I learned it all from Documentaries

[Gatito Grande]

I seriously love documentaries (of the TV variety): I have since I was a little kid watching PBS.



I love history documentaries. I love science documentaries. And I especially love "human interest" documentaries: psychological or sociological studies of the ceaselessly interesting human animal.



One of my favorite channels for the above, is the Discovery Health Channel. Tonight they had a couple of really interesting ones called "Reconcilable Differences." In the first ep, a woman got together w/ her ex-husband . . . who is now a woman. Debra (the MTF), was trying to seek forgiveness and closure on their past relationship, while Antoinette, the ex (woman-born) wife, wanted to confront "David" (now Debra) w/ her anger. But they were able to come to a reconciliation: to begin again as friends (they each had new romantic partners---getting back together wasn't an issue).



Here's a link to an ep description: health.discovery.com/sche...7490&gid=0



In the second ep, there were two stories: in the first, two young women, former best friends, were trying to see if they could repair their friendship (which had fallen apart amidst jealousy and competing for men ). They didn't (the initiator was still doing the competitive thang: I think she initiated the meeting mainly to show her ex-bestfriend how much weight she'd lost ).



In the second story, two lesbian former lovers were coming together, again w/ the "seeking closure" goal. It was a bunch of complicated dyke drama, which I can't really encapsulate, but it included charges of cheating. The issue at the root of it all, was that the initiator was raised conservative Christian, and has had trouble accepting her sexuality, and her family's lack of support. At the end, however, they were able to achieve some kind of reconciliation, as friends (interestingly, the initiator had moved on to another partner, though her ex either hadn't---or at least it wasn't mentioned).



And here's the link for this ep: health.discovery.com/sche...7490&gid=0





Anyway, good stuff: as someone who's been through failed reconciliation attempts myself, it's interesting to look at someone elses (Every time someone said "Yes, but . . ." I wanted to reach in and throttle 'em! )



GG At the end of the show, I was pleased to see the formerly conservative Christian lesbian at a gay pride march, cheering the Episcopal float therein! Out



Looking forward to hearing about other documentaries (which can include movies, too) that Kittens find enlightening.

[urnofosiris]

I get three documentary channels: The Discovery Channel, National Geographic and Animal Planet. Discovery is my favourite and it has a nice variety of topics. My favourites topics are the freaky medical ones and natural disasters. The forces of nature are so humbling and awesome. My favourite National Geographic program has got to be the Mummy roadshow, fascinating stuff. I also enjoy historical documentaries and the ones about extreme enginering. In fact, I think the fishing and car racing documentaries are the only ones I avoid like the plague.

[skittles]

Documentaries... oh, yes...



**History, but not the war/violent stuff. Archeology, important people (non-celeb)

**Animals & how the different species & breeds evolved.

**Most medical documentaries... yes, I can watch operations

**Travel Documentaries.

**Interesting or unusual.. how many of you saw the Nova documentary about New York's Water System?? All the tunnels & where it comes from AND where it goes after it is used... **eewww** I think I still have that on tape somewhere...

**"How To" shows - house & yard & building stuff... Yankee Carpenter is a good one!

**and I have to admit that I like the Antique Roadshow stuff... not the clones, but the British & American shows... you really learn a lot from those shows about history & culture.. not to mention how much some stuff is really worth.



Dr G., I agree. I will pass on the racing, fishing & hunting shows. And I live in the area where Ted Nugent (hunter/rocker) is worshiped like a god.

skittles



"I'll tell you how the sun rose, --A ribbon at a time." Emily Dickinson

[urnofosiris]

Oh I don't think we get hunting programs, if we do managed to miss them all, thankfully.

Quote:

---

**Interesting or unusual.. how many of you saw the Nova documentary about New York's Water System?? All the tunnels & where it comes from AND where it goes after it is used... **eewww** I think I still have that on tape somewhere...

---

Are you talking about the sewers? That sounds fun. I did see a documentary a week or so ago about the NY subway system which was very interesting.

[skittles]

Dr G... the documentary went from how the water got into the homes, apts, etc to how it left & where it went after that. I think the narrator was Danny DeVito or Judd Hirsch. It did go into a lot of description about the sewers, (which because of Beauty & the Beast was interesting) It was from that era, but had the complete water system, not just the sewers.



Sorry, I can't find a separate description of it.

skittles



"I'll tell you how the sun rose, --A ribbon at a time." Emily Dickinson

[sam7777]

I also like the program on the Historyand Discivery channels though I'm to squeamish to takcke the health channel. I like the programs on the space race on Discovery Wings. I like Simon Schama's History of Britain. He provides a excellent perspective on History and tackels issues mostly ignored like Britain's Jews. Great stuff. The History Channel has been running documentatires on biblical history this weekend.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Tempest Duer]

I love Nova. Some of the stuff is so cool, and they make a point of making it accessible to the layman as well as the people who are really into it.



I saw this one episode that I would love a transcript of if anyone can find it, about the brain and sexuality. It talked about the differences between gay and straight people, as well as transsexuals and those who were born with the appropriate gender. Has anyone else seen it? I wish I could remember more, but it actually interviewed the man who was famous because he lost his penis in a botched circumcision and was raised as a girl.

Willow: Hey Buff. One more thing. Buffy: Yeah? Willow: I’m gay. Buffy: Okay, Will. Xander owes me ten bucks.

~Remember to Breathe by Yellow Crayon

[Gatito Grande]

TD, this is the famous "As Nature Made Him" case (*lots* of documentaries and newsmagazines reported on this case, after the book As Nature Made Him was published).



The one thing I don't like about coverage of this case, is how Dr. John Money (of Johns Hopkins U.) is demonized. Some of his theories may be obsolete now---he's not going to win any awards from the intersexed, though his surgical interventions were the standard then (and too often now)---but in his time he was quite progressive (very trans-friendly). And in the "Nature" case, the parents of David (nee "Brenda", originally "Brandon") *sought* Dr. Money out (after the botched circumcision, by a doctor in their native Canada), not the other way around. The family also accuses him of sexual abuse, which frankly I don't believe (they've certainly never pressed charges). Then again, I've read books by the guy, which are very informative, so maybe I'm biased.



GG If you go to the PBS website, you can probably find the name of this NOVA ep---and buy it, if you wanna (not sure about transcripts). Out



Also wanna plug The Truth about Gay Animals, if the Trio Network shows it again (they have several times). I talked about it over on the general TV thread: that doc rocked!

[Gatito Grande]

I'm going to see Fahrenheit 9/11 tomorrow, but this documentary on PBS last night (last night where I live---check your local listings) was excellent.



It focused on the reporter/news photographer's eye-view of the War on Iraq (reporters/photographers from all over: well, Europe and the U.S.). It was some of the most up-close-and-personal perspectives on the war I've seen on U.S. TV (and it was produced by the BBC---I think in collaboration w/ the Danish?---go figure! ).



I think the "star" of the show may have been a young American photographer (I believe her name was Stephanie Sinclair). She's never been in a war-zone before, and you watch her mind getting blown (figuratively!) in the process (at the end of the docu., it's reported that she has decided that, despite the constant violence and terror, she will "stay in Iraq for a few years": it's as if she's become so horrified by what she's seen---the destruction of innocent lives, through American actions or negligence---that she's decided to throw in her lot w/ the Iraqi people). Very moving.



GG As often happens when I see scenes of American servicemen in action, I'm horrified. They yell at Iraqis in English (including, and I quote, "Keep your face in the dirt, motherf*cker!" ), and seem to take it as a personal affront when the Iraqis don't "do as they're told" (like obedient dogs). I'm by no means saying that all American service personnel are like this (anymore than they're all like the *ssholes in Abu Ghraib), but when you seeing these firepower-toting arrogant pr*cks screaming in a foreign language at people in their own land, you see exactly why Americans are so frickin' HATED. Out

[darkmagicwillow]

As mentioned earlier, the history channel is much too focused on military history (which certainly isn't all bad--I'm reading Barbara Tuchman's The Guns of August right now--but it's not what I want to watch 95% of the time), and Discovery and PBS are hit and miss. However, that hasn't mattered since I got my TiVo a few years ago.



I give TiVo keywords matching what my interests, then tell it to record every documentary matching those, and it finds them for me every day, any channel, any time. It's wonderful, though dangerous, as I went from watching a few hours a month before TiVo to a few hours a week with TiVo.



I still prefer books for learning, but I love historical documentaries for the visuals, especially when I'm missing ancient Rome or Greece. I don't like science documentaries as much, as they tend to be too superficial compared to the written word, but the Food Channel has some great documentaries on the science and history of food. However, Rachel Rae is cuter and her show more practical. (-;

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 7/7/04 6:18 pm

[skittles]

GG, (this is OT, but in line with what you said about the soldiers screaming at the Iraqis in English )



When I lived in the Detroit area, I worked for an automotive supplier with a plant in Mexico. As a computer tech, I would talk with the plant a few times a week. Out of 12 people in my office, I was the ONLY one who would even try and speak a little Spanish. In the evenings, the only people at the plant were the Spanish speakers... from the gate guard who answered the phone to the plant employees in the shipping & quality areas. I didn't say much, stuff like "extension uno tres uno" and (please log off the computer) and I tried to use the Spanish pronuciations of their names (try saying Jerry ... is comes out Herry or Yerry).



My point is that the people in the US offices put down my efforts to speak to the employees... "they work for an American company, they can learn English" My reply was "We are calling into their country, we should respect their culture & "try" to speak their language." I didn't speak a lot, but the response to my little effort was extremely appreciated. I think they realized that I respected them. That made all the difference.



Part of being in another country, or in another cultural area, is respecting that culture. Yes, English is pervasive, because of our media... BUT, if you are in another country, make the effort to speak a LITTLE of their language. Even words like Please, Thank you, "Excuse me, I don't speak *****" Sometimes we are too arrogant as a nation... expecting everyone else to know American English!!



I learned how to greet a Muslim in Arabic... "Salaam Ahlaykum" and the response "Vahlaykum Salaam" It makes a Huge difference in how people look at you.



When you try to adapt, it doesn't make you look like an "Ugly American" (anyone else read that book??) It makes you look like a respected guest.



Now back to our regularly scheduled topic... documentaries

skittles



"You are a child of the universe,

no less than the trees and the stars;

you have a right to be here." Desiderata, Max Erhmann

[dekalog]

GG that sounds like a Canadian documentary www.cbc.ca/deadlineiraq/ done by the CBC. DO you remember what the one the BBC did was called as I'd really like to compare the two.



thankd gg

Edited by: dekalog at: 7/9/04 4:07 am

[Hemiola]

Puh-leeeez--I lived in France for a year, and I never ceased to be amused by American tourists who felt that the easiest way to make themselves understood was to speak English slowly and loudly. Is it any wonder that so many Europeans have nothing but contempt for us? In fact, it is a commonplace amongst Europeans (including the British!) that Americans don't know three things:

1. geography

2. simple arithmatic

3. any language other than English.



On the subject of documentaries, I am also a fan of those of the "historical" variety, being particularly fond of such classics as "The Sorrow and the Pity". I have also enjoyed many of the Ken Burns series for public television, such as "The Civil War" and "Baseball"

[concrete]

I love medical phenomena and murder mysteries. Thank me for Discovery Channel! The medical stuff I find most educational. And the murder mysteries are a source of inspiration...... Riveting stuff

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious.

Even though the sound of it is something quite atrocious. ...

[Gatito Grande]

It's called War Feels Like War. It was shown on PBS as part of their independent documentary series P.O.V.. Here's the link for it: www.pbs.org/pov/pov2004/w...index.html



The CBC one is not the same (it may be very similar, I don't know). That one is going to be shown in the U.S. on the Discovery Channel. And here's the link for it, w/ the listing there: dtc.discovery.com/schedul...hannel=DTC



GG Lovin' when shows have good websites. FWIW, I think "War Feels Like War" offered more revealing coverage of the war than "Fahrenheit 9/11"---though not as graphic (and w/ none of the reasons behind it). Out

[dekalog]

While reading the 9/11 thread I began to think back on an excellent documentary that focused on Noam Chomsky and his book Manufacturing Consent. In it he talks about the corporate media's role in modern propaganda, and how that allows them to shape policy. It is interesting that while the film focuses on East Timor, and Cambodia it also has many references to Iraq, and Bush Sr. Just thought I'd give it a blurb and say if you liked 9/11 or the Corporation you would really get into this as well.

[Gatito Grande]

Anyone else watching this (on PBS)? (Completed Part 4--- of 6---tonight: wraps tomorrow).



Nothing brings out my inner gay guy like a musical: love it.



GG And it's being narrated by that ambisexual diva we've recently been discussing on the Queer Gossip thread! Out

[AmbeRocks]

i finally saw Super Size Me this weekend!!

it was good, and well i mostly knew all the things that were in it cause people told it all to me...but it was still ewww!

i'm happy i''m not a fast-food eater (ate mcdo once in the last at least 4 years)

anyway, that's all i had to say...!



jen

There is such a variety of well-invented things that the earth is like the breasts of a woman: useful as well as pleasing - Nietzsche

[Gatito Grande]

Just saw a fantastic documentary: perfect for what many of us are going through right now. It's on LinkTV, and check out the website here, to find out more about it, and when it will next be on.



The "I" in Simon & I is Bev Ditsie, film-maker and co-founder of the first South African LGBT organization, GLOW, along w/ Simon Nkoli.



The documentary, narrated (as well as written and directed) by Bev, begins w/ Simon's early days fighting apartheid (he was tried for *treason* in the 1980s), his coming out while in jail, and Bev's coming out (as a young teenager, w/ a not-comprehending family) around the same time.



It documents the first SA Gay Pride March in 1990, and the (successful) fight to get sexual orientation into the new SA Constitution, Bev's address (pushing gay rights) to the UN Conference on Women (Beijing, 1995*). Happy, happy days. [And we also get to hear Bev sing, which she does very well ]



But the film is not sentimental in the least. Not only does it cover Bev's many personal difficulties---w/ her family, her people (men massed outside her house in Soweto---where she lived w/ her grandmother---threatening her w/ rape), on a reality TV show. Perhaps even more painful, Bev discusses her growing alienation from her "hero" Simon (as we've seen before: where lesbian and gay male priorities---and understanding---increasingly diverge ).



And, of course, for a program on gays in Africa, it is haunted by the spectre of HIV/AIDS: we see Bev and Simon---reunited if not completely reconciled---reminiscing together, in what would prove to be the final weeks of his life (before he succumbed to Big A in 1998).



To see the highs and lows of Simon and Bev, is to be reminded that we (all of us queers, around the world, inc. the ragingly 'phobic USA at the moment) can get through our highs and (esp.) lows too.



GG For an Episcopalian like me, when we have our Anglican co-religionists in (particularly) Africa dumping on us (for being affirming of LGBTs), it's very reassuring to see proof that the charge that being gay is something "white" or "Western" is So Much Bullsh*t! Out



*I'd never heard of Bev (or Simon) before, but her speech to the UN Women's Conf brought a happy association. I think it was in response to her speech, that I heard a quote I've never forgotten. An Indian woman at the conference tells a reporter "We just learned about lesbians. I'd never heard of lesbians before, but I see that it's very, very, natural." Ever since then ('95), whenever the subject of womyn-lovin-womyn has come up, I've loved to repeat this quote: [in my best "Apu" accent ] "It's very, very natural!"

[Gatito Grande]

This is about the most compelling documentary description I've seen in a long time!

Quote:

---

Electric Orgasm: An anesthesiologist uses pain relief technology to trigger the brain's pleasure zone in three women.

---

GG Tonight (1/20) on Discovery Health Channel, at 10PM and 1AM (I'm sure it will repeat) Out



God, I hope the women are hot! (kinda hope the anesthesiologist is a hot woman, too )



ETA:



Women: older (than me, even!), not hot

Anesthesiologist: guy (not hot)

Results: for 2 out of 3, quite sad



It was still quite an interesting documentary . . . which left me, once again, thinking "heterosexual women need their heads examined!"



Seriously, for the two women for whom the device did not work, I wondered just how much of this had to do w/ the women's male partners (longtime husbands), and how sexual incompatibility put them in an impossible spot (one was clearly pressuring his wife for sex, the other was a cold fish, unable to see how much pain she was in). Both of these women were entirely internalizing their non-orgasmic state, and were actually saying it was their own fault! (Again I ask, WTF??? )



At the same time, these women need to take responsibility that they are letting their insensitive partners dictate how they feel about themselves.



It was most interesting to hear various theorists talk about the Female O, however. Does society put too much pressure on women to have them (or have them the "right way"? One of the women was saying "I can only have an orgasm on my knees": oh, honey, So Not a Problem IF you have the Right Partner!!! ) Should a woman feel "incomplete" if she can't have one? Is it a right, to which Extreme Measures should be resorted to (and I think a spinal implant---like the ones tested in this documentary---certainly counts as extreme!) Is the orgasm (or lack thereof) all in women's heads? (At one point, they showed a researcher testing other women in MRIs, who can have orgasms just by thinking 'em alone).



A really "intense" "explosive" "volcanic" "tidalwave-like" topic, worth exploring over and over and over again!



GG . . . counting my lucky stars that this is NOT an issue for me! Out

Edited by: Gatito Grande at: 1/20/05 8:49 pm