MTV VMAs

[Yelowsub]

I just finished watching the opening act of the VMAs with Madonna, Britney Spears, Cristrina Aguilara and Missy Elliott.



I think that I need a cold shower now.



I had heard about them performing from an online column. But I never pictured it turning into that. I will just admit that I enjoyed it immensly.



Anyone have any comments about the show that they would like to share?

Edited by: Yelowsub at: 8/28/03 5:26 pm

[TyRex316]

FYI: tvfilmgirl.com already has pics up.

[xita]

wow, i didn't think these things could make me do that, certainly not madonna but wow, all 4 of them and so much lesbiosity! Gosh.. my only complaint is that they kept showing people in the audience instead of.. dude they missed the madonna/christina kiss.

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"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Big Dummy]

I mean...whoa. That whole performance was like...whoa. I'm no huge fan of any of those women, but how cool was it to have an icon like Madonna taking those two girls (er...women) under her "wing". I think they're both ready for the Big Time now.



And dude, did you see the look on JT's face? Cry me a river indeed.

[Warduke]

What can I say? Madonna is still the master

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Lil' Trevor : Always the life of the party.

[xita]

that's exactly it, i am no real fan of either of them but madonna took them to school, here's how you scandalize!

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"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[foreverpiper]

i wish i coulda seen my face when Madonna planted the smooch on brittney...i swear i could feel my jaw drop...my mother sitting next to me muttering comments under her breath about music going to hell wasn't much help either but i must say, this years video awards wasn't everything i'd hoped it be...probably because i'm not into the rap scene much and most of it r and b or rap so...*shrugs* i wish i could have seen Evanescence preform, but alas, i had to settle with them giving out an award. during the middle of the show i have to say i got kind of bored, so i spent the rest of my night watching "queer eye for the straight guy" which, interestingly enough, turned out to be quite a watch

Galahad: What a strange person. French Dude: I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of elderberries. Galahad: Is there someone else up their we could talk to? French Dude: No, now go away or I shall taunt you a second time. - Monty Python

[Cicca]

Daaaaaaaaaaaamn, I wish I'd seen this!

Madonna can teach all those young things a few lessons. Oh yes!

“Spirit of Sappho, ... I summon you. Come fill me with your big, dykey power!” ~ Final Exam by Tommo

[Alia16]

hehe justin timberlakes reaction was priceless!!

I've been tripping from sipping the dripping dirty water tap.

[SJ]

We don't get to see the MTV VMAs until tomorrow night here in the UK but the breakfast tv programme(GMTV) have been showing the Britney,Madonna,Christina kiss all morning

[sprhrgrl]

(cackle) All I knew about the show is that Simple Plan was doing their song Addicted. I retained that bit of information because one of my tiny friends did the song for a drag routine.



"I'm a dick, I'm addicted. . ."



ETA - that was actually http://www.tvandfilmgrrl.com/ that has 'em up. . . And they thank Eek, I see?

sprhrgrl.com

she's my everything

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara

The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off. - Gloria Steinem

Edited by: sprhrgrl  at: 8/29/03 1:21 am

[sam7777]

The CNN commentators had some remarks on the Madonna kissage. The female reporter thought it was too much for primetime when kids are watching while the male reporters all thought it was really sexy and titillating. It' never ceases to amaze me that violence is ok for kids but kissing btw 2 women is so bad. The CNN reaction really degraded from there with the female reporter saying she didnt want to have to kiss a woman to get attention while the guys said that they would pay to see it. For my part, I'm sure it was really hot but since none of the women who kissed in Madonna's performace are lesbians, it doen't mean much to me. I see it as a way to get attention rather than an act of love or even desire. It's especially titillating to guys since they know that Madonna, Britney Spears and Cristrina Aguilara are not gay and this leaves the possibility open for a guy to join in. Personally I'd rather see Rosie O'Donnell and her partner kiss in public. That would mean more to me in terms of lesbian sexiness than Madonna's publicity stunt.



Xita: I guess I just want something more than campy fun. It seems we can't have lesbian visibility without male titillation. I don't agree on Madonna. She's a businesswoman co-opting the symbols of other groups to sell her product IMHO.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 8/29/03 12:12 pm

[xita]

I would agree with you about Christina and Britney but I would hardly say Madonna is straight and while she does do things for publicity, she's also does it to expose people to sexuality period. So, I certainly have no issue with her doing that. And yeah the media is being gross about it, but it's tons of campy fun and sometimes that has its place. I think in the end it pay off that a lot of young people see that their heros don't have issues with that.



Actually now that I think about it, Christina's video for beautiful is beautiful in its portrayal of 2 men kissing. So, I am not sure that as individuals they are so unattached to the idea of gay visibility and gay rights.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Puff]

I saw the photo's of this but missed the show. Does anyone have a clip to download of this or know it is going to be reaired? Thanks



And yes Xita you are right Beautiful does have two guys kissing.

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So, the day started and I knew my name and had my pants on. So far, so good. Yay.
Amber Benson

[urnofosiris]

I wish I had seen this. I heard about them going to perform together, but I forgot and I certainly did not expect this, heh. I think it is great, they are all adults, they aren't pretending to be anything they are not (unlike some other singers *cough*tatu*cough*). I rather see high profile straight (or almost straight) women kissing each other and show that it is ok, than to have some high profile singer make homophobic comments or watch a so called lesbian character turn straight for mr right. If Madonna, Christina and Britney had been 100% total and complete lesbians, that still would not have stopped some guys from being titillated and dreaming about joining in.

Quote:

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Actually now that I think about it, Christina's video for beautiful is beautiful in its portrayal of 2 men kissing. So, I am not sure that as individuals they are so unattached to the idea of gay visibility and gay rights.

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That's a good point. I only saw that clip once, because I rarely watch music channels these days, but it really awed me. The lyrics and those images really were beautiful in every single way. If there were more examples like that, then maybe one day those uptight holier than thou commentators would not be so shocked anymore by people daring to engage in open displays of same sex contact.



I like Madonna, always have, always will. I cannot look into her heart, but somehow I can't believe that her gay fans or gay images are just another meal ticket to her. Just maybe she really is an artist who cares about how her works affects people.

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She's so anally retentive she wouldn't sit down for fear of sucking up the furniture.

--Patsy Stone

Edited by: DrG at: 8/29/03 3:25 pm

[BytrSuite]

britneyspears.org has the performance up.



You can find it here, www.britneyspears.org/media/

________
"Oh, good! I was hoping to add theft, endangerment and insanity to my list of things I did today."
"Ah! You, too?"
(Stitch laughs delightedly)

[dekalog]

Madonna has always been good to the gay and lesbian community. When I was younger and worked in a bar (many moons ago) when she came to town she donated a whole pile of stuff for an auction to go to the AIDS hospice in town, and this was before it was trendy to do so.



The thing that bugs me most about this is how everyone thinks it's such a big deal that they kissed - I mean - hello Madonna herself has done this many many many times before. The fact that it got front page coverage in a lot of papers, and is huge news about how controversial and shocking it is - just makes me more glad they did it.



If women kissing each other (especially in the context of an act) is that 'WOW' for them I fell really sorry for them actually - they must lead boring petty little lives.



I find it truly sad (as said above) that sexuality scares and offends us here in North America more than violence. I long for the day that who you kiss or fuck or make love to ...etal. isn't an issue, and instead how we treat other people is.

[urnofosiris]

Thanks Kathy. I just watched it. That was wonderful. Madonna reminded me of Marlene Dietrich for a bit there. She looked stunning, and Christina should never go back to blond.

I thought all three of them did a great job. I must say I found the dancing far sexier than the 0.5 second smooch. I was expecting something more after the hoopla the press made of it. Those kisses were so brief I doubt anyone would have the time to be titillated, hee.

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She's so anally retentive she wouldn't sit down for fear of sucking up the furniture.

--Patsy Stone

[maudmac]

Madonna's done more than a whole lot of people (who could have, incidentally, but chose not to) to put the message out there that there is nothing wrong with the normal range of human sexuality. I don't believe Madonna is all that straight, actually, but I care not. If she were the most heterosexual woman on Earth, that does nothing, as far as I'm concerned, to change the message she's spent a large part of her career sending. Yes, she's a shrewd businessperson, but she's offered up enough heteroeroticism to allay all my concerns that she seeks to exploit homosexuality for her own gain.



And, not only does Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful" video feature multiple scenes between two men, it also features a man dressing up as a woman, underscored by the repeated message that we are all beautiful and words can't hurt us.



I don't really know anything about Britney Spears, but the message she sent to me was that there's nothing wrong with two women kissing, and that she's comfortable with human sexuality.



I have no doubt that there's some little closeted babydyke out there right now all giddy and unable to wipe the smile off her face and, because I know exactly what it's like to not have that feeling, I am glad for her and send kudos to Madonna, Britney, and Christina.



Since other things actually did happen at the VMAs besides The Kisses, I have to say - How fucking awesome is Missy Elliott?!? God, I love her.

---

Walking in space we find the purpose of peace. The beauty of life you can no longer hide.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open. Our eyes are open, our eyes are open wide, wide, wide. -- Walking In Space

[SlayerSydney]

Damn. I can't believe it's 7:30pm(est) and I am just now finding out about this. But, that's why I come to the Kitten, to stay informed.



I downloaded the clip and LOL.



I have this huge shit eating grin on my face now. Damn I love Madonna. I agree that she still certainly knows how to create a controversy. Good for her I say. And I like the fact that it happened. It's just one more exposure to the mainstream that, "Hey, if you feel like kissing another girl, then more power to you." I wish we would see more Hollywood couples being more open in public, but until then, I'll take what I can get. I have always loved Madonna for her expressiveness and ability to "bring it" to the media. And I like the fact that two younger stars aren't afraid to follow in her footsteps with it.



To me it was a statement. I've probably read way more into it than necessary, so I won't share all of my thoughts. However, I will stress once again that I love Madonna and I think what she did totally rocked.

[sam7777]

In Lisa Rosen's article "The Kiss That Isn't Just a Kiss" (LA Times, May 11), she says: "For some sex is fine, but love is controversial". We see alot of the sex but I'd also like to see love and relationships like we had with W/T. Madonna certainly has done alot for the gay community but this still does not lead me to think that her number on MTV was not a publicity stunt. I don't think Madonna is trying to hurt or use her gay fans but I do think that she is co-opting their symbols to get attention and riding the current "gay wave". She did something similar in "Like a Prayer" with religous symbols. She wasn't trying to diss the church but she was using their symbols to get attention. Madonna is a brilliant business woman and self promoter and I certainly think any girl can look up to her as a role model.



That said. I'd still rather see, for example, Rosie O'Donnell and her partner have a public kiss as two women who are lesbians and are kissing because they love each other. I think that this would do more to help the cause of PDA's for gays than Madonna kissing two other straight girls. The Madonna thing can be seen as non-threatening by straights since 2 of the 3 are not gay. I'm certain the 2 guys kissing in Cristina's video were very asthetically beautiful but I'd rather see two average looking gay guys kissing and holding hands while being interviewed in a news story as straights do. Two actual gays kissing is more offensive to the public at large than the fantasy of Madonna, Britney and Cristrina kissing since we know they aren't having a relationship and it's just part of the show.



Dilbert had a cartoon about PDA's. The first panel says there are no limits to PDA's among the beautiful because it makes people hot. Average looking people should tone it down and the ugly should not attempt it at all. Beautiful people like Madonna, Britney Spears and Cristrina Aguilara can pretty much do anything they want because it makes people hot. I want to see the world safe for PDA's among normal people. Certainly, young people can take heart from seeing this image of themselves but really how many of them look like Madonna, Britney or Cristrina and can relate to them? Gay images are being show but not actual gay intimacy (love, regard, like). As long as it hits the front page savvy promoters will use the gay images but I just want more than the surface. Well I'm an army of one here so I'll stop. Just my 2 cents.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[maudmac]

No, you know, I really don't think you're alone, sam. I hear what you're saying and I don't disagree. Would be nice if 10 percent of all relationships shown on television were same-sex. Be nice to see all of us portrayed fairly and accurately and in proper proportions. I want a show about average-looking lesbians waiting on tables and living in trailers, because that's the reality for a lot of the lesbians I know personally.



This VMA thing just doesn't get me all wound up about those things, though, probably because it just seemed really playful and positive, as opposed to some certain events on some certain TV show I won't name, but which we all know about.



An aside, just my two cents here, but I actually don't find Madonna, Britney, or Christina all that attractive. (Probably in the minority, I know. ) They're okay, but they don't really do it for me. I just had to say that.

---

Walking in space we find the purpose of peace. The beauty of life you can no longer hide.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open. Our eyes are open, our eyes are open wide, wide, wide. -- Walking In Space

[Yelowsub]

This thread really demonstarates why I love the Kitten so much. To see some many different views on one event.



Everyone on this board is so different and I love to see views on events that I had never even thought of having before.

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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I want to see the world safe for PDA's among normal people. Certainly, young people can take heart from seeing this image of themselves but really how many of them look like Madonna, Britney or Cristrina and can relate to them?

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By normal I take it you mean non-famous people. I still cannot see what happened here as anything but positive. The world in general is not safe for PDA's between people of the same sex (among other things), but how is that ever going to change if the people who fear to show those PDA's or the ones who oppose them do not see at a regular basis that it is ok? Where to begin? If Madonna does not do it, then who will? Someone has to start and I don't care whether they are LGBT or straight.



I do not know what an average gay guy looks like, the ones I have met so far pretty much looked like the guys from that video, beautiful that is, but whether or not they are too pretty to be 'realistic' does not negate the fact that hundreds of thousands of (mostly) teenagers have watched that clip, sung by a woman they are a fan of, maybe look up to, and she is telling them it is beautiful, that it is ok. It's a step forward and to not give it it's credit due seems unfair to me. If that clip had ended with those guys getting the crap beaten out of them then that would have changed things, but this was all positive.



Willow and Tara are two young beautiful white gay women, those guys in that video are two young beautiful white gay men, Maddona, Christina and Britney are beautiful, not gay, famous women. None of them look anything like me (lucky them), but I can still relate to them, it means something to me, it would take me too long to explain, but it is something good and I am thankful. Of course I wish for more, but maybe with more people (like Madonna) willing to do something, anything to show being gay is perfectly ok, to show it in a positive way, there may come a time where we won't be having these discussions anymore.



I really believe it takes the help of straight men and women, famous or not, to get there. To get to a point where I won't be uptight about my history, where my gay friends can suck face in public just like my straight ones, where -if we want to- we can all get married to the person we love. If Madonna, Christina and Britney show they don't have a problem with homosexuality, then maybe in future their gay counterparts won't have a problem coming out (literally and figuratively speaking) on stage either. Amber and Aly are straight women and I am happy everytime I read an interview in which they support WT or where they say kissing each other is no big deal or actually a very nice experience. Are they teasing the straight boys and their gay fans? Maybe just a little at times, but that is ok too. They are all helping give lesbians and gays some positive visibility and I am glad about that, even if it leaves me wishing for more.

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She's so anally retentive she wouldn't sit down for fear of sucking up the furniture.

--Patsy Stone

Edited by: DrG at: 8/30/03 2:32 am

[sprhrgrl]

We had a Christina song as our theme for San Diego Youth Pride - I think it was Stronger, but it might have been Beautiful or I don't know. But it was good. One of the young queens performed it and a lot of the kids could related to it and get support of it. Just how Le Tigre and the like have kept me alive, these more mainstream artists have the power to connect to and help a lot of people. If Madonna and Britney can kiss, it's not really as bad as anyone (the church, their family, whatever negative force in a kid's life) says, is it?

sprhrgrl.com

she's my everything

Sweetie, I'm a fag. I been there. - Tara

The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off. - Gloria Steinem

[cassiopeia191]

Am I the only person who thought that the VMAs (apart from The Kiss) were exceptionally lame and predictable? Beyoncé doing a really uninspired playback routine onstage (it really works better for her in the video)...not exactly a highlight. Plus, the nominated videos seemed to be almost the same in every category, which really took the fun out of the whole ordeal. Oh, what a surprise, Justin Timberlake won, great, I'm astonished by this unexpected turn of events. Squeal.

Anyway, I think that they need a little more substance to build a show on.

"i can't believe you're leaving me because me and charles manson like the same ice cream" ~tori amos

Edited by: cassiopeia191 at: 8/30/03 7:52 am

[xita]

Oh yeah the rest of the awards were very dumb, then again I don't listen to young people's music anymore



And yeah to go back to that issue, yeah I think they are separate issues, I am certainly not going to argue about seeing more average people on screen. That is why I love independent and foreign films. I think they do a better job at that. And I am off to recommend a couple of films in the recommendation thread for those looking for that.



For me though, the kissing wasn't harming anyone and I know things like that would give me a thrill and make things a little bit better when I was younger and I can't really complain about that.

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"Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose."

-Me & Bobby
McGee

[Big Dummy]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and express an opinion that is neither politically correct nor in the majority. Apologies ahead of time if anyone takes this personally. I mean no harm.



One of the things that made me the happiest about the kiss was that it did included people that are, well, hot. Not that I think Madonna is really that hate, nor Xtina with that hair, but Britney is sort've not your average-looking woman, IMO. The point, though, is that I go to Pride festivals or to gay bars, and I see regular, non-glamourous, non-Hollywood-stylie women PDA-ing their hearts out. I watch a lesbian-themed movie (be it low or high-budget), and usually the cast consists of women who could've been at the bar I just left. It's a thrill for me to see, well, for lack of a better way to put it, Hollywood-looking women PDA-ing, as in the case of Britney and Christina. I like Hollywood to do what it was created to do, which is to take me out of the norm of my life and give me something to "ooh' and "aah" about. I think they did that.



That said, I also don't think it was a publicity stunt. Yeah, Madonna's proven herself to be a shrewd business woman over the years, but I think this was almost like her thumbing her nose and saying "nyah, nyah, I've got your pop princesses". I think it was campy and fun, not political really. And within the context of the song "Like A Virgin", what an image. These two teeny-pop stars really doing something daring and different, since getting half-nude in your videos and writhing around is kinda old. I mean, they're icons for teenage girls, and they just kissed another woman in front of millions of viewers. I say bravo for a daring move! It could literally make or break their connection with their (mainly) young fans.

[Willow wtch]

Also, we could see the MTV VMAs live all around the world. In South America we don't get all the gay movies and series you get up there or in Europe... and if we do, they cut the best parts. So we have like... nothing, now there`s no more Willow and Tara... So this was something!



And I don´t know if Madonna did this for publicity or what, I just don´t care. It was great. She keeps doing whatever she wants on stage... and she seemed to enjoy those kisses... and that smirky face when she came out from the huge cake was just (LOL - in spanish cake means "torta" and that´s the name they give lesbians here... so they are all making jokes about them coming out of huge torta).

[June Leigh]

I'll express the unpopular opinion. I wasn't shocked or titillated by the Madonna/Britney/Christina kisses because it was so obviously calculated for maximum media attention. In fact, it made me angry. To see these pop princesses use faux lesbianism to further their careers by pandering towards the male gaze was low. There was nothing subversive or liberatory about it. Of course, this is typical of Madonna, who made a career of appropriating aspects of minority cultures for monetary gain. Absorbing everything but the burden indeed.