The Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Trans/Questioning/Issues Thread

[relativegirl]

Of the 50 states in the good ol' US of A we have the grand total of one in which same-sex civil unions (which do not convey all of the rights and priviliges of a marriage) are legal.



Here's a link to a page that has a pretty nice summary of the different options available in other countries: www.religioustolerance.org/hom_mar4.htm

[Repost Moderator]

originally posted by vix84



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey kitties



I'm going for the first time to the UK and Europe, at the end of this year, for about 5 months. I sort of see it as (and I'm embarassed to admit this) a 'questioning period'. In my little home town, I have no way to experiment with the gradually evident fact that I am bi/lesbian.



While I'm away, I'd like to sort of check out the gay scene, and see how I like it. Maybe it'll help me work a few things out.



So if anyone has any places (whether clubs, pubs, or the most unusual or even dull places...anything u can think of!) where i meet be able to meet bi/les women/girls (I'm 18), I'd be really grateful.



Thanks

[tommo]

Well most major cities in the UK have some sort of gay area, or at least, gay clubs and pubs. You can find out about these by getting the Time Out guides either to the UK or to the city itself. When you decide which cities you're going to, then you can probably narrow it down a bit more. There are plenty of kittens from all over the UK so I'm sure that they will be able to direct you towards appropriate places.

----------
Squish. Squish. Squish.

[kukalaka]

OK, I just feel the need to express my feelings, maybe I'll really post it, maybe I won't.



I feel like being on an emotional rollercoaster right now. Sometimes I'm completely sure, I'm gay. And sometimes I've got big doubts. I don't have any real reasons to doubt, it's more like: "So, what if you're not? How can you be sure? Isn't it kind of stupid to tell people as long as there's the possibility that it's not even true?"



I'm actually afraid of not being gay. How weird is that?



So, did you tell (a lot of) people before being completely sure?

Is there anything I can do against these doubts (besides getting a girlfriend as that is kind of obvious)?

Do I make any sense at all?

[witchbitchwillow]

i know exactly how you feel, thats why i only told my close mates that i was fully gay and told everyone else that i was bi-sexual. im pretty sure that i am gay but im still young and things can change. i dont think that you should worry about it to much, just go with the flow and follow your heart. you dont have to completely label yourself.



just a little bit of advice.



i went through this a couple days ago and this was the conclusion that i came up with. hope that it helps!



love ellie x x x x

*thats me as a vampire im so evil and skanky and i think im kinda gay*

*no candles? well i brought one its extra flamey!*

[Ittybittykitty]

I totally understand what you''re talking about.

[Lola19]

Yup another here who knows what your going through. Especially about the being scared of not being gay! I cant explain it but its weird to be so scared of your feelings but then again scared if you didnt feel this way.

I think they way i look at it is, iv had a couple of boyfriends, but i always ended things because there was something missing so if im not gay, is this how all relationships are? If that makes any sense. As for telling people, iv only told one friend and she knows im just down right confused. Or was, since coming to the Kitten board, there has been so many lovely people willing to listen and it has helped me come to the conclusion that yes, i am gay.

So, kukalaka, As iv been told, there is no rush to knowing who you are and take your time. Tell people if and when your ready.

I dont think im ready although i would love to tell more people.

So many people here are so kind so if you ever need anyone, this is the place. I'll always be here if you ever need to talk. Its good to talk iv learned.

Love and hugs to you

Louise xxx

[Thanatopsis]

All right, so this isn't a questiong/confused issue per say. A good friend of mine recently decided to "consider" himself gay. I say "consider" because the way he explained it to me when I asked is as if he wants to wear a pair of boots for a while to make sure they're comfortable before he buys them. I have no problem with that, anyway a person deals with their sexuality, I'm not gonna question because I'm not them, so I don't know how they feel about stuff, right? My problem is that because of his recent foray into homosexuality, he feels it gives him the right to make really distasteful and offensive comments that I find pretty iinappropriate as a woman and a lesbian and if he were to say them to a stranger, he'd be lucky to get away with just getting punched. He seems to delight in being disgusting. What makes this even more odd is that in between these comments, he then makes very raunchy sexually suggestive comments to me, that can only be defined as sexual harassment material. The problem is I can't call him on this stuff because he'll get very defensive and angry. I know this because his roommate, who is openly gay, has called him on gay jokes and he isn't talking to him this week. I've been avoiding him for the past few days but that can only last so long. I don't want to stop hanging out with him, but being with him just makes me uncomfortable and it takes every ounce of self restraint not to say or do something about it. Anyone have any suggestions?

-----------------

Uh, um... various sounds of
hesitation...

Edited by: Thanatopsis at: 6/24/02 2:56:09 am

[xita]

He is not your friend if you aren't able to call him on things. You should confront him but make it clear to him that it doesn't mean you hate him, just that you don't feel comfortable when he acts like that.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: (to Tara) I could heal.

Tara: (to Willow)And we’re gone.

[tommo]

You're a very understanding friend vis a vis his attitude towards being gay. That's the first observation I made when reading your post.



The next observation is that someone who is a "friend" should respect other people's boundaries, particularly someone they're close to. If what he is saying is making you uncomfortable, then I think you need to tell him just that. That it makes you uncomfortable. You're not "calling him on it" or asking him to change his behaviour per se, but what you are doing is asking him to look closely at what he's said and how it affects you. Hopefully then he might stop that kind of talk altogether.



Hope that helps a bit.

----------
Squish. Squish. Squish.

[kukalaka]

Thx to everyone. I'm probably trying too hard not to worry



I'll probably move to another (bigger!) town next fall and I hope to get to know some new people there. I think that's gonna help me a lot. Not just with the gay-stuff, I just have to get out of here. Time to get a little more grown-up



And yes, this is a great board. It's so good to know, I'm not alone.



Love and hugs to everyone, too!



Angie



P.S. I'm gonna make my email public for more talking if anyone's interested.

[Penrose Orleans]

I know how you feel, Angie!!! (shipping out to college this fall ) All I can say is that I'm sure you'll be great, and that I wish you luck!

So this mushroom walks into a bar, and the bartender says "We don't serve your kind here"
So the mushroom says, "Why not? I'm a fungi!"

[slayer747]

first, hi!



anyway, about your questions, i am sure that what you're feeling/s is/are completely normal. i used to have those questions myself and the solution that worked best for me was to just "go with the flow", i just follow my heart in every decision, in that way there's no chance you could go wrong. this (sort of) answer of mine might not make any sense right now but i am very sure that someday, they will.



and about the "telling" part, keep in mind that you are not obliged to say anything as long as you are not sure. as for myself, i am sure about the issue already but i don't tell most people, not because i am ashamed of it, but because as soon as they find out, people start treating you differently. i want them to see me as me, and like me as me... then when/if they found out i am gay, then they realize how wrong their perceptions were on gay people... i hope youcould see my point. just be completely honest with everyone... that's the trick.

"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[kukalaka]

Hi slayer



Actually, "going with the flow" makes a lot of sense, I just can't wait to do so!





[babble-mode] But hey, I'm patient. I don't need to find someone right now. A year or two from now, would just be fine. See, this is me being patient [/babble-mode]





Seriously, right now, there just isn't a lot of flow to go with in my life. Which is why I'm going to move, get some changes. Then I'll probably be fine



And I know I'm not obliged to say anything. I just need people to talk to. But the two I already told will probably be enough for that. As for the others, I won't pretend I'm straight and if they figure it out on their own, great, I don't have to tell them.



Okay enough of the ramble, thx again and good luck to you, too, Penrose.

[friskylez]

"FIRST COLORADO, NOW ARIZONA, AND THEN OTHERS! POSSIBLY NEXT ARE CALIFORNIA AND FLORIDA, BOTH SO LIKE THE ANCIENT CITIES OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH , THE DWELLING PLACE OF HOMOSEXUALS, LESBIANS, PEDOPHILES, ADULTERERS, FORNICATORS, AND PERVERTS! "



Just saw this posted on a board in regard to the wildfires in AZ and CO...Isnt it wonderful the sympathy and concern people express during times of trouble I wondered why those fires got started, it would appear

its cause god's trying to burn the sinners up, sheesh

carpe' noctem

Edited by: friskylez  at: 6/25/02 9:38:26 am

[relativegirl]

Hi vix84.



In preparation for your trip you might also check out Women's Traveller . It's a helpful guide for the US, Canada and Europe and covers a broad range of lesbian oriented places to go, not just the club scene. I know a lot of women who take it with them on every trip they take (even if it's just to a neighbouring city) and always seem to find someplace wonderful they never would've stumbled onto without it. I've never been to the UK, so I can't compare what it says about places there with what they're really like, maybe some of the UK kittens have an informed opinion about the UK sections of the book.



Have a wonderful trip! I'm jealous.

Edited by: relativegirl at: 6/25/02 9:47:13 am

[mscheckmate]

Quote:

---

"FIRST COLORADO, NOW ARIZONA, AND THEN OTHERS! POSSIBLY NEXT ARE CALIFORNIA AND FLORIDA, BOTH SO LIKE THE ANCIENT CITIES OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH , THE DWELLING PLACE OF HOMOSEXUALS, LESBIANS, PEDOPHILES, ADULTERERS, FORNICATORS, AND PERVERTS! "

---

Focus on the Family, which is strongly anti-gay, is located in Colorado. So is the US Air Force Academy, which is hardly a friendly place for homosexuals. Arizona is considered a relatively conservative state, rather than a strongly gay-supportive one. If this poster is saying that God saw fit to rain fire on Colorado and Arizona because those states are gay-friendly, he doesn't have his facts in order. If he is saying that the fires in conservative Colorado and Arizona just sort of happened, but that God has special plans to turn California and Florida into raging infernos because they have large gay populations, how does he explain that contradiction?



Homophobes can be incredibly illogical, as well as ignorant. And I'm sure homophobes everywhere are applauding Joss' decision to kill Tara.

Xander: "Tara, nice axing." Tara: "My first."

Edited by: mscheckmate at: 6/25/02 1:49:43 pm

[friskylez]

MsCheckmate, I agree with you, i live in AZ and it is as you say conservative..

For this poster to say that its raining fire and brimstone here and elsewhere because of "all the gays/lesbians" etc, does indeed show his/her ignorance...

It just proves the point that what Joss did eggs this person on, whether the

poster watches BtVS or not, it feeds the myth that we are all "sinners and

will be punished"...What people dont understand they cant relate to and what

they cant relate to they dont tolerate..What a world...

carpe' noctem

Edited by: friskylez  at: 6/25/02 6:36:24 pm

[Epicurus]

Oh no not The Fornicators!

lol that sounds like a name of a band.



It is the way in which these posters post that shows that they are just posting to get a raise out of people. Any excuse folks. That's all they need, any excuse.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance
and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King, Jr.

[relativegirl]

One of the biggest fires in Colorado was started, apparently accidentily, by a US Forest Service employee (irony is kinda ironic), who was burning a letter from her estranged husband. When I saw that on the news, I certainly didn't give that woman's sexuality a second thought. But reading crap like that post makes me ever so thankful the woman wasn't burning letters from her estranged female partner. Can you imagine the spin these homophobic bigots would put on that?



I wonder if there has ever been an unfortunate event in history that wasn't interpreted by someone as God's punishment against us. This is the real life world which we have to live in and which Joss is so estranged from that he can pop off with comments like "being gay is so passe" and not understand why we take offense.

[Penrose Orleans]

As friskylez said (and also as an AZ native) this state is INCREDIBLY conservative-- many of the people I've met have rarely met a Democrat, much less a lesbian. Maybe the author's referring to one of our mayors and one of our senators, both of whom are openly gay (a wonder in this state!)

So this mushroom walks into a bar, and the bartender says "We don't serve your kind here"
So the mushroom says, "Why not? I'm a fungi!"

[friskylez]

All i can say is AMEN RelativeGirl...Exactly what i was thinking..It only makes it worse that he sees killing Tara as a statement that you cant treat the lesbians any differently, "shes just one of the gang"..Talk about the irony of it..

carpe' noctem

[slayer747]

Quote:

---

I wonder if there has ever been an unfortunate event in history that wasn't interpreted by someone as God's punishment against us. This is the real life world which we have to live in and which Joss is so estranged from that he can pop off with comments like "being gay is so passe" and not understand why we take offense.

---

well, i don't know... i don't think we can expect joss to turn the tables... God, even the Pope himself blames us for "ruining" the foundations of the family or something. Damn Bigots! that's what they are...

"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[friskylez]

Coming out is a very personal choice...Its ok to want to be brave like Tara and take that leap, but do it because its what YOU want, not because you think you should do....What really counts is that you know who you are and have self acceptance.....The rest will follow...

"Love someone not because of who they are, but because of who you are when you are with them."

Edited by: friskylez  at: 7/4/02 7:16:54 pm

[relativegirl]

I was wondering if anyone has ever had any regrets over not coming out to a close relative before that person died and it was too late. If so, did it affect your subsequent decisions about coming out to other people? Thoughts anyone?

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[urnofosiris]

Interesting Relativegirl. I never told my father about me, and he died 9 years ago, long before I told the rest of my family and friends about me, which is just under a year ago now. When he was alive I wondered (and I still do) what his reaction would have been. In retrospect, given the fact that everyone in my family, in fact everyone at all, has accepted me, I believe he would have too (I can compare him to my eldest brother as their characters are similar in many ways).



This is obviously is still on my mind. Do I regret not telling?

Part of me does. Certainly my life would have been very different as I probably would not have waited 8 more years before getting of my arse and doing something about myself. I do regret not having the answer to the how he would have reacted. I regret not having the chance to test my resolve and tell him or have him know about me at least. I regret not ever having the chance to talk about this with him if he had been willing to do so. I regret a great many things when it comes to my father.

For his sake it probably was best I never told. If he had not accepted me, I'm sure he would *not* have stopped loving me and that would have hurt him so much, and if he *had* accepted it, it *still* would have hurt him.

---------------------------



"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

Edited by: DrG at: 3/21/03 3:53:06 pm

[slayer747]

yup...should definitely be your choice.



as for choices, heads up, kittens! i've made my choice:



last friday i was in the library with a very, very good friend of mine... and i asked her:



"is there anything that i could say that would totally shock you?"



she said, "nope....(three seconds)...oh yeah... tiff, you're gay!"



but then she laughed (it was a joke) then i laughed with her, but then i said, in a very serious tone...



"but...what if i am?" *brows furrowing*



she smiled warmly at me and said, "it doesn't matter."



and there, ladies and gentlemen, my heart lept... and i can't explain it. my friend gets it. she knows i am gay, and is fine with it. as for my best friend, she kinda has issues, but we'll get there...someday

"Sometimes things happen between people that you don't really expect. And sometimes the things that are important are the ones that seem the weirdest or the most wrong, and those are the ones that change your life." - Jessie "Once and Again"

[urnofosiris]

Ah that is a nice story Slayer747.

I wonder though if there ever will be a time when the fact that someone might be gay would be just as much of a given and as less of a surprise as the fact that someone is straight. I really believe that aside from *not* being encouraged to be a homophobe everyone, while growing up or while grown up, should also be made actively aware that being gay, bi, trans or anything else that might be a 'shock' is perfectly acceptable and expectable.



*editied to remove some icky grammatical errors, please pretend they have been corrected in the below quoting of this post as well.

---------------------------



"I am giving you what you need, not what you want"
-The perfect excuse to be an asshole

Edited by: DrG at: 7/10/02 2:23:30 am

[kukalaka]

Anyone remembering my "confusion" post?



Well, I read a fan fic at extra flamey yesterday. It had Buffy develop a definite liking for a girl. She had a talk with Tara about this:

Quote:

---

...

"I've been wanting to talk about it with Willow, but every time I went to bring it up I just froze. I feel horrible for saying this…"



"But you don't want to have everyone thinking you're gay if you decide that you're not." Tara finished the sentence for her.



"Common fear is it?"

...

---

Yup, apparently it is. And I swear, I was grinning like a madman when reading this



Big thank you to the author (I'm not sure, but I think I've seen the name on the board) for that beautiful story.

[Ittybittykitty]

Does anyone have a good suggestion on how to come out to an uncle or aunt? Please? Thanks!

Meri-SCREW THE SYSTEM!
Me-I will not, who knows where it's been?!