Law & Order

[oneyedchicklet]

I think this is the first year that L&O didn't get a nomination for Outstanding Drama in its 14 year run. It is, however, the longest running drama on television to date though.

I personally can't handle CI because Vincent Donofrio seems to be such a know it all one minute, then a big baby the next.

But SUV and the original are two of my favorites. I haven't missed any of those eps. And by the way, Casey is still growing on me. My favorite seen with her is when she went to get a judges signature on a warrant at his house and all the judges were there playing poker. Her comment was something like "I've had this dream before but you were all naked."



Love to All,

Barb

Now serving Bitter, party of one. Your table is ready.

[xita]

Dr. Idgie, casey and olivia? I believe i am excited about this show again!

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."

[BBOvenGuy]

Jerry Orbach passed away yesterday of prostate cancer. He was 69.



I hope they give Lennie a funeral scene on the original L&O.

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[xita]

I hope they do, he is Law & Order as much as anyone. This is really sad.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."

[BBOvenGuy]

If they did do a funeral scene, I'll bet they could get a bunch of real NYPD officers to play extras in it. According to the CNN obituary, Jesse L. Martin says Jerry was wildly popular with them.



Two things I didn't know - he won a Tony Award for his role in "Promises, Promises" in 1968, and in 2002 he was named a "living landmark" by the New York Landmark Conservancy.

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[Munchkin]

Now that is just .. sad.



Despite the initial confusion of Jerry Orbach's re-appearing in L&O's Third Season as a regular after a guest appearance as a (hilariously) snarky Defense Attorney (!) the previous season (i.e. the one where Shirley Knight's character killed her ex-husband and his younger girlfriend and tried to claim "emotional distress" as her defense), I too warmed to his crusty Det. Lennie Briscoe almost immediately and now see the actor and character as a irreplaceable part of L&O itself. Even if he wasn't as well-served by the scripts near the end, nor had one final team-up with De-tec-tive Munch that always livened things up whenever there was a crossover between Homicide, original L&O and SVU to feature those two trading wisecracks with each other. Truly the end of an era.

________



Dave C.

Edited by: Munchkin at: 12/29/04 4:49 pm

[oneyedchicklet]

I think they should have a funeral for Lennie and bring back the cast who worked with him. Chris Noth, Benjamin Bratt et al. Obviously, Jill Hennessy couldn't be there since she died in the car wreck while riding with Lennie. They should also have the other cast members of SVU and CI in it. That would be a proper farewell.



Love to All,

Barb

Now serving Bitter, party of one. Your table is ready.

[skittles]

When Michael Conrad died, the Hill Street Blues character Sgt. Phil Esterhaus died "in the saddle" and the show celebrated & mourned his passing.



I hope that L&O does the same or better.

skittles



"The problem with political jokes is how often they get elected."



"Closed minds always seem to be connected to open mouths"

[urnofosiris]

The storyline of Esterhaus dying during sex with his nymphomanic girlfriend amused me. I had no idea the actor had died for real back then. I wonder whether HB´s creators had discussed how they would handle it on the show should he die. It may sound a bit morbid, but with this disease it is often clear when hope is gone and the end is near and I can imagine that the actors would initiate a discussion about how to end their character´s story as part of getting their affairs in order. It would not surprise me, especially considering how long he (Jerry Orbach) played his character. He should get a proper goodbye.

[BBOvenGuy]

Briscoe was written out of the original series because they wanted him on the new series, Trial by Jury. However, part of the deal was that it would give Orbach an easier schedule, which would make sense if he was undergoing treatment for cancer.



Yahoo!News reports that six episodes of Trial by Jury are already in the can, and Briscoe is in "as many as half of them."

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[Sheridan]

He really does deserve a send off in the show as I'm sure the character of Lenny Briscoe played a big part in giving L&O its amazing longevity, not to mention all the spin offs. Prior to L&O Jerry Orbach seemed to be one of those actors who popped up as a guest star on almost every show, he was even a recurring on 'Murder She Wrote' playing a PI.

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am

[skittles]

Re: Jerry Orbach on Murder She Wrote



I believe that his character might have been put on there as a possible spin off.... a testing of the television ratings waters.... so to speak.



I'm glad that it didn't work out & we got him on L&O for such a long time!!



Jerry Orbach was a real trouper & a professional when it came to working. He showed that by how long he stayed on L&O when others came & went.



ETA: just watched tonight's L&O, after the "dick wolf", they did a musical slide show of Jerry Orbach... for all of 15 seconds. the music was a instrumental of "Try to Remember" which JO sang on Broadway.



I hope they do more to remember him than that.

skittles



"The problem with political jokes is how often they get elected."



"Closed minds always seem to be connected to open mouths"

Edited by: skittles at: 1/5/05 7:59 pm

[oneyedchicklet]

Yes Skittles I agree. I saw the clips and thought it was nice but I hope they give him a proper farewell on the show. I watch Criminal Intent on Sunday and right before they flashed "excutive producer Dick Wolf" on the screen, it simple said "For Jerry" which I thought was sweet.



Next week is Serena's last episode.



Love to All,

Barb

Now serving Bitter, party of one. Your table is ready.

Edited by: oneyedchicklet at: 1/6/05 5:22 am

[lustandrhymeremover]

That was random.... and waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of left field. It was very, "awwww, poor Serena. Don't let it - wait. What? " Where in the world did that come from. Although, thinking on it.... I knew there was a reason she was always one of my favorite ADA's

Some people think I'm unnatural, but what do they call their hair-color then?

[TyRex316]

O'kay-they've had four years to at least mention this in passing and the day we find out about it is her last ep on the show. Hey, thanks for nothing Dick Wolf. But that ending conversation took one heck of turn.

[oneyedchicklet]

I actually had to rewind it to see if I heard what I thought I heard. Talk about a random ending. I was floored. All I can say is GO SERENA!!!

I guess she was one of the few ADA's that wasn't sleeping with McCoy!!!



Love to All,

Barb

Now serving Bitter, party of one. Your table is ready.

[emma peel]

Darn, I missed the ep due to work. What the heck happened??

[anyone somewhere]

I almost saw that ending coming because of a few different episodes that come to mind. I was really hoping they'd say something like that at the end because I was almost positive. Actually I had thought that they had acknowledged it when she had first started on the show but apperently not because of the surprise.



There was the episode where a woman was murdered by a guy who was in all reality stalking her. Serena was the first to pick up on the woman's "not so straight" choices; the whole reason, actually why the woman was killed.



Another episode that comes right to mind, and the episode where It got me started thinking about Serena's sexual preference was one of the newer episodes, from the current season I think, about the governer and his gay lover. It was a "ripped from the headlines" episode and I remember that Jack was saying something about gay marriage shouldn't be legal or something and Serena went off on him. She left that case for him to go alone because the comment offended her so.



The only thing that sucks is that since this was Serena's last episode we won't be able to watch to see if there would have been any more to her story, but I'm glad that for once I wasn't reading too much into the character and I like that they actually acknowleged the issue. Too bad there wasn't anyone around for me to tell. I was so excited. Oh well.



~Rachel

[xita]

Dude, this is so lame, I may have to like officially be pissed at this franchise. They have had so many chances to make one of their women lesbian and they don't do it. The chicken shits do it retroactively. Fucking lame. Now if someone criticizes them for not having gay characters they can say, sure we did. lame

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."

[BBOvenGuy]

You've got to be kidding. The lesbian bit was just thrown in out of nowhere???



I taped the show because I was still on my way back from choir rehearsal when it started, but I caught the ending just to make sure Serena wasn't being killed off. (For some reason, I've become paranoid about that sort of thing...) I was wondering if the subject had come up during the episode - now you're telling me it didn't? Yeesh.



On the bright side, both Richard Brooks and Carey Lowell have made guest appearances as their former ADAs turned defense attorneys advocating causes. Maybe Elisabeth will get to bring Serena back as well.

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[Ghostwriter]

Rachel, I totally agree with you. I had always thought Serena was a lesbian. In the episode with the gay Governor I actually thought she was going to come out when she was going off on Jack. It just seemed like that scene was missing something. With that said I was very surprised at the end of last nights episode. I never would have thought that they would have "outed" a character. They wasted so many chances by waiting till the actress was leaving the show. Oh well is all I can say about that. (If I said more it might turn into a rant) Maybe they'll bring another gay character in and this time we'll know sooner!

[anyone somewhere]

Ghostwriter - yeah I really thought that that was the episode she was going to come out in. I was waiting and was actually confused when she didn't.



As to the issue about Serena not being a popular character, I loved the character and I think even moreso after I had suspected her of being a lesbian. I was waiting for them to address the issue more but all I found was more subtext.



I had never heard her reference a male significant other (or female for that matter) at all and I thought that was a bit off compared to the numerous references of the other character's partners.



~Rachel

Edited by: anyone somewhere at: 1/13/05 4:38 pm

[Gatito Grande]

I haven't watched this show in years (I think I left when Carey Lowell did), but just learned about this "revelation" online.



xita, wouldn't you say that this maybe qualifies (under some subheading or other) for The Cliche' list? Outing, just as she leaves? (And considering the fact that---as I've heard, even w/o watching the show anymore---that her character was considered wildly unpopular?)



GG W/ the caveat that I haven't seen the show (the exact script, scene, context), but her saying "Is it because I'm a lesbian?"---when nobody liked her anyway---suggests that cries of "HOMOPHOBIA!" are just covers for incompetence. Wonderful message: way to go, "Dick". Out

[BBOvenGuy]

I don't think Serena was especially unpopular. A lot of people complained about her when she first started, but that happens every time they change cast members on Law & Order. Just watch - before the end of the season, you'll see people complaining that the new character is no Serena and the new actress is no Elisabeth Rohm.

"The stories we tell - that's us explaining how we think the world works. Once we speak it, once we say it aloud, that makes it real for us - and real for everyone else who hears it too. When we tell a story, we invite people to visit our reality. We invite them to move in. Our stories are the reality we live in." - David Gerrold, The Martian Child

[maudmac]

I think, assuming they've intended Serena to be a lesbian all along, they could've dropped a few more hints. I mean, in the episode before this one, they've got her talking about that contractor guy and saying something about how you have to be a woman to understand the allure of the "bad boy" to women. That doesn't necessarily indicate anything, of course, because I would say the same thing to two men who were wondering why a woman would be attracted to a man like that. I would say, "Hey, some women like that bad boy type." I know this not because I am a straight woman, but because I know women. However, without any further comment, it could easily lead one to believe a woman is speaking from her own experience.



I never suspected a thing about her sexuality. It's been obvious for some time that she is often at odds with the DA's office on issues like who should be charged with which crimes, exactly; it's obvious she is less "law and order" than McCoy, and much less so than Branch. I always took her differences of opinion to indicate a difference in politics or just that she has a different perspective on criminal justice. I agree with Branch about that issue - she's far more suited to advocacy.



But I digress...



It felt cheap and out-of-the-blue to me. If they were going for a shock there at the end, it was enough of a shock to me that Branch fired her. The whole lesbian thing just felt tacked on.



Is it good? Is it bad? I don't know, really. I could argue that it's good because it forces the viewer to realize that a character they've known for four years has been a lesbian all that time and that, whether they like her or dislike her, it had nothing to do with her sexuality. It reinforces the notion that sexuality shouldn't be a factor in one's opinion of others.



I could argue that it's bad because we lost four years of lesbian (and general queer) visibility on one of the most-watched television shows on the air today. It would have been a piece of cake for them to toss one or two unambiguous tidbits into a few episodes. A handful of lines or less in four years. That way, we (the audience) would know she's a lesbian and we would still get to see that it's of little or no consequence - she's still the lawyer she is, the person she is, regardless of her sexuality.



I don't know what their point was in doing it the way they did, but I feel robbed.

---

make some room now dig what you see

[Gatito Grande]

I don't have an opinion on Elizabeth Rohm's portrayal of Serena (I've never seen her). I always liked E.R. on "that other show."



But I'm just saying, whenever I've heard her discussed "in the popular media" (TV Guide, newspaper/magazine TV critics, and such), it's always been negatively (over several years: not just a first season thing). I've never heard a critic say "I like Elizabeth Rohm" or "Lay off Elizabeth Rohm!" I'm not saying there aren't defenders out there---as there are here---but I've just never heard them (And, as I've enjoyed her before, I would remember favorable reviews if I'd seen them).



Here's a typical example (courtesy of Gillian Flynn Of Entertainment Weekly):

Quote:

---

Otherwise, it's business as usual: Detective Green (Jesse L. Martin) is still calm and cool; Jack McCoy (Sam Waterston) is still indignant; that wry, redheaded coroner (Leslie Hendrix) is still, after 13 years, speaking about three lines an episode; and Serena Southerlyn is, courtesy of Elisabeth Rohm, still pretty wooden. (The actress is leaving midseason; may we suggest Nip/Tuck's wonderfully bitchy sexaholic Jessalyn Gilsig as a replacement?)

---

GG Chicago Hope did something like this w/ Vondie Curtis Hall's character---out him late in the game (w/ no further mention of it, IIRC)---but at least his character wasn't leaving in the very episode in which he came out! Out

[xita]

I think that suspecting her of being a lesbian is really no reason to say they portrayed her as a lesbian. Let's think about this, what woman on the Law and Orders couldn't possibly be a lesbian? Abbie? Olivia? Alex? Casey? I mean really, an arugment could be made for all of them. Unless they make it textual it doesn't count. It's lame. And my understanding and from what I have read online, Elizabeth and her character were not liked.

- - - - - - - - - - -
"Trust is a risk masquerading as a promise."

[Ghostwriter]

For me personally I never liked the character of Serena. She always looked like she was surprised to me. Part of the reason I didn't like her could have been because I was half in love with Angie Harmon. . Which was unfair to the character and the actress. But the producers/writers also didn't help much either. Someone asked me today if I had changed my mind about the character because she came out. That kind of took me by surprise. Why would I change my mind because I found out she was a lesbian 60 seconds before she left? I thought it was an interesting "twist" but that doesn't change how I felt about the character. I agree with you Xita suspecting and portraying are very separate things. The producers could have made it textual sooner. But they choose to wait until the last 90 seconds of the actress' last episode. It's a cop out.

Edited by: Ghostwriter at: 1/14/05 2:55 pm

[BBOvenGuy]

Okay, I finally watched my tape over the weekend, and I have to say that it's the worst character write-out I've ever seen Law & Order do - and that includes the write-out for Dianne Wiest, who didn't even get one.



It comes out of nowhere - there's only the meagerest of lines in the episode about Serena disagreeing with her bosses all the time. I thought Serena was going to throw a case or something in an act of civil disobediance, but no. She just gripes a little and gets canned for it. What's more, it makes Arthur Branch look like a jerk, which isn't a good thing to do given that he'll continue to be on the original series and will be popping up on the spinoffs as well. And then of course there's the lesbian line, which just looks tacked on for no other purpose than to get a reaction out of people.



And what's most disappointing is that the production staff has known Elisabeth Rohm was leaving for at least six months. You'd think they could have done a better job of setting it up.



All in all, one of the true low points in this show's long history.

"...what we leave behind us is, in fact, not our opinions but our examples." - Christopher Isherwood

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 1/17/05 12:57 pm

[Munchkin]

While we're at it with D.A. Branch being made to look bad, Jack McCoy didn't look so great either in his complete non-defense of Serena's "passionate advocism", which makes him look more like Branch's puppet instead of the "rebellious crusader" McCoy's been made out to be for the last decade.



But then again, I always preferred Ben Stone and his subtle, understated pursuit of actual justice rather than just winning, right down to Stone demeaning the defendents by calling them "sir" as opposed to McCoy's going on his long-winded rants about Big Issues that could either bore the jury into a mistrial or angering the Judge into overturning the "guilty" verdict.



For instance, that awful gun-control episode that started Season Ten ("Gunshow") where McCoy plea-bargained the murderer of 15 women in the park just so he could go after the Evil Gun Manufacturer that Made a Handgun so Easily Changeable to Automatic. I have to wonder that if Jack McCoy caught Stone's Season Three case where the Mexican college student killed his rich white girlfriend with a metal pipe and tried to hide behind his poverty-ridden background as an excuse ("Forgiveness"), McCoy would've blamed the Pipe Company for making their product such a ready-made murder weapon and pleaded down the killer to ensure his truthful testimony. Given the lazy, heavy-handed, "issue"-fixated writing of the present L&O, I don't doubt it.



So combined with Jerry Orbach's untimely death, Dennis Farina being disappointingly average as his successor, the total lameness of Serena's departure, and the horrifying preview of the next episode showing her replacement as an incompetent rookie who almost blows her first case with McCoy (even Claire Kincaid got 3 episodes before her first screw-up in that rape-case with the scummy rock-star), I think I can safely say that Law & Order has finally reached its nadir as a credible TV show and couldn't care less if it was cancelled soon. Which makes it all the more sad when I tune into that odd Season 1-4 rerun and ask myself, "What in the hell ever happened to that show?"



And I still miss good old Adam Schiff.

________



Dave C.

Edited by: Munchkin at: 1/17/05 1:35 pm