The Lord of the Rings

[urnofosiris]

Not having Tom Bombadil in the movie is one of the changes I really did like. Strictly speaking it is not really a change but rather an omission. One that I am happy about. I did not particularly like his merry skippy whistling singing persona. I just do not like people who constantly sing and whistle, I am just a nasty old scrooge that way. Bah, Humbug.

[WebWarlock]

Well watched some of Fellowship again the other day and I had thought.



Given that Mel can do "The Passion" in all Latin and (bad) Aramic, I want to see "The Similarion" in all Elfish!



That would be just about the coolest thing.



Course if someone suggested the next Trek movie be in all Klingon I'd have to hit them.



Warlock

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Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

"D&D doesn't teach children that monsters exist. Children already know that monsters are real.

D&D teaches them that monsters can be defeated."
- Unknown

[Hemiola]

Actually, it's an interesting idea....



Prof. Tolkien, after all, was a teacher of languages, and he supposedly derived what he originally called his "fairy language" from a combination of Welsh and Finnish. The trouble is, to really do it right, Prof. Tolkien would need to be around to supervise it! I dunno, maybe Christopher Tolkien might be knowledgeable enough to do it....



As for the actors, Liv Tyler actually stated in an interview that she was "very comfortable" speaking in Elvish. Viggo Mortenson, who is already bi-lingual English/Spanish, also seemed to have no problems with it. I don't know about Orlando Bloom....



And just exactly what do you have against Klingon? Are you some kind of "p'tach"?

[urnofosiris]

First of all, ew on mentioning the M word in this pretty thread , second, I hope not. In LotR I found the brief conversations in Elvish more than enough. I like to understand what people are saying, I am not into subtitles. On a more serious note, I don´t think Silmarillion would translate well onto the big screen, it is even more complex than LotR and much darker and it does not really have a central storyline. The Hobbit is almost a must be filmed, but as with the book, I don´t think I could enjoy it as much as I have LotR. I like the book, but after I had read LotR it definitely had to take a back seat. I´d miss Arwen, Eowyn and Aragorn too much.

[sam7777]

I echo that ew on the M word and add ewwwww. I think the Silmarillion would work better as a TV mini-series. There's simply too much story for one movie. IMHO the best way to do it would be to expand the role of Galadriel as a linking character. She was present for all of it though she isn't mentioned much after the Noldorians get to Middle. They could use some stuff from the Unfinished tales to flesh out her role. You need to have some character consistency or it will be hard for folks to follow. The later books of Dune like God Emperor have a similar problem.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Munchkin]

Just to get back on-topic here (I haven't actually read any of Tolkien's work aside from LotR, so I don't have a clue about stuff like the Silmarillion - sorry), I've just read in the local paper that the RotK Extended DVD will NOT be released in November as usual, but December. (Arrrrrrghhhh!!!)



Apparently, it's due to the delay in gathering all the actors to do the commentaries, but if this is indeed true then it's still a minor disappointment. And it turns out that Miranda Otto is actually a brunette in real-life and not a redhead after all (according to the "Admired Miranda" website header), but I still like her anyway.

_______



Dave C.

[urnofosiris]

I guess she can be forgiven for not being a natural redhead, but only barely. December, that sucks, but it can be a nice way to spend Christmas, watching 10+ hours LotR. I saw the extras on the RotK DVD, a bit of a let down compared to the other DVDs, but I loved the commentary by Christopher Lee. He basically says Sam is the true hero of the story, the ordinary guy.



I could not agree with him more. In the books and in the movie it is Sam who saves Frodo, who just happens to have that ring hanging around this neck more times than I can count. Without Sam the quest would have failed and I am not at all convinced that had Shelob really killed Frodo the quest would have failed then. Sam took the ring and I believe he would have cast it into the fire. His love for Frodo and the Shire and the world was stronger than the power of that ring. It really annoyed me when their friends realized the ring was destroyed they were cheering for Frodo alone and when they believed him dead, they cried for him alone. I disliked that they made Frodo struggle with Gollum for the ring after he had taken it from him. It makes it seem like we somehow do have Frodo to thank for it´s destruction. It lessens his failure and the power of Gandalf´s prophetic words about Gollum and the importance of Bilbo sparing his life. He fell into the fire cheering and dancing, not because of anything Frodo did. I don´t like Frodo, did I mention that already?

Edited by: DrG at: 6/19/04 12:32 am

[Munchkin]

I hear you about Frodo, DrG; he's a total wuss. Unlike Sam who valiantly fights off the dreaded Shelob, single-handedly slays the surviving orcs at Cirith Ungol, carries Frodo's wimp-ass all the way up Mount Doom, beats back Gollum, and almost certainly would've cast the Ring into the fire himself. And yet, Frodo is hailed as The Hero. At least I can console myself with the reminder that Elijah Wood once had a guest spot in the TV series Homicide in which he played a prep-school sadist who got insulted and smacked around by Det. Tim Bayliss, so I tend to picture Frodo getting the same treatment just because he's such a wimp.



Speaking of which, I'm afraid that after reading the books, I somehow just don't like Faramir in either way. In the books, he's way too perfect in helping Frodo and Sam go on their way without question and resisting The One Ring, but in the movies he comes off as a self-serving and (especially in RotK) insecure wuss who's so distraught over his "Daddy-Issues" with Denethor that he goes off and gets his ass handed to him in the doomed charge to retake Osgilliath.



But mostly, he gets to be with Eowyn in the end which is just plain wrong because she should be mine, all mine! Arwen is also kinda drippy to me, and her Big Scene at the river confronting the Nine Black Riders in the FotR movie has always made me cringe, creative necessity or not. But that's just me.

_______



Dave C.

Edited by: Munchkin at: 6/19/04 3:52 pm

[urnofosiris]

I liked Faramir in the book and the changes to his character in the movie made no sense to me at all. The argument they used in the commentaries was that having Faramir not be tempted by the ring would rob it of it´s power. I think that is too easy, just because Frodo is a weenie does not mean everyone else has to be as well. Gandalf and Aragorn could have taken the ring at any moment. Bilbo gave it up after having it and using it for 60 years. Sam was not tempted by it. The Faramir in the books was a good contrast to Boromir. The Faramir in the movies is, like you said, an insecure wuss with daddy issues. Not worthy of Eowyn.

I did like the scene with Arwen and the Nazgul, I just did not like her weeping over Frodo, but I don´t like anyone weeping over Frodo. I think I have Frodo issues, but just to balance things out: I hated Elrond too.

Edited by: DrG at: 6/20/04 4:22 am

[WebWarlock]

Quote:

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I saw the extras on the RotK DVD, a bit of a let down compared to the other DVDs, but I loved the commentary by Christopher Lee. He basically says Sam is the true hero of the story, the ordinary guy.

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G. Do you mean the one that just came out or the Extended version due out in December?



Yes Sam is the hero, he always has been. While I really don't care enough about Frodo to hate him, him a Sam represent a duality of heroes in Tolkien's work (IMHO). Sam is brave and represents us all, Frodo represents the weaknesses we all have. By playing Sam and Frodo off of each other Tolkien gives us a hero, normal issues and weakness with strength, courage and love.



Gandalf, Aragon, and even Elrond and the others are mythic heroes. We are not supposed to be able to related to them (and thus they are not overtly tempted by the Ring) they were supposed to be living legends. Which makes the scene in the movie where everyone bows to the hobbits more emotional. They are true heroes, the people the world really matters to, the common everyday man (and woman).



Which is why I did not mind the change of the scouraging of the Shire. The Hobbits at home lived their lives blissfully unaware of the events that nearly destroyed their world. I felt that the scene of four drinking (contrasted to the Prancing Pony of FotR) knew they would never tell the others and were almost envious of their ignorance-is-bliss.



In the end it was Sam that got the happiest of endings. He settled down in the world he help save with a woman he loves and surrounded by kids. Not everyone's happiest of endings to be sure, but perfect for Sam (and truth be told, me).



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

Coming Soon to The Other Side, The Netbook of Shadows: A Book of Spells for d20 Witches

"D&D doesn't teach children that monsters exist. Children already know that monsters are real.

D&D teaches them that monsters can be defeated."
- Unknown

[urnofosiris]

I wish I had my hands on the extended edition right now, but alas, I shall have to be patient for longer than I like to be. I meant the extra´s on RotK DVDs are a bit of a let down compared to the extras of FotR and TT.

[sam7777]

Speaking of the extended edition. Current rumors are that it will be hitting theatres before it comes on on DVD:

Further Evidence ROTK EE Coming to Theaters

Quote:

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Ringer Baggins of the Shire sends in this tidbit: I work for Odeon cinema chain in the UK, we recieved a letter on Tuesday 6th July explaining that during October the 3 extended editions of the Lord Of The Rings films will be shown on Sunday's. This means ROTK EE will be shown before it is available to buy on DVD!

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_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Munchkin]

Please, please, pleeeeeze let this be true. So true that it'll have to come to movie theatres in North America as well. Particularly here in Canada.



Because last year when the theatrical RotK was about to be shown, the Extended versions of FotR and TTT were indeed released theatrically here in Victoria, BC (individually and as part of a Triple Feature with the regular RotK), and it was good to see each film all the way through without having to switch to a second DVD disc like at home, the only drawback to deal with IMO. Not that it'll stop me from buying the Extended DVDs anyway.



And since the actors don't need to record voice-over DVD commentary over an Extended RoTK that's being released theatrically, maybe releasing it in Theatres first will be more likely. And then the Triple Feature route will be done properly this time, as more than a few movie patrons were heard to be grumbling about the lack of Saruman at the end of regular RotK the last time I saw it in the 'older-movies' University theatre this April (after they'd seen the Extended FotR and TTT). But one can only hope.

_________



Dave C.



Edited to Add 7/24: BTW, I was in a comic book/action figure store last week and saw a special LotR:RoTK 'Gates of Mordor' pack that not only included Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas & Gimli, but an exclusive Mouth of Sauron with Steed as well. And it looked frickin' awesome! (Only five more months...)

Edited by: Munchkin at: 7/24/04 4:52 pm

[Warduke]

From AICN...

Quote:

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ROTK: EE



Oh, shit! Oh, shit! Oh, shit! Saruman's speech on top of Orthanc down to Gandalf and his companions! The Mouth of Sauron!!! Holy shit, the Mouth of Sauron... shot most with close ups of the grotesque, horrifying mouth... wet, slimy... with long, pointed teeth... as the dude reveals Frodo's mithril shirt to Aragorn... Aragorn's challenge to the Sauron via the Palantir gave me goosebumps... Aragorn healing Eowyn...



The footage shown was all of that and more. They brought a 4 minute preview which had most of that above and showed 3 full clips. One was Faramir and Eowyn's first tender moment in the houses of healing, where he consoles her saying that the darkness that weighs heavy on her heart will lift. They also showed a scene that I saw being filmed during the pick-ups last summer with Faramir talking to Pippin and we find out that the Gondor armor Pip has was Faramir's boyhood armor, though Faramir doesn't think it fits the hobbit quite right.



Pip says, "I'm not going to grow anymore, except sideways."



The other bit was an extended scene from the Paths of the Dead. In this cut Aragorn's "What say you!?!?" shout doesn't end there... The Dead don't accept and disappear... all of a sudden Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn are being showered with an avalanche of skulls. They fight against the growing tide and barely make it out of that chamber.



That's what they showed... more quick bits from the 4 minute preview include Eowyn getting beat-up upon by Gothmog, Denethor being more of a bastard to Faramir, Merry's pledge to Theoden, Grima getting smacked by Saruman... Gandalf being caught in a fireball from Saruman's staff... and the ending one... the coolest one... Gandalf being stopped by the Nazgul on the Fell Beast when riding up to save Faramir from burning to death... The ugly brute steadily approaches the wizard and taunts him... The then raises his sword to the sky and it erupts in flame. Gandalf is about to get F'ed in the A.

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And

Quote:

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Here's what I can remember from the LotR: RotK Extended Edition segment from Comic-Con:



First, no Peter Jackson (I know, not a surprise, but I was hoping). We had some lady hosting the panel, DVD producer (sorry, don't know the name), Producer Rick Porras, and actors Billy Boyd (Pippen) and David Wenham (Faramir). They showed a bit more than I thought: a four minute 'preview,' and then three short scenes.



From the preview I recognized (forgive me if names are a little off; It's been awhile since I've read the books):



*stuff from House of the Healing



* stuff from Gandalf vs. Saruman (Gandal confronts him to get info, and a fight breaks out: at least, Saruman shoots fire from atop the fallen 'tower')



* a flashback or something of Faramir, Boromir, and Denathor that explains (I think) all of that friction (how Denathor wants Boromir to get the ring for himself).



* a face-off between Gandolf and the Witch King



* extra battle stuff, and extra scenes of Sam and Frodo in disguise as Orcs



* Aragorn using the 'eye' to deceive Sauromon



I can't remember what else was in the trailer, but very cool stuff



For the scenes they showed:



1. A scene with Faramir courting Eowyn at the House of the Healing



2. A scene with Faramir and Pippin talking after Pippin changes into the 'knight' outfit. Faramir tells him that the outfit belonged to a boy who dreamed of fighting dragons instead of studying, unlike his brother. Pippin says "it was yours" and Faramir talks about Denathor's greater love of Boromir. Pippin then says something about how Denathor will love and appreciate his wisdom or something in time. It was a nice scene



3. Peter Jackson (via video; he was in pre-production for King Kong. It was funny, as he seemed genuinely bummed to miss Comic-Con...again... and said one of these days he'd make it out) introduced a scene that was added 'for fun.' It was an extended cut of Aragorn recruiting the Army of the Dead. After he offers them eternal rest for paying off the debt, the Dead back off, and disappear and tens of thousands of skulls poor out of the mountains in the cavern. Cool stuff.



The box will be blue. Here's the cool part:



There are FIFTY extra minutes. I know; my jaw hit the floor too when I heard that! I guess there were 300 FX shots to finish, and in March after Return of the Kings had racked up the Oscars, Peter Jackson wanted to shoot one more scene (a close up of the skulls from the above Army of the Dead scene). So the last shot filmed was done in March.



Anyway, that's the scoop. Cool stuff; too bad we have to wait until December, but I guess this'll make great Christmas gifts (as if anyone can wait that long to watch these discs).

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Holy crap!



This is even better than what I expected, and I was expecting a lot. Seems like everything we wanted to be in it will be. I sooo can't wait for this.

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

Edited by: Warduke at: 7/24/04 1:32 pm

[urnofosiris]

Quote:

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Oh, shit! Oh, shit! Oh, shit! Saruman's speech on top of Orthanc down to Gandalf and his companions! The Mouth of Sauron!!! Holy shit, the Mouth of Sauron... shot most with close ups of the grotesque, horrifying mouth... wet, slimy... with long, pointed teeth... as the dude reveals Frodo's mithril shirt to Aragorn... Aragorn's challenge to the Sauron via the Palantir gave me goosebumps... Aragorn healing Eowyn...

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Yes yes yes! I must see that, I am not watching the unextended version again. I need to see it as it should be. This sounds too good to be true.

[sam7777]

Thanks Warduke! I've been wanting to see this:

Quote:

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1. A scene with Faramir courting Eowyn at the House of the Healing

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Also Saruman and the mouth of Sauron. Now I really can't wait for the extended edition.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Triscuit7]

Hi Kittens



I was at the Hugo ceremony last night - quite a lot of fun with Neil Gaiman as master of ceremonies. There was no surprise in the winner for long form dramatic presentation, the Hugo going to LOTR/Return of the King. The short form was little less certain, I think, but Gollum's 2003 MTV award speech won.



Ciao, Melissa



(ETA Gollum's speech is contained on an Easter Egg on Two Towers; this may be the extended version only)

******************



Do something totally irrational and let the enemy think himself to death. (Pyanfar Chanur)

Edited by: Warduke at: 9/5/04 9:49 am

[sam7777]

Thanks Melissa!! Yep Peter Jackson made a clean sweep of the Hugos as he did of the Oscars with LOTR. Though from what I can see of the nominees, Gollum's speech was the only good thing nominated for short form and definitely worth a look of you have access to the extended DVD for Two Towers. I still think that the Hugo awards should stick to print SciFi which needs the publicity rather than movies and TV that have their own awards.



Here's an interview with Billy Boyd and David Wenham on the extended DVD for Return of the King:

David Wenham and Billy Boyd Discuss the Extended Version of "Return of the King"



ETA:New LIne has set the release date for the extended ROTK dvd: (14th December 2004)



Return of the King

Quote:

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New Line has confirmed that the four-disc extended edition of Return of the King will arrive on the 14th December. The set will include around fifty-minutes of additional footage, including the highly anticipated confrontation with Saruman. Stacks of extra material will also be featured, including cast and crew audio commentaries and multiple behind the scenes documentaries and featurettes. The SRP will be around $39.99. Also arriving on the 14th will be a collector's giftset which includes the aforementioned four-disc extended edition, along with a Sideshow/Weta statue of Minas Tirith and a Howard Shore Creating the Lord of the Rings Symphony DVD. The retail price for this will be set at around $79.92.

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I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 9/13/04 9:54 pm

[urnofosiris]

Yes yes, counting down now.

[sam7777]

yeah someday my dream will come true and I can preorder. I'm getting antsy as by the end oc summer the last couple of years, I already had the extended editions preodered.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Warduke]

Wanna see a preview of the RotK Extended Edition DVD?



Yeah, I thought you would





small version (4 MB)



large version (9MB)

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[urnofosiris]

Yes sir, can I have some more please?

[sam7777]

Thanks Warduke!! That footage rocked!! And it's omly a small part of the extr 50 minues. Now I really can't wait for the extended ROTK DVD.

[TemperedCynic]

Stunning! Of course, I expected nothing less from PJ and WETA. Makes the 30 year wait for a LotR feature film very worthwhile. Home entertainment centers were made to play these films!

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More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly. Woody Allen (1935 - )

[sam7777]

is when the extended edition come sout and I can't wait. I know it woun't dissappoint as star wars has in the lastest iterations and redone special editions.



Beloved Tolkien trilogy sets cash registers ringing

Quote:

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Some day historians will list billionaires of the 21st century: Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, Frodo Baggins.

Frodo Baggins?

Fifty years ago this month, the fantasy tale that became a worldwide phenomenon was launched when J.R.R. Tolkien's ``The Lord of the Rings'' was first published in the United States by Boston-based Houghton Mifflin.

Tolkien's tale of elves, dwarves and hobbits has not only proved to be one of the most popular books of all times but it has inspired one of Hollywood's biggest blockbusters, with the ripple effect surging through museums, home entertainment, collectibles and the music and toy industries.

And just think: In 1968, Tolkien sold the film rights for a mere $18,000.

Here are snapshots of the Middle-earth economy.

PUBLISHING: From 2000 to 2004, 25 million copies of various versions of the ``Rings'' trilogy and Tolkien's ``The Hobbit'' have been sold. Houghton Mifflin's Tolkien-related books generated $48 million in sales in 2001 and $54 million in 2002. Unlike most classic novels, it remains available in hardback editions. ``For a book that's 50 years old, it's unprecedented,'' said Houghton Mifflin projects director Clay Harper.

STILL MORE PUBLISHING: Interest in all things Rings has spawned a cottage industry of scholarly commentary and criticism, plus pop-culture books focusing on Peter Jackson's movies. Currently, Houghton Mifflin's Tolkien catalog features 106 titles. A search on ``Lord of the Rings'' on Amazon.com yields a whopping 91,388 hits.

AND FOR THE READER WHO HAS EVERYTHING: Houghton Mifflin has published a 50th anniversary edition printed as Tolkien envisioned it - as one hardbound, gilt-edge volume, with fold-out maps. The price: $100.

AT THE MOVIES: According to worldwideboxoffice.com, the three ``Rings'' movies together have grossed $2,914 million worldwide.

IN HOBBIT HOLES: The various DVD/video versions of the first two movies,``The Fellowship of the Ring'' and ``The Two Towers,'' generated an estimated $634 million in sales and about $70 million in rental revenue.``Fellowship'' has sold just less than 19 million copies and ``Tower'' 17.3 million. ``The Return of the King'' has sold about 12 million copies and its much anticipated extended DVD goes on sale Dec. 14.

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I still see dead lesbian cliches

[urnofosiris]

Looking at those numbers, it seems like people are waiting for the extended versions before buying the DVD. I have no idea whether those numbers are really high or average for the sales of movie on DVD worldwide. It is a lot, but then again it isn´t. In any case I´ll be adding myself to that 12 million list (actually I am already on it, seeing as I have bought the 2 disc version as well) as soon the extended version comes out. I am going to watch all three extended versions in a row.

[Warduke]

Here's a six minute preview of the RotK EE DVD...



Link

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[urnofosiris]

Man I cannot cannot cannot wait for that.

[sam7777]

OmiGAWD!!! That looks so awesome! Just two more weeks and it will be mine,my own....my precious...

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[urnofosiris]

I can´t believe no one beat me to the first post about the extended version. I watched it tonight and it was fantastic. I absolutely cannot understand why the confrontation with Saruman and the mouth of Sauron were left out of the cinematic version in favour of scenes like Gandalf yapping to Pippin about how death is not the end yada yada. I loved the added scenes with Eowyn, she kicked some more ass in the battle and I am happy we saw how Aragorn helped her heal afterwards. In the cinematic version all she got to do after her heroic deeds was to smile at Aragorn at his coronation. Not enough credit. This was better.



I can accept it much better now that they left out the scouring of the Shire, there was closure with Saruman now. They managed to make Denethor even more disgusting with the added scenes, but whatever, the extra Eowyn more than cancels any misgivings I might have about that. Now I am going to plan a day to watch the whole thing at once. It will have to wait a while or I will OD on LotR. I´ll check out the extra´s first, that should keep me busy for a while.

Edited by: DrG at: 12/11/04 2:59 pm