comfort Kiss from The Body wins every time...



Why? Because it's their first on-screen kiss, it's a perfect comforting moment between two lovers... and it's just so sensual and sexy



Plus, for some reason, the fact that Tara is the one that kisses Willow makes it all the more perfect for me, since up until that point in the series Tara was always portrayed as the weaker, shy one in the relationship, and it just 'fit' that she was the one to take control... and now I'm rambling and not entirely sure what my point was, but there you go...



kw

"There must be a fortress of light to stand against the darkness, that place is this place, it must be protected at any cost."
Delenn (Babylon 5: The Long, Twilight Struggle)

[johnluvswillandtara]

The "can...can you just be kissing me now?" kiss is my fave on so many levels-that whole scene is a classic,but the kiss is so full of passion & desire & need;and it's a REAL kiss,the way Tara has her hand on the left side of Willow's face & through her hair.WOW!

[urnofosiris]

Oh yes, and Willow's hands are doing some roaming around on their own as well. Yum.

[Puff]

I have such fond memories from the kiss in The Body. The episode aired in the US before the UK of course and so I downloaded the clip from a site when I was at work. I remember waiting (rather impatiently) and IMing Dr G who was also downloading the clip at the same time and we were exchanging the % that we had.



Then the clip *sigh* Even without sound the emotion/passion/tenderness and so much more came across loud and clear in those 44 seconds. I watched for hours, literally. I enjoyed picking different body parts to watch and spent several minutes just watching Tara's hands moving on Willow's shoulders.



Although each kiss after The Body had moments to enjoy and are special in their own right. It was this kiss for me that really defines the Willow and Tara relationship. The longing, the passion, the tenderness and need to comfort...everything really in just those few seconds. I feel the need to go and watch it again.

---

Donder and Vixen slashfic...its all about the harnesses and maybe the bells.

[urnofosiris]

I had forgotten all about that, heh, I remember it now though. So much excitement over a kiss. The Kiss. We did not have so many detailed spoilers about that episode. I remember Shazza alerted us to the possibility of a kiss when she spotted the TVguide warning, you know, the kind that tells concerned parents to not let young kiddies watch such horrible things as rape, murder, torture and loving lesbian kisses. However, not until the wildfeed did we know for sure. I remember logging on to Yahoo and getting 4 different IMs at once. I did not have to read them to know what had happened.



Then came Kajun's caps. I swear those affected me almost more than finally watching (and listening to ) the kiss itself. Those moments frozen in time. Willow's mouth slightly open, eyes closed, you could hear that gasp that escaped her lips just by looking at that cap. It was awesome. It was what we was what we wanted and what we needed. It was long overdue and not enough, but at the same time -thanks to Amber and Aly- it was perfect.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/8/03 5:50:32 am

[serenity]

yeah entropy!!

the sweetest kiss!! but i also like the one from the body!

willow and tara are sooo sweet!

[Garner]

How many on screen kisses were there between Willow and Tara total? The Body, Bargaining, Entropy, Seeing Red, those all come to mind off the top of my head. Am I missing any others? Boy, that doesn't seem like a lot once you get down to it. How many were there between ANY others, maybe only Xander/Anya got less. Well, maybe W/Oz didn't have much on screen smoochies either. Still, just wondering.



My favorite? Probably the one in The Body as that was the first and it had so much emotional weight and Tara supporting Willow, which was neat. The Entropy kiss is hotter, but the one before the horrendous event in SR was pretty hot too. Forever sullied by what comes next though. Too bad.



Garner

[kajo 2000]

Garner: If I recall correctly, there was also a brief kiss between Willow and Tara on the stairs of The Bronze during the Season 6 Halloween episode "All The Way".

[urnofosiris]

Garner, I can't answer exactly how many kisses the others have gotten, I never counted them seeing as I could not care less and all, heh, but I am sure that WT did not get enough compared to them. I am very happy about what we did get, but the censorship was there from beginning till the end, and when the shit hit us we were supposed to accept that they were just being treated like everyone else when previously they kept getting "special" treatment.



I remember in Family Xander/Anya sucking face, Riley/Buffy sucking face, Spike/Harmony fucking, and the censors nearly had a fit over WT snuggling in bed together in the dark while Willow was dressed for a Siberian winter. I recall the reasoning for that contrast was supposed to show the ridiculousness of the censoring, but it did not succeed to change a fucking thing apparently, except to rub in the inequality for those who were already well aware of it. Yet we were grateful for what we got, a wonderful romantic WT episode, no kissing, but wonderful nonetheless. Easy really as putting WT together and just having them throw lustful looks at each other was enough to please me. Not anymore though. I am now only grateful to Amber and Aly for making sure that the kisses we did get to see are worth a hundred each and last forever.

[Pipsqueak]

There were exactly 7 W/T kisses: The Body (1), Bargaining (1), All The Way (1), Entropy (1), and Seeing Red (3).



Garner's question about kisses between other couples on the show intrigued me, so I did a little research. It's pointless to compare the number of Willow/Tara kisses to the amount of time that Buffy has sucked face with anyone, because hello, ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME. So I didn't bother counting those. But if anyone is interested in how W/T compare to some of the other "sidekick" couples, here's a short list:



Willow/Xander: 4 (one is VampWill/VampXand)

Giles/Jenny: 5 (one is Drusilla-impersonating-Jenny)

Xander/Cordelia: 7

Willow/Tara: 7

Willow/Oz: 8

Xander/Anya: 13



So, not too shabby. Not nearly as good as X/A, though.

Albatross!

[urnofosiris]

None of those couples (counting from the moment they became a couple) had to wait a YEAR before their first on screen kiss was shown (not including X/W as that never was a couple) and then another before their lips touched for longer than half a second. For a couple such as Willow and Tara -the deeply in the forever kind of love couple- I think 7 is very shabby, especially compared to the ease with which others (not just the scoobies) are shown kissing. Well it would be shabby if the kisses we did get weren't so wonderful.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/8/03 1:45:04 pm

[Garner]

Thanks Pipsqueak and DrG for the checking into that. I'm a bit of a heretic here in that I didn't mind that W/T didn't have the in your face screwing of the other characters. I liked the more romantic and loving scenes that we did get. Amber and Aly were able to make those amazingly sensitive and romantic and really got through the depth of W/Ts' love. That was truly a joy to watch and that's partially why it hurts so much now that they're gone. Still, I would have liked to have seen the first kiss. That one should have been so important to Willow's growth, her dawning realization of what Tara meant, Tara's reaction. All of that makes its lack very upsetting, or maybe just so disappointing is a better way to put it. Willow went through a major event that was mostly kept off camera. I would have loved to have seen how she dealt with this more clearly.



The few kisses we did get of W/T were all great though. Again Amber and Aly put so much into them that they easily are much hotter and meaningful than most of the B/A makeout sessions from season 1 or early season 2. The chemistry between these two is so undeniable and impressive that the few we got are all to be treasured. And they definitely highlight how W/T were not just another couple. That argument always bugs me. They weren't just another couple because they were treated so differently, and they represented a minority that has no others like them. It is such a shame.



Garner

[xita]

I would have loved more kisses god knows, but I think we should also count touches, all kisses, holding hands, I think thumb caress per thumb caress, no one can claim to be closer. Who can recall a time when Xander stroked anya's cheek?

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner.

Tallulah Bankhead

[urnofosiris]

Oh I agree Garner and Xita, every little look and touch means so much, that is a big part of why I love them so. Why I believe that the love between them is forever and unique, and again I thank Amber and Aly for that.

[Garner]

Yes, most definitely! We certainly don't have Joss Whedon to thank for it. Given that Willow and Tara were not intended to originally be girlfriends, and what we've seen and learned since, I would say MOST of the W/T stuff that we love is from Amber and Alyson. Joss is so stupid to have split such gifted actresses who had such amazing chemistry up. Stuff like that is so hard to duplicate. Too bad his loss is ours as well.



The tenderness that W/T shared was a nice contrast to what Buffy and Riley had, and I agree with Xita that X/A didn't show it either.



Garner

[Ms Limon]

I so agree I think most of, if not all of Willow and Tara's tender moments came from Aly and Amber and the chemistry that they shared. For me I just loved all those little looks that they'd share.



Sometimes if you watch a scene really carefully and Willow is talking you can see Tara just sitting looking at her. Perfect.

[Pipsqueak]

Quote:

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The few kisses we did get of W/T were all great though. Again Amber and Aly put so much into them that they easily are much hotter and meaningful than most of the B/A makeout sessions from season 1 or early season 2.

---

Amen to that. When I was gathering the info on other couples' kisses, it actually took quite a while because I barely remembered any of them on my own. Looking back, it's like, "okay, I know Xander and Cordy (or whoever, insert random couple here) kissed on the show, but I can't recall any specific instances!" Whereas every single millisecond of every single W/T kiss is burned in my brain.



And I don't think that's just because I'm a W/T shipper. Giles/Jenny is also one of my favorite ships (and of course they ended in death and tragedy as well, go figure), and I couldn't remember any of their kisses. There's just something about the chemistry between Amber and Aly; whenever they share an intimate moment onscreen, the connection is SO intense, and it just reaches out and grabs you.

Quote:

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I think we should also count touches, all kisses, holding hands, I think thumb caress per thumb caress, no one can claim to be closer.

---

Ha ha, very true! There were lots of little subtle moments like that between W/T that were just amazing. In fact, I'm currently working on a W/T music video where part of the focus is on "hand" imagery; moments where they've held hands, or caressed each other with their fingers, or whatever. I didn't get that idea until I started going through the footage and realized just how many moments like that existed. There were a LOT.



And don't get me wrong, I do wish that Willow and Tara had been given the same opportunity as the het couples as far as physicality goes ..... but in a way, the censorship actually helped to make them one of the most believable couples I've ever seen on TV. When Buffy and Riley (again, insert random hetero couple) roll around in bed all naked and sweaty, the censors don't care, and I think that sometimes the actors let themselves be influenced by that; like "oh, X and Y have sex, no big deal, just another ordinary day", and it comes across in the acting. And so we have male/female sex scenes with no feeling behind them, and you start to wonder if these two people even like each other. But Willow and Tara had to make the most of every little look or gesture or touch, because that was all they had. So we get scenes where their fingers briefly touch and all of a sudden there's this powerful electricity in the air, and you can't help but believe that if their reaction to each other is that strong, they must be soulmates.



Did that make any sense? Not that I didn't want to see W/T roll around in bed all naked and sweaty. But you know what I mean.

Albatross!

[urnofosiris]

Oh I am looking forward to that video. Feel free to hurry.



Tiny rant a coming (not against you Pipsqueak, but against the censoring of WT), everyone best skip it and go back to kissing talk.



I don't agree about the censorship though. Well partly I do. I do believe that we probably got a few great scenes because of it, such as the Flaming O Spell, but I don't believe it helped making WT a more believable couple because they shared all those little touches instead of big snogs. Willow and Tara were a believable couple the moment they touched hands in Hush. They had that instant palpable chemistry Buffy and Riley didn't have. (I am sure some will disagree, but this is a WT board, so heh, tough luck ) WT happened on their own and B/R were forced to happen, that is why all their rolling around in the sheets did nothing for me. Willow and Tara would still have had soulmates stamped on their asses if they had been allowed to show them on screen as much as B/R. I believe we still would have gotten those little touches if we had been shown that first kiss or the first time they made love. I really think so because it just seemed to come naturally for Amber and Aly even before WT were written as a couple. I don't think that would have changed. When we finally saw them all afterglowy in SR it did not make the little touches less romantic to me and they were still there, only with tongue this time.



I will never see the bright side to the censoring of WT. I do feel that you can't go around saying and showing everything to everyone all the time. I understand that there is a time and a place for everything, just as long as it is fair and equal. They could not show WT kissing because it was on at 8 pm? Fine, censor away, just don't show any of the other couples kissing either.



Showing WT in a equal manner might have prevented some of the annoying are they or aren't they debates, though considering that even after the Body some people were still in denial about WT actually doing more than hold hands those 'discussions' probably would never have ceased altogether.

The censoring of WT gets me going every time, now more so than ever because they claim WT were treated equally when that is just a big pile of bodily waste. Can't have it both ways.



I must say though that aside from the Flaming O Spell another benefit of not having been shown their first kiss or their first time together is the huge amount of fic all the different possibilities inspired, but I thank all the wonderful fic writers for that, not the censors.



Anyway, back to kissing. I still say the spit string came from Willow.

[Little M]

Sh*t I missed this topic



Uhm anyway my fave is Post Sex Kiss......it was just wow



But Entropy kiss is close second and for anyone who likes that kiss it's a special on my website, with screencaps (lots of them) and video

------------------

'I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad..it's depressing' - Tara



www.amberbenson-online.cjb.net

[Chino6069]

Hey there, my gf came across a music tribute video to Willow and Tara last night on WinMX.



It's set to Mel C's 'Never Be The Same Again' and it's a corker.



Lots of lovely moments, 'Willow Hand','Extra Flamey','Floating Rose' and 'Flaming O', the list is endless.





I'm not sure if you've all seen it, but if any of you would like to we'd be happy to stick it up on our website for ya.



If your interested drop me a email or an AIM or a PM OK?

[urnofosiris]

That has to be the music video by GaBsHoPe, she has made several more and posted them on the Pens ("I'll Stand by You" being my favourite) which are must see for any WT fan. Here is the link to get to her homepage. The links to the videos on her site are down but she has given directions to a site where you can still find them. (I hope so, I haven't checked)

Edited by: DrG at: 1/11/03 5:25:10 am

[Chino6069]

Thanks DrG. I went to the sites and tried to download the videos but there seems to be errors on all the links or something. I'll try again another time. I'll certainly bookmark them.

[DRUSILLA LOVER]

my fav kiss is, a tie between the kiss at the end of entrophy. and seeing red.

[willow1982]

Can we love all of them? cause i do. hahahaha

I love all their kisses and all their moments together.

I watch them again and again. My vcr is gonna be broken soon. hahahaha.



amy

[3peanuts]

For me: THE KISS is Entropy Kiss. I know I seem kinda obsessed with that episode.



But hey, who wouldn't kiss that *puppy-dog-sweet-look* Tara?

"Cunning linguist" GG

Keynes was right