The Lord of the Rings

[seurat]

It doesn't come out here until Tuesday. Damn. Really can't wait to see all of that stuff. Let us know if you find an easter egg hidden on there.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[urnofosiris]

Oh that explains it. Now I see it in the post above as well: December 14th. Hee, it came out on the 10th here.

If there is an easter egg on it, I won´t find it. I did not even know there was one on FotR until I read about it here.

[urnofosiris]

Well, I´ve been careful not to say anything that was not already known in advance, but be warned anyone: now that the extended version is out, you run the risk of being spoiled in this thread, so it might be best to skip it until you have seen it for yourself.

Elrond is an arrogant ass, I did not like him in the books and I certainly do not like him in the movies. His fake happy crying laughter when Arwen is reunited with Aragorn just made me want to slap him. Blergh. Never mind, Eomer is a bit of a one dimensional cardboard cut out and -very minor spoiler- a sexist turd, but I am ok with that. He makes Eowyn look so much better, braver and beautiful. Not that she needs anyone for that, but it does not hurt.

Edited by: DrG at: 12/12/04 2:05 am

[Munchkin]

Damn. Ah well, as long as you haven't revealed exactly what happened in the extended scenes (Saruman and The Mouth of Sauron) DrG, I'll be fine before it comes out here in Canada on Tuesday. Because I do NOT want to be spoiled on those important details. Seriously.



Until then, I think I'll stay away from the HMV stores for the next few days since they're now playing the Extended RotK on their TV screens (w. the sound off), as I found out this afternoon when I caught some of the new stuff from the end of the Battle of Pelennor Fields. For what it's worth, I was glad to see the death-scene of that ass-faced Orc leader-guy (never liked him anyway 'cause he was just a poser and a pussy with a piss-poor make-up job to boot, the only low point for the effects team IMO).



Not so much for boring Eomer bawling like a baby upon finding Eowyn unconscious, which I expected after it was already shown in last year's theatrical trailer. Next to wussy Faramir, Eomer is probably my least favorite of the 'heroic' characters because he's just so boring. Also, I'm not sure why Elrond is disliked so much either (I'm simply indifferent to him). But that's just me.

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Dave C.

[Warduke]

That's great Garfield. And I'm not even jealous you got it before me.

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[urnofosiris]

That´s good Brian. And I´m not even laughing at you for getting it before you.....













Edit: It is the 14th today, hurry up, buy it, watch it, post about it. I want to talk about it some more.

Edited by: DrG at: 12/14/04 3:55 am

[sam7777]

I got mine yesterday. I found two easter eggs. One at the bottom of the scenes menu on Disk One: go to the last page of scenes and click down from the scene names in the middle till a ring appears. Clikc on that to see the scene. On Disk 2, go to the last page of scenes and click down from the scene numbers to the right till a ring appears.



The Saruman scene is the one bit that really adds alot IMHO though it was cool to see more of the battle of Pelennor fields and the houses of healing. I won't put in details until it gets out more generally. Like Fellowship, the new scenes are great but don't improve on the film the way that the extended edition improved on Two Towers. It just makes a great movie even better.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[seurat]

Thanks for the info on the easter eggs, for some reason I can never find that stuff on my own either.



I also bought it yesterday, but haven't had the time to see it all yet. I did get through the first disc and really enjoyed the Saruman scene, I really think Jackson should have put that in the theatrical version. Most of the other new or extended scenes were good to have, but not as essential. I'll wait until I get rhough the rest, probably late tonight, before i say any more.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[Warduke]

I won’t go into a lot of detail right now, but the EE was well worth the wait. The confrontation with Saruman blew me away and the mouth of Sauron was just freaky. No way those two scenes should have been left out of the theatrical version. The rest was also great. The extended scenes of the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, Aragorn with the Army of the Dead, Eowyn and of course, the confrontation between Gandalf and the Witch-King.



I need to watch it all a few more times, and all the extras

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Firefox: One Browser To Rule Them All.

[urnofosiris]

Thanks Sam, I liked the second Easter egg very much, the first one, not so much. Brian, if you watch all the extra´s you will come across Cristopher Lee commenting on the fact that they left out the scene with Saruman. He says he absolutely cannot understand why they did it and I feel the same way. They briefly commented on why they left it out and it still makes no sense to me at all. I remember wondering when I was reading the book for the first time whether Saruman would just be left in his tower indefinitely. That felt very unsatisfactory. It was not until the very end that he showed up again and got his come uppance. There had to be closure to his story, just leaving him there without a word was not it.



It did not help that the scene in the theatrical version was badly cut, even if you had not read the book you had to know something was missing. The cut to Gandalf saying ´and there he must remain´ or something like that, was so abrupt it was obvious we joined him halfway down a sentence. It also made absolutely no sense at all that the palantir would just be washed out by the flood. Orthanc was a massive solid tower, there were no cracks or anything for the Ents to get a hold of to tear it down. How could this most treasured thing that was high up in the tower just wash out? This scene would not have slowed things down one bit, it left me at the tip of my seat, much more than the way it was in the theatrical version. What´s done is done though and the extended versions are the real movies to me, they are as near to perfect as can be and I won´t ever go back to watching the theatrical ones. This was well worth the wait indeed.

Edited by: DrG at: 12/15/04 10:53 pm

[Ben Varkentine]

I'm halfway through watching it with the director/writers commentary. One of the great things they talk about is one of the reasons they needed to make certain changes from the books.



In a dramatic context (as opposed to prose), they say, it just doesn't work to introduce new characters into a story in the last third. The audience simply won't have the same investment in them as the characters who they've known from the beginning or even middle of the story.



Now, there's no lesson that can be drawn from that point. Certainly nothing about she-who-must-not-be-named or any of the other new characters who pushed the scooby gang to the sidelines of their own series.



Is there?

Ben



"One voice is easily ignored or silenced, but when other people add their voices to yours, you become a chorus not easily ignored."--Wil "Just A Geek" Wheaton

[seurat]

Well, I've seen the whole extended version of the movie now, still not any of the extras or commentaries though. That could take a while, it really is an enormous amount of stuff so I'm going to dip into the rest slowly. As I've already posted about the Saruman scene there's no need to say more, except perhaps that it's hard for me to understand how anyone could see it and not think it had to be in the movie. Among other things it explains why there is no scouring of the Shire. The extra Eowyn bits are wonderful too, although I have to say that even with the extra footage I still don't buy the Eowyn/Faramir ship. It makes sense in the book, but not here.

Did it seem to anyone else that this dvd looks astonishingly good, even better than the previously released version? Maybe they tweaked it a bit more in the interim. Agreed that these are the definitve versions of the films, there's no need to ever watch the theatrical version again unless it's to compare how specific scenes were put together in each. I think in the end I still prefer to re-read the books and create my own movie in my head, but these extended versions are brilliant and I'm grateful to have them. Don't think I'll be settling down to watch all three in a row for a good long time though. But I'm guessing some of you will.

"Life's complications and frustrations/they disappear when the music starts playing/I found a place where it feels alright/I hear a record and it opened my eyes/do you remember what the music meant?" - Speakers Push Air, Pretty Girls Make Graves

[urnofosiris]

Oh I will, but I won´t have the time anytime soon, so it will be a while for me as well. I don´t buy the Faramir/Eowyn thing either. I was more pleased with the added scenes with Aragorn, there was an attraction and great affection on his side as well (and how can´t there have been) and these scenes showed that better.

In the book Faramir and Eowyn do work (for me anyway), but there he is not a whiny boy with daddy issues. He is a man that knows his own worth. As it is, there is so little Faramir/Eowyn in the movie that you can barely speak of a relationship, but it is hinted at of course. In the book they are the only characters of who Tolkien describes a kiss, but they don´t kiss in the movie and I am happy about that, it would have been too forced.

Edited by: DrG at: 12/16/04 10:46 pm

[WebWarlock]

Got my extended ed of RotK.

And my wife grabbed it and wrapped it and said I can open it on Christmas. Something about me being hard to buy for....



So I'll tell you all about after Christmas.



Warlock

Web Warlock, web.warlock@comcast.net, The Other Side.

Liber Mysterium: The D20 Netbook of Witches & The Dragon and the Phoenix: New Adventures of Willow and Tara

"But nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight, Got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight"

- "Lovers In A Dangerous Time", Bruce Cockburn.

[sam7777]

In all fairness, it would be hard to make Faramir/Eowyn work without all the stuff from the book and though "The Steward and the King" is my fav chapter, I wasn't really expecting to see it all. At best you get a taste of the Faramir/Eowyn thing that at least explains somewhat why they are standing together at the end. I wanted more but the the bits in the houses of healing were nice to see in any case.



DrG: Agreed a kiss would have felt forced given the short time to develop the relationship.



What was less effective to me was extended Paths of the Dead. It kind of ruins the surprise later at the Battle of Pellenor fields. I liked all the extra bits with Eowyn at the Battle of Pellenor fields and loved Gandalf and the Witch king. That encounter just makes what Eowyn and Merry do all the more incredible.



Tim: This is why I got ROTK EE for my own present. Everyone and their brother wanted to give it to me but I just couldn't wait. Still it's only a week. It would be worse if it had come out in November.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 12/17/04 4:42 pm

[Hemiola]

Having now watched the extended edition of the film, I must here state my complete agreement with both seurat and DrG: the Saruman scene should never have been left out of the theatrical version!! Indeed, I remember sitting in the theatre and saying to myself, "where's the confrontation with Saruman"? As was previously stated, without this scene, the continuity seems "jerky", and Pippin's finding of the Palantir makes no sense at all!!! Furthermore, given that Saruman was such an important part of both "Fellowship" and "Towers", it was illogical to have him simply disappear from "Return" without any kind of explanation .



I also agree that while it was nice to have all of the other material, it was not absolutely essential. I, too, would love to have seen the King/Steward scene as it is in the book: with Faramir attempting to surrender his office, but Aragorn telling him that his office is not abolished, and that he would make him the Prince of Ithilien, since he had worked so long and hard to defend it. As far as the Faramir/Eowyn stuff is concerned, I agree that it would have been difficult to depict it as it is in the book. The language of their scenes in the book is some of the most "stylized" in the whole of the epic; Tolkien chose to give their words a very "heraldic" character, such as that found in the old medieval romances (and Tolkien was, of course, an expert in these romances--his version of "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" is still the standard edition ).



All in all, this EE is absolutely essential for anyone truly devoted to both the original books and Jackson's films. I doubt that we will ever have a better cinematic realization of these stories .

[WebWarlock]

Hey!



I am sure you all saw this, but it never hurts to repeat it.



Get a slip case for your extended edition LotR.

www.lotrdvdbox.com/



This will work nicely next to all my box/slipcase editions of my LotR, Hobbit and Harry Potter books.



Getting ready to watch RotK now!!!



Warlock

Web Warlock, web.warlock@comcast.net, The Other Side.

Liber Mysterium: The D20 Netbook of Witches & The Dragon and the Phoenix: New Adventures of Willow and Tara

"But nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight, Got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight"

- "Lovers In A Dangerous Time", Bruce Cockburn.

[sam7777]

Tim, you will not be the only one enjoying ROTK EE.

Amazon reports record-setting holiday sales

Quote:

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DVD sales in the week ending December 12 set a one-week record. "Lord of the Rings, Return of the King Extended Edition" made a single-title, one-day record of 13,000 orders on December 14.

...



For DVDs, top sellers were "Lord of the Rings: Return of the King Extended Edition," "Seinfeld" seasons one to three and the "Star Wars Trilogy."

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_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

[Hemiola]

A Question for DrG------



I visited Holland in 1970 (I'm old, remember ), and while walking down Amsterdam's Damrak I remember being astonished to see a large sign on a newsstand with big letters reading "GANDALF". I immediately approached the salesperson (who, unusually for a Dutch person, didn't speak much English and, of course, pronounced the name as "Cchhhandalf" in the Dutch manner ) and pointed at the sign, asking what it was. The salesperson offered me a sort of newspaper or magazine (hard to tell; it looked almost like a "student publication" would here in the USA) which turned out to be some sort of political/social commentary publication.



DrG, do you recall any such publication? Does it still exist? If so, why does it carry the name of Tolkien's wizard????

[sam7777]

I have been going through the commentary tracks (done 3 of 4 minus post production as yet). One of the things that strike me is how open Peter Jackson was to the ideas of other s and in particular to the contributions from his actors. For example, it was Bernard Hill's idea (he played Theoden) to strike the spears with his sword prior to the battle of the Pellenor Fields. Sir Ian McKellen had the idea of the pictures in the end credits and was often instrumental in bringing Tolkiens text back into the script as was Christoper Lee. A director/screenwriter that welcomes the creative input of others truly is a rare thing with the egos and selfishness running rampart through Hollywood. Their input certainly made for a better movie but also shows how secure Peter Jackson was in his vision. A very rare thing. He is also always ready to praise the work and contributions of others rather than his own, another rare thing. For me this is what made the LOTR work a thing of genius: the amazing collaboration. I'm certain that all the people who worked on LOTR would happily work with Peter again. Now this does not mean that Peter Jackson is himself a genius. No one can really be a genius until their whole body of work is out there to be judged and to call them geniuses early in their careers for one or two good things is really ridiculous and has made the word meaningless.



The bottom line for me is that PJ is simply not an arrogant shite and his interviews are a pleasure which certainly makes me want to look at his future work while that of the arrogants makes me want to shun them as I have BG and latter shite of the creator that shall not be named. Peter Jackson is undeniably talented and still has a promising future ahead of him. He may attain real genius or he may not but it won't be his character flaws holding him back. His respect to the Tolkien fans ( a more demaning and difficult lot would be hard to find) is simply amazing right down to including them in the DVD credits. I can see his fans having conventions 20-30 years from now as Trek fans did. Peter Jackson not only has the loyalty of millions of fans but he actually deserves it. Wow.

_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 12/30/04 1:53 pm

[urnofosiris]

Hemiola, I am happy to admit I was not yet born in that year, but you only missed me by one. I can hear a bell ringing very softly somewhere in the distance, but for now I cannot answer your question. I will try and google it later, but better yet, I will relay your question to our fellow board member concrete. She lives in Amsterdam and she is old too.



Tomorrow my mother and I will watch all the extended version together. Oh yeah I know how to celebrate the last day of the year.

[concrete]

Quote:

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Tomorrow my mother and I will watch all the extended version together

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If you live that long..... you horrible little git

I have many skills....

[urnofosiris]

Oh please, your old brain will have forgotten all about this in 5 minutes. Anyway, Gandalf apparently was a magazine in the 60s and 70s (back when concrete here was in her late 40s) published by a dude called Guus Dijkhuizen. The magazine supported a philosophy he had thought up, called the ´anti esthetics´. Basically it was a very leftish type of thing. I could not find info on why it was called Gandalf, but I did come across this old picture, which was originally taken for the cover of one of Gandalf´s magazines:

[WebWarlock]

ROTK-EE is quite simply a work of pure art.



Sam: Imagine that. A Writer-Director-Producer that is not a full of himself little prick. Course Peter Jackson stays out of Hollywood.



As a Tolkien fan before I was any other kind of fan (including Trek, but only by months really) I LOVE the movies, changes and all.



I'll be watching it again tomorrow night.



Warlock

Web Warlock, web.warlock@comcast.net, The Other Side.

Liber Mysterium: The D20 Netbook of Witches & The Dragon and the Phoenix: New Adventures of Willow and Tara

"But nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight, Got to kick at the darkness 'til it bleeds daylight"

- "Lovers In A Dangerous Time", Bruce Cockburn.

[Gatito Grande]

Thanks for that, G! (It occurs to me that 1960s sexpert "Xaviera Hollander" may have chosen her last name for a reason, eh? )



GG Heh: if I'm not mistaken, is she wearing tulips over two of her lips? Out

[urnofosiris]

So she is, I had not even noticed. I guess I was distracted by other features. She should have worn wooden shoes as well I think, that would have made the picture complete. Tulips, wooden shoes, and I am sure that thing is she is smoking is no ordinary cigarette.

[Hemiola]

Many thanks for the info DrG



I remember being very disappointed at the time, since I had hoped that perhaps I had discovered a Dutch "fanzine" devoted entirely to Tolkien's works (at this time, I had only read the books twice).



Anyway, it is odd that he should have chosen that name--is it possible that "Gandalf" means something in Dutch??



Lotsa great stuff in the EE cast commentary, which is worth listening to just for the hilarious antics of Billy and Dom. The funniest comment, though, comes from Bernard Hill who, commenting on the scene wherein Theoden silently contemplates the mustering of his troops for the ride to Minas Tirith muses: "I wonder what he [i.e. Theodeon] is thinking here: 'Let's see, I fed the cat. Did I turn off the gas?"

[sam7777]

Tim: Too true. Hollywood quickly sucks the talent out of the best of them and the effect is enhanced in those born and bred in the industry A talented Writer-Director-Producer certainly has nothing to fear from the actor's ideas and input.



For me, Andy Serkis was a real hoot in the commentary track. Not wanting to give anything away so I recommend just listening to him on the actor's track. The actors also proved to be msually talented. Billy Boyd wh played Pippin made up his song for that wonderful scene where he sings to Denthor as we see Faramir ride off to his death (I think the lyrics were from Tolkien bu the tune was Billy's). Viggo Mortenson created the tune for the song he sings and it was his idea to do it as Aragorn does in the book. Viggo and Billy are credited with their tunes in the credits to boot. PJ didn't have time to do everything so he often trusted his actors like Billy to do the song or Andy Serkis to direct the scene between Deagol and Smeagol. The movie is so much richer for everyone's contributions and I'm so glad he listened to his actors rather than insist they just speak the lines as written which would have been hard as they were reworking the script the whole time. Also can't forget that Liv Tyler sang the song during the Houses of Healing scene. She has a beautiful voice and a singing pedigree being the daughter of Aerosmith's Steve Tyler.

Edited by: sam7777  at: 1/3/05 9:57 am

[urnofosiris]

Oh she did? I got to watch it again and I just did a LotR marathon yesterday. Oy, I won´t be doing that again anytime soon I can tell you that.



Edit: Just listened to it, she should be a singer too, damn, what a lovely voice with a unique sound. I liked her very much already and I am a sucker for women who can sing really well so this makes me like her all the more.





Btw, Gandalf is not a Dutch word, maybe it was an abbreviation of some kind, but I can´t imagine the creator of that magazine not being aware of what Gandalf is really known for.

Edited by: DrG at: 1/1/05 2:26 am

[sam7777]

Ahh Liv!! Poor Eowyn never had a chance vis a vis Arwen being played by Liv. I like the idea of having Liv sing over the houses of helaing scenes as it links Eowyn and Arwen.



hird Lord of the Rings film voted 2004's top film in BBC poll

Quote:

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``The Lord Of The Rings: The Return Of The King'' _ the third film based on the trilogy by J.R.R. Tolkien _ has been voted best film of the year in a poll for the British Broadcasting Corp. television program ``Film 2004,'' hosted by Jonathan Ross.



The two previous Lord of the Rings films, ``The Two Towers'' and ``The Fellowship Of The Ring,'' took the title in 2002 and 2003 respectively.

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_____________________

I still see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 1/3/05 9:56 am