The Gilmore Girls and Other TV Alternatives

[themagicpixie]

I hope a British TV station buys GG and schedules it opposite Buffy and then we can have a repeat of what is happening Stateside, over here... GG sounds like a cool show - humour, strong female characters... I used to know a show that had those things, but it crashed and burned.

[scifiacid]

Well, first I just love BoP. I really hope it gets picked up. And Lori Laughlin, oh god old crush old crush. It was fabulous to see her again that’s for sure. And there was definitely no real evidence she died in that fire. I do wish they would focus less on the kid though. I don’t know, she’s my lest favorite of the characters thus far. I’m going to have to start watching GG again it seems. I watch the first season but fell off and since I’m barely taping Buffy these days, GG is now a must!

"Oh, man. I wish I WAS a lesbian. I would get laid every night for the

rest of my life." ~ Amber Benson, Lovelines.

[Cicca]

Thanks for the Mia Sara info!



The two luscious women happen to be none other than Willow and Tara!

Yum.

invite someone dangerous to tea * look forward to dreams * imagine yourself magic

[seurat]

Hi Italiangirl, i'd do the highlighting thing for your user name if I had any idea of how to do it!I certainly expect BC to be back and involved in Dina's life, but I have no concrete reason for believing that. Maybe one of our west coast showbizzy kittens will have some idea if she has signed a contract to be a recurring character. Meanwhile for the Lori fans out there, I heard she's guesting on Drew Carey tonight if you can bear to watch. (I'll have to cover my eyes at times. Or maybe just wait and catch a rerun if it turns out to be good.)

And as for the lovely Lauren Graham, she is of course majorly adorable as well as talented and funny. So yes to the whole would I like to date her thing, but i suspect the line forms to the right and then curves around many buildings. And by AB I trust you mean the resident goddess of the site and not Alexis Bledel?

[Italiangirl]

Oh Goodness YES, Amber Benson. Alexis Bledel, while lovely and talented, would not have occurred to me in about a hundred years.



On another subject, I was just thinking some more about Birds of Prey this afternoon. I was watching the earlier eps with a friend, attempting to get her all hooked on the show as well. (it worked...heh heh heh).



Anyway, I have a continuity/speculation question about Harley...and it is, does she know about the Birds of Prey? If not, then why not? Follow my logic...



From the weekly intro thingie done by Alfred, we know the following to be true, as canon:



1. Batman battled the joker and won.

2. The joker escaped the police for a few hours, long enough to attack Selena Kyle (catwoman) and Barbara Gordon (batgirl). This was retaliation against batman.

3. Selena Kyle died, Barbara Gordon lived, was paralyzed from the waist down, and became Oracle, the big knowledge woman of New Gotham.

4. Batman fled the city, devastated.

5. Barbara took in Helena Kyle, who became Huntress.

6. Along with Dinah, the three of them are the crime fighting trio the Birds of Prey.



Now, given the above statements, the following can be assumed true, making logical extensions:



1. The joker knew of Batgirl and Catwoman, and knew who their alter-egos were, as he killed them both when they were "people" rather than in superhero persona. It is unclear if the joker knew that Bruce Wayne was Batman.



From the show's first episode, we also know this:



2. Harley Quinn, the villainous, was once a lover of the joker's, as evidenced by the numerous times on the show she refers to him as "[her] Mister Jay."



So here's the question. Wouldn't Harley *KNOW* about Huntress and Oracle? She knows that Batman brought down the Joker. She was the lover of the Joker. I would speculate that she knew also that Barbara Gordon was Batgirl and Selena Kyle was Catwoman, given that the Joker tried to have them both killed the night of the big battle. She *KNOWS* that Helena is the daughter of Selena Kyle, archenemy of the Joker. She *KNOWS* that Helena was taken in by Barbara Gorden, also archenemy of the Joker. She knows that Barbara Gorden did not die in the attack. She knows the Helena's father is Bruce Wayne, and that Helena wanted her father to find and kill the man responsible for her mother's death.



Has she, or has she not figured it out yet? It seems to me it would not be that hard. It seems to me she would want to keep tabs on Barbara Gordon, given that she was once a superhero and was put in a wheelchair by Joker.



I have gotten the impression during her therapy sesssions with Helena that she is fishing for information about Bruce Wayne, Barbara Gordon and Helena herself. I'm not really sure how she *couldn't* know about everyone's secret identities.



Anyone else have thoughts on this? I'd love some other opinions.

[BBOvenGuy]

Okay, I finally got to see this week's Birds of Prey last night. It seems that Buffy isn't the only show falling victim to wacky network promo writers. The WB's advertising had made it look like Black Canary was going to show up and have a major fight with Huntress, but instead they mostly ignored each other. Ah well... I've seen the WB do similar story-twisting to Gilmore Girls, too.



This really was a good episode, like you folks were saying. I don't think we've seen the last of Black Canary. And it seems like Reese and Helena have more in common than they thought... both with parents in the world of crime. Hmmmm...



Oh, on another topic, The Futon Critic is reporting that Stargate SG-1 has been picked up for a seventh season. Originally the Sci-Fi Channel was only going to run the show for one season, but the ratings have been so good that they talked Richard Dean Anderson into doing another season. And the funny thing is, SG-1 has been running on Friday nights at 8:00 - the same time slot as Firefly.

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"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

[Ben Varkentine]

Are Stargate's ratings good for basic cable, or good for any show? How do they compare to FF's?

Ben Varkentine



Sig quote pulled for research and development

[BBOvenGuy]

The article said that SG-1 is getting about 1.3 million viewers, which is double what the show got on Showtime and higher than any show in the SciFi Channel's history, including Sliders and Farscape. So it's well below what Firefly has been getting. Success is relative.



So maybe that's what Joss needs - a trip to cable-land. That's if he's going to pursue his "vision" without caring how big his audience is.

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"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

[disey6821]

Italiangirl,



Hey, I read your post and it got me thinking about Harley. I honestly think that she doesn't know about the Huntress or Oracle right now. I think she may know that Batgirl (Barbara Gordon) got shot and probably thinks maybe she left town or died. Even if she was involved with the Joker romantically do you think he would share information with her regarding what would be his "business-Batman, Catwoman and Batgirl"? I really don't believe she knows about the Huntress because she's never seen her out in Huntress mode in Gotham city at night. Harley is the type of woman who doesn't want to get her hands dirty, if you notice she always has someone doing her dirty work for her. I'm sure as episodes progress at some point she'll catch on about Helena and Barbara or maybe one or the other. I can't see the show going on for very long and her being that clueless.



Oooh, if you are into spoilers check out the comicscontinuum webpage there is an upcoming episode with Batgirl that i'm sure you'll be interested in.



diana

[BBOvenGuy]

Last night was one of those times when Charmed decided to play for real. Not because Phoebe and Paige got killed - that happens all the time. You aren't really a Charmed One unless you've died and/or turned evil, after all.



It was Phoebe's new boyfriend Miles, and the fact that they had to let him die. Charmed has done that a few times - given the witches an innocent that they couldn't save. It always feels more meaningful than all the blood and gore that Buffy has given us over the past couple of years.

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

[seurat]

Yeah, I have to agree that Harley doesn't know the identities of Huntress and Oracle, mainly because it would tend to finish the Harley storyline too quickly and they want to keep her around. If Harley knew about them she'd be sending everything she could to destroy them as painfully as possible. She's all about the killing, after all. She knows there's somebody out there messing up her plans, but they'll take their time letting her get all the details. Probably at the end of season one, provided there's going to be a season two. Or a rest of season one for that matter, I haven't heard how the ratings were last week.

As for Charmed, I did watch it last night for the first time in a while and it was pretty solid. I guess I'll have to watch it again and see how it holds up. Anyone have any comments to make on The West Wing? I'm alternately torn between loving it and wanting to throw something at the screen these days. Maybe it's just me, being cranky and all.

[Italiangirl]

Disey6821,



I see where you're coming from, and I agree that Joker probably wouldn't discuss "business" with Harley. However, I have heard several theories that within the canon of the show only, Harley's whole entire relationship with Joker may be one big psychotic delusion. If that is the case, I would think Harley, who is not stupid by a long shot, would do some serious research into the crimes of Joker, being that she is such an admirer of him. Actually, even if the relationship is not a delusion, I still think, because she is all about emulating him and finishing his "work" [destroying New Gotham] that she would study his crimes and know all about all of his destructive acts. The fact that he orchestrated attacks against Barbara Gordon and Selina Kyle would be a matter of public record. Therefore, once again, two and two together.



Also, Seurat, I agree that perhaps letting the audience know that Harley knows about them too soon would lead to shoddy storytelling and a premature climax (think Charmed Season 3). We'll have to see how it plays out.



Regarding the show in general, I am really starting to like it. I'm not nearly at the obsession point yet, as I am with both Buffy and Gilmore Girls, but I find myself warming to the characters and the series. I think the major mistake WB made was to choose the episode they did as the pilot. I think because we knew nothing of the characters and were not invested, telling such an emotional story about the characters was off putting. Helena came off as self-centered and whiny, the chemistry was not believable between the cast, and the pace was too slow. I think if they had used the plot of Slick for the pilot, the show would have done better with the ratings and kept more viewers.



Finally, as a somewhat shallow aside...I have been rather put off myself by the Huntress character. I think she comes off as being too severe...in a way that translates less as toughness and more as "chip on the shoulder." I also do not find the way her character is made up to be attractive...her look is overdone. Shallow, I can't help it. Anyway, I was poking around at IMDB and I found her photo gallery there, and I must say that IRL Ashley Scott is quite beautiful. She looks softer and more natural and real. Particularly in the pics from the Van Wilder premiere, and the ones from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, in which she has longer blonde hair (her natural color). She looks lovely, and I recommend checking the pictures out. The link is: us.imdb.com/PGallery?Scot...ce=granitz

[BBOvenGuy]

Well, I didn't get to see the Charmed location shoot this past weekend. It was raining, which probably means they scrubbed it.



There's a new Charmed shoot on the schedule for next Tuesday (11/19). They've got several miles of road staked out, centering on the intersection of Independence Ave and Kittridge St in Woodland Hills. It's supposed to be going on all day. Maybe I'll check it out.

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

[yaya]

hmm, sounds kind of like when Willow couldn't save Tara...i guess Buffy is the only show where they're not allowed to kill characters huh?

[BBOvenGuy]

So last night Gilmore Girls finally pulled the trigger, breaking up Rory and Dean so they could get Rory and Jess together. I can already tell that it's not going to work, though. Just the body language between them in the trailer for next week tells me it's not going to work. It could be very interesting watching it not work. At least I know that neither of them will die and/or turn evil.



Funniest moment of the episode for me - when they're doing that thing where they have to run around the gym, and Lorelai notices that Kirk and his dance partner are running along right on their heels. "I'm drafting you!" Kirk explains. As an auto racing fan, I apprecated that.

------------------------------------------------
"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

[Wiccagrrl313]

Yep, last night's GG was really good. The Dean/Rory/Jess stuff was good. And it should be really interesting to see Loralei's reaction and what that does to her relationship with Luke.



Oh, and loved Lane's guy meeting Mama. Boy, did he play her well

Tracy

******************


VILLOV

I troost yuu. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!

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Tara. Accept No Substitutes.

[slowontheuptake]

I love Lane's new guy. That was the best part for me. Watching him get on MamaLane's good side was great.



Finally Dean breaks up with Rory. I realy felt sorry for him and that poor slutty girl Jess casualy went to break it off with. She was a prop and he treated her as such and it's sad that Rory didn't even seem to care.



I'm almost positive Rory/Jess will go down in flames. Niether one has thought far enough ahead to actually being in a relationship. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens.



I love Luke. I've watched going on three year as he's been Lorilie's love struck puppy and her perfect guy. Either she is completly oblivious or is afraid to have a comfortable, long lasting relationship. Sometimes I think it's the latter.

[sam7777]

Yeah Gilmore Girls was fantastic. I have digital cable and can only record one show at a time unless I wire it up specially. No problem on 8pm Tuesdays. The only other show besides Gilmore Girls that I would watch is Jag (yeah guilty pleasure) but that's so syndicated that it's not hard to get my Jag fix. I'm late on this but Bird's of Prey is great too! I've missed having female action heroes on TV. It's great to see strong women. They have problems but are strong enough and have enough self worth to get out of them without demeaning themselves. They are great role models for girls. Plus it's fun to see women kick @ss. I haven't had this much fun since Xena's glory days.

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Garner]

I have not watched Gillmore Girls before and gave it a try last night while doing dishes mostly because only WB and Fox come in clearly. So who were the two women dancing together and why were they doing that? Overall it is not my style. I prefer JAG which I tape and watch with others later in the night, but at least that's still not Buffy! (I do watch Smallville later as well)



Bob, I love Charmed this season and last too. Before it was sort of like a throwaway show the roommate liked but which I couldn't get into. Since adding Rose McGowan and the character of Cole I have been more and more impressed with it. The magic is handled much better than Buffy, by far. I like the way the powers are kept mostly consistent and are not ignored or overlooked because they would solve things too easily. I also really liked the romance angle between Phoebe and Cole, though right now I think Phoebe is being a bit irrational in her refusal to accept Cole. At least I always get some entertainment and interesting plot without the terrible angsty inner-demon pain and misery crap that Buffy has turned to. Charmed may have been Buffy lite before, but now it is a much more enjoyable and watchable show with better characters, greater consistency and that says a lot about how far it has risen and Buffy fallen.



Garner

[Wiccagrrl313]

The two women dancing together are the main characters, Loralei and Rory Gilmore. Mother and daughter. They were dancing together because the town was hosting a 24-hour dance marathon, and Loralei (the mother) asked Rory to be her partner.

Tracy

******************


VILLOV

I troost yuu. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!

*******************

Tara. Accept No Substitutes.

[seurat]

Another really fine episode of GG, despite the fact that I thought the 24-hour dance marathon was a tired idea. They pulled it off though, and there were tons of highlights both funny and sad. A lot of my favorite bits were with the secondary characters, which I think is a sign of a very strong show, where the writing and acting is topnotch right through the cast. As a Paris and Madeline fan I loved their scenes, esp. the 'why isn't the 74 anniversary edition just as special" and Madeline/louise's search for dates, any dates it seems, when they realize they have a free Saturday night ("There's two over here!"). I didn't get the reference to pirates by Paris though, perhaps because when I hear about pirates now I immediately think of a certain kitten's obsession with lady pirates. I agree that the Rory/Jess thing won't last and that's a good point about the callous way he treated his girlfriend, Rory will eventually see that side of him. So, overall lots of good stuff and an episode worth watching again. And now I can go see the new Birds Of Prey! Ain't life grand?

[BBOvenGuy]

I sometimes think that maybe Luke likes the way things are between him and Lorelai. There are some lines that weren't meant to be crossed, as I suspect Rory and Jess are about to find out.



I mean, remember Lorelai's dream at the opening of the season premiere? Didn't it just look wrong to see her and Luke there being all domestic? I'm not sure Luke would be Luke any more.



Okay, okay, so maybe I'm projecting some of my own problems, but there you go...

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"A man who fails well is greater than one who succeeds badly. - Thomas Merton

[Kalita]

Just a quick note on this week's ep: watch for Helena being called 'Miss Kitty' at one point.



Heh.

"...you can make those two characters as dewey-eyed in love and it would never be too much."

-Chris Golden, on W/T

[disey6821]

I just got home from seeing Igby goes down and only caught the last few minutes of tonight's episode of BOP. I did catch the scene between Harley and the Huntress though.



O.k. Italiangirl, i may be swaying away a little from what i said earlier about Harley not knowing who Huntress is. When she said she would always have her and that look she gave her was kinda like a either I know who you really are or I know you're hiding something from me and i'm just biding my time to get you to trust me and open up to me more. I think Harley is someone who definitely has patience and will strike against the BOP when she's ready if she knows something and we just don't know what yet or like i said about she may believe that Huntress is hiding something and again trying to gain her trust and possibly get into a postion to manipulate her or take advantage of her?



So, how was tonight's episode guys? did i miss anything good?





diana

[Italiangirl]

Seurat, Disey, Harley definately looked as though she caught an inkling this week. Maybe it was the deal with Reese the cop... Harley commented that Helena worked things out with the cop or something. Big crime gang the animals had captured Reese...surely SURELY Harley figured it out. We didn't see it, but the head animal guy would have had to explain to Harley that their "insider" had been on the ins with a cop, therefore couldn't/shouldn't meet with the "Boss" like Harley wanted.



Even if she didn't connect it yet, I think that tonight at least seeds were definately planted in Harley's mind that something suspicious is going on in Helena's life. Harley is clearly trying to separate Helena from the people she loves/confides in, and brainwash her with the whole "the only person you can count on is you..." party line. Maybe Harley knows that Helena is the daughter of Selina Kyle/Catwoman/Batman after all, and instead of trying to kill her Harley is trying to mold her into a protege, to be the evil equivalent of Dick Grayson/Robin. After all...what sweet revenge [if you're a bad guy] would that be to turn Batman's only daughter into a force of evil whose badness rivalled if not surpassed his level of good. Hmmmm...food for thought.



As for the ovearll episode, I think this show just gets better and better. This ep did a nice job showing some of the issues specific to each character MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the series pilot, which IMHO had tried and failed doing that very thing. I liked the Barbara romance conflict...I liked that Barbara was turned off when he said looking at her just made him want to take care of her. Yay feminist heroines who don't need or WANT to be "taken care of" by men, and are instead about taking care of themselves. As an aside, does anyone else think this guy is like Mr. Cardboard? IMHO, he has the personality of a shoestring, and Barbara could do way better.



For the Dinah story arc, I'm glad that Dinah has been objective and interested in taking care of herself in this whole Black Canary/long lost mom arc. I thought last week it would have been too sacchrine if Black Canary returned and Dinah was all "Oh mom I missed you so much and I luuuuuve you!" I'm also glad the show didn't let Canary's big "I love you and I'm so proud of you" dying breath speech ease Dinah's confusion. This week she was still conflicted and had not yet come to terms with the return of her mom as related to the abandonment issues, let alone the death issues. I thought the writers brought this out really well in the dialogue between Helena and Dinah at the end, even if the actresses still don't have great chemistry together. Dinah's arc is becoming more and more complex, and I'm glad the writers are treating it as such, instead of glossing over it or ignoring it... Skarsegard's acting was a leeeeetle forced in spots, but she is showing a wide range of grief stages, and I applaud the show for that, UNLIKE some other shows we know. One more thing, I'm glad that we are seeing more of Dinah's character training with both Barbara and Helena, and I'm glad that her character is starting to KICK ASS! I'm not sure if her fighting skills would really be as good as they were tonight in such a short time, but I think this is much better than the weeks she spent destroying the clocktower with the birdarangs.



Regarding Helena...I thought this week really excellently demonstrated the conflict she feels within herself and exactly why she has the "poor superhero me" thing going on. Showing her feeling conflicted about the gang and about catwoman was a nice job of "showing but not telling," which is exactly what went wrong with the pilot. I'm starting to like Helena more, and I'm glad about it. Also, Ashley Scott has a tendency to overact, and she seems to be toning it down. Yay for toning it down!



Overall, a good ep. The only major criticism I have is the editing cuts...some of the scenes did not really make sense in the beginning, and I thought the way they were edited and then cut away from so abrubtly made them not so believable. In both the scene with Huntress talking to Reese about kicking it up a notch, and then the sex/morning after scene with Barbara, each time I thought it was the character imagining the events. Oh, and one more thing...did Barbara go back to HIS place? Because I KNOW she would not take Mr. Cardboard back to the secret lair....I'm nitpicking, I know. I just can't get past that whole continuity thing...silly me.

Edited by: Italiangirl  at: 11/13/02 7:33:07 pm

[disey6821]

Italiangirl,



OMG! when is was talking about Harley trying to possibly gain Helena's trust to maybe manipulate her, in my mind i kept thinking that the more time she spends with her and becomes close to her the more i could see her trying to lure Helena to her darkness! so yeah, agree on force of evil and like your idea of turning her into a protege not unlike that of her father's relationship with Dick; Batman/Robin.



o.k. so i really can't comment more on the episode as i didn't get to see anything other than the last what 10 min and didn't remember to tape it so i'll have to play catch up with this one at a later date.



So, Barbara slept with what's her semi-boyfriend? hmmmm, she's so beautiful.... (dreamily zones out for a sec.)

yeah, I like the Mr. Cardboard nickname, definitely suits the guy. i never remember his name. I could see Barbara with someone a little more adventurous but the whole wheelchair issue could then become well, an issue.



Not to give away too much of a spoiler but there's an upcoming episode where we'll get to see Batgirl again.



ugh, well it's late and i have to work early tomorrow so everyone, have a good night!!!!



diana

[seurat]

Ok, Italiangirl, after watching last night i'm a little more convinced that Harley knows some specifics about our heroines. If she doesn't know about Huntress yet she soon will because the leader of the Animal gang will blab to her from prison first chance he gets. So she will know what Huntress looks like, and that she's working with Reese and has Dinah helping her, altho she won't know who Dinah is or her powers. She may know something about Batgirl too, but not about Oracle. At any rate, I hope they don't move this forward too fast, it's more fun if they build to the Big Bad confrontation slowly.

I really liked this episode, not too sure about Oracle's boyfriend but I guess he's going to be around for a while now so i'll get used to him. Dinah's coming along, i'd like to see more of her powers developing but they'll get to that. And I love Huntress, and the fact that milk is apparently her beverage of choice. And she may well be conflicted between her good/evil side, but I don't think we have to worry too much about which side she'll choose.

Finally, all Avril Lavigne fans should know she's going to on the WB's Sabrina on friday night. Should be worth a look.

[DestruktorMel]

Haven't commented on GG in a while, so I just thought I'd say how much I loved the Dance Marathon. One word: Paris! I've mentioned before how much I love her, and it was just great to finally have her back. I loved how she gave Madeline and Louise a time limit on kissing their dates. She's just too funny.



I thought it was just perfect how Dave handled Mrs. Kim. Just the right amount of charm. I think Jackson had the best lines though, especially when they were all running around the gym. It was just a great episode. Except...poor Rory. I really don't like Jess, and I don't see things ending well between them. And poor, poor Dean. He is so in love with Rory, it must have killed him knowing the truth, while trying to ignore it.



And no, I am sorry. I saw the look between Luke and Lorelai, and I say no! No! I don't know if I am in the minority or what, but I love Christopher. And I love him and Lorelai together. And I really want them to end up together. On the bright side, looks like next week, the whole Yale thing is finally brought up. I have a feeling they'll keep us waiting all season to tell us where Rory will be going but...well...something tells me it won't be 2.7 miles away from Sherry .

[roamin]

mini rant here:



Last night I sat down, with a nice cup of tea all ready to kick back, relax and watch my tape of Gillmore Girls ...... only to find that I had accidently taped Buffy instead. To say I was annoyed is an understatement. GG has come to be my "happy, escape time" I love it and have no desire to watch old doom and gloom Buffy. argggg I want my Gilmore Girls!

[Warduke]

Please keep all Buffy S7 talk to the S7 forum.

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