Gaydar Discussion Thread

[Lindy]

Niceness of breasts, eh? Can't deny that



Yeah, anyways, My indexfingers are both longer than my ringfingers are.. and I am a happy lesbian with all that implies. Please don't look for finger length as an indicator.. or I'd never get a date *fake cry*.



But, on the other hand (ah ah, what a pun), if a girl stares long enough at my fingers maybe I should take that as a hint.. hee.

*********

Buffy: Kill the bad fairy... destroy the bad fairy's
powercenter, whatever, and all the troubles go away? ...

World is what it is. We fight. We die. Wishing
doesn't change that.

Giles: I have to believe in a better world.

[dizzysyd]

Quote:

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It compared the finger lengths of lesbians to straight women, and found that lesbians, unlike straight women, tended to have index fingers that were shorter than their ring fingers.

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that is too funny...on my right hand, the two fingers are exactly the same length. and i'm bi. go figure.



also, my gaydar seems to be dead-on most of the time. it's hard to explain, but with lesbians, something about the eyes gives it away, and with men -- a lot of gay men have "elton lip" (look at the way elton john's upper lip kinda comes up on either side).



my best friend (well, one of them) is a gay straight guy. he has a boyfriend, but doesn't identify with the gay culture at all. yet he seems to think that every man he sees is gay. i pointed it out to him the last time we went somewhere after he said it 5 times in a row. i just told him he was wishful thinking.

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"everything happens for reasons that she will never understand

'til she knows the heart of a woman will never be found in the arms of a man"

- vanessa carlton

Edited by: dizzysyd  at: 7/15/02 6:13:06 am

[carte blanche]

As a straight girl, I can say that I'm spot-on recognizing gay guys, but not in a checklist way.

I think when you're interacting with someone you send out different sorts of messages (like body language) and they reply so that you know in a matter of seconds if he's single, interested, etc. and with the gay guys they resonate this friendly vibe that I know (and they know) tells me they're gay. So maybe the gaydar works if the person wants to let you know?



and the finger thing is weird, because I have loner index finger when my palms are face up but not down.

Giles: "Xander, please don't speak Latin in front of the books."

[xita]

I do believe you can develop gaydar. Sure there are stereotypes and that often is effective. However there is the more subtle way in which people interact with you and others. If you are in tune with that, you can often figure out sexuality. Although, never fully trust the gaydar. It can lead you into wrong places. In general use it to meet friends, but don't use it to decide if you should like engage this person romantically.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

"Oooh Xita!" - Amber Benson

[Dumbsaint]

Count me as another example of 'the finger thing' not working. It's a crock, I tell ya.



And a shame, too, really- 'cause yanno, usually finger things work out so well for me...

"It's not real. I mean, there are no vampires, there are no witches. Well, there are Wiccans, but they're not making out with Alyson, so..." -Amber Benson

[tommo]

I actually think that subtlety is the key. Usually I can spot gay people really well, because I listen to them and you can generally hear the semantics of gayness, if you like.



Of course, I often don't notice because I'm as camp as a row of tents myself.

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TARA: ...didn't think she liked my fucking until I realized that that was her yummy face

[slayer747]

Quote:

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Tatooing 'gay now' on my forehead...hmmm....y'know, that might actually work.

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LOL.. good idea... great idea. i mean, for me. cause some of my friends have an idea about my gayness but they refuse to believe it cause i'm not butch. apparently, here in my country if you don't have a mullet you are automatically straight.

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[semiramis]

Oh my god, you must live in Australia too (that was a joke, you can laugh)



Perhaps a tasteful pink triangle on the upper arm?

I've given up, I've worn everything from freedom rings to labrys earrings to a naked woman on a chain around my neck.....



I'm still picked as a fag hag.....

[slayer747]

know what, i actually (already) have a rainbow pin button on my backpack and on my notebook i have this huge thing saying "fight homophobia" but... well, if they don't see me as gay, fine. better for me, i guess. no pressures. i also think it is me being a feminist that makes them think i am straight. they think all gay people want to become the other sex.



anyway, i am considering another visit to the US, but hey, australia... why not? LOL... cause i actually live in manila.



and sorry for being a total *dumbass*... but what is a fag hag exactly? is it a woman who constantly hangs around with gay guys or something. apparently, my gay lingo is another thing to work on... especially those ones in english... we have a totally different language in here. hope you don't mind explaining that to me...

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[Lindy]

I really wish some straight people would.. uhm.. open their eyes before they open their mouth, really.



Last time in a bar with a couple of friends, male and female. Two bi, two gay, one straight (he says lol) Anyways, it was a regular bar, open for all, no rainbow flag outside.. or inside. So, there comes this extra blond guy.. I dunno if that means anything, but it sticked out, really. And he comes to me and whispers "Hey, could it be that this is.. ya know.. a bar for.. uhm.. gays? Cos I see hardly any chicks." And the way he said gays really showed his opinion about 'those type of ppl'. So I looked at him and just shook my head no. And this moron just didn't stop hitting on me.



Almost the same thing happened to me in a bar downtown in Manhattan last year, and this bar had rainbow flags hanging around almost everywhere and I was there with a girl. So.. uhm..



I vote for 'gaydar for everyone', really. Or, I gotta buy me some lesbo street cred somewhere.

*********

Buffy: Kill the bad fairy... destroy the bad fairy's
powercenter, whatever, and all the troubles go away? ...

World is what it is. We fight. We die. Wishing
doesn't change that.

Giles: I have to believe in a better world.

[slayer747]

that's a nice idea. i really hope that would exist, so that people will learn how/when to shut their mouths and not offend anyone...

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[dizzysyd]

Quote:

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but what is a fag hag exactly? is it a woman who constantly hangs around with gay guys or something.

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From what I understand, "fag hag" has a good meaning and a bad meaning. The bad meaning implying that a woman hangs around gay men because she wants to "convert them" and date them. The good just meaning a woman who has a lot of gay male friends. Margaret Cho has built her entire comedy routine on being a fag hag (there's a wonderful excerpt from her book here). Then there's "Will & Grace", which I think is a great example of (the good version of) that kind of relationship. I'm a Grace with two Wills. I love them deeply, and we are connected on a deep emotional level. We say we share a brain cell. So if you mean it in a good way, yes, I'm a fag hag and proud of it. If you mean it in the bad way? Hee! Riiiiiiight.

---

"everything happens for reasons that she will never understand

'til she knows the heart of a woman will never be found in the arms of a man"

- vanessa carlton

[melissande]

Oh dizzysyd,



What a beautiful link to post. I thought "I'm The One That I Want" got a bit tedious as a movie, but this is one kick-ass piece of writing and makes me want this book, like, pronto. This is the apex of what faghagdom can be.



I have been the companion of many a beautiful gay man, and there's nothing to match the instant comfort of having my bitchy glamour-puss side celebrated instead of trivialized. Whether you are a man or a woman, there is something about being a girly girl that rankles many a humorless soul. Other women have found me suspect for my lipstickiness, my skirt-wearing screw-the-sensible-shoes habits, but never the gay men I have loved.



One of my closest friends at work is gay, and we have so much fun taking the piss out of our dour, conservative corporate culture in the cattiest of ways. We construct elaborate, improbable scenarios involving the most tiresome people in our office: so-and-so from human resources has a genital piercing and insists on giving new hires a flashlight to get a good look. Her officemate drinks highballs, smokes ciggies, and seduces fresh-faced boys straight out of college with outrageous comments voiced like Bette Davis (I play the naive student, he plays Bette Davis). Not exactly a revolution that will change the world, but a relationship that boosts my sense of fun and power in what's often a joyless and powerless position. I love him and all my gay male friends for the laughs and, when things seem really grim, for the endless reserves of sympathy that only those who've had the shit habitually kicked out of them can provide.



So that's my long OT paeon to glory of a good straight-girl/gay-fellow alliance. It doesn't change the fact that my instant gaydar detection ring runs about as well as a Barbie Trans Am. Go figure.

[relativegirl]

hieronyma happened to mention

Quote:

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a perfectly reasonable reaction to the niceness of breasts

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I find I have these perfectly reasonable reactions all the time.

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[semiramis]

Wow dizzysyd, I really enjoyed that piece by Margaret Cho.

I'm now going to proudly refer to myself as a femme lesbian faghag!



And too bad about everybody else's gayday not reacting to me.

[willow vixen]

...sorry skipping a bunch of posts before repling...



i'm convinced my gaydar doesn't work half the time...and when i do actually find myself drawn to a woman - most likely i would have no clue if they are family or not. very frustrating indeed. someone needs to come up with a hand signal or something.

[friskylez]

Okie dokie. let me put the "butches have mullet cuts" rumor to rest...No mullet here, not even a crew cut, just short spiky hair...Stereotypes abound even in the lesbian community...(Heavy Sigh) Leaving now, didnt mean to go off on a tangent....

"Pride that dines on vanity sups on contempt"

[slayer747]

ME TOO... i am a femme lesbian fag hag as well... yay!

------------
"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[semiramis]

Well that makes at least 2 of us slayer747! We are out, proud and girly, even if we don't seem to have a lot of lesbo street cred.



And to friskylez, I don't think anyone is putting down the short spiky hair/mullet/crew cut, it's just that for those of us who don't have a "standard dyke look" we find that we just don't set off the gaydar like those who do......I know that stereotyping other members of the community who are comfortable with that style has much offensive potential. However I find that they way I represent myself usually has the effect of me being stereotyped right out of the lesbian community......if that makes sense.....

[slayer747]

it does make sense (though i know your question isn't intended for me... i reply). though i am really athletic (wall climbing, basketball, tennis, badminton)... i am girly still. i go out on salon appointments (heheh) and i am no way changing that... i am comfortble with it, i am just a little worried of not being able to send any vibes to other lesbians, it kinda limits the chances to flirt and get out on dates. so i guess, i'll just have to be the one to make the first move.

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"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[semiramis]

Well, that makes you a braver woman than me slayer747! As well as being handily in my time zone (you being in the Philippines, me in Oz)



I'm still hoping that my princess will ride up in a nice car and sweep me off my feet. Those fairy stories have a lot to answer for pffffffft!

[kukalaka]

Quote:

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a perfectly reasonable reaction to the niceness of breasts

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You know, I like that bit better every time I read it

[mscheckmate]

Whew. Slayer, you are so my type.



Too bad I live in the US, I'm not single, and I'm probably just about old enough to be your mother.



Seriously, you'll find someone. And it will probably happen when you least expect it, and after you've stopped looking so hard for Ms. Right. In the meantime, just go out and enjoy yourself. Enjoy being yourself, and see what happens.

Xander: "Tara, nice axing." Tara: "My first."

[tommo]

Oh, fag hags... That's marvellous. I often get mistaken for a straight girl because most of my gay friends are men. In fact, when I first met my gayboys, they thought I was straight because they said I was too bitchy to be a lesbian. Heh. How wrong they were...



So yeah, I guess I'm a fag hag too. But I like it. I'm just me, you know? Doesn't make for the easily identifiable gayness though. But that's not really an issue for me, I suppose.

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It's dirty. It's all dirty. And all
over me. Dirty, dirty, bad. Bad!

[friskylez]

"just that for those of us who don't have a "standard dyke look" we find that we just don't set off the gaydar like those who do......I know that stereotyping other members of the community who are comfortable with that style has much offensive potential".



Ok i know there are some young lesbians who are new at discovering who they are that post here, so let me just say as best I can that identifying as as "butch" is NOT about having a "standard dyke look" or a "style"...You want to know what "butch/femme" is all about ask me, i was gonna post a big long reply but

im to tired....



There are alot of diverse and varied groups within the gay and lesbian community, butches, femmes, transexuals, transgender, drag queens and more and none of those are styles..Its just who the person is..

"Pride that dines on vanity sups on contempt"

Edited by: friskylez  at: 7/17/02 3:14:57 pm

[semiramis]

To friskylez

Perhaps I should explain where I am coming from. I live in Australia, in Sydney, and from my 10 years of experience in the lesbian scene here, it is VERY much about style. For the "mainstream" lesbian community it really seems to be a case of "if you don't wear the uniform, you can't play on the team".

Butch and femme is almost non existent here, I should know, I have more than a passing interest in those dynamics myself

I'm also well aware that being butch is not about a look. What I am referring to is the peer pressure in my particular community to conform to a certain look that tends towards a more "butch" expression. To be femme here is to be almost invisible. One friend femmed up for a party, then went to a local bar & was treated with contempt by all the women in the club. The men, however, told her she looked fabulous. Upon returning next week dressed in a more "andro", she was seriously chatted up. What does that say?

I'm not saying that any style is inherently better than any other, I'm just trying to explain that in my particular community, being femme automatically creates invisibility. Just as being femme is "who I am", I know that being anything else is who "other people are".

I also know that I get damn tired of people assuming I'm a straight woman just because I have long hair and wear dresses...

[friskylez]

Semiramis, My apologies if i seemed a little harsh...I guess in a way its a case of being misunderstood within our own community...To be femme there is to be almost non existent? Man those women there must be nuts, there aint nuttin like a femme

"Pride that dines on vanity sups on contempt"

Edited by: friskylez  at: 7/17/02 5:47:56 pm

[semiramis]

Hi there again friskylez (shouldn't you be asleep, isn't it Wednesday night there?)

I'm glad to hear that you appreciate femmes, cause I get precious little of that here in Sydney. I've been told by European and American dykes that I'd be a "hit" in their communities, but here I am just some weirdo who won't cut her hair or buy her clothes from boys surf retailers (with my somewhat Rubenesque figure, I'd look really daft!)

All the other self identified femmes I know suffer the same ignorance and invisibility. I was even told once that I'd never get laid until I cut my hair.......*I* don't care how other women look, I pretty much think they are all cute

I do however find more acceptance both within the Asian lesbian community and the leather community, so you can guess who I hang with

[friskylez]

Well its actually a little after 6pm here in Arizona, so im not asleep yet

Hmm an interesting combo the lesbian Asian community and the leather community, both wonderfully, wise groups in that they are accepting of you

Since i got so far off topic, ill get back on topic (hmm there is a pun there somewhere ) Im with the folks who said it is about the interaction between the people, thats really the only way to tell.. Another way is to just ask or flirt

and see what happens, worst case scenario, the woman is flattered but says she is straight or she slaps ya

"Pride that dines on vanity sups on contempt"

[Kieli]

Good heavens, so what does that make me?? I love my baseball caps, T-shirts, jeans and sneakers but I can wear silk Tommy Bahamas and Hugo Boss with the best of 'em My wife thinks that I am such a fashion slut. However, I REFUSE to wear pink, chartreuse or anything that resembles a mini-skirt. I would scare people into fits

Love is tricky. It is never mundane or daily. You can never get used to it. You have to walk with it, then let it walk with you. You can never balk. It moves you like the tide. It takes you out to sea then lays you on the beach again. Today's struggling pain is the foundation for a certain stride through the heavens. You can run from it but you can never say no. It includes everyone."--Amy Tan "The Hundred Secret Senses"